RANT- Fear the words: Made in China!

[MercMan1951]

First off, I am a big believer in you get what you pay for. I often spend the big money on tools I know I'll use a lot, and buy cheapies for the ones I won't. I expect what I get, and if a knock-off tool isn't up to snuff, and I knew that before-hand, then I deal with it. And make it work. Sometimes, I can't find what I want. so I deal with what I can have.

I decided to bite the bullet and buy a small sheet metal brake today for the many pieces of body that I need to replace on the Mercury. I was getting tired of bending the sheet steel over a couple of pieces of angle iron clamped in my vice, and beating the shit out of it with a hammer. I needed a nice, 24 inch sheet metal bender I could clamp into the vice, and make nice 90 degree bends. Simple to find right? Right.

I have seen and heard about the notorius Harbor Freight sheet metal brake, but by the time I paid for the shipping, and the HASSLE I had with them retuning their plasma cutter that would't cut shit, I decided to buy a small brake from a local place called Production Tool Supply. They are close to home, and carry a wide variety of hard to find tools, mostly industrial stuff. They come in handy sometimes.

Anyway, the smallest, most affordable brake they have, is a 24" one, $140.00. Made in China. The next step up was a $999.00 4 ft. floor model. Yeah, right.

So, I buy it (the small one). The guy says to me "you know..." in that "you get what you pay for" voice, ..."this brake is only for..." yeah, I know.

I expect it, I'm not doing production work. I explain to him what I need it for and he goes into a story about some '63 Vette he planned to restore but never finished it and sold it...yeah, yeah, whatever. Give me my crappy brake...

I figure it's about the same as the one Harbor frieght has, and after shipping, would cost about the same. The only difference is that I could take it with me and play tonight. Right.

I have begun to fear the words "Made In China". I suspect this is what people went through back in the 50's when America started seeing "Made in Japan" stamped on a lot of things. "Made in Japan" became synonymous with "crap". As time went on, Japan got their act together, and began producing quality stuff. Look at their cars...they began stealing our "car of the year" awards...I'm not looking for a debate here, but I will suffice to say, they got better...

Anyway, this damn brake had a "Made in China" sticker proudly displayed on the front of it ...Oh boy, here we go again...shoddy workmanship, crappy welds, parts that don't fit right...I knew I would have to do some tweaking on this brake but I didn't realize how much. It looked shiny enough.

I start assembling it, and the first thing I realize is that the right side boss where the clamp screws into is welded about 1/2 to far backward, causing the clamping surface to be skewed about 1/4 inch out of whack. In other words, if I bent something, it would have an angle bend that varied every time. Nice. Solution? Grind off offending boss and reweld it on. Good thing I have that capability.

After I did this, it worked fairly well. But wait, what's that? There's vertical cracks in the bolt that secures the clamping mechanism on the left side. Let's look at the other side: oh, gee, there's one there too! Both have hairline cracks running through the threads. Nice. Let me tighten all this shit down and see if it will bend something:

Grab wrenches to tighten all bolts snug. The nut on the left clamping mechanism is secured with a 16mm bolt. I'll just tighten that up...okay, good, it's tight. Let's tighten the right side. Hmmm, wrench won't fit the nut. That's odd. Let's try a 17mm. Hmmm it fits. Okay, did I not really tighten the other side?...No, this 17mm is too big for it. Okay, so: the left nut is a 16mm, and the right one is a 17mm.

Do you see my frustration here? I could deal with the hairline cracks in some of the bolts, but come on! Welding that is so far off the tool won't work? Nuts that are two different sizes? Threads in bolts that are cracked? Where is the quality control? How do the Chinese succeed in building ANYTHING that doesn't kill someone or fall apart?

I guess I know now why they don't build cars. That requires WAY too much quality control. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

And...after I was done "modifying my brake so it would work", I removed the "made in China" sticker. This bitch may have been made in China, but it was "made to WORK" by me...in America.

Oh, and if anyone knows where I can buy an affordable sheet metal brake that's made in the USA, doesn't require modificaitons to work, and is less than 2 bills, I'll gladly buy it. Seems like the USA stopped making them years ago when it became easier to farm work out overseas.

Okay. I'm done.

