The Power of the HAMB put to the test... Unsolved Mystery

[SamIyam]

I'm constantly amazed at how many questions get answered on the HAMB... in addition, I think it is safe to say that all HAMB'ers... thanks to the garage that ryan built... are only one person removed from every hot rodder known to man... and probably no more than two removed from every hot rodder to ever walk the face of the earth... think about it... someone here know's somone who can give a first hand account of practically everything you have ever read or seen in a hot rod magazine... or on the internet...

Sooo, as an exercise... and to put this theory to the test... I think it's high time that we solve a little bit of hot rodding history... and maybe put a feather in our cap in the process...

The Stu Hilborn streamliner...
A recent peice in TRJ got me thinking...
Stu Hilborn's streamliner hasn't been seen since 1954... when it was last seen... it was run as a dragster in the Tulsa Oaklahoma area...

so, this begs the question... do we have HAMB members in and around Tulsa (duh!) and if so... do they know someone who knows someone who remembers seeing the car run... if so, who ran it and what happened to it after that?

We may also get a tad bit closer to the mystery if one of us HAMB'ers know someone who has researched this a bit already... you guys know how you hunt down tin for a project... just think of this as something similar... only a little more challenging... and remember, we're not looking for people who doubt if it can be done... just for people who think they want to try and help put the puzzle back together (i.e. maybe the car got junked??)

Here's a pic of what we are looking for:

[SamIyam]

...and one of the chassis...

[SamIyam]

...and one of the front end (if someone can scan better pics... please do).

Also, who knows, maybe someone has a part of this thing, or has seen a piece that a buddy has... a bracket, an axle... a piece of skin... who knows.
Sam.

[SamIyam]

Thanks to Lowlife, I was able to get this pic off the Stu Hilborn post...
So, now we know that some guy named Scott had a speed shop and he was in Tulsa... anyone know of this place?? Or know someone who knows someone... we need a name of the owner of that shop...
Sam.

[Hot Rod To Hell]

Hey Sam... I heard somewhere that his name was Scott... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[C9]

No answers, but maybe this will help.

[SamIyam]

Thanks Hot Rod TH! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Also, WTF does it say on the hood?

Anyone have an old Tulsa phone book or records that can look up that phone number?
It also looks as though the car got a new front axle as seen in the color photo... hmmm...
Sam.

[C9]

Here's a present day speed shop in Tulsa.
Perhaps a phone call?


Daley's Speed Shop
2304 Charles Page Blvd
Tulsa, OK 74127-8421 Phone: (918) 592-7628

[gettingreasy]

What a noble quest, would be a cool find in barn.
-Jesse

[gettingreasy]

It looks to say "Miss" something, if someone could find it's name it might be easier.
-Jesse

[gettingreasy]

Okay, i'm bored so i enlarged the pic and made her a lil' less blurry, her name is "Miss Cynthia Ann" never know it could help.
-Jesse

[DrJ]

Looks like Miss Cynthia Dee to mee. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[tunglegubbin]

Isn't that every girl's dream?
To have a race car named after her.
Wonder if it got him laid?

[Deyomatic]

Miss Cynthia Dee...
Maybe it was a race horse he bet on. Or, maybe it was the name of his childhood sled. HMMMMMN.

At any rate, I think that speed shop will be getting alot of phone calls tomorrow morning.

[gettingreasy]

It's Ann you prople are blind.
-Jesse

[SlowLearner]

Okay, well.... suppose Cynthia Ann was in her late teens, early twenties in the early fifties. (She'd be due to retire any day now, If she hasn't already.)
And suppose our boy, John Doe "Scott" married his gal! So then, we could look for..."Cynthia Ann SCOTT"!
Cuz of the Google machine, it turns out there's a Dental Hygienist in Sand Springs, just outside of Tulsa named C. A. S. Is it "Miss C.A." herself? A daughter of the two?
quote:
NAME: Scott, Cynthia Ann
ADDRESS: 407 W. 35th Pl.
CITY: Sand Springs ST: OK ZIP: 74063
Coronal Polishing Cert#: 1782 X-Ray Cert#: 2085
Nitrous Oxide Cert#: 179 Sealant Cert#:

I'm going to leave it for anyone else who wants to take it to the next step.

