ELECTRICAL, Adaptin' a MoPar elec ign to the Flatty

[rat bastad]

Ok cats heres the scene.....Installment #1

Subject: Adaptin a MoPar electronic ignition system to a Flathead
Donor: Psychobilly Boi's A bone roadster with 8BA
Surgeons: Rat Bastad, Psychobilly Boi and basic hand tools.
Transplant: Modded small block dissy, Mopar Performance Orange Box, 0.5
Ohm Ballast resistor, hot Bosch GT40R coil, custom wiring and a
4 hrs.

Ok...so we got the modded small block dissy and set it with the springs/plate combo to give ua advance rate starting in at 1000 rpm and all in by 1800 rpm.
This is because the motor is a lo comp basically stock eng, this should give us a bit more cyl pressure down low and more zing....

Its a mech advance setup (I know I know, u guys like vac advance, but were bolting up a set of duals next week). Theres 18 degrees of mech advance in the dissy so setting it at 6 deg intial will give more pep and a total advance of 24 deg. We can experiment from there later.

Ok so having machined the dissy to suit the ID of the timing cover, and lengthened the dissy shaft to suit the same cover we were set to go. Pulled the timing cover and were pleasantly surprised that we had a alloy timing gear. Someones obviously been into the mill before....good start.

Then I drilled and tapped for a grub/lock screw to lock the dissy in place to set timing. You can easily get to the set screw even with the gennie and fan in place!! Then I replaced the timing cover and sealed it up.

See pix....

Rat

[rat bastad]

Ok so heres the timing cover off, the modes to it and what we found....

Rat

[rat bastad]

Oops screwed up heres some pix...

Rat

[rat bastad]

Ok heres some more of the wired in components and Psycho having a Psycho attack !! Too many fumes....

The wiring in was pretty simple and tried to make it as sano and traceable as possible. Well need to relocate the coil once we remove the old one; couldnt do it with the fuel solenoid in the way and a full tank of fuel.

The Mopar box has increased dwell for a hotter spark. Been playin with this MoApr shit for years....one word? BULLETPROOF. You need to make sure that the ign box is grounded really well with decent , clean metal AND good bolts for a good ground. Only 4 of the five wires from the 5 pin MoPar plug are used for this install.

Also I used a 0.5 Ohm ballast resisitor instead of a 0.25 Ohm one. Dunnomif itll make any difference....

Wired it all in, buttoned it all up, USED SOLID CORE WIRES....and.........

Rat

[rat bastad]

With fingers crossed hit the ign switch. Bada Bing Bada Boom.....fired up on the first crank without even touching the gas OR setting timing.

Gotta love that. Ill let Psycho report on the differences it made as he knows his ride better than I do BUT, the idle was heaps smoother, throttle repsonse better AND, it cleaned the shit off the plugs as I did a before and after check.

It also brought the idle up....maybe from more complete combustion ...maybe?

No more points or condensors to shit themselves and LOOKS STOCK.

I think a worthwhile 4 hrs ...all up cost? About 350 clams AUD including coil, cap, dissy mods, and dissy, and wiring. Not bad.

Rat out

[Psychobilly Boi]

Hey Crew,

Kind of appropriate that on my 1,000th post, it will be to thank another HAMBer for his help on my ride. Seems like 99% of my posts are thanking people for thier selfless help and advice, what a place huh?

The Mopar dizzy conversion was chosed upon becuase it was cheaper then any other option I could find! :D Rat has a long history with Mopars and assured me that this conversion would be bullet proof and at ~ $300 ish AUD for the entire setup you cant beat it. That money included the dizzy housing machining, recurve and advance adjustment, new shaft, new dizzy cap, reconditioning of worn parts, the Mopar Performance Orange box, new coil etc. You could do it for alot less if you have access to your own lathe and use some junk yard parts.

The other consideration was looks - with the Mopar you get a nostalgic looking electronic set up (compare the dizzy to the chev HEI or MSD for looks) with replacement parts you can find at any parts store. Killer.

In these first pics you can see the machined dizzy. I have pointed out where the modifications have been made. What you cant see, is the modifications to the advance plate - Rat has explained the changes in his post above.

Danny

[flatoz]

FINALLY!!


man thank god!

great to hear.

so does it go any better???

details, details.

[Psychobilly Boi]

More pics...

In the first one, you can see me battling melbourne traffic on the way to rats. Late models everywhere...

