How 'bout a tech post on moulding body panels????

[MercMan1951]

I intend to mould the lower rear quarters of my Merc to the rest of the quarters, but I have never attempted this...yet... (for you non-Merc types, the 49-51 Mercs have 2 piece rear quarter panels, the lower section was bolted on at the factory, and most people just weld them up solid more like cars that came after their time.)

I have a few ideas about what the best way to go is, with regards to keeping warping to a minimum and keeping a razor-straight body line, but if anyone else out there has done this, I'd like some info (and preferably pics) for ideas. I have another few weeks worth of work before I can permanently affix my quarters to my body. I'm sure I'm not alone in this venture...anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

[mikes51]

I wouldn't mind hearing your ideas.

First of all I removed mine and fixed all that rust behind them. Bolted them back on, welded the gap, and finished with filler.

Someone else I know didn't weld them at all. He kept them removable and used some body shop caulking (flexible). He says it hasn't cracked yet.

[old beet]

A friend of mine ,removed rust, primed Then bolted his Q panels on. He ran a full bead of seam sealer, painted the car. Been that way for several years, not a sign of a crack, don't know if hes just lucky or because he does mostly fair weather driving..........OLDBEET

[MercMan1951]

Nahhhh on the caulking...I have used it many times at the shop, and with the temp extremes here in MI, after about 2 years, it cracks. I don't care how good your surface prep is. Seems like a cheap way out for someone who wouldn't know any better. I don't want to half-ass this.

I was planning one of several ways...

1) Weld the gap (mig), grind my ass off on the excess, and fill. Then sand my balls off.

2) Bend up some angle (out of 18 gauge), put it in the seam and weld top and bottom. Grind. Fill. Sand my balls off.

3) Weld up from back and underneath, fill seam with fiberglas then regular filler, and...sand my balls off.

4) Weld up from underneath and behind, Henrob the seam with some rod, fill...and then...sand may balls off.

Either way, I'm sure I'll have to fill/sand/fill/sand/primer/sand/fill/sand/primer/fill/sand my balls off. Which is what I don't like doing. (It's amazing I lasted 6 years in a body shop...) If anyone out there has a better way (short of Lead or paying someone else to do it right, I'd like to hear.)

Whan I finally attempt this, I'll take pics and post them in the Tech O' Matic...

MercMan

[MercMan1951]

OLDBEET:

I went back and found a spec sheet for 3M's caulk temp ratings...they SAY "product is suitable for use...
between -10 and 130 degees"...by all rights, this would work. But I have seen that it doesn't hold well here in visible areas. Do you know what kind of body caulk you friend used?

My main problem is that some of my mouting points are gone. Some of the lip on the stationary quarter is gone, as in, rust ate them. I don't have nice quarters and a nice body to work with. I'd bolt them back on and leave them if that were the case. I think I HAVE to weld them at this point. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif Rather than spending the time rebuilding the mount holes in them, I think my time would be better spent welding them in place like Ford should have done in the first place. More ideas? (Keep them coming!) http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[RileyRacing]

put bread on them, then let it sit a few weeks... they'll get molded.

what was the question? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I don't think the seam sealer will hold up here, cause the roads are so bad, that car'll bend and flex and pop. Why not weld and grind... take your time tho... don't wanna warp them. maybe a couple inches a night. You'll have it done by summer then http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Always your helpful buddy,

Jay http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[MercMan1951]

Geeze, thanx Jay. Appreciate it. Hey, I have a better idea, how about I weld them, spread the 'dough', and YOU come over and sand every night until summer, hmmm? At least you can say you FINISHED A PROJECT!!!!! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Tinbender]

Weld,grind and fill. MIG, or gas depending on you skill with either. I gas weld when I have access to both sides, and can hammer weld. I'll mig if I can't hammer weld. Either way, I wouldn't use fiberglass in any form.
BTW I've been using Duramix 2 part seam sealer for years now. The stuff is great. I fabed up a fire wall, and used it to "mold" a 90 degree seam. It's been painted for 3 or 4 years, no sign of cracking. I still wouldn't use it to mold an exterior body panel, but as a seam sealer, it can't be beat.

[RileyRacing]

I finished one. Sorta. The Chrysler at least moves now, albeit a little oil leak, so there. If you lived on the right side of town (west side) I WOULD be over to sand every nite till summer. Or at least sand for awhile and drink free beer http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

When ya gonna start welding, or, more important, buy more beer?