[Luke Jivetalker]

Solution: DON'T buy shitty tools and you won't have to rant about them!

[MercMan1951]

Like I said...show me an affordable, American-made metal brake that works like it's supposed to, and I'll buy it.

The problem is: THERE AREN'T ANY!!!! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

That was my point.

[Luke Jivetalker]

build one???

[MercMan1951]

No time. Would have...but I'd rather spend my free time on the Merc.

[Luke Jivetalker]

Here ya go, less than a hundred bucks, Made In USA, have fun
Sheet Metal Brake (http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=4006970&storeId=6970&lang Id=-1&productId=21309)

[MercMan1951]

I saw that one...and I have to supply the clamps? That's not a brake! That's glorified angle iron in a vice...that's what I have already!!!

[Hot Rod To Hell]

Hey Merc.... There's a Harbor freight store about 15 mins from me... I bought a $60 brake and it works *perfect*, and if it didn't, theres a harbor freight store about 15 mins from me! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
The way I look at it is this:

If you pay 1/4 of the name brand price, and the tool only lasts 1/2 as long, you're still 2 times ahead of the game...

[Machinos]

The hubcaps on my car's chrome smoothies looked allright at first, then I noticed they had some surface rust where the chrome must have been EXTRA thin. Ohwell, whatever, I didn't care much.

Then one day I took them off, and had to put them back on. They didn't wanna go on right, of course, although that doesn't have anything to do with the "Made in Taiwan" stickers on the inside since EVERY car I've had is like that. The difference it did make, though, is that I dented one WAY in by slapping it with my hand! My BARE FREAKING HAND! Couldn't believe it, ohwell.

Speaking of which, where can I get quality baby moon hubcaps?

[FoMoCo_MoFo]

Sorry to lay this on you, but mainland China is capable of make high quality items some that rival Euro and (dare I say) the USA. Blame the disributors and the companies over here that place the PO's for the shitty quality not the guys building to suit.

[36-3window]

there was plans for a homemade sheetmetal brake on here several months ago from "just steeve" who posts here sometimes.he was the editor for rodders digest and had the same plans in the magazine about 10 years ago....i made two of them then and have used them with complete satisfaction since. maybe the plans could be in the tech O'matic?

[Skate Fink]

.........and as a side note....don't blame the Chinese.......it's the greedy fuckin' AMERICAN companies that are driving the problem. I read an article where Ford is investing 1.9 BILLION dollars in a production facility in China to boost production. "Made in Japan" used to be a joke in this country until they got their shit together and started making quality products. NOW, they manufacture their automobiles IN the USA, using AMERICAN labor, but take the profits back home. What is the US companies' excuse for taking jobs OUT of this company yet charging obscene prices? It isn't about labor costs, competition or imports, it's ALL about GREED!
When Americans can no longer find a job and make the payments on their credit cards, I guess the Chinese will discover VISA/MASTERCARD and keep the world rolling......... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[Petejoe]

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry to lay this on you, but mainland China is capable of make high quality items some that rival Euro and (dare I say) the USA. Blame the disributors and the companies over here that place the PO's for the shitty quality not the guys building to suit.


[/ QUOTE ] My job is to audit and approve new and existing products and assemblies coming into my company. Everytime this subject comes up I can't help but comment on my fears and frustrations. I feel a internal desire to tell every fuckin body I can about my experiences. Every company now is going outside of our borders to fill both their blue and white collar needs to get the cheap labor. My fears are a result of continuing to get cheap, long lasting quality products from China. If you pay a lower price than others for any item, 9 OUT OF 10 times the quality will be inferior. The American distributors are making a billions bringing in Chinese products.THE CHINESE ARE MAKING, WITH SPEED AND ACURACY,.... QUALITY PRODUCTS....
Now Exactly WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO ABOUT IT?

[MercMan1951]

I agree with all of you. My point of discussion wasn't that the Chinese are incapable of producing quality stuff, it's ridiculous to label an entire country; it's just that greedy American companies farm their products out to have things built and sell it back to us, and it's garbage. The thing is, just like in history past, eventually these companies who make junk for us now are essentially given the opportunity (by us) to take more and more jobs away from us & produce better products. It's cyclical. What do the consumers get in the end? Eventually a better product, sold and marketed by a foreign company.