[Brootal]

Sorry I can't help more, but you can't get much further away from Kansas than Australia!!! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Anyway, I scanned the pics at great personal peril to my issue of TRJ #24. Apologies to Steve and the crew at TRJ.

Here's the shot of the chassis again...

http://www.the-rumbler.com/pics/hilborn1.jpg

A great shot of the profile. Sure was a trick machine. Check out the louvres. Looks like they start narrow then get wider towards the back. I'll have to check that later photo of it...

http://www.the-rumbler.com/pics/hilborn2.jpg

That's Mr H. hisself on the left. Lookin' very "Jerry Lee" http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

http://www.the-rumbler.com/pics/hilborn3.jpg

Here's a shot from dead on in front. Didn't quite get the scan right, but I wasn't prepared to bend my TRJ any more. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

http://www.the-rumbler.com/pics/hilborn4.jpg

...and finally a shot from the rear. She sure was a skinny little runt. I know a few HAMBers that won't be fitting in that sucker if they ever find it! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

http://www.the-rumbler.com/pics/hilborn5.jpg

[porknbeaner]

Hell,
I don't know I'm still lookin' for my old Vic.
Haven't seen it since '71. How 'bout it N Westerners. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Last known whereabouts North Plains, OR. Wearin' a set of Speed Wheel Indys. And two tone tan 'n' cream.
Oh, sorry to steel the post. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Harrison]

I got a phone # for Cynthia Ann Scott. I'll call here in a few minutes....

While we are waiting, does anyone have a copy of the 1948 Hot Rod Magazine with Hilborn's streamliner on the cover? Don't know if there was a feature inside but it was supposedly on the cover. Got it? Scan it.

JH

[Lowlife]

My pic above from the other Hilborn thread is from Genat's & Cox's new book The Birth Of Hot Rodding. Below is the caption that goes with it. If someone has a roster of that event or article, might give a owner's name or even a participant name one of us might recognize. Clearer pic in the book, definitely "Miss Cynthia Ann" and the ph.# is 8-3098.
Anybody have a Popular Mechanics Hot Rod Handbook and Directory Of America's Finest Speed Shops, might be a lead there?

[Lowlife]

One more from the Genat/Cox book, tight squeeze indeed!

[4t64rd]

Are those wheel covers an off the shelf item? Those are cool.

[Donzie]

[ QUOTE ]

And suppose our boy, John Doe "Scott" married his gal! So then, we could look for..."Cynthia Ann SCOTT"!


[/ QUOTE ]
Couldn't the guy's first name be Scott? Ya know like, Bob's Speed Shop?

[mr.midnite]

referring to the photo with the lid open and a 4 carb setup in the car as well as the injector setup on top of the hood, a man named Doc owns the carb setup and runs it on his personal ride, a flathead powered T. He purchased it off the wall from Scott's Speed way back when. It is a Miller setup that was used on Ford's Indy endeavor back in the thirties. According to Doc the car was parted out and the rest crushed in Cherryville Kansas a long long time ago. All the big money guys as well as Ford have been after him to sell this setup which he has no intention of doing.
Sorry, the photo I referred to is in the other Hilborn post.
Robert

[Paul]

Sam your scan reads that the streamliner was originally owned by Bill Worth.
Who built it, where was it built and when?

Maybe by going backwards other clues would surface.

Is there more info on the Chevy 4 with the Olds head?
Was that a common combo?

Paul

[Harrison]

The # I found for Cynthia Ann Scott was no longer in service.

Maybe I'll call Daley's Speed Shop.

JH

[CruZer]

60's style, according to Don Montgomery's books and other sources,the Olds head (4 port) on the Chevy 4 was pretty popular back in the 30-40's.

Sam,this is a neat post.Thanks for asking the questions.I love mysteries.Wish I could help with the answers.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

The part I find most interesting is that through all the years and changes is that the same front tires remain on the car.

