SDRA Dragster For The Coast Build Thread

[Old28]

Well I think it is time to start my build thread and introduce myself. My name is Tom Welch, live in Bakersfield, CA (20 min from Famoso Raceway). I have been racing front motored dragsters and altered for the past 35 years. Sold my N/E-2 altered 2 years ago and want to get back in the seat to have some fun. I was ready to buy the second frame that “ThingyM” built about year back, but found a 1929 RPU hot rod basket case and went for it. Well it’s a driver now and I needed a new project. The same chassis and some parts were for sale again, so I jumped on it. For the last few months I have been collecting parts to start my build.

I have met some of the HA/GR group out at the track and hope to talk to all at the races. I have read most all the threads on the HAMB site over the last 3 years and I am going to do what a lot of you have told others when asked about the car they want to build “ Build What You Want, Race It and Have Fun”. Like Dick (old6rodder) says, someone has to build the first one like he did out here. I will be building an SDRA car with a Chevy 250” and a PG (slush box) with L-78 Bias Ply and a mustang rear end.

I may be the only one out on the coast (born and raised out here and only know one coast) and will run with the open wheel cars and with any luck maybe someone else will put one together so I have someone to race. Either way I will be making passes, having fun and that’s what it’s all about.

I will put in lots of pictures so I don’t have to write a lot (not my best trait). I hope the build is interesting and suggestions are appreciated. I am more a driver than a fabricator, so this should be interesting. Hope the car will fit in with the HA/GR group even though I won’t be racing them.

Plans are to have the car race ready for the ANRA Opener next April 2012

[Old6rodder]

Excellent!

Welcome to the gang. Looking forward to your new build ....... and trying to bracket ya in Open Wheel (I'm incredibly inconsistent). :D

You'll be racing us, and pitting with us, if you want to. Remember, it's only the HAMBie that's designated for HA/GR, the fun & games are open.

Hope you can make an occasional Eagle Field as well. Flag/grudge racing's made for us (or we for it, rather). :cool:

[quick7]

Welcome to SDRA. Tou'll have more fun,less problems and less down time
with the 250 and powerglide. I think there are 2 such combos being
built in the Tulsa area right now along with a 258 based Jeep motor
and 240 Ford.
Should have at least 8 cars,maybe more in this area next year,
all with autos.

[Old28]

old6rodder -- Dick, thanks very much for the welcome and invite to pit with the group. We have talked many times about these cars over last few years. I think it will be fun to have a different car in the mix. Maybe ThingyM will keep his 194 and I would have a car to match race during qualifying. I will make as many Eagle Field meets as I can and I hope to just spectate at the July one this year to check it out.

quick7 -- Thanks, I think it will be a nice ride when I get it done. Its been almost 3 years since I was last in the seat and I am looking forward to it. I am going to build the car by the current SDRA rules so I can compare car to car performance and driver ability (this is a gray zone on my part). Are there any Ford 300 in the works? I would really like to see one out here.

[mudflap261]

TOM glad you made the move maybe you will get something startedon west coast.we have had 360 hits on the sdra rules site Tulsaracewaypark .com forum this year which is 1.75 hits a day since posted nov 30 2010

[Old28]

mudflap261 -- Well I sat down last night and said I needed to move on a build thread with the hope that you all will keep me inline (spoken like a Chevy 6 guy) and on track so I have the car ready for next season. Thanks for all the information you passed my way. It would be great if we had another car out this way, but time will tell. We have a great group of HA/GR out here and a fine guy in Butch (ANRA) to help use run this type car.

[Old6rodder]

Many have voiced the opinion that two versions of the HA/GR concept would only split the devotees, cause rifts, and doom either's chances of hanging in. This I've heartily disagreed with since day one, and I believe we're seeing the actuality of it more every day.

The two outlooks on the concept feed two rabid styles of racers, neither of which is in conflict with the other. Rather than splitting some mythical unified group, it actually brings together two camps of folks enjoying a similar style car. It's my firmly held opinion that there'd be fewer of us if either type hadn't come about.

I look at it like fighting with a cousin. Yeah, we have (and enjoy) our differences, but should an outsider step in ....... he best step right back out again, and quickly. :cool:

[Old28]

old6rodder -- Dick, I agree 100% with you. I think it can only help to carry on what has started.

I know you said that it is hard for the HA/GR to run there thing with only 2 qualifying sessions at the ANRA races and I do know what you mean, but I would love to see the look on Butch's face if the HA/GR & SDRA cars made up half the open wheel class.

[Old6rodder]

I know you said that it is hard for the HA/GR to run there thing with only 2 qualifying sessions at the ANRA races and I do know what you mean, but I would love to see the look on Butch's face if the HA/GR & SDRA cars made up half the open wheel class.

Oooooh, I think I almost had a woodie! :D

Butch'd love it, the first thing he said way back when, before we even got to run, was "I wish you had twenty of'em." :cool:

He's been advocating the slushpumper's version right along (better suited to brackets), doesn't care as much for the discburners among us. :rolleyes:

[Old28]

old6rodder -- Well I don't think 20 is possible for near future, but I think we might have 10-12 HA/GR - SDRA cars at Bakersfield in the next two years.;)

And the Open Wheel Class has had 20-25 cars at most sessions, we could easily form half of the field.

That can only help the cause to support Butch (ANRA) and Rocky (Eagle Field).

[quick7]

To answer your question about the 300 Fords:
2 are being built,one should run this year and one ready for next
year.
1 running a C-4 the other a Powerglide.

[Old28]

quick7 -- It will be interesting to see how they run, should be real competitive. Let us know the results if one runs this year.

[Old28]

Got the chassis in the garage, don't have no real shop.:mad:

Set the seat and axle in to see what it looked like. I like it.:D

This is a nice solid chassis out of ThingyM shop and we will add second loop and helmet bars later in the build. This is a little different to have a built chassis and then make your motor/trans set-up fit it. Most of the time it's the other way around.

[bobw]

Classy Chassis! You're gonna have lots of fun building and racing. You put your roadster pickup together fast.

Nice to see the acceptance for deviations from the HA/GR requirements, out there.

[64 DODGE 440]

Classy Chassis! You're gonna have lots of fun building and racing. You put your roadster pickup together fast.

Nice to see the acceptance for deviations from the HA/GR requirements, out there.

That's because we are all a bunch of old deviants. :p

[Skip Pipes]

Welcome to the group.

You have a fine looking chassis to start build an excellent car. As for building a SDRA car! Fully 99% of the people who will look at your car in the pits amongst the other HA/GR’s won’t be able to tell the difference. And that’s great point of theses cars. It doesn’t really matter what you build because this is fun racing.

If you want to build an ADRA car, I say build it the way you want and bring it out. You will be welcome by me and I think everyone else on the Left Coast. I for one won’t have a problem lining my car up against yours. I may need a good driver to compete, but that the fun of it.

Can you imagine a track announcer saying “here’s a pedal car against an automatic, watch how they leave.” Now that's fun.

Skip Pipes

[Old28]

bobw -- Bob, thanks for the compliment on the roadster. It will be ready for the ANRA opener April 2012 come H--l or High water, witch we have little of out here. You know from all the threads that we have a great thing going out on the coast and I wish you were here to run with both type cars, you would fit right in.:)

64DODGE 440 -- Tom, we have not meet yet but please keep the "BIG WORDS" to a minimum as I spent most of my school years in Ventura surfing when I should have been in class.;)

Skip Pipes -- Skip, that is one fine looking HA/GR you have put together, I can't wait to see it run. As I said to old6rodder last night this has got to be a win/win situation to have a group of HA/GR & SDRA cars in one place at the same time. I think the races between the cars will be a lot of fun. As for the driver, if I wanted to win most of my races I would kick me out of the seat. At 250# it will take a real solid build on the motor just to get us going, but we will all have FUN.:D

[Old28]

Well just had to try the seat out and see if this chassis will fit
"my wide frame" ;) Looks like it will do fine.

I got the rear end all cleared of bracket and ready to mount. It is a Ford Mustang 8.8 with traction lock, need to change the gears to 4.10 or 3.90.
Going to pull axles and drums and replace with 5 on 4.5 setup so they will fit the rims I have.

All chassis and running gear will be coated with the best "old school powder coating" Rattle Can Rust-Oleum Hammer Tone Dark Bronze. Rims will be in Allis Chalmers Orange. Still looking for a set L-78 used tires so I don't have to hand my wallet to Coker.

We are moving a little slow, but we are moving.

[ThingyM]

Tom.. See if you can find 2 pairs of tires.. Nothing around here for sure..New ones up here in Signal Hill. Almost $300.00 for the pair...

[Old28]

ThingyM -- Ya Dick, You looking for a set also, I know the ones from Coker are $280 plus shipping. Most of Cokers like the Firestone for my 29 RPU are shipped from warehouse in Fresno. Shipping is not to bad. SDRA allows 6" wide Bias or radials, I may go that way if I can find some cheap. The L-78 would be my first choice.

[Old28]

Well I got some work done on my trans mount. In the use what you got mode I cut out a 6" trans drop from part of a 22 T frame I had and cut it down to a 3" drop. My plan was to bolt it in with tabs from the frame, but it did not look that good so I added tube to the ends and will weld it in. Shortened the mounting plate so it all fit better.

Started putting my front wheel together today. Need to blast/clean and paint. Some pictures in a few days. Still looking for some MC shop fronts tires. Most shops won't even give or sell used tires (Calif-the # one law-suit state).

[Old28]

Just a few more pictures of parts I picked up at swap meet and on the HAMB.

Got a set of bare front hubs and pressed some new wheel studs in. The hairpins were a find at Long Beach Swap Meet and will look nice with the drilled axle. The front wheels are 1933-34 Ford 17" From the HAMB and I will put some MC tires on them. Found some new ones on the bay for a nice price and they fit the 3 3/4" wide rim real good.

Hope to get the rear axle mounting plates cut & fitted this next week.

[bobw]

It's coming along quickly. Nice parts you are gathering. I like the trans crossmember.

[ThingyM]

Holy Smokes,,, And I haven't even touched mine yet..Tom, The way your going, You'll have it done for the next ANRA meet.. Looking Good Buddy....

[Old28]

bobw -- Thanks Bob for the good word. My fab skills are "light years away" from the parts you and others on here turn out, but I try to make them good looking and "Safe". I don't have a lot of parts laying around so I have to work the swap meets and the HAMB classifieds on a regular bases. This car will not be as inexpensive as some, but as Dick (ThingyM) said it is a lot less money than the Nostalgia Eliminator 2 & 3 cars we were both running.:)

ThingM -- Dick, that what Butch said at the April race "you got 2 months get with it". I hope to have it as a complete roller by the August ANRA meet, then spend Fall/Winter building the motor. With your fab skills and shop you will have your flat head V8 ready for the Finals in Oct. :D

[64 DODGE 440]

bobw -- Thanks Bob for the good word. My fab skills are "light years away" from the parts you and others on here turn out, but I try to make them good looking and "Safe". I don't have a lot of parts laying around so I have to work the swap meets and the HAMB classifieds on a regular bases. This car will not be as inexpensive as some, but as Dick (ThingyM) said it is a lot less money than the Nostalgia Eliminator 2 & 3 cars we were both running.:)

ThingM -- Dick, that what Butch said at the April race "you got 2 months get with it". I hope to have it as a complete roller by the August ANRA meet, then spend Fall/Winter building the motor. With your fab skills and shop you will have your flat head V8 ready for the Finals in Oct. :D

Over half the fun in these builds is making stuff for the car and scrounging bits wherever you can find them...Keep up the good work, you are doing a great job and when you get done it will be "your car". That is the best part when people ask who built it and you can just grin and say you did.

[Old6rodder]

Over half the fun in these builds is making stuff for the car and scrounging bits wherever you can find them...Keep up the good work, you are doing a great job and when you get done it will be "your car". That is the best part when people ask who built it and you can just grin and say you did.