Side note, about 5 minutes before this shot was taken I was subjected to one of Victoria's new random drug tests. Both sides of this street was blocked of and everyone was subjected to first a breathaliser test for drink driving then a drug test. Needless to say I was fine (this was 11am in the morning - they do it to catch kids driving home from raves and clubs in the city). The officer testing me made a joke about lucky they wernt doing road worthy inspections that day, and I pretended to not know what he was refering to.. (fenders, my Speed Tube specialty carb stack etc). When he asked if I had any drugs within the last 24 hours I asked if flathead blowby and danger counted. He laughed - proves that cops do have a sense of humour...

Anyway back to the conversion, the second pic is me undoiing on of the bolts that cold the front spring on. Fan belt was catching in the bold head and I couldnt get the fan off.

In the third pic we have the fan and gennie assembly off and the dizzy out. You'll notice nuber one spark plug is out - we did the old thumb over the whole to make sure we took out the dizzy when it was pointed at No 1 TDC. Make a not of the direction of the rotor and make sure the new dizzy lines up the same way when you put back in...

In the fourth pic we're really into it now. You can see the inside of the timing cover. One thing to note is, this particular timing cover has the provision for the longer dizzy shaft, which extends past the drive gear and locates in a hole in the bottom of the second rib. Some timing covers do not have this and the dizzy shaft is only supported with one rib - in this case you need to make sure the shaft is shorter and finishes at the bottom of the gear drive.

Easiest thing to do is just take your old dizzy out and take to the machine shop... makes it easier for the machinest to visualise the changes and check for sizes/clearances etc. Take the timing cover too if you can...

Danny

[Psychobilly Boi]

Ok,

Here is the real reason we're doing the conversion... these hot ass little puppies. Dual 94's on a Sharp super manifold. I bought this manifold what seems like a year ago from FlatOz. Killer price and the nicest guy. Thats his sano linkages on the carbs too. This man is one of hot roddings unsung hero's in my opinion and along with Rat has helped me more on my ride then one man deserves. FlatOz will be going to automotive nirvana with all the hot rod karma he has been collecting.

Seems like whilst it can work the stock dizzy is a piece of shit, and its a piece of shit covered in poo sprinkles when attached to dual carbs. I didnt want to fight the dizzy when I get these duals on so Rat and I put the mopar conversion in first so we wont have to worry.

So whats the difference in performance...

Stunning... it seems like the rev range has doubled, I can floor it and hold it in gear until the carb gives up. Acceleration in better, it now idles like a sewing machine and general overall performance has increased. Its even killed the snap and pop on downshifts *is that a good thing?*. It blew smoke for a while but I think it was just burning off all the shit on the spark plugs. It starts even better and there seems to be no issues with running this setup with solid core wires and a gennie. So, if you want a cheep performance upgrade that makes real a world difference, looks traditional (well from the outside) and is easy to do, then go the Mopar Dizzy Conversion. Some of the best money spent on my ride and def great smiles per dollar spent.

Oh yeah, that last pic is the drive home after a pleasant afternoon hanging with Rat (thanks again for all your help brother). Tell you what, the drive home was quicker then the one there...

Danny

[Darby]

Did you start with the whole Mopar conversion kit and mod from there, or is this junkyard parts + the box?

Either way, great tech. I've only done the conversion on Mopar small blocks, but have been happy with them. I keep a spare ballast in the glovebox just in case, but haven't needed it yet.

[rat bastad]

Darby....we started with a junk dist a second hand MP Orange box, which is more than sufficient for a Flatty.

There really no nned to lash out on an MP conversion kit...too bloody pricey IMHO.

Rat

[flatoz]

I take it you got hold of a grub screw and the drilling and tapping went ok, I reckon that is the easiest way to go,

great tech mate, looks the ducks guts.

[rat bastad]

Great tech mate, looks the ducks guts.[/QUOTE]

Yeah Flatoz, the Rats Ass......

Hey u got somethin for moi ?

Rat

[PEDDRO]

I'm kinda disappointed we didn't get to see Dan workin' in his faux-leopard print gloves! Where's the GAMB-HONOUR???!!!!!

Nice work fellas.

[av8jon]

Hey Frank and Danny, Great tech. I've been looking forward to hearing of the great results! I've got the Mallory dual point on mine but could still use a little more fire! That's really good plannin to get it done before you put the duals on. With that much fuel, you need all the fire you can muster with a stock flatty. This Tech will be helping a number of folks that are running the stock dizzy. Only two things I'd like to see added. One is a bigger hammer for Danny making that carb adjustment and also a wiring diagram showing what wires go where. That wiring diagram might save somebody cooking the box. Man, I'll bet Danny hasn't been this stoked for a while. I know I would be with that much improvement. I'm also glad to hear that you could get by with those new old plug wires too. Now, just think what some heads and that Potvin would Do!;)

Thanks for the great post!!