[fab32]

You already stated it. The store was local thats why you bought from them. Take it back to the LOCAL store and get your money back or open another box while you are there and check the contents. You are aware of the shortcomings now and a quick inspection will weed out another flawed product.
We make ourselves victims by going the foreign CHEAP route. There is an old business saying that goes something like this: THERE ISN'T A PRODUCT MADE THAT CAN'T BE PPRODUCED A LITTLE CHEAPER AND OF LESS QUALITY, AND THE MAN WHO SHOPS ON PRICE ALONE IS THIS COMPANY'S NATURAL VICTIM. This may not be a direct quote but you get the idea.

Frank

[deuce]

i know this is a crazy theory, but if people quit buying crap, companies would quit selling crap. do your part! if it means spending more time hand forming sheet metal, than so be it. if it means building your own tools, take pride in your ability to build your own tools. if it means saving up a little longer to buy quality products, then do it.

[james]

In case no one noticed, made in america doesn't mean quality. They manufacture shit every where. As far as chinese / tawainese products- go to any bike shop and look at almost any bike under a thousand bucks. Look at the welds on the frame and tell me they're crap. Most ALL bike frames are made in Tawain. Even cannondale has moved production of frames overseas. You don't compare Harbor Freight to Snap-on, just like you wouldn't buy a Kia and expect Mercedes quality. Cheap tools have their place, just don't expect too much out of it. Now if you paid $400 for that brake and bought it from Eastwood or something, I'd be pissed, otherwise "you got what you paid for".

[zman]

There are some things I will buy from Harbor Freight or Northeren Tools, but most all of it is made in china. What I usually do for most of my equipment is to search out the old ass beat up american made stuff sitting in the back of an old shop and buy that for pennies. I have an old drill press from the 40's that I paid $50 for, put a new motor up on top and away we go. I can't kill the damn thing. Lift, used and taken out of an old shop when they got new ones. I'm looking for a brake now. I'll be looking in the back of machine shops and factories. Next a louver press.... you don't need new, it takes a little longer but you can find it.

[286merc]

Ive been selling tools for about 2 years now. Certainly not on the HF scale.
The first thing I did is spend months looking at what was out there. HF, traveling tool shows, car shows, trade shows, wholesalers, etc.

Lots of garbage with some mighty fine items thrown in. After awhile I learned the process of how the Chinese built things.

You start with a quality American product. The good guys send items to China with orders to duplicate it EXACTLY.
Forget about patent or trademark protection, there aint none. But you get a brake, 20 ton press, engine hoist or whatever that will be built & work every bit as good as its US counterpart. These will often have the name of a well known US company as the distributor. There will even be some that slap their own stickers on and remove any trace of origin and get a premium price from the great unwashed public. A few major national brands including tool trucks come to mind here. One well known retailer has a Christmas sale on various socket and wrench sets in blow molded cases. They say USA. BUT it is a scam cause only the case that the label is on is made in the USA! Perfectly legal.

Now, going down the foodchain, there are wholesalers who send an item over and say build it at the absolute lowest price. Fuck quality if a penny can be saved. I've seen shop presses that crack, hoists that buckle, impact sockets that crack at first use, porta powers with guts missing, etc. Real shit and also dangerous.

I sell the tools out of my 2 man rod shop. We do car shows and an increasing amount of sales to business as our attention to quality reputation spreads (thats why we do the car shows).
Our own shop is a mix of older US machinery bought at auction and brand new China plus some Taiwan. Couldnt be happier with the imports and wouldnt have been able to afford them otherwise.

The "you get what you pay for" can be misleading. I personally know several unscrupulous wholesalers who sell absolute garbage at quality prices.
The import tool business is almost totally unregulated & monitored, US Customs doesnt give a shit what is in the containers as long as they get their money.

[Roothawg]

I try to buy quality stuff, because I plan to do this for a long time. On the other hand, it's hard for me to grasp the concept to "Buy American" when the CEO's and upper mgmt. are selling out our workers due to corporate greed.