Catagorically.

I have a well practiced look for the question "Where d'ya buy one of those?".
It's part confusion and part lack of comprehension. :confused:

:D

[Old6rodder]

Just a few more pictures of parts I picked up at swap meet and on the HAMB.

Got a set of bare front hubs and pressed some new wheel studs in. The hairpins were a find at Long Beach Swap Meet and will look nice with the drilled axle. The front wheels are 1933-34 Ford 17" From the HAMB and I will put some MC tires on them. Found some new ones on the bay for a nice price and they fit the 3 3/4" wide rim real good.

Hope to get the rear axle mounting plates cut & fitted this next week.


Wow, that's one BRIGHT red, Sir. :D

[Joe Hamby]

Founding Floater

http://duckuscrapuspond.com/forum/image.php?u=3&dateline=1201876855 (http://duckuscrapuspond.com/forum/member.php?u=3)

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Tulsa, OK
Posts: 2,304
http://mystatus.skype.com/smallicon/crablogic (http://duckuscrapuspond.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6263#)

http://duckuscrapuspond.com/forum/images/icons/icon1.gif Crab's Pictures from the 2011 "Night of Fire" Jet Car Races
I got my pics uploaded!
Here are the pictures from the "Night of Fire" races yesterday. July 9th 2011:

http://www.crablogic.com/nightfire2011.htm (http://www.crablogic.com/nightfire2011.htm)

CRAB
This is stolen from the Duckus Crappus webb site, A Tulsa area hot rodders webb site. Joe

[Old28]

64 DODGE 440 -- Thanks Tom, I have been collecting parts for a few months and that is half the fun of a build. The nice thing about the HA/GR & SDRA cars is that they are all different, but have the same idea of bringing back the early racing.

Old6rodder -- Dick, ain't that the truth. Some think you can just order one up and be on track next week.:rolleyes: With the hammer tone dark bronze chassis & running gear, Allis Chalmers Orange wheels and purple body panels to go with the "Juice Bucket 4" theme, it may not be the quickest car but you will know we are there having fun making passes.

Joe Hamby -- Joe, thanks for the pictures of the race. What kind of times are the three car running? What type/size motor are in each one? Stepping aside from our cars that Black 40 Willys is one fine looking old school gasser. Any time you got some pictures of SDRA or HA/GR drop them in on my thread for all to see, with what little I can do, I want to see both type cars be a success out on the coast.

[Joe Hamby]

Hi Old28, there were five cars. Roy Merritt 302 GMC that days quickest 11.35
Tod Martin 302 GMC about 11. 37
Bob Hindman 261 Chevy 11. 80
Joe Hamby slant 6 11.53
and the one modern engine, Dave Bridgewater 4liter jeep 9.95 broke out on 11.35 index

[bobw]

Joe, thanks for the pics and the information about the SDRA cars. If I could see the 11's I'd be a happy boy!

[Old28]

Joe Hamby -- Joe, thanks for the information on motor and ET. I am working on a Chevy 261 size motor and would be thriled to run 11.75 - 12.25 after a long learning curve getting one of these cars off the line on 6" tires. Drop any information about these cars or motors on this thread for all to see. Tom

bobw -- Bob, I think you will be real surprised with the head work you are doing on the slant 6, may need more cam and bigger carbs in the future.

[mudflap261]

Hi Old28, there were five cars. Roy Merritt 302 GMC that days quickest 11.35
Tod Martin 302 GMC about 11. 37
Bob Hindman 261 Chevy 11. 80
Joe Hamby slant 6 11.53
and the one modern engine, Dave Bridgewater 4liter jeep 9.95 broke out on 11.35 index
JOE GETS A GREAT BIG ATTA BOY FOR GETTING HIS CAR IN THE MID 11s. ALL THE SDRA GUYS KNOW HOW HARD HE WORKED TO ACHIEVE THIS AGAIN ATTA BOY JOE. I SEE 11/30s IN HIS FUTURE

[Old28]

Well got a little more work done yesterday. The rear end mounts are in place and ready to weld. Still need to re-drill the holes and put in four 1/2" grade-8 bolts and locking nuts. Will build anti-rotation plate for the third member later when I put the drive shaft cover in place. Starting work today on the motor mounts.

[Joe Roseberry]

Tom, I don't know if we have met but if not let me introduce myself. My name is Joe and like you I'm from Bakersfield, born and raised. I run HA/Gr #48 (early Chevy 6) and my granddaughter is driving Rocky's #4 Ford 6. I'm really glad you are putting a car together but at the same time I'm a bit sad that you will not helping the class grow. I know that it is not the easiest way to go but I can assure you that we are having more fun than the guys who are taking the short cut. I look forward to seeing you at Famoso or Eagle Field. Joe

[Old28]

Joe Roseberry -- Joe, I have talked to you before and have seen your granddaughter run at the last two ANRA races. It is nice to see some young people getting interested in this type of car.

As for your comments on me taking "the short cut" & "not helping the class" I think you are way off. There are two types of the same style car here in the States, HA/GR & SDRA and I like the setup of the SDRA car for my type of racing. I know that there are others that would like to build a car like mine, but no one wants to be first out this way. Just because most of the SDRA cars are in the Tulsa area (8-10) with 5 more spread out in other states don't mean we can't have some out on the coast. I know I will not be racing side by side with you in qualifying (but maybe in O/W Eliminations) and that is fine with me.

I hope you understand where I am coming from as I am a big supporter of this type of race car (HA/GR & SDRA) and want to see it grow even more in the next few years. I have got a lot of support in my build thread from the local HA/GR owners and I could not be happier.

[Old28]

Started fabing some motor mounts yesturday from a couple of old 4 bar rear suspenion parts. I had to cut them apart and re-weld as they were an angle set when new. Will modify the brackets so they fit the frame rail. The tubes have 3/16" wall so they should plenty strong. Hope to get them done today.:rolleyes:

[Old28]

Finished the motor mounts today and they are ready to weld in place. Like how they came out and they have about 45-50 degree of angle. I will be working on the steering box mount this weekend if time permits. Sure nice to be retired and have the time to work on projects, a little more cash would be nice.;)

[ThingyM]

Looking pretty snazzy there tom...keep up the good work, you'll have a real looker there....

[Casual 6]

Hi Tom & all others,

Got your PM and just as easy to post here.

I sent Joe Hamby our first burnout results and they are posted here: http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=292331

Great of Joe to set up this list and keep it up to date.

Quick review, Jerry's 300" Ford when 12.30 first time out. At the last race it ran a 11.68.

My dead stock Slant 6 went 16.10 first time out. At the last race I ran a 14.63. My car weighs 1515 lbs w/o driver. Haven't weighed Jerry's yet.

No changes to the cars. Just getting used to them.


- Walt

[Old28]

Casual 6 -- Walt, thanks for the update on the cars. That Ford 300 of Jerry's is one quick ride. When do you think the other two cars will be on the track?
Have ether Jerry or yourself ran the cars with 6" wide street tires? How far are you going with the slant 6 in your car? Be sure to let me know how the cars do at the next few races.

[Old28]

A little steering progress this past weekend. The steering box is out of a VW and is pretty small, but not real light. The good part is that it was in the parts I got with the frame so we will make it work. Fabed up a bracket that will be welded to the firewall loop. Will drill and pin shaft extension on the steering wheel end and work on the pitman shaft extension this week.

[ThingyM]

The VW steering box is a good one, I use them quite often..

[Old28]

ThingyM -- thanks Dick, I almost picked up a spare on on the HAMB Classifieds last week. They are real compack and don't weight to much. I am looking at extending the pitman shaft with 1" tube and supporting the outside end with a home made nylon sleeve bracket on the frame. The steering shaft extension is another piece of the old 4 bar tube I made the motor mounts with, fit like a glove. Maybe a little more work this week.:rolleyes:

[mudflap261]

How much does a vw box weigh

[Old28]

Mudflap261 -- As you see it in the mock up with the bracket & steering tube extension it comes in at 9#, so I would say on or about 5# bare. Nice little unit to work on, I dissembled this one to check it out and it is very easy to reassemble and adjust.

[Old28]

Well I got my axle back from my buddy with 19 1" holes, I like how it looks. This is a 46-49 long axle and is about 2" wider than a stock 32-40 unit. I would have liked a stock 28-31 but this is what I had so it will do fine. My little "toy drill press" was no match for this axle.:oThanks, Danny.

Got all the parts to set up the spindles so I have put in a few shots of the installation. My spindles are 1936 (35-36) and are different than 37-40 round back. There is no 37-40 type king pin made for these so you have to use a 37-40 and modify it to fit. These spindles had thrust bearing on top from Ford when new and I am yet to figure out what good it did. I was able to fine some thin needle thrust bearings to install in the normal way and by shimming the top I was able to use the stock notch in the pin. Because these spindles are smaller the king pin sticks out the bottom about a inch and I will shorten them after I know everything works. Just thought someone might run into a set and the information might be of help.;)

[ThingyM]

Tom.. That must be a Lincoln front axel. because of the width.... As far as the king pins. I don't use the thrust bearings either. We had the same deal on Joe's roadster. Just cut the puppys off....

[Old28]

ThingyM -- Dick, the thin thrust bearing, two machine washers & two .010 shims worked out real nice for the normal area and I used regular dust cap with 3 machine washer on top to get the pin notch in the right place. Know that I have had them on and they work like they should I'm going to disassemble and cut them. You may be right on the axle. I would have liked it a little shorter but the C/L on front tires looks the same as the back will be so I think it will work out fine.

[Old28]

I picked up a set of front tires last week and got them mounted. I looked for some used tires at 8 MC shops in Bakersfield area and none would sell or give away any used tires. "California-Home Of Liability Law Suites" so I got a new set. They are 110mm x 80mm x 17" and they fit my 1933/34 3.50 wide rims real nice.

With my axle/spindle/hubs together I had to see what it looks like. So I mocked it up with the hairpins just to check it out. Think it looks real cool. Seeing it there makes you feel like you have something going, when in reality I have tons of stuff to do yet. I am working on a spring setup that will mount on top of the axle and be a 2 leaf setup. The spring mount holes are 4" wider on this axle than a normal 28-42.

[Old6rodder]

Sir, THAT's some serious red. :eek:

The build's looking great. :cool:
I can see why you'd want to soften that front suspension a tad. :D

[Old28]

Old6rodder -- Come on Dick, compared to the colors on those floats you build the wheels are very mild.;)

My old bones will not stand for solid suspension front and rear. Got to come up with a plan. I'm thinking Tech will not pass the double C-clamp hold down.:mad:

[64 DODGE 440]

Old6rodder -- Come on Dick, compared to the colors on those floats you build the wheels are very mild.;)

My old bones will not stand for solid suspension front and rear. Got to come up with a plan. I'm thinking Tech will not pass the double C-clamp hold down.:mad:

Try single C-clamp...has a little more give to it.

[Old28]

64 DODGE 440 -- Tom, that would work, but it always comes back to what that Tech guy thinks (on any given day).:rolleyes:

I would love to weld in a set to mount something from just to mess with there mines.:eek:

[64 DODGE 440]

Building one of this type of car requires a sense of humor...always fun to add the little personal touches. Be creative and have fun with your build. Hope to see you at Eagle Field in October. :D

[1929CDAN]

Looks great. Have fun with it!!

[Old28]

64 DODGE 440 -- Tom you have it all right, make it like you want and have fun building it. My biggest problem is that I am more of a driver "not a real good one" than I am a builder, that is a fact.;) I can't wait to get the car on the track and if that was next week it would not be soon enough. I think the Eagle Field race in Oct is same weekend as the ANRA Race and we will be running a buddy's NE-2 car at the Aug & Oct races.