[rat bastad]

Hey Jon....the wiring diagrams on its way too, we gotta scan it and get in on here. Pretty basic stuff and works like a charm !!

Rat

[av8jon]

Hey Jon....the wiring diagrams on its way too, we gotta scan it and get in on here. Pretty basic stuff and works like a charm !!

Rat

Thanks again!

[Psychobilly Boi]

I'm kinda disappointed we didn't get to see Dan workin' in his faux-leopard print gloves! Where's the GAMB-HONOUR???!!!!!

Nice work fellas.

Please! I had some errr lady company that night so the gloves are hers :D Everyone knows latex is the glove of choice for me.

Danny

[Drewfus]

Well done.

GAMBeriffic almost........;)

Cheers,

Drewfus:D

[Mai Ki-Ki]

Sweet work you guys...looking forward to seeing it in action next saturday at Lowsquire's BBQ!

=]

Cheers

Maiki

p.s Where's the 'Kardinals' plaque u dorks!

[rat bastad]

Hey man watch out, Psychos gonna take on all comers !! Anyone wants to race for pinks !!

Rat

[Mai Ki-Ki]

Hey man watch out, Psychos gonna take on all comers !! Anyone wants to race for pinks !!

Rat

Anyone want to race for licences?

=\

mkk

[Flat Ernie]

HIJACK ALERT! :D

Anyone seen the 2-bolt dizzy converted to MOPAR electronic guts? Any idea what's involved here? I saw one posted somewhere - here, Fordbarn, or MSN Groups, but not much step-by-step with it. More of a "here it is" type of post.

Anymore info?

(can't find the pic of it now...)

[PEDDRO]

Anyone want to race for licences?

=\

mkk

Would that be a walking race?

[Psychobilly Boi]

HIJACK ALERT! :D

Anyone seen the 2-bolt dizzy converted to MOPAR electronic guts? Any idea what's involved here? I saw one posted somewhere - here, Fordbarn, or MSN Groups, but not much step-by-step with it. More of a "here it is" type of post.

Anymore info?

(can't find the pic of it now...)

Hey Man,

is the two bolt the crab style one? If so I remember the article as well... let me track it down...

Danny

[62fairlane]

hey your digi camera is busted...everything is backwards in your pics.....steering wheel on the right side? man that is messed up looking :D

[flatoz]

hey your digi camera is busted...everything is backwards in your pics.....steering wheel on the right side? man that is messed up looking :D


well will you look at that, not even two pages before this pearla came out, hell havent heard that one before, splitting my sides laughing...

[oil*can*harry]

There's a couple of them things on ebay right now.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4565151412&sspagename=ADME%3AX%3AON%3ACA%3A2

[oil*can*harry]

Originally Posted by 62fairlane
hey your digi camera is busted...everything is backwards in your pics.....steering wheel on the right side? man that is messed up looking

Ho ho ho, did you just make that up?
Must of taken a lot of work to convert that distributor from the "wrong side" over to the "right side".

Originality is not one of his virtues

[Psychobilly Boi]

Hey Kids,

Now now play nice, endless wrong side of the road jokes is our penance for living in the best country in the world. :D

Danny

[Psychobilly Boi]

Hey Frank and Danny, Great tech. I've been looking forward to hearing of the great results! I've got the Mallory dual point on mine but could still use a little more fire! That's really good plannin to get it done before you put the duals on. With that much fuel, you need all the fire you can muster with a stock flatty. This Tech will be helping a number of folks that are running the stock dizzy. Only two things I'd like to see added. One is a bigger hammer for Danny making that carb adjustment and also a wiring diagram showing what wires go where. That wiring diagram might save somebody cooking the box. Man, I'll bet Danny hasn't been this stoked for a while. I know I would be with that much improvement. I'm also glad to hear that you could get by with those new old plug wires too. Now, just think what some heads and that Potvin would Do!;)

Thanks for the great post!!

Hey Jon,

Thanks for the post - I can tell you, I've been looking forward to this for a long time as well! Killer!!!!

Here is a copy of that wiring diagram...

http://www.moparts.com/Tech/Archive/elec/img/ecudia.jpg

Danny

[286merc]

Im glad to see the Mopar conversion finally taking hold. Ive been doing them for years and as you say; BULLETPROOF!!