[voneyeball]

DING! that's right, mr midnite.

i remember that setup! two different kinds of carbs, 3 of 1 ane 1 of the other. runs off the 1 until it's kicked in the head? that right?

docs car is tasty indeed. where is he from? oklahoma i think? dark green with enough cool stuff to give a hamber wood...fiberglass body though, don't get it...

he is usually here in springfield for the world of wheels show which should be coming up, if noone knows how to get in touch with him...

[Two-Gun Bob]

60's Style, the Oldsmobile head bolts directly onto the Chevy block; the advantage is that the Olds head had three exhaust ports versus the one port (1926 and earlier) or two ports (1927 and 1928) on the Chevy head. There are a couple of guys making adaptor plates to mount the Chevy or Olds head on Ford Model T or A blocks as a relatively cheap OHV conversion. I hope to eventually do that for a Model T speedster which is one of my long-term projects...

[SamIyam]

So if the car got parted out... who bought the parts??

We need to get some of you Oklahomans on this case.... where's Roothawg!?
Sam.

[Harrison]

Do we really know it was parted out? I imagine Doc knows what he is talking about but where did he get his information? I'd like to hear from Doc.

JH

[mr.midnite]

voneyeball,
you are speaking of the same Doc and he is indeed from Oklahoma. He does make the rounds with his car.

Sam,
a man by the name of Bob H., a friend of Doc's that helped him to set up his chassis on his T stated that the rearend went to a local circle track racer and the frontend went to another local that owned a go-cart track. Bob also stated that he was actually there when the body was cut up and thrown away, his words were "it was a piece of shit by then". One last note, Scotts Speed and the building that housed it is long gone thanks to urban development.
Robert

[Harrison]

Damn...

Looks like my clone is on though.

JH

[mr.midnite]

Harrison,
there is a clone that is close to completion being built by Jim Latton(sp) in Encinitas, CA.. I could be wrong but I think it is to be unvieled at the Peterson Museum in the next month or so.

I also spoke with Doc and his thoughts were Bob may or may not have been there but the car was definitely disposed of by a crusher in Cherryvile Kansas
Robert

[SamIyam]

Sounds like the mystery is solved...

Can the guy who owned the go Kart track and the guy who got the rear end be contacted??

Wonder if those parts are sitting out in a field somewhere... maybe the front end still has those wheels (AND TIRES) mounted on it, eh Jim? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


So now, I think TRJ needs to be contacted... what do you guys think? What's the next step?

Sam.

[Roothawg]

Sorry guys, I am here but, I was lurking since I had nothing to really offer.

[mr.midnite]

Sam,
in speaking with Doc and Joel and Bob, the owners and their parts are long gone. I would take their account as factual as these are men that have been around for a bit. Joel is still driving his nailhead powered deuce that he built back in '55 or so.

[voneyeball]

sucks if it's true.

but, you can see the induction on doc's car! anybody got a pic of it? i don't think i ever took one. was always too busy looking at the "parts"

the power of the hamb INDEED! cool stuff, lets do it again...

[mr.midnite]

for Sam, the Leonard Nimoy of the HAMB

[Harrison]

Sounds like the car is dead. I'd love to see pics of the clone. I still want to do one, but maybe since someone else has already done it, I could take a few liberties and make it my own. A "Hilborn Inspired" streamliner.

This car made TRJ's 10 most wanted a while back. They would probably like to see this thread and maybe even follow up with the guys who witnessed its disection/demise.

Mr. Midnite where you been? I'm glad to see you back on the HAMB. Thanks for all the info. How could I get a hard copy of that cutaway drawing?

JH

[RPW]

I know that there is a big buck award to anyone that finds it or can help with information that can lead to Bruce Meyer to a purchase of it. No kidding, the award is set up by Bruce Meyer and have been advertised in Classic and Sportscar.

[LIMEY]

What a quality post...Sam!
I know the results weren't as good as we may have hoped, but i thought i'd add these pics anyway as i think they are fairly rare these days.

[LIMEY]

another...