1929CDAN -- Thanks for the kind word, I do not fancy myself a fabricator. I just try to put stuff together so it looks wright and has an old school look.

[nexxussian]

"Double C Clamp mount", why not.

I would always show up at pre season tech with something held on with vise grips with the handles duct taped together. :D

It helps to draw their attention from where you don't want them to look. ;)

[Old28]

nexxussian -- Erik, they must have loved seeing you arrive for tech with a fine pair of vice grips and the best Racer Tape.

We have a real good thing going with our local tech people and I don't want to rock the boat so I will just install regular u-bolts for now.:cool:

I am thinking, welded C-clamps supporting my battery box. It would be a conversation peace and the extra weight would be right over the rear axle, as if I need more weight for traction.:D

[ThingyM]

Boy Tom,,, With all the parts you have now, You should be able to finish it up real quick..

[Old28]

ThingyM -- Well Dick it all looks real good today. It should help me get to the track a little sooner. Now if I just had a "small little radiator" I would be set.:rolleyes:

Thanks buddy

[bobw]

Geo radiator and fan from a U-Pull yard for around 25 bucks.

Your build is outstanding.

[Old28]

bobw -- Thanks Bob, is there any year in perticular to look for or are they all about the same?

Thanks again for the kind words, it is appreciated when it comes from a guy with your building experience. I am sure there will be things that other may have done a little different and I am up for that and open to all ideas. I just want the car to look old school and be a part of the good thing we have going in the local area. I hope we can run these cars with the ANRA for years to come. Tom

[bobw]

Based on today's experience, I'm now thinking the Geo radiator is insufficient. I was at Test And Tune with my 406 SBC/Crosley wagon. 90 degrees and very humid. There was nobody in staging so no waiting to make a pass. Engine temp consistently reached 210-220 by the time I got back to the pits. I can see a problem if you have to wait, idling for several minutes in the staging lanes. 400's tend to run hot so maybe an HA/GR with a Chevy 6 won't have a problem.

[Joe Hamby]

Bobw, think about the horse power that you might build, and plan to cool that horse power, not just the cu. in. If you plan on a real strong 302 GMC, then cool it like a 350 chevy. I know that it is only for a short time but with all out driving, it builds a lot of heat.
I have a electric fan and electric water pump motor, so that I can turn off the motor and leave those two on for a few moments to cool it down. Look at the burnout list, at the bottom for a you tube of a 11.53 run. Joe

[Old28]

bobw -- That's what I was thinking about trying to cool a built Chevy 261.
I am having the same problem with my 29 RPU and the modified Mustang radiator, wants to run at 220-230 with both an electric and stock 5 blade fan.
I"m concerned that in the SDRA car with all the time in the staging lane and the drive back from the top end will build more heat than I can handle. There are a few sprint car radiators at the local swap meet that look like they might work, aluminum, thick and not to big that I have seen and they are not to expensive. I'll keep looking for a while. Tom

Joe Hamby -- Joe, you make a good point as that is how we looked at cooling our NE-2 Injected BBC that was a 875 HP 502" motor. If I might ask what are you running on your HA/GR? Tom

[Joe Hamby]

Mine is a radiator out of a dodge mini van that had a V6, I should have got one a little bigger. I first used the elect fan that came with it (no real shroud) then I switched to a good fan with a shroud. at the end of the run it will sometimes get to 220, and that is not a problem, as long as you still have liquid in it. I have a tranny cooler that is for a good size truck, The 4500 stall conv will build some heat. Along with the motor with 14 to 1 compression. It's just like a larger oil pan, you just need a little more protection for the engine (9) quarts oil. And a deep pan for the tranny.

[Old28]

Joe Hamby -- Thanks Joe for the information, this motor should have about 11.5-12.0 CR and I will run a 3500 converter with a glide. PG has a deep alum pan and an old race cooler from one of my past cars. I think the fan shroud is a key item for an electric fan to do its job. Tom

[Old28]

COME ON HA/GR & SDRA CAR OWNERS OUT THERE, SOMEONE NEEDS TO BE THE FIRST TO PUT THERE CAR ON THE NEW THREAD THAT
Dick (old6rodder) HAS STARTED. IT WOULD BE GREAT TO HAVE ALL THE CARS WITH A PICTURE AND INFORMATION IN ONE PLACE.:)

SOMEONE GOT TO START IT !!!!!!!!! :rolleyes:

[64 DODGE 440]

COME ON HA/GR & SDRA CAR OWNERS OUT THERE, SOMEONE NEEDS TO BE THE FIRST TO PUT THERE CAR ON THE NEW THREAD THAT
Dick (old6rodder) HAS STARTED. IT WOULD BE GREAT TO HAVE ALL THE CARS WITH A PICTURE AND INFORMATION IN ONE PLACE.:)

SOMEONE GOT TO START IT !!!!!!!!! :rolleyes:

We'll be glad to add ours there...just need to get it done and running first.

[Old6rodder]

Actually, "under construction" would be good too. Just want to have pictures, as that's what most folks are drawn to and I think it'll help when they see how many are both running and building. I just don't want to start off with my own on my own thread. I want to get a few others in first, so the point'll be clear.

[Old28]

Well Dick & Tom, if mine was a complete roller I would be the first to jump in, but it don't even look like a race car yet.:(

I think having all the cars and some facts on each in one place is great and will only help to build interest in the classes. It's like you have told me many times "someones got to be first".;)

[64 DODGE 440]

OK...We'll try and roll it outside this week and get some good pictures. :p

[bobw]

I'll do it soon. Just have to gather a bit more information. Can we edit the posts in the future as things change?

[Old28]

bobw -- I am sure that Dick can do that as he will be moving the material to the top like the burnout list and can update at any time, I Think!;)

I just put something in my thread to encourage some of the owners to go to Dick (old6rodder) HA/GR & SDRA PHOTOS thread and get it started. Tom

[Old6rodder]

I'll do it soon. Just have to gather a bit more information. Can we edit the posts in the future as things change?

Absolutely, that's one of the points of it; to be current. You can post updated pictures and/or info here, P.M. it to me here, e-mail me directly, or send it by carrier pigeon. I'll then tidy it up (if needed) and update the original page.

[Old28]

old6rodder -- Dick, not trying to side line your thread, only want someone to get it started.;)

I will get back to what my thread is about and try to get the car ready so I can get it in there. Best of luck, it will be a great place to look at the cars.
I know as you do that it will help both classes of cars. Tom

[ThingyM]

Hey Old28, Where are you. I haven't seen you on here for a dab ??,, Things still going OK for the car.?? I can't do a thing with mine, Can't get the engine out here from Kansas.. So I guess I'll be sitting for awhile again..Oh Well, So be it....

[Four Banger]

Thingy....stick that 194 "Baby Bolt" back in there and go get em! If anyone doesn't like it,.... well there are 359 other points on the compass they can stare at!

[Old28]

ThingyM -- Hi Dick, Ya I have been off board for a few weeks trying to get my 29 RPU ready to sell. I want to take it to the Aug & Oct races and I got a swap space at the Hot Rod Reunion to sell it & some other stuff.

My good friend Danny V stopped by yesterday after work and welded up the motor mounts, trans mount and the rear end brackets. Now the old 250 block, trans and rear end are solid in the frame. Need to order some stuff for the front end so I can get it to a roller by end of the month.

Want to drop the 194 back into your car so you can make a few passes?;)
Don't need it until first of the year!!!!!!!!!

Four Banger -- Dick would probably do that if it wasa't setting in my garage. It has a new home in my SDRA hambster for next year and we will see how much the little 194 can do for the year while I build a big 250.
You have a "point", that's why I am Building my SDRA car.

[Old28]

Well played around in the garage today and made a axle support that has it sitting at ride height. I have the chassis setup level and tried an old spring that I had to see what it looked like. :mad: The spring is to long and has to much arch in it. I think I will get a used trailer spring about 25" long with half the arch and make some spring towers for the shackles.

This will set the front of the chassis about 2" lower than the rear. I think it will look much better. We will see when I get the spring.:)

A little every day, hope to have a full roller by end of the month.

[Old28]

Well had a nice weekend at the August ANRA Nostalgia Race here at Famosa Raceway in Bakersfield, CA (nice if you like to race in 101 & 102 Temp):D. Spent a little time talking to Dick (old6rodder) about the HAMBster cars that are running and the ones that we know are being built.

There is talk that we may have 3 SDRA HAMBster cars at the ANRA races in 2012. As I am building one currently for next season, I am thrilled at the idea of having someone to race with during the Saturday qualifying as the HA/GR HAMBsters do.

I spent some time talking to (Flathead Gary) who runs a V8 flathead with a C4 automatic and for next year he is going to dig up a set of 6" street tires and run them on his "Old School Roadster" as a SDRA car. Hope it all works out so we have a couple of cars to mix it up with.

[Old28]

Well got the new trailer spring and finished the spring hangers. The trailer spring is only 26" long and looks much better than the old long one I had laying around. It also lets the chassis sit 2" lower than the rear frame for a nice little slope to go with the Big/Little tires. Hope to get the hairpin brackets mounted and setup later this week. A little each day.;)

[Old28]

Well it has finally cooled of a few degrees in the Central Valley and was 86 deg yesterday and seemed cool after two months of 98 + weather here in Bakersfield, CA. I'm sure we are not out of the woods yet, but maybe by Oct 1.

Got some more done on the front end, Hairpin Axle Brackets, Steering Arm Mounted, Hairpin frame mounting plates tacked, Steering quick connect ready to weld. Working on some braces for the steering shaft support. Hope to get my buddy Danny V to finish weld some stuff first of the week.

Not a lot to show for a months work, Had to go the Fenton, MI to see my grandkids play football & Soccer for a couple of weeks, they keep me feeling younger the more time I spend with them.:)

I will just keep moving forward and I will have a roller soon.;)

[duke182]

looking like great progress

[bobw]

Your front end is nicer than mine. Now I have to change mine to catch up.;)

One thing, make sure the front spring shackles are horizontal (with no load on the spring) when welding the brackets to the axle. With that spacing the shackles should be at a 45 degree angle when the chassis weight is on it.

You are doing a great job on your chassis.:)

[Old28]

bobw -- Nice to hear from you again. Thanks for the nice comment, but it will be a cold day in (you know were) when anything I fab up looks better than your build stuff, you are a craftsman, I'm just a driver trying to get a car together and have it look period correct.

I know what you are saying on the spring angle. With the mounts tacked I removed the wood saddle so the weight would be on the front end with the motor & trans in place and they moved only a few degrees. With the car in the same position I stepped up on the frame about 2' back from the axle to see what my 250# would do and the shackles only moved a few more degrees. My car is 125" wb so I have more wt towards the rear than a lot of these cars. The spring is very stiff and it makes the front suspension more like a sold mount and this is how I wanted it.

I hope it works like I want, but maybe I should move the brackets out to start/end near a 45 deg angle. What do you think?

[bobw]

I think you are right. My recommendation is based on front engine hot rod needs. With the stiff spring and the lack of weight on your front end you probably will be just fine.

I am going to redo the front on mine. It has an unmolested '34 wishbone that a young friend could use. So I'll make wishbones which will be lighter.

Thanks for the kind remarks. My trick is I keep the camera a little out of focus so my stuff looks pretty good in small pictures.

[Old28]

bobw -- I am a few days from welding the brackets and I am going to take another look just to make sure. I set the ones on the 29 RPU as you said and with the motor right up front they are a little below 45 deg.

You can pitch it any way you want, but most all on the site and our other favorite one know about your fine work, it gives us something to work towards.

I know you ran un-split bones on the car and it worked out nice. Are you going to run split ones up the side this time?

[bobw]

Old 28, I'm going to make hair pins figuring they will weigh less. Will be bringing the dragster into the front garage soon as the rodding/racing season is rapidly giving way to a cold, windy Fall season. Although next week is supposed to be nice.
Started assembing the new engine yesterday and finally, the crankshaft fits properly.