I will go out of my way to buy from a mom and pop store, just to try and save a little of what America was founded on. The American's have to realize that the almighty low bid is what is killing our commerce. If we don't set a higher standard and stick to it, we will have nothing to offer but importing products for other countries.

[35hemijim]

286merc, can you post a link to your tools?

[rustynewyorker]

Sounds like someone who should be an Alliance vendor.


But uh, we get a thread like this once every couple weeks. If you know it's going to be crap when you buy it, what's the bitching for? I buy Harbor Freight crap... a grinder for 10 bucks? I bought three, so I didn't have to go back to the store when the first one burned out.. because the last one did, and the one I'm on now, will eventually too. But I'm still ahead on a name brand, they get the work done, and if I lose one or run it over or something, it's not a real loss.

[Tman]

Um, this thread is from 2003!? Hello? Carl/286 has not even been online since last summer.

[decker]

Sounds like someone who should be an Alliance vendor.


But uh, we get a thread like this once every couple weeks. If you know it's going to be crap when you buy it, what's the bitching for? I buy Harbor Freight crap... a grinder for 10 bucks? I bought three

"That was a time when America was great.. when the chrome was thick and the women were straight" -...and Americans designed, manufactured and sold all of our own products!!! Doc Savage

:)

[decker]

Um, this thread is from 2003!? Hello? Carl/286 has not even been online since last summer.


:D funny!

http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/lol-i-r-jawz.jpg

[patrick66]

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry to lay this on you, but mainland China is capable of make high quality items some that rival Euro and (dare I say) the USA. Blame the distributors and the companies over here that place the PO's for the shitty quality not the guys building to suit.

[/ QUOTE ] My fears are a result of continuing to get cheap, long lasting quality products from China.

Cheap long-lasting products from CHINA? Are you short that many brain cells? China specializes in producing SHIT, period, dot! Quality is an unknown in their world!

No, you are wrong here. China is capable of producing SHIT, and that is about all. They take our top-quality scrap steel, melt it down, mix in their inferior alloys, and produce SHIT.

A little history lesson: In the 1950s, when the Steam Era was ending for US railroads and the Diesel-Electric Era began in earnest, the Chinese needed railroad rolling stock, and they knew the United States had the best steam locomotives in the world. Since they couldn't directly engineer and design their OWN, they bought a substantial number of US locomotives for their use in mainland China. Most were large 2-4-4-2 Baldwins that were extremely reliable and then-plentiful. After nearly 20 years, they decided to build their own knock-offs of the Baldwins. The knock-offs were dangerous junk, but the Communist-run railroads kept them going. Fast-forward to the mid-'90s, the ChiComs are our "friends" now, and we start sending billions of US dollars over there to satisfy our national hunger to be able to buy cheap shit at Wally World and Harbor Freight. A contingent of people in California are interested in reviving steam locomotion again for the US railroad market. They find a total of five worn out Baldwin knock-offs in China to export to the US. They were Baldwins in appearance only. These locomotives were a danger to anyone who would try to run them, and needed a tremendous amount of work to get one operable. The quality of fit with the parts was below sub-standard. The fit of parts was not even consistent from one unit to the next!

What does this mean? China makes nothing but SHIT! Notice who they buy their airliners from? The US! What do their Politburo members get driven around in? US-built cars! Who do they buy/steal missile tech and nuke tech from? The US!

You want to buy from China, go right ahead! Even though it is a serious PITA to find anything NOT made there in a US store, I go to great lengths to avoid at all possible, things made there, and therefore avoid W-M, HF, and their crap!

[Mudslinger]

China makes some of the best AK47 around.

[lostforawhile]

Sorry to lay this on you, but mainland China is capable of make high quality items some that rival Euro and (dare I say) the USA. Blame the disributors and the companies over here that place the PO's for the shitty quality not the guys building to suit.AHEM,heres one of their miserable crash test failures. and if you can find the one for the cherry amulet they sell, the car guaranteed to kill you,and they are on the road all over european countries. the one in this video was designed by the chinese. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F06LjugtIUo

[lostforawhile]

oh here it is,the car made from rice paper,and they sell these death traps. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3F3nLj9ljWo

[tfeverfred]

I feel for ya, but as a post said earlier, the Chinese don't make, they mimic. If they are given shitty plans and told to make it cheap, that's what they do. The cost of making stuff in China is cheap because the workers there are paid about $200 a month in American money. If they don't work, they disappear into a camp somewhere. American companies that have stuff made there are the ones to blame. Ask yourself, how much would you care about your job, if you were being paid a bowl of rice a day? Would you REALLY check your welds on a part or tool that was going to a country you can't fuckin' stand? Hell, there's probably a little sticker somewhere on that brake you bought that says, "Fuck USA".