I just use the whole boneyard setup. Dizzy, module, resistor, coil and as much wiring attached to the connectors that I can get. Even the resistor relay if you want to bypass the resistor in the key Start position and go thru the resistor on Run.

In the US there are several dizzys for the 318/340/360 so watch what you get. You dont want the later smog crappers that use the double pickups nor the lean burn version.

I have the machine work done in a shop so I dont know the full procedure; gave him Aussie Mike Davidsons book and let him alone.

You might want to include some sketches of what is necessary with dimensions. Im sure there will be lots of Mopars missing their dizzys.

[oil*can*harry]

286, I just PM'd you.

[hotrodA]

What was the procedure used to lengthen the shaft? Cut and weld with a sleeve? Or did I miss that?

Good information! Thanks!!

[Unkl Ian]

Excellent info guys.Very well done.

Is that a spare coil,or just testing parts ?
And didn't the Chryslers have a reputation for
Ballast Resistors going bad with no notice ?:confused:

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=108610

[rat bastad]

Guys Ive run these dissys/ignitions on anything from stockers to 9 sec small block MoPars with much success.

Yes, stay away from the ELB and dual pick up versions, thats easy enough to do as the bulk of them were single pickup, pre ELB, at least Down Under.

Ive never had a problem with ballast resisitors, if the box is grounded properly you should be good to go, PERMANENTLY. Ive also never had a box crap out on me either.

Unkl, that silver coil is the original one with the original flatty dissy. Will be removed and will remount the red coil in its place.

Rat

[av8jon]

Danny,

Great job on the wiring diagram!

Thanks!

[Psychobilly Boi]

Hey Mate,

Sorry I really should have explained everything from the start. The machine shop makes up a whole new shaft. The top is machined to accept the mopar pickup and advance plate etc in the housing, and the bottom is machined to accept the gear drive and the new shaft is the overall legnth. Imagine if you got the top half of the mopar shaf and welded it to the bottom half of the flathead, thats what it would look like. You may be able to cut/weld/sleeve but we just asked them to make up a whole new shaft.

It cost stuff all for the shop to machine up a new shaft, turn down the outside of the housing, check and recondition the dizzy pickup etc so we just let the pro's do it. I'm sure you could do it yourself but seeing as I dont have the experience I cant really give you the finer points.

Danny

What was the procedure used to lengthen the shaft? Cut and weld with a sleeve? Or did I miss that?

Good information! Thanks!!

[Psychobilly Boi]

Hi Ian,

The orginal builder mounted one of the coils in a very wierd way which made it hard to remove without removing alot of other parts before it. We were in a hurry to test the install and see how it would go so we just zip tied the replacement coil to the old one. Its not sano but did the job and leaves me to replace the old one when I can.

I've heard the rumours about the old ballast restistors crapping out randomly but I figure I'll just carry a spare! Cant be any worse the SHIT SHIT SHIT stock dizzy with its condensor thats lucky to last 5km or the wierd little wire that sits under the advance plate and will ground out whenever it feels like it. The way we did the wiring and mouted the ballast restistor makes it a 30 second job to replace.

Danny

Excellent info guys.Very well done.

Is that a spare coil,or just testing parts ?
And didn't the Chryslers have a reputation for
Ballast Resistors going bad with no notice ?:confused:

[Psychobilly Boi]

In the US there are several dizzys for the 318/340/360 so watch what you get. You dont want the later smog crappers that use the double pickups nor the lean burn version.

Hey Merc,

I actually (through ignorance) purchased a Autolite dizzy from a 277 or 273? No wonder the guys at the spare parts shop couldnt figure out why a Bosch or Lucas cap wouldnt fit!

Danny

[Unkl Ian]

Here is another page,doing basicly the same thing:
http://home1.gte.net/wgmumaw/Distconv/Distributor%20Conversion.htm

[Psychobilly Boi]

Hey Ian,

Thanks for posting!

Just for those who may not be aware of the difference, adapting the pickup assembly to a later 8BA style distributer will not solve the problem. One of the real issues with the dizzy is its wierd advance mechanism. You really have to replace the whole dizzy to resolve this issue. The earlier front mount dizzy's do not suffer from this problem so mounting the Mopar pickup gives them a real boost.

Danny

[Flat Ernie]

Here is another page,doing basicly the same thing:
http://home1.gte.net/wgmumaw/Distconv/Distributor%20Conversion.htm

That's the one I was thinking of! THANKS! Got it saved now (again?)!:D