By now, you must have a lot of that welding done.

[Old28]

bobw-- If I had not found the nice set of hairpins I would have loved putting on a set of split bones with a bunch of holes in them. I like that old school hot rod look. I am sure the hairpins are half the weight of a set bones even with the holes.

With this De-fibulator in my chest I have to stay away from mags, electric welder generators as much as I can, so I have a good race friend of many years that comes by and finish welds the stuff I tack up. He has a nice portable Miller unit on his truck that he can do both Mig & Tig welding. We should have most of it done Mon or Tue.

We have the last ANRA race of the season next weekend, but it looks like the HA/GR will be at Eagle Field as both races are on the same weekend this year.

Good luck with your motor build and stay worm this winter, here it is Oct-1 and today was the first time in 3 months that it has been below 90 deg in the valley (86deg today) and I hope we are done with summer for this year.
Took the RPU for a cruise today and it likes the cooler weather also.

[Old28]

Well I got the welding done on the front end and 90% on the steering on Monday, Sprayed the front end parts and front 1/3 of the frame with Lowe's best rattle can dark bronze, packed the front wheel bearings, need to complete steering shaft support, make the aluminum pitman arm and weld up a steering drag link, pickup the rear tires and we will have a complete roller.

Ya it is not a lot of production for a real fabricator, but for this old timer a little each day keeps the build on schedule. I like the drilled axle more each time I look at it, brings out the "old school hot rodder" in me.

[Old6rodder]

Nice pictures, it's coming along well.
I'm looking forward to your first road/driveway test. :cool:

[64 DODGE 440]

Looks good from here...Keep up the good work. :D

[Old28]

Dick (old6rodder) and Tom (64 DODGE 440) Thanks for the good word on the build. Have a great time at Eagle Field this Saturday and be safe. I think I can see the light at the end of the tunnel. I'm sure it will be a little brighter when it is a roller.

[ravedodger]

Hey Tom, I just stumbled across this thread last night and finished it this morning. I had no idea you'd be building something like this, but I kind of figured you couldn't stray too far from racing. Hahaa. It looks great. I was just telling my wife the other night that I should build a little dragster with the extra parts I have accumulated with for my crazy piece-by-piece project. That way we'd actually be able to race something---especially her. She wants to drive something that would actually have a chance at winning a race against something since all she's ever really driven are four cylinder cars.

The truck looks really nice in the pictures. Too bad you're selling it.

Maybe I could stop by soon to see all you've done since I was last over.

And BobW, that was a great thread about the 25 Dodge coupe build over on the other site. I bought one myself when an acquaintance got into a bind and needed a little cash. I ended up with the body, a 9" and a ford 3 speed tranny in the deal. Too bad I don't have a Dodge frame though.

[Old28]

Dave -- Your right about me and racing and this is going to be a fun ride when it is done. This would be a great car for your wife to start in. They run in the area of 11.50 - 15.00 sec ET. I dropped you a PM with my cell # stop by and check it out. The RPU was all about the build and now that it a runner I will be moving on to something else. Its a cool ride.

[Old28]

Well I got to work on the pitman arm today and have it mounted. The front steering arm on the spindle measures 6 1/2" from the mount to the center of the steering drag link hole, so in the pitman arm I drilled 3 holes that are
5 1/2" / 6 1/2" / 7 1/2" down from the shaft center line. I think I will be able to set the steering at the middle hole for a "neutral" setting and can move it up or down to slow or speed it up. Lot of hand work, filing and sanding. Don't need a stink-en mill, OK I wish I could afford one.:rolleyes:

In testing it I still think I need to install a shaft support at the frame for the steering tube that comes from the box. I have more play in this area than I like. I think a Teflon block will work fine, so I will work on that later this week.

Next on the list is the steering drag link and with that we should have a steerable car.

Got to make a trip to Dick (ThingyM) shop tomorrow to scrounge some more parts & pieces he is offering me,I "never" say no to parts.

[bobw]

It's looking really good Tom. You are a good "hand miller".

I got a pair of close up specs just like the ones in your first pic. Would be lost without 'em.

[Old28]

bobw -- Ya, I need them most all the time for close up work and I lose them now and then, so I buy 3 or 4 at a time at the local drug store.

Picked up a chevy 230 long block from Dick (ThingyM) today and want it because it has same crank as a 194 @ 3.25" and the block is the same bore as the 250 @ 3.85". I am still working on a finial motor built and I would like to have some spare blocks and cranks. I think I have ruled out a 292 build because of the RPM safe limits. I now have two 194 62cc heads. I still would like to build a 250 bored .125 to 4" (pour fill the block if I need to), run 327 sbc pistons. I think this motor can run 6500-7000 RPM with some good reconditioned rods (ARP bolts/shotpin/resize big end) and not have to go to a set of Crower ($650).

Theirs a lot to be said for "hand milling", a lot slower, but very rewarding in the long run and I have lots of time.

[bobw]

You are plannng a healthy engine. I love the sound of a healthy in-line.

[Old28]

Bobw -- Ya I hope it will be a solid healthy motor ether way I go. The head will be the same, 194 Sm cc with sbc 194/160 valves. If I go with the 230 motor I can use Chevy 307 FT pistons, it is a little more work and cost to bore the 250 block to 4" so I can run Chevy 327 FT pistons. You know use racers, "there's no substitution for Cu In". I still have some time to figure it out.

Another point to remember is that I want to be able to drive the car up to the lanes, run it, then drive it back to the pits. If I pore fill the 250 block I may not be able to do that. I picked up an aluminum radiator from Dick (ThingyM) and will run it, and use an electric fan if I need to.

This week it's all about selling some stuff at the California Hot Rod Reunion, got a swap meet space, setup on thur, they qualify & race F/S/S. Hope I make a few bucks to put back in the car.

[64 DODGE 440]

Well I got to work on the pitman arm today and have it mounted. The front steering arm on the spindle measures 6 1/2" from the mount to the center of the steering drag link hole, so in the pitman arm I drilled 3 holes that are
5 1/2" / 6 1/2" / 7 1/2" down from the shaft center line. I think I will be able to set the steering at the middle hole for a "neutral" setting and can move it up or down to slow or speed it up. Lot of hand work, filing and sanding. Don't need a stink-en mill, OK I wish I could afford one.:rolleyes:



Made a bunch of parts with my drill press, band saw and belt sander...Poor mans machine shop. :p

[Old28]

64 DODGE 440 -- "Ban Saw" is considered pretty high tec machine shop in my tool collection:D but I do wish I had one. No room in my garage shop for one anyway. Hand tools rule:rolleyes:

[64 DODGE 440]

64 DODGE 440 -- "Ban Saw" is considered pretty high tec machine shop in my tool collection:D but I do wish I had one. No room in my garage shop for one anyway. Hand tools rule:rolleyes:

Before I got the band saw, (for free as it had a broken part I had to repair) I made lots of stuff with a hack saw and a thirty plus year old 2 speed Black and Decker saber saw that I bought for $16.00. Still have it and it still works.:p

[Old28]

Well guys & gals I have been away from my thread for couple of weeks and sold my 29 RPU at the CHRR (CA Hot Rod Reunion) at Famoso Raceway in Bakersfield last weekend. I can use some of the funds to work on the SDRA dragster. It was a great swap meet with about anything you could want for old hot rods and race cars. A lot of fun if you like a really "BIG" crowd.:mad: It has to be NHRA's biggest fund raiser of the year with what they charge.:eek:

I did get a little more done on the steering arm pitman brace and got the drag link built and installed. I welded up a bracket that is welded to the frame and took a piece of Teflon stock, bored it to 1", cut it in half, and banded it with a water hose clamp. It took all the play out of the arm and the shaft turns nice in the Teflon. Got the drag like shaft welded up and installed and we now have a steerable front end.

Next comes a rear end gear change and new brakes for the Mustang rear end.

[bobw]

Hoping to get out there for the March Meet or the Reunion some year soon, before I get too old.

Work is progressing nicely on your rig. I'm liking everything you are doing.

[Old28]

bobw -- Well if you want to see full time every day nostalgia drag racing the March Meet is the best show around. The CHRR is more about the "Party" and show and tell. Lots of dead time on the track. If you ever make it out this way we have a room open any time.

Thanks for the nice words, it means a lot coming from a true craftman like yourself. Gears should be here on Wed and I can start putting rear end back togeather, out with the 2.70 road gears and in with 3.90 race gears. I picked up a new set of Cooper 235/75-R15 Radials that are right at 6" tread and 28 1/2" tall, they meet the SDRA Rules, I do wish they were 29" tall but I think they will work fine. They will be mounted on a set of Ford 6" wide x 15" factory steel rims. The guys in Tulsa area use Hancock tires but the size is a little hard to find out this way for a reasonable price.

Maybe I will finally be able to get a picture to (old6rodder) for the HA/GR -
SDRA thread in a week or so, I wanted it to be a full roller first.

[CrkInsp]

Just to set the records straight, The Coker tire is what most of the Tulsa Guys use.
It is the one that the Hamb started with and we will most likely vote on as the Spec.
tire at our next meeting. They are hard and one team (Bob Hindman) has run his for five years (approx. 500 passes), and they still show very little wear.
CrkInsp
Jr. Clark

[Old28]

CrkInsp -- I was just going by what information (Mudflap) had passed on my way. Are you saying that all the SDRA cars racing at Tulsa will be using the L78-15 Bias ply tire next year? So what is with your Radial tire rule?

As there is no other SDRA car racing on the West Coast for now I will run the Coopers I have and see what you guys sort out. What's the problem with the Radial Tire, hooking to good and ET pushing the track limit for these cars? Are you guys trying to see how few tires you have to buy over a 5 year period or are you wanting to get the best tire for the class? If I have to buy a set of tires every few years so be it. Still a lot cheaper than a new set of Goodyear for an altered roadster.

[CrkInsp]

Old28
There was a car that used a pair of drag radials this year. Yes they worked great, but
they were pushing the rules a little. A couple of different radials have been tried.
Most of them (radials) have a more aggressive thread, less rubber on the ground, along with a slightly softer compound. Radials do have a better side wall (softer) than the bias ply tire.

If a slick with a 6 in. thread that was just softer than concrete was out there I think
that would make a good tire for the period look. That would also make alot of smoke
and equalize the big engine and small engine controversy. Just my thoughts.

We already have a couple of cars that are bumping the self imposed index, so a better
tire isn't something that is needed. Plus these cars are on the bias Cokers.

CrkInsp
Jr. Clark

[Old28]

CrkInsp -- The Cooper 235/75-R15 are a street tire and not drag radials. As I read your current rules they are fine. I have no interest in drag radials or slicks for this car and as I said before the Coopers are 6" tread wide mounted on 6" wide rims.

My question would be why not leave the tire rule at L78-15 Bias or 6" wide "street" tire as it is now? Put in an addition that "NO DRAG RADIALS" or "CHEATER SLICKS" can be run.

[Old Jimmy Six]

That rule is and has been part of the SDRA rules, No drag radials or Cheater slicks allowed. 4 years ago when I was putting my car together I was going to run M and H DOT tires which are bias ply but soft rubber and little tread primarily for drag racing. I was ttold that for drag racing tires were not allowed. The reason that radials were allowed is that some felt they were a safer tire than a bias ply. I think your tires reflects the rules as they are now written. The one cvar that ran the drag radial is capiable of 142.5 mph so what he was doing is pulling out ahead of you and then easing off the run and run beside you until the end. When he was made to run bias ply tires and run against me I squirted out ahead because he ran the engine up against the convertor and went up in a ball of amoke and I beat him with a 11.40 against 11.78 but my speed was 116 against his 133. The bias ply or street radial is the great equalizer.:D

[Old28]

Old Jimmy Six -- That sounds great. That is one quick car you run. As I read the rules I thought that you could run eather L-78 Bias 6" wide or a street radial 6" wide. We may have two other car out this way run as SDRA cars and they are going to run the same street radial type tire I am next season. Both cars are old school roadsters with rectangler tube bottom rails. Hope we have 3 SDRA type cars to go with the 5 or 6 HA/GR cars at our ANRA Opener in 2012. Great group of HAMBster style race cars.