Don't blame the Chinese workers, blame the American corporate asshole, who's trying to buy another Lear jet and a vacation home in Costa Rica on the money he's saving by having his product made over there.

Here's a video. You think these guys really give a fuck about your product?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTsrf2OoBCk

[trevor]

not only is this a very old thread , it is a very old subject that has been discussed many time before with no real answers. we all know that are county has many problems , buying stuff from china is just one of them

i say let\'s give it a rest and go back to hot rods

[patrick66]

Because bitching is fun.

[Rodhotz]

Ya know what after many years of buying the high dollar Snap On air tools and them only lasting a few years I have found it much cheaper to buy the Harbor Freight ones as they do the samre thing and cost a whole lot less and last just about as long. The same cannot be said about the wrenches, but on the other hand I have some Matco sockets and wrenches that are worse than harbor Freight ones. i traded most of that crap in when Home Depot had a deal on their hand tools, not much need for a bunch of broken sockets and wrenches!

[5window]

not only is this a very old thread , it is a very old subject that has been discussed many time before with no real answers. We all know that are county has many problems , buying stuff from china is just one of them

i say let\'s give it a rest and go back to hot rods


amen!!!

[Searcher]

Check out where your Harbor Freight money is going.

http://www.realestatejournal.com/columnists/private/20050228-private.html

[chopdtop]

First thing I said to myself when the news showed the earthquake in China a while back was "Now they know what kind of cheap quality items they are selling to the world"!
Some Chinese official had said that they blamed poor quality steel and construction for some building falling down so fast.

I just wish that some public official/figure would have had the balls to say the same poor quality products that were to blame for so much damage were the same products that they sold to the rest of the world putting everyone else in danger as well. Of course someone could have said it and I didn't see it.

[lostforawhile]

oh those two crash test videos, those were chinese designed and chinese built,and they sell those pieces of shit. the dam geo metro 3 cyl piece of shit did better then those late model chinese death traps. the reason they collapse,is instead of using high strength steel,they use low grade low strength steel throughout the car. it's made of dam tin foil. the second one made out of paper,they have them on the road all over europe

[budd]

china does not make these tools and sends them over here for us to buy, someone over here sends the specs for these tools over to china to have them made, i bought a nice US made 48" brake used, a 52" brown boggs stomp shear used, and a 40 ton scotsmen ironworker used, all were not cheap, then i bought a HF stretcher shrinker, planishing hammer and e-wheel, i like all of them.

[T-Bone]

Check out where your Harbor Freight money is going.

http://www.realestatejournal.com/columnists/private/20050228-private.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvin_Davis

Entrepreneur, philanthropist, father of 5, married to the same woman for 53 years...sounds like a man to admire. Some folks go out in the world and make some shit happen for themselves, others spend their time whining and worrying about what's in the wallet of the man next to them.

[fiat128]

China makes some of the best AK47 around.

Not really, I have a Norinco and the fit and finish on it is about like everything else they make. Works though and does what you'd expect an AK to do.

They do make some decent stuff. I bought a bow saw from HF that I keep by my grill to cut off hunks of mesquite. It works real good:D

[1oldtimer]

i buy old tools and equipment......look for shops the sell old tools or check local papers/craigslist. there's a tool place a few towns over from me that have a jet 36" brake for $650 and i've seen a 24" pexto in the paper for $300.

[murfman]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvin_Davis

Entrepreneur, philanthropist, father of 5, married to the same woman for 53 years...sounds like a man to admire. Some folks go out in the world and make some shit happen for themselves, others spend their time whining and worrying about what's in the wallet of the man next to them.

Not too good on reading comprehension are you? This is the previous owner of the house, NOT the Harbor Freight guy.