Jay

[MercMan1951]

Thanks, Tin...I'll keep it in mind...I'll have to see if the local Painter's Supply even carries it.

[mikes51]

If you have metal missing, you sure don't have the strength of that bolted joint to help you. You might want to think about that Hirohata Merc type detail where the dog leg in the door is eliminated. Then that entire remaining crease/quarter panel joint is relocated higher on your main body quarter panel. You would be working above the rusted out areas (hopefully).

[MercMan1951]

Jay,

I have given up beer during the week, so that's on you...I have been welding my ass off on the rockers...if you're so inclined, you'd finish them for me, and I could belittle you on how much your welds suck...or are better than mine...what do I know.

You're right about the Chrysler, but for purposes of this board, I didn't think it counted. Did you see Tinbender's post? Ever hear of that stuff by us?

[Ron]

Here are some pix of a Chevy that he molded the fenders. He usde formed sheet metal I think the way you were talking about.

Micke's Chevy (http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/pyrocars/album?.dir=/worldofwheels&.src=ph&store=&prodid=&.done=http%3a//photos.yahoo.com/pyrocars)

[MercMan1951]

mikes51...the qtr's are not THAT far gone, only a section about 18" in the middle, and the lower edges by the rear...I thought about doing a "fade away" body line, but if I do it in the Barris style, I get into reworking the door lines also...not what I had planned...for now...

[RileyRacing]

not the stuff he's talking about, but we do use a 3m two part at work, I don't think it's that stuff.

Tin, is that 2 gray parts? mixed 3:2 or something like that?

Yeah, I don't drink that much either during the week. When Buddy pointed to the Bud truck and said "dada beer" that did it...

Ps you know my welds ROCK!!!!! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif As long as their migs, I haven't arc welded in 5 years or more... eeek!

Jay

[MercMan1951]

Thanks for the pics!

[MercMan1951]

[ QUOTE ]


Ps you know my welds ROCK!!!!! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif As long as their migs, I haven't arc welded in 5 years or more... eeek!

[/ QUOTE ]

I know your welds...they aren't any better than mine! Unless you're saying mine ROCK, so, then I guess you could do them up then, huh? All by your lonesome...

Keep Buddy away from the devil's elixor!

[RileyRacing]

Well, either you were really liberal with the body filler and K200 on the Chevelle, or you weld better than you think... but still nowhere near as good as me http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Jay

[MercMan1951]

HA HA HA HA....HA HA HA HA HA...ok. I'm not taking up any more bandwitdth with this nonsense. PM me or call and we'll have it out...

...and...I didn't use too much putty in the 'velle. The guy got a good deal.

[MercMan1951]

Holy grind-job! That's ARTWORK!

[Tinbender]

3M just bought Duramix. It comes in a dual cartrige. Takes a 40.00 gun to use it. It mixes in a mixing tube as you gun it out. Fusor also makes some. It's not cheap, but it's good shit!

[MercMan1951]

Thanks, Tin. I know what you're talking about now. We had that gun at the shop. Used it on fiberglas shit...two part epoxies...cool.

[MercMan1951]

bttt

[TheFrenZ]

Anybody else ? Share your experiences please.

[pimpin paint]

Hey,

Trying to fill over rotten, rusted or bad metal is just a waste of your time.
The rust will continue to work its evil deeds below the surface of your
"gee-wizz" calking and fillers (remember, rust don't ever take a day off)
and will come back. It usually waits until ya have a good and expensive
coat of paint over it, though. Why not spent the time now to make sure
that the metal you're going to bolt or weld those quarters to is sound.

Once ya have solved the rust issue ya can fill the gap between the two
quarter panels with welding rod of the O.D. that will best fit that gap. If
you take your time and bend that wire carefully, you will save yourself
alot of work later. Tack that rod, first at each end of the quarter panel,
than in the middle, than every 6-12" along that gap. When thats done
you can grind the seam flush or just below the surface of the adjoining
panels. the idea is to have metal to metal contact in this gap,Not metal-
filler, metal. If you go slow and work at doing a clean job with the fittin
and weldin, you'll save your self a shit load of time fillin'n' sandin, fillin'n
sandin etc.

To mould an area where there is a smooth radius between panel flanges,
you can sometimes save your self alot of time fillin and sandin by using
split EMT (electrical metal tubing) split length wise with a saw-zall, jig
saw or hack saw. Pie cuts, into the sides of the tubing, will allow it to
be bent to shape as needed. The idea, again is less filler, more metal
between moulded panels for a stronger job that will out last just filler
and tack welds.