Yea those 6" tread tire are a good equalizer.;)

What size Jimmy are you running? Est HP?

Are you guys running on a self imposed 11.25 limit?

[mudflap261]

11.35

[Old28]

mudflap261 -- Thanks for the clarification, 11.35 is cooking. What is the resoning for it not being 11.25 or 11.00? Is it the NHRA 135mph rule for additional safety equipment? If I was to ever run an 11.35 with the motor I am going to build it would be a day of celebration & a big pit party.:D

You guys have a few years under your belts and your times show it. I am only a "newbie" to this 6" tire game, but I know it will be fun.:rolleyes:

[Old Jimmy Six]

11.35 was set last year because no one was going faster than 11.41. This year my car went 11.29 and I don't know why other than the air was good and the jetting was good at that point. As it cooled off that night I dropped back to 11.40s, probably if I had put 62s in for jets it would have picked up but I didn't. The GMC is 320 cu. in. with Hudson rods and I would say it puts out about 340 hp.:)

[mudflap261]

I will try. we had 2 cars that ran 11:50s consistently and if condtions where right could run 11:40s every body else was high 11s to 13s . if we set it at 11:50 they would be breaking out ,if we went to 11 even we felt new guys would think they were going to have to spend to much to keep up. Then we have our Big Dog/Porch Dog elimination thats where everybody runs every round, winners run winners ,losers run losers . At this time us senile old men have lastplace sewed up .at thime there 3 new cars built. it remains to seen when they will be finished.i hope ianswerd your question

[Old28]

Old Jimmy Six - Thanks for the numbers and that is one well built and tuned 320" motor, 340 HP is a ton. You must have a well proven 60' system, all of witch I hope to learn in time. I am only looking to build a Chevy 266" 4" bore motor and will be happy if it put out 270-275 HP. Only time will tell.

mudflap261 - I do agree with what you are saying about an 11.00 limit and the money that will be needed to run there consistently. Anything to help the guys just starting out is a good deal. It is nice that you guys have a race system for these cars and it looks like it works for your races. We are still in the growing stages and just try to pair up with other HAMBster's (HA/GR with HA/GR and this year SDRA with SDRA) during Saturdays qualifying in our OPEN WHEEL CLASS and then on Sunday for elimination you are bracketed with another Open Wheel Car based on Saturdays best reaction time. It is a bracket race (dial your ET) and you might have a HAMBster style car racing an injected SBC front motor dragster. It's a fun group and good racing. The bottom line is we are making passes.

[Four Banger]

Old 28,
If you bore that block to 4 inches, hard fill it. I ran a 4.00 x 3.25 in my oval track car. Those things get pretty thin in the cylinder wall at 4 inches. Mine hauled ass, but ran hot all the time, and split a wall after about 7 races. I knew several people back then that tried this, and every one of them lost their engine, sooner than later. I think with a filled block it would work. I'd just run water through the head....

[Old28]

Four Banger - That is my main concern with the 250 motor bored to 4". I have to be able to drive the car to the lane, race & drive back to the pit.
I have to run "gas", no alcohol, and I don't think I can keep the motor cool with a radiator and water in the head only.

As an alternate idea I thought about a Chevy 250 +.060 with a zero deck block and a 62cc 194 small chamber head with 194/160 sbc valve and .050-.060 off the head, CR about 11.2. I know I can keep it cool with a full water block/head/radiator and I still think it will make 255-265 HP with a 257" motor and will stay together.

Any suggestion or old racer knowledge?

[christmas tree]

Don,t use the 194 head as the valves are shrouded too much. A 230-250 head will breath much better.

[Old28]

christmas tree - I had plans to port & polish and releave the shrouding on the 194 heads. I like the small chamber 62cc for an easy 11.25/1 CR. With the 230/250 head and the 72 or 74cc chamber the best I could work out on paper was 10.35/1 CR. Do you think that the 230/250 head with 194/160 sbc valves will out perform the 194 head set up the same way?

Other have told me that the small chamber 62cc head is the better setup but I will need to unshroud the valves, take .060-.065 off the head and put in the bigger valves.

[bobw]

I did a bit or research in my Leo Santucci Chevy 6 book. With a 4" bore it is stated that "Block Hard" is necessary to within an inch or so of the top of the block.
Also it shows that Sissell starts with new head castings with an 84cc chamber and still cuts the chamber around the valve for flow. Any less than a 64 cc's restricts flow. There is also info regarding angle milling to gain compression. Glen Rarick gets 12 to 1 with flat tops in a .030 over 250 by angle milling .125" on a 194 head.

A major caution in the book is to use aluminum rods in any engine that will be twisted into the 7,000 range.

Have you looked into bolt in lump ports?

One additional caution in the ook regards a head bolt hole that runs into the water pump cavity. Not much meat there. There is a fix but it would be best for you to get the book so you can see it.

Good luck on your engine.

[Old28]

bobw - Bob I have the book and read most all of the points you bring up. With the block filled to the right place I don't think there is any way for me to be able to drive the car to and from the line. I think my plan "B" of a .060 over 250 with flat top pistons and full water jackets is a more do able plan.

I have talked to Mike Kerby at Sissell about a couple of head plans that will not deplete the bank. One is a sportsman setup where the chambers are worked to unshroud the valves, cut out the intake bosses and install short ARP head bolt in all the intake ports, install 194/160 sbc valves. this is a good flowing setup for a 6200-6500 RPM that can use good rebuilt steel rods with ARP bolts. Mike said that lumps are only real affective on more all out race motors and he said the same thing about alum rods over 7000 RPM. The nice thing about doing his sportsman head work is that all the machine work & valves would be the same as with a lump head. You would have to do some additional machine work and add the cost of the lumps, this can be done later if I really want to go to a all out race motor. Not sure I would put that kind of cash in this type race car.

[CrkInsp]

Old28 - Buy volume 2, it has more info that you could use.

[Four Banger]

I think your power estimate is probably fairly close. We were restricted to one single barrel carb in our oval class, and .410 valve lift. With decent porting, and compression around 12-12.5 to 1, we were seeing around 165 hp at the rear wheels. Later, after I left oval racing, the class began allowing the new generation Chevy V-6's. The inliners were allowed a 500 cfm two barrel on an aftermarket intake to equalize the competition. The fastest inliner around was a 230, and it was dyno'd at 210 hp at the rear wheels at 6100 rpm. That engine lasted FOREVER, and shattered track records wherever it went. With a bit more cam and a good four barrel, I think you can get 250 hp pretty easily. One thing we did learn, was breathing did seem to trump compression, once the engines were allowed a bigger carb. Also, with stock parts, a 230 will spin faster than a 250, because of the fully counterweighted crank. They're just smoother. Of course, oval racing is VERY hard on engines, especially inline sixes with that long noodley crank. Drag racing....I'd go for the cubic inches.

[bobw]

Sorry, I didn't know you had read Santucci's book. Most everything I know is from reading it. No personal experience.

Volume 2 of Leo Santucci's book is available on Amazon.com.
How "reasonable" is the Sissell sportsman head?

[Old28]

Four Banger - That is some good information you have layed out. I ask a lot of question and want to do it right the first time, then make improvements as time goes on. As a life long drag racer I like all the cubic inches I can get and 11-12 CR. I plan on running 3 94's on a fabricated intake for the more nostalgia look and I also have an offy 4bl intake to try later.

bobw - No need to be sorry, bad chose of wording on my part.:mad: I am better talking than writing. Any and all comments from you are appreated and welcome at any time. Don't cut your personnel experence short, "motors are motors" and your have been doing this a long time. I have the "second edition" of Leo's manual, is it the same as Volume 2? As for the cost of a sportman head from Sissell (Mike Kerby) I will have to talk to mike again as we talked a lot of different ways to go, 194/230/250 heads, chamber size, my head or a head from them, ect. I will call him and get some price figures.

As a side note I just finished installing the rear ford traction lock with a new set of 3.90 gears and should be able to seal it up, add rear fluid, hang the wheels and I will finally have a "Complete Roller SDRA Car", two months late but still on track for ANRA Opener in April 2012.

[Old Jimmy Six]

Above all invest in an aftermaket balancer like Rattler or other because the crank flexes at high rpm.

[bobw]

Old28, You didn't word anything wrong. I made the assumption that you didn't have the book. You've been talking to Kirby, you have the book and experienced Chevy 6 guys have been posting valuable information. This thread is very helpful engine-wise.
All that, and we get to watch you build the car.
I ordered Volume 2 and will let you know how it compares to Volume 1, second edition.

[Old28]

Old Jimmy Six - I am prone to "Fluidamper" as I have used then on all my SB & BB Chevy race motor with good results. Will a SBC 6.25 or 7.25 Internal balance work? I have never ran a six cylinder so I have no idea on the type and size that would work best. I plan on running the motor in the 6500 RPM range.

bobw - Bob, I agree with you that there is a lot of good information and experience out their and this is why I started asking the questions in my build thread so all that read it could check it out. I wish I had some of the stuff on six cylinder motors from my thread on "RRR", there was some real good information on building motors. Please let me know about the book when you get it.

[Old Jimmy Six]

I run a 6.25 on my GMC but I have heard that the bigger the balancer the easier it is on the crank, just BS around the work bench, so I don't know if it is true.:confused:

[Old Jimmy Six]

I should add that I run my GMC to 6000 and have hit 6500:eek: before and the book I have for GMC motors says don't exceed 3000 rpm. I run a small block 6.25 in. Rattler. With only 4 mains it is pushing it and I am sure that the balancer has put a lot of life in the crank.

[mudflap261]

lets not carried away and build a 9 sec engine like one of our guys did ,now he has to slow it down.What we need at this stage of the game is more cars. I have been encouraging guys to build a car use a stock engine the first year.get used to a open wheel car .pick up afew tips. of course if you are a experienced racer you can skip that part.some guys are hesitate to build because they would be the only one in thearea .just remember we are like pioneers as such we are going to get some arrows in our ass.Keep up the good work Tom looking good

[Old28]

Old Jimmy Six - Ya 6000-6500 with a 4 mains 6 cylinder I would want a good balancer so the crank can live a little longer. I don't see any reason that I should not use a 7.25 balancer even though a 6.25 will work fine. I'll ask around some more before I start.

mudflap261 - Have no fear, If I wanted to run 8's and 9's I would have kept my 29 altered. All I want to do is build a motor that can run 11.50-12.00 and stay together all season. I like to ask a lot of questions and get back as much information as I can. This build is all about using a different style motor and car, learning how to get it to leave on 6" tires and not have to rebuild it after each race.

I think we have the word out on this coast that HA/GR & SDRA HAMBster's are alive, well and growing. At our ANRA races and with the cars in the Pacific Northwest anyone building a car will have a place to race and will likely find a car to run with.

Fast or slow it's all about having fun and making passes. ;)

[Old28]

Well it has been a good weekend of work on the car. I installed a new set of brake shoes, wheel cylinders and had the drums turned. This is a small Ford 8.8 rear end out of a 93 Mustang and only has 9" brake drums. I thought this was a good place to spend some cash to make sure the ride can stop during those all out 15 sec passes. ;) Installed a set of 3.90 gears in the traction lock setup. This rear end is about 50# lighter than the same 9" setup and I think it will hold up fine with the Powerglide. With my big --- in the seat I need all the weight reduction I can get.:)

Today is the day I have been looking forward to sence I hauled home the frame and 5 pieces in the back of the truck. The car is finaly a complete roller with steering, front end, rear end done and ready for the drive line phase. You have to build one of these to know how it feels to see it sitting on all four tires. :D I am a happy camper!!!!