[Jive-Bomber]

What blows me a way, was reading how Stu had a wire wheel blow apart, he wrecks and totals the thing, and his buddy Miller Jr. puts the car back to perfect as a gift to Stu! Pretty cool stuff, eh?

[Mart]

Anyone notice the front axle has changed from a '37 tube to an I-Beam in the head on shot at the lakes?
Mart.

[Jim Marlett]

Doc's (Hilborn's) four carb set-up has three one-barrels and one two-barrel. There is no mixing of flow between the carburetors. All carburetors open at the same time - there is no progressive linkage. Each of the one-barrels feeds two adjacent intake ports through an upside down Y and the one two-barrel feeds the front right intake ports (#s 1 & 2) with each barrel feeding its own port. The reason for this is with the firing order being 1-5-4-8-6-3-7-2, each pair of adjacent intakes draws 180º from its neighbor except 1 & 2. Three pairs have equally spaced pulses, so a single one-barrel can feed them perfectly well. Since 1 & 2 would rob each other, they each have their own barrel on the two-barrel carburetor. I don't know how well you can see this in the photos, but they are photos of Doc's T.

[Jim Marlett]

He's the other side.

[hemi]

FWIW, here is a painting that Zombie did....I really like it:

http://cms.zombiehotrodwear.com/userdir/oilpainting1.jpg

[gman]

I got a 1948 Tulsa phone book, in answer to one of the questions earlier in the post. What names, numbers you want looked up?

[Farmer]

Hey Sam, great post idea! I've enjoyed this read, we gotta do this some more..

[Flatdog]

From a guy thats likes flatheads and history this is a great post.Thanks to all involved.I think even Perry Mason would be impressed by your researce work.

[SamIyam]

I think it is safe to say that this exercise was a success!

If the people who WERE look for the SHSL don't believe the first hand accounts that say the car was destroyed... let THEM keep on looking for it in frustration. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Next up?

Maybe we can find one of those other cars that was on TRJ's list...
Sam.

[Farmer]

I've contacted Any Southard Jr. about the whereabouts of his
roadster p/u on the cover of his Hot rods of the 50's book.
I saw the book in Barnes and Noble a couple years ago, bought it and really fell in love with that truck. If I recall, correctly, Andy was not sure of the current state or location of that truck. Andy lives in Salinas, Ca. Anyone
know what truck I'm talkin' about. Maybe not worthy of a Hamb Mystery Search, but cool nonetheless.
John

[Hot Rod Ron]

Come on Mr Midnight how do we get a copy of that cutaway drawing of the car. GOT TO HAVE ONE. great shop art if anything else.

[Terry Buffum]

I grew up in Tulsa, and bought parts from Jimmy Scott's Speed Shop (located in his garage, near the Tulsa Airport) while building a Buick powered '34 sedan in 1954. Cyanthia Ann is his daughter, she would be about 60 years old now. Jimmy supposedly moved to Phoenix area around 1970, died a few years later. My brother still lives in Tulsa and was talking with some of the guys I knew there in the early 50s - one claimed the Hilborn car is "buried" in the area - from this thread it looks as if that might be literal! I had hoped enough might still remain for a restoration. I'll send Brad after the go kart track guy - he knows him.

[Atwater Mike]

I grew up in Tulsa, and bought parts from Jimmy Scott's Speed Shop (located in his garage, near the Tulsa Airport) while building a Buick powered '34 sedan in 1954. Cyanthia Ann is his daughter, she would be about 60 years old now. Jimmy supposedly moved to Phoenix area around 1970, died a few years later. My brother still lives in Tulsa and was talking with some of the guys I knew there in the early 50s - one claimed the Hilborn car is "buried" in the area - from this thread it looks as if that might be literal! I had hoped enough might still remain for a restoration. I'll send Brad after the go kart track guy - he knows him.

Didn't I see a restoration/cloning of the Stu Hilborn streamliner in a magazine article in the last 5 years??? Can't remember who the Kingpin was, but there were 3 well-knowns invplved in its 'unveiling'.
Anybody know?