[Old6rodder]

Excellent. Yeah, "roller" status is always a great feeling. Almost as good as the first fire-up. Vroom-vroomin's better now, too. :cool:

Now pick a picture for the picture & info thread, or I'll build a voodoo model of it and poke pins in it. You promised ...... :D

[Old28]

Old6rodder - Thanks Dick, hold the "pins", picture and information at 5:rolleyes:

[Old28]

Well you may have thought that after getting the car to a roller stage and a picture with information to (old6rodder) for his HA/GR & SDRA Photo Thread that as an old dude I needed a weeks rest and a few afternoon naps. The truth is I have been working every day on the car and have made some good progress, so where are the pictures you ask?:rolleyes:

Well it finally happened, my 9 year old "XP" computer has ran out of memory and will not even download pictures from my camera. It is so slow that it is a 20 min game just starting it up each day. The good/bad news is a new one will be here Wed so we should be back in the game, bad news is I could have used the money on the project. If all goes well I hope to have some pictures up this weekend.:D

[bobw]

Hurry up with the computer. The HA/GR forum is far too quiet lately.

[Old28]

bobw -- Well we got the computer up and running this afternoon and I think that 9 years with the old one was long enought. The new one is fast and downloaded my pictures from my camera in about a min, old one would not even download them. I say we because my friend set it up from his house in Camarillo and did all of it with an internet connection
between the two computers. It only took him 15 min to have it up and running with all my old data in place. :) I would have been weeks and still not right.

Well last week I got more of the chassis "Rattle Can" sprayed in preperation for dropping the motor/trans in place. The painting is working front to back. Ain't no high dollor job but it looks fine.

Try to get the engine/trans pictures on in a day or two.

[mudflap261]

well i consider rustoleum high dollar paint. We use walmarts very finests 99 cent paint. looking good keep up the fine work . does anyone know if the guy who bought Ron Goldens car ever ran it

[Old28]

mudflap261 - I don't think he has run it in the Southern CA area. He may have run it at Sacramento as he is from the Northern CA area. Anyone know more on the car?:confused:

Your right on the paint, I did not know I was using the high dollor stuff, at $1.89 a can this paint is like gold.:rolleyes:

[Old28]

Well I got all the pictures downloaded that I had on the camera so I am putting in a few that show the Motor & Trans in place. I have side stepped building the 250 motor for awhile and will run a Chevy 194 for the firt part of the 2012 season. Some of you will recognize the intake & radiator from (ThingyM) build thread. I purchased the motor that Dick had in his HA/GR a few months ago and dropped it in my car with a PG trans.

The motor is a stock 194" with a mild cam. I have installed a 3500 converter and a rebuilt powerglide. It will run my 2-94's on the same intake for the first few races. I really want to see what this "Baby Bolt" will do in my car before I build the bigger motor.

[64 DODGE 440]

Looking good Tom...Won't be long till you can make a pass out in front of your house!:p

[Old28]

64 DODGE 440 - Tom, that is a day I have been looking forward to sence I started in March.:D

I still have tons of small stuff to do so I think the "STREET TEST" is a few months away.;)

[bobw]

It looks outstanding. You're right, all those little tasks add up to lots of time spent. Still, I'm impressed with how fast you are building it. I sense excitement, motivation. Ain't it fun!

[Old28]

bobw - Ya you got that right, lots & lots of little things to keep my mind on the project and that light at the end of the strip. Thanks for the nice words on the build.

As I said in my first thread, I'm a "racer", more than a "builder". I have really missed making passes ever sence I sold my 28 NE-2 altered roadster 2 years ago. I just want to get back on the track and make some runs again. Don't matter if they are 11.50's or 15.0's, I will be having a good time and that is what it's all about.;)

Hope to get the last of the pictures on the thread Sunday.

[64 DODGE 440]

As I said in my first thread, I'm a "racer", more than a "builder". I have really missed making passes ever sence I sold my 28 NE-2 altered roadster 2 years ago. I just want to get back on the track and make some runs again. Don't matter if they are 11.50's or 15.0's, I will be having a good time and that is what it's all about.;)

Hope to get the last of the pictures on the thread Sunday.

Don't worry Tom, now you can say your a builder as well as a racer. People don't seem to understand the concept that it doesn't matter how fast or quick you go, it's all about the grins. My first pass down the strip was in 1962 at San Gabriel in a 1950 Studebaker Commander 4 door with a 244" flathead 6 through an automatic. 66 mph and an ET in the mid 20s. I still grin from that one.:D

[Old28]

64 DODGE 440 - Thanks Tom for the builder plug. I am happy at this time in life just to be able to spend time in the garage working on a fun project like this HAMBster. I think it will turn out just fine and maybe get someone thats sitting on the fence to jump in a build a HA/GR or SDRA car for our area. I still would like to see 15 HAMBster type cars at an ANRA race in Bakersfield in the next few years and I know Dick (Old6rodder) feels the same. Only time will tell.:)

[Old28]

Last week I got to work building the chassis mounts for the radiator, fuel tank and pump. I will run the small aluminum radiator that I got from Dick (ThingyM) and add an electric fan that I had from my 29 RPU build to help keep everthing cool. I want to be able to drive to the staging lane, race and be able to drive back to the pits.

I was going to mount the fuel tank on the x-member, but it did not look right and it was too high and blocked the air to the radiator. I moved it forward and lower in the chassis and I think it looks a lot cleaner. I got the pump and tank(2 gal) plumbed to the firewall area for the time being.
I know AN fittings & SS Flex Line are not period correct, but after racing Nostalgia cars for the last 35 years I have lots of parts and I am going to use them.

I am working on the floor supports, drive shaft 360 deg cover and the anti-rotation stops. Will get some pictures in a few days.

[Old28]

Well I got a little more done on the car in the last few days. Built a dual anti-rotation setup to hold the rearend in place after the KILLER 194" power house shears all eight 5/16" grade bolts that are holding it to the chassis, What is NHRA thinking, talk about overkill.:rolleyes:
If it keeps our local tech guys happy it was time well spent.

Got the 5" x 20" tube cut in half with my trusty 4" cut off wheel and set in place for a trial fitting. Looks like I will have 1/2" to 3/4" clearence all around. Hope to get the tabs welded on and the cover in place on Friday.

Next things on list are firewall, floor and shifter mount.

HAVE A GREAT TURKEY DAY & STAY SAFE

[Old6rodder]

Built a dual anti-rotation setup to hold the rearend in place after the KILLER 194" power house shears all eight 5/16" grade bolts that are holding it to the chassis, What is NHRA thinking, talk about overkill.:rolleyes:

Thinking? You give'em far too much credit. Try "paranoid flinch-reacting". :D

Looking good, Sir. :cool:

[ThingyM]

Tom... I think they are 7/16" bolts Not 5/16 holding the rearend in..But they all are correct, That is starting to look like one nice race car.. Glad you could use the parts..

[Four Banger]

LOL! Old 6, you whacked it right on the head! NHRA is NOT synonymous with rational thought.....
Old 28, that is one fine car you're building. And hey, NHRA is just looking out for ya. Those 194's are well known for being brutal......

[Old28]

ThingyM -- Ya Dick, 7/16 is correct, a slip of the keyboard. If that 194 can snap those bolts then I will stop building a 250/292 motor and and put some better rods in the "little bolt".;)

Four Banger -- Thanks for the kind words on the build, not to bad for a "Driver" wanting to be a "Builder". On that killer 194 between the rails, well (ThingyM) wornded me when I picked it up that the rear end might to be able to stand the brute force.;)

[Four Banger]

I probably should have updated my progress (or lack thereof) in that last post. I've steadily added to my parts pile, while taking care of several other projects. Life does get in the way. A change at work has brought me good fortune, at least financialy, so it looks as if it's about time to get going, here! The design is finished, and the parts are 99 percent present. I guess this thing will have to be called an SDRA car, since although the trans will be a stick shift, I'm stuck using my 194 Chevy untill the right vintage power falls into my lap. Details.....Anyway, a trip to the store for a cut off saw blade and some welding wire, and here we go! Happy Thanksgiving to everyone!!!

[Old28]

Four Banger -- All are welcome on my build thread and it's great talking racing & building. Glad to hear that life has taken a positive turn for you and that your going to get to building. :)

A 194 with a stick, sounds like a fun SDRA HAMBster.

LOT'S OF PICTURES while we can still see them.:D

[Four Banger]

This engine I have is somewhat a mystery. It was built YEARS ago for a six cylinder sprint car class we had here at the time. The story is, it has 265 V8 pistons. If that is a fact, it would have been bored.190.....That sounds like a hell of a lot of meat off the 194 cylinder wall. That makes it an actual 215 cubes, and coincidentaly Pontiac made a 215 in 64 and 65. However, their blocks had PONTIAC cast into the side, and this thing is definately a Chevy block. I'll know as soon as I yank the head and look around. It does have a forged crank, which is 194 in origin. I'll use a truck flywheel to give it some extra snap off the line, and I have two Rochester Monojets that should work okay for the displacement, and the rpm I figure it will take. Whatever it ends up being, it's all I have, so there ya go! I hope to locate an older Chevy 261, or Jimmy 270 eventualy, but those engines are getting nigh next to impossible to find around here. The scrappers have just cleaned out the area, of the old stuff. I'm not getting concerned about the engine right now, however. The chassis is where this project is going to be really different.....Stay tuned!

[Old28]

Four Banger -- You need to start a build thread or add to an existing one with this information. It's nice to let all the HAMBster people see what your doing. I will be very interested in the exact bore that the engine is as .190 is way over what they say for this block.

Even if you got only a parts pile, no problem, let us see what you got.:D

[Old6rodder]

Four Banger -- You need to start a build thread or add to an existing one with this information. It's nice to let all the HAMBster people see what your doing. I will be very interested in the exact bore that the engine is as .190 is way over what they say for this block.

Even if you got only a parts pile, no problem, let us see what you got.:D

x2 :cool:

[Four Banger]

Well.......Here's the deal. I have made the decision to do this build thread backwards. The car I've designed is so different from everything yet built, that I don't want to tip my hand just yet! Even pics of some of my parts will doubtless reveal my sinister plan. And no, I'm not "scamming" the rules. This thing is not only clearly, without opinion, within the rules, but also in "The Spirit of the Bug". Oh boy,howdy, is it in the spirit of the bug!!! I'll post pics of the finished car, then show the build in progress so everyone can see the details. Eeeee! I'm giddy as a school girl just thinking about this!!!! I haven't had this much fun since I played in the 18 piece marching kazoo band at the George G. Papoon inaugural ball in 1976!

[Old6rodder]

Side by side middie bangers? :confused:

You gotta just know that teaser's gonna get some wild guesses. :rolleyes:

Hope you have the equanimity to withstand the onslaught. :D


Looking forward (patiently) to the unveiling. :cool:

[Four Banger]

Side by side mid engine bangers? I wish I had thought of that!!!! Nope. One little Chevy six....that's all. First guess....WRONG! Oh, this is getting more fun all the time!

[bobw]

A Kenny Ellis type 3 wheeler with sidwinder engine position, laid flat. Did I win???

Tom, your digger just keeps looking better & better.

You mentioned an anti-rotation device. Were you speaking of the arrangement you have by the pinion? I have an old 2008 rulebook and don't see anything about that. Can you tell me what is needed?

[Four Banger]

Bob, I like the way you think. I'll bet you and I could build something really odd after drinking a couple too many adult beverages! Sorry....WRONG ! I did give a lot of thought to a sidewinder set up, but the chassis would need to be about four feet wide to accomodate the engine and clutch.....

[superbinder]

How about a corvair????????????

[Old28]

Four Banger -- You defenently need to start your ouw build thread as with everyone on the HAMB takeing a shot at what you are going to build I won't have a place to put my stuff.:D

OK just a build thread without any pictures, that will work and my guess is over 100 shots by Christmas.;)

Now get with it, as my guess is a front wheel drive SDRA HAMBster.:confused:

bobw -- By the book for 11.50 & slower you do not need one, but because we are building the driver area by the 10.0 & slower our local tech guys like to see something that will stop the rear end from rotating if all the bolts holding the rear end shear at the same time.:D It an't going to happen. A lot has to do with the driveshaft or coupler running under your seat.

The truth is that you really only need an anti-rotation device on a car that has a spring type rear setup. But I have found after racing in this ares for 35+ years that if that's what tech likes your better off to put it in and not make an issue of it. Some guys like to fight the system, me, I want to race not argue about the rules, but that's just me.:rolleyes:

[Four Banger]

I'd LOVE to use a Corvair! However, even though they do meet the rules guidelines for year model, the rules specify INLINE engines if they are overhead valve. I suppose the rules don't specify how MANY "lines" of cylinders, but here I would subject myself to accusations of "Scamming" the rules. As I have mentioned before (ad nauseum), I have no issues with this set of rules, other than they are very poorly written. If I asked 10 racers "Can I legaly run a Corvair?" some would say "sure no prob" while others would bitch loudly "Absolutely NOT!" I'm not gonna dive into that ball of snakes....again. So....WRONG! Nope, one Chevy inline overhead valve six!

[Old28]

Well got the drive shaft cover done today and need to get into car tomorrow and get the measurements for were to place the front loop.
Got to make sure that I have the 3" open space in front of my helmit as they have taged a few cars at our track for not having the 3" from your helmit face to the front bar face.

Next week it's floor and firewall.

[Four Banger]

Old 28, I am sorry as heck. I'n my exuberance I didn't stop to think about stepping all over your thread. I know better than this, too. This thing just sorta grew legs suddenly. Please everyone who wishes to comment or speculate on my project, hold your comments from this thread. Again, my apologies for the hijacking. I didn't even know that loaded pistol was in my bag when I got on the plane! Really.....

[K. Thornton]

N


Sent from my iPhone using TJJ

[Old28]

Four Banger -- ALL IS FINE, Apologies not needed. This HA/GR & SDRA HAMBster thing spreads wings fast and takes you back to a time when drag racing was fun.:D
I sent you a PM, check it out.

K Thornton -- Did not get your message from your phone, only "n"

[ThingyM]

Now this is starting to sound like fun again, I still have my chassis, Now if I could just get my Flathead here from Kansas, I'd be in good shape...

[Old28]

ThingyM -- Well Dick, As much as I would like to take a quick road trip it would cost us twice what the shipper wants. Bite the bullet and get it out here so you can get it in for the April Opener. We are going to have some fun this next year. I will work on the car most all of next week and then I go in on Dec 6.

[ThingyM]

Yea I know, But the cost will sure take a bite out of the $$$ that I have set aside to put the necessary "Go Fast" parts on the little Ford..Maybe I could ride my bicycle and pull the wagon back there and pick it up...BWHahahaha

[Old28]

ThingyM -- Well Dick that is an option and with that new knee you should be able to make it in record time.:D

Got to get it here, some way, some how.:rolleyes: HA/GR FH/4 Speed or SDRA FH/C4. What fun we will have. Keep it nice, I know which way you are leaning.;)

OK I've got a plan, I'll send money for radiator to start the "SHIPPING FUND" and then A driveshaft will add more, in no time you can make that call and it will be CA bound.:p

Tom

[64 DODGE 440]

Yea I know, But the cost will sure take a bite out of the $$$ that I have set aside to put the necessary "Go Fast" parts on the little Ford..Maybe I could ride my bicycle and pull the wagon back there and pick it up...BWHahahaha

Put a thread on the main board, "Looking for transport". You could find someone heading this way that would haul it for you.

[Old28]

Well with motor/trans/shaft cover/sub floor braceing and steering in place it was time to try the seating out again and see how much space all that stuff takes up. Well fat boy me still fits in the car and it is pretty comfortable for a dragster/altered.:D One thing that has to be changed is the 13.5" steering wheel needs to be replaced so I will have more room around my knees. I order a 8.5" one today.

While in the car we made some measurements on were the helmet bars will go and set a temp front loop to see if it will give me the 3" clearence that I need front of bar to front of helmet. Looks like 4" so I think I will move it back a little to make it better to get in & out of the car. I am going to play around with the location a little, I want it to look right too.

[mudflap261]

looks fast to me

[64 DODGE 440]

Looks like you are a builder to me. At this rate you should be making a pass out front of your house soon.

[Old28]

mudflap261 - Thanks Larry, I don't know how fast it will be with my "wide body" in the seat, I just want to respectable and have some fun. I will PM you some stuff on the rules later this week.

64 DODGE 440 - Tom, With the amount of law enforcement living around me I may have to haul it out to an orchard road to test it out. I will say that this building thing is starting to come around, but I still have a lot to learn.

[Joe Hamby]

Hi Old28, sometimes it is a small world, the only time that I drove mine on the street, it was miles away from where mudflap261 lives, but a friend of his saw me and told Larry about it. That was Feb, 24, 2007. But it was fun anyway and just after I did a police car went by.

[Four Banger]

Tom, I think you may be a wee bit modest. If you're a better driver than builder, you must be some kinda driver! Your car is beautiful...just really nice. Hey, I pulled the head and pan on my engine, and it is a .060 over 194, with some kind of domed pistons. I'm guessing maybe Jahns, given the era when it was built. Nice little engine. Polished rods, knife edged crank, etc. Still won't breath for shit, with that small chamber and little valves, but it should be durable enough.http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/images/icons/icon10.gif

[CrkInsp]

Four Banger- How about a pic of the pistons, and the rest of the goodies you discovered.

[Old28]

Four Banger -- Now that we know what your building, junk the "backward build thread" and start a thread so we can see the parts like (CrkInsp) was asking for. I for one am glad to hear that it is a .060 over 194 and would like to see the pistons and rods.:confused:

But it needs to be in a build thread so all the guys and gals can get some information. Not everyone reads my build thread.:rolleyes:

Know for this builder/driver stuff, thanks for the good word on the way the car looks and is comeing togeather, I like my race cars to look nice, always have, that's just me. I consider myself a fun loving, maybe above average sportman driver.:p This building thing is a lot harder than it looks in the other guys build threads, but I'm haveing fun and that's what it all about.

Joe Hamby -- After I am done would be a good time to meet the law, but I am thinking with my luck, he will be at the finish line. Takeing the HAMBster out to the orchard for a pass or two will bring back memory of races on the lemon orchard roads in Ventura, CA back in the early 60's. not real bright, but we had a lot of fun. Here I am 52 years later still having the same good times, talk about a slow learner!:D

[mudflap261]

Tom i dont think you can be classified as a slow learner at 52 maybe semi slow learner, A slow learner would be someone like my self who is 74 soon to 75 I hope

[Old28]

mudflap261 -- Larry, I wish I was 52 again, Me and my wife would still be running our N/E-1 dradster. 502 BBC B&I on alcohol, built to run a 7.50 index, best pass off index was a 7.02@199 by my wife Dixie in AZ. The picture is of Dixie on the top end at Bakersfield, CA.

We are both at the "semi mature" age of 62.

[64 DODGE 440]

mudflap261 -- Larry, I wish I was 52 again, Me and my wife would still be running our N/E-1 dradster. 502 BBC B&I on alcohol, built to run a 7.50 index, best pass off index was a 7.02@199 by my wife Dixie in AZ. The picture is of Dixie on the top end at Bakersfield, CA.

We are both at the "semi mature" age of 62.

Good looking rail Tom. Are you going to paint the SDRA car like that?:D

[Old28]

64 DODGE 440 -- Tom, that car was the best build & looking dragster I have ever owned over my 35+ racing years. We ran the car for two years in bare aluminum untill it was painted and lettered by two friends of Brendan Murry from the S.F.Bay area. I sold the car to Jerry Beach in the late 90's and he runs it in the 7.0 class. Chassis and body were hand built by Fred at Race Tec, in Oxnard, CA.

I was going to paint the car some what like you see it, but because the SDRA car will only have shorty body panels from the firewall back it would not look as long as that style makes a car look.

We are leaning more to the old midget stright flame style, but that is a ways down the road.

[64 DODGE 440]

64 DODGE 440 -- Tom, that car was the best build & looking dragster I have ever owned over my 35+ racing years. We ran the car for two years in bare aluminum untill it was painted and lettered by two friends of Brendan Murry from the S.F.Bay area. I sold the car to Jerry Beach in the late 90's and he runs it in the 7.0 class. Chassis and body were hand built by Fred at Race Tec, in Oxnard, CA.

I was going to paint the car some what like you see it, but because the SDRA car will only have shorty body panels from the firewall back it would not look as long as that style makes a car look.

We are leaning more to the old midget stright flame style, but that is a ways down the road.

Long cool winter nights are good for designing paint jobs, (mechanical stuff too), and if you are like me you will probably change directions several times before it happens. :D

I think we are into our 7th or 8th paint scheme so far and I haven't even put a pencil to paper on it. I just keep looking at pictures of old race cars and combining the bits I like best. We'll probably just keep it simple with accent pin stripes and lettering, but that's today. :p

[mudflap261]

Ok Tom so you are a slow learner. Looks like you might have problem with a bride who likes to go 200 shes going to want one these too. So when are you going to start your second car. L J

[Old28]

No there an't going to be another car, she will be the first to tell you that after the N/E-1 car her 15 year racing stint is over. Unlike me she only wants to go faster & faster. Put another way "more dollors/more dollors". The old retirement says slower is better.;)

Also like a lot of past drivers she is not a good spectator. She might come a see me run the car the first time, but that's a maybe. :rolleyes:

[Old28]

Well for all that read my build thread, I will off the board for a week or so.
I am going in for Prostate surgery on Tuesday, so no working on the car for awhile. Hope to be back at it shortly.

Thanks and good building to all you HAMBsters, Tom

[mudflap261]

Tom 3 of the sdra guys have had that procedure all sucessful we will say a prayer for you best of luck to you L J

[bobw]

I know a few guys that have had that surgery. All went well. Heal fast. You can still post while recovering. Like to hear some racing stories and pics of your other race cars. No one will complain if it gets off topic. The HA/GR Forum is unknown to most of the HAMBers.

[64 DODGE 440]

We'll be keeping you in our thoughts Tom. Heal fast!

[Old28]

Larry, Bob & Tom -- Thanks for the good thoughts and I am sure I will be back building in a short time. I got a car to finish.;)

[Old Jimmy Six]

I had three back surgerys and a heart attack and I'm still here so get 'er done and come back even stronger.

[ThingyM]

Good luck tomarrow Tom... Will be thinking about ya.. And just do what the DRs say, you'll be fine..

[Four Banger]

Hang in there, Tom. You'll be in our thoughts. Check your private messages before you head off to the sawbones tomorrow!:D

[Old28]

Roy, Dick, Alan -- Thanks for the good wishes, should be out Fri Morning.

[nexxussian]

Well for all that read my build thread, I will off the board for a week or so.
I am going in for Prostate surgery on Tuesday, so no working on the car for awhile. Hope to be back at it shortly.

Thanks and good building to all you HAMBsters, Tom

Damn, how did I miss this.

Take care, hope they are too.

[ThingyM]

ANYBODY HEARD FROM TOM YET...I tride to call him, But no answer. Hope all is well...

[mudflap261]

I pm him 2days ago no reply

[bobw]

Tom is overdue. Not his style.

[ThingyM]

I'm starting to get a little worried. Still no one answers on his phone...

[Old28]

To all the great HAMBster's out three Thank You For Caring.:):)

I just got home Tuesday night late and this is the first time I have even turned on my computer. The operation went well but I had some kidney problems that keep me in for 4 extra days. The recovery will be 4-5 weeks and I need to walk, rest, not sit to long. I will get back on the board and thank each and all as soon as I can in a few more days.

THANKS AGAIN TO ALL "I AM ALMOST BACK":D

[64 DODGE 440]

Good to know you are home again Tom, follow the doctors orders and heal fast. We'll keep you in our thoughts.

[ThingyM]

Thanks for the phone call Tom.. You had us kinda worried.. Glad everything is looking up..Just do what the DRs say, And you'll be fine..

[bobw]

Whew! Welcome back, Tom.

[Old6rodder]

Glad to hear it, now finish the job right. :cool:


:confused: Four extra days, eh?
'Kay, s'what improvements didja have'em do while you was in there?
Steadier nerves? Quicker reactions? More lead in the foot?
C'mon, 'fess up. ;)

[nexxussian]

glad to hear it, now finish the job right. :cool:


:confused: Four extra days, eh?
'kay, s'what improvements didja have'em do while you was in there?
Steadier nerves? Quicker reactions? More lead in the foot?
C'mon, 'fess up. ;)

:rolleyes: :D

[Old28]

Old Jimmy Six -- ThingyM -- Four Banger -- bobw -- Nexxussian

Mudflap261 -- 64 DODGE 440 -- old6rodder

Well a big thank you for your concerns and I am glad to be out of the hospital. I will not be working on the car for 3-4 weeks as per "Doc" orders, but a little work that I am not able to do will be done by my good friend Danny V during my recovery. Hope to get the front roll bar and helmit bars in and a support under the seat to mount it.

Dick, it would take more than a few extra days in the Hospital to improve my reaction time, but you know I had a lot of time to think about racing while I was in there. Thought about a "Laser Reaction Device" implanted in the same hole they went through that works off the 3rd yellow, nothing fancy .010-.020, but Butchy gets all snippy when you try to advance the O/W Class.:D Anyway at the rates they charge it would have cost me $70,000 and still no guarantee I would win.

So I gess I will do it the same way everyone else does; boy is it going to be a hard learn.:rolleyes:

Anyone out there reading this thread you will not find a nicer group HA/GR & SDRA of caring people. Don't sit on the fence, get involved.

[OBFB HA/GR]

Glad things worked out OK Tom, take care and get her done.
Nigel.

[Old Jimmy Six]

Tom after spending many weeks this year and last recoverying from surgeons knives I know what you are going through. The waiting to get back is really hard on the nerves. Just do what the doctor says and don't jump in to fast because the set back can be worse than what you have just went through. Get well and come back energized. Roy

[Old28]

OBFB HA/GR -- Old Jimmy Six -- Nigel and Roy, thanks for the good word and support. I am going to stay right on the doctors recovery plan so I hopefully will be back to building in 3-4 weeks, but the old body will let me know when it is time.

[Old28]

Well can't work on the car so it is time to find a few parts.:D

Any of you SDRA guys have a Hurst Quarter Stick Shifter for PG that you would part with for the right price?

Also need a mechanical water temp gauge and a mechanical oil pressure gauge. Used is fine, no need for new ones.

[64 DODGE 440]

Well can't work on the car so it is time to find a few parts.:D

Any of you SDRA guys have a Hurst Quarter Stick Shifter for PG that you would part with for the right price?

Also need a mechanical water temp gauge and a mechanical oil pressure gauge. Used is fine, no need for new ones.

Sent you a PM on the oil pressure gauge.

[64 DODGE 440]

The Oil Pressure gauge is going in the mail this afternoon. It's an SW 100 lb max. Sorry, it's a little dirty, but it should clean up good. Merry Christmas! Heal fast.

[Old28]

Tom, Got both the PM's, Thanks for the gauge.:)

[64 DODGE 440]

Glad to help, that's what this thing is all about.

[OBFB HA/GR]

Hey Tom I need about another 100 Hp, what have you got laying around.

[64 DODGE 440]

Hey Tom I need about another 100 Hp, what have you got laying around.

Love to send it to you Nigel, but that would probably only leave me with about 20 HP to use in our car. :rolleyes:

[Old28]

64 Dodge 440 -- Tom, I got the pressure gauge the other day, looks like it will work out very nice. Thank you very much.

[64 DODGE 440]

64 Dodge 440 -- Tom, I got the pressure gauge the other day, looks like it will work out very nice. Thank you very much.

Glad to be able to help. God only knows how much support and volunteered parts have gone into our project. Good to be able to pay it forward a bit when I can. :D

[Old28]

Anyone got some old exhaust headers that they want to sell? I think to even make this baby 194 run I need to build some headers.

Looking for a used set of exhaust headers that are for the Chevy 194/230/250 6 cylinder motor. Need not be nice as I am going to cut them up to fit my SDRA dragster I am building. Cheap is good, what's out there?

The ones I am looking for are a pair (3 tubes to 1 collector).

Please PM me with price & shipping to 93312.

[Old Jimmy Six]

Tom if you can cut your own flanges then go to the website of Speedway and they have header kits for small block Chevies with u-bends so you can design your own. You will have two collectors and then you can buy a piece of straight pipe to make up for the lengths you will need. The kit sells for around a $100 and they are good people. If you take the exhaust gaskets to someone who has a mill they could knock out a set of flanges quick. I had a set made and while he was at I had him make a set that I gave to Ron Golden.

[Old28]

Old Jimmy Six -- Ya Roy, I have seen those kits in Speedway Motor. I am going to check with Hells Gate Hot Rods as they sell the pair of flanges and I can get them with the stubs welded in.

[Old28]

I have a question for the SDRA guys. Your rules call for a (Min 52" track width) on the rear of the SDRA cars.

How and where do you take this measurement?:confused:

Some groups take it from outside/outside of the rear tires, others from center to center and some from inside/inside of rear tire. It don't matter about how it's done, only need to know how you guys call it.:D

As a foot note, I am getting better each day. Old guys like me take a lot longer to heal. My Prostate surgery was very hard and took about 5 hours because of other problems in the area. The Dr said it may be 2-3 months before I am back to my old self. Some close friends might say that was a marginal area at best. I have my fingers crossed that I will be ready for our 2012 ANRA Opener the end of April.;)

[bobw]

We older folks aren't as good at cell regeneration compared to when we were young. But it sounds like you are coming along just fine. My wife's bunion surgery is still causing me pain.

Heal as fast as you can and get that thing to the April Meet.

[CrkInsp]

Old28
We measure that at the center of the tire.
You can use the newer front wheel drive wheels to get close.

[Old28]

bobw -- Ya Bob, the car will be ready for the April race, but the driver is still in question. I may have to find a shoe for the first race.;) You know what they say, Drivers are a dime a dozen.:D In this economy it shouldn't cost that much.

CrkInsp -- Thanks for the reply Jr, That is how I have always done it. My setup is 53" now.

[Old28]

Just a note to make sure anyone looking for a new "never raced" complete rolling chassis HA/GR should check out Skip Pipes ad in the "Cars For Sale" section - New HA/GR or SDRA $4,000 and the motor in the "Parts For Sale" section - 270” Turn-Key Engine with 4-Speed $4,000

He builds top notch rides, may want to check this car and motor out before you start building one.

Skip hope you don't mind me posting this on my thread. Just trying to increase the car count of the HAMBster's.;)

[Skip Pipes]

Hi Tom,
I’m flattered that you did, and I really appreciate it.
I’d love to run the Dragster, but if I do I’ll never finish my Bonneville roadster.
Someone could drop in an inexpensive 250/292 with a simple PG in the car it would be a lot of fun.
Thanks again,
Skip Pipes

[Old28]

Well this has been a good week for therapy for me as I was able to pickup the car from my good buddy Danny V how has been doing some work on the car while I am recovering from surgery. I will never be able to thank him enough for what he has done for me.:)

The front cage section, helmet bars, brake peddle setup and the body panels were all done by him. I had started fabricating both the floor plates and the firewall before my surgery and need to finish them along with building the trans cover. I have been collecting a lot of stuff in the past 3 months and it should keep me busy for a while.:rolleyes:

Working on the car today has been the best therapy I have had in many months, glad to have the car home.:D

Just a few pictures of the work that was done, more later.

[ThingyM]

Darn Tom, That is going to be one fine looking car.. Danny did a great job..

[Old28]

ThingyM -- Ya Dick, I am real pleased on how the cage came out and I have a good 3" clearance on the front with my helmet that should keep tech guys happy. It takes racers like you and Danny to help a old "Driver" try to be a "Builder", but I like the direction the car is going. The body panels and the brake setup look real nice.

I picked up a jeep drive shaft that has 1310 ends that will work out good to cut down. I will just use 1310 spicier unit for the powerglide end and a 1310/1350 for the rear on my 8.8 housing. I need to get the new rear yoke so I can get a measurement.

I stand by what I said above, today working on the car (cleaning only) was the best day I have had sence my operation. :):):)

[Old28]

ThingyM -- Dick put a 300 Ford with a C4, that should be 11.50 - 12.00 second car with out a lot of high dollar parts.

I just got off the phone with a Salt Flat Racer that lives hear in Bakersfield and he is going to build a GMC 302 SDRA car to run with us, then slip a body on it and run at the flats. Sure would be fun to have 3-4 SDRA cars at an ANRA meet.

I do agree with (old6) that ether type car (HA/GR & SDRA) is good for the class.

I ordered a new rear yoke for the 8.8 rear end. When I get It and the finish length for the driveshaft I will give you a call.

[34PEECUP]

Getting started on the new bville car an think it will work to run with you guys. Posting photo of the ol bonneville car

[Agrafagr]

I take buy priligy (http://priligy.me/) pill and it works as expected but after sexual intercourse I sometimes feel muscle pain in the back and fatigue. I do not know if this is because I work like a stud or it is a side effect. Anyway I am lucky that I gave it a try. celebrex (http://celebrexpill.com/)

[Old28]

34PEECUP -- Ron, That was one nice flats coupe.;)

Be sure to start a build thread when you start the new car and include lots of pictures. This might be the first combination SDRA / SALT FLAT car.:) Stop by when you have a chance.

[ThingyM]

Since I already have a couple of C-4s,, I went and got me a torque converter from a 2300 pinto. Will have Art Carr check it out for me..Now I'm looking for a new motor. Also might install an 8" Ford rearend... Edit::: A guy just gave me a Jr.Dragster chute.. Are they legal to have on your car in the SDRA.?? I think it would be a nice safety feature.. If not, Thats OK too...

[CrkInsp]

The guys in Tulsa have a loonngg shut down area so we haven't had a need for a chute.
We don't want to add anything that will catch the eye of NHRA.

[Old28]

ThingyM -- Dick are you going to put in a 300 Ford?:D:D I would love seeing one running in ANRA. I got the rest of the chassis painted and started work on the battery box, shut off switch and rear tail light. I'll post some pictures tomorrow.

CrkInsp -- I know what you mean about NHRA in general. I will say that our local tech crew at Famosa Raceway in Bakersfield is a better than average group and have worked well with these new cars. Others may not feel the same, but I have been racing there sence 1970 and I have no complants.;)

[Skip Pipes]

Hi Dick,

Something like this?
Yes it's real! :D

Skip Pipes

[ThingyM]

Tom... YEP...
Skip... YEP... I just thought it would be nice, If you just happen to get sideways, Pull it... Also, I'm thinking about building an up dated chassis...

[bobw]

Tom, cool that your neighbor is building a dual purpose machine.

Thingy, Glad to see you are thinking about getting back in the game.:) Building a chassis is one of the most fun parts of the deal. Might bend up another one myself...
You want to be going fast enough that the chute doesn't just fall on the ground.:eek: