What should I build?

[Johnny Sparkle]

Okay, I have a very minor dilemma. I am getting ready to build my first rod, and I am not sure what I should build first. I bought a nice 27 T sedan that came with an extra body with no doors. I figure the extra body and the Model A bed that I have have may make a nice little rat rod RPU. The reason I am asking is I don't know how to weld yet, and I don't want to screw a nice T body up yet. And I figure if I can sell it, it would bring a little money for the good car.

Basically what I am asking is, should I just jump right into my main project or should I try to hone my skills on something a little more expendable first?

[Stovebolt]

I'd check out the roadster web site and look in the fibreglass venders section. I know theres someone making T doors.

Get a set of 'glass doors, make up the body and rough together a car and then sell it.

You'll get the experience of building a car, increase your knowledge and then make some $ at the end of the day for your good car.

Read a lot of books and pick a theme to build either car to, then stick to it.

some-one out there will buy the frst car

My $0.02

[Johnny Sparkle]

Well, the back panel is missing too. It's the body in the background actually. I forgot to mention that. I figured I could shorten it and weld the body straight to the cowl, chop the top off, and put the bed I have on the back.

[Johnny Sparkle]

I just don't want to bite off more than I can chew on something that is just intended to be a learning tool.

[Stovebolt]

Can someone photoshop the front tudor into the idea that I't has for the spare body??? Hatch, boris....??

[Johnny Sparkle]

I was thinking something like this.

[Tim]

well, i think im with every one else, your going to have to learn to weld sooner or later with a rod project of anysort. learn on the extra car and then sell it.

use it as a learning tool

good luck

like the rpu idea

tim

[MrGasser]

Hey man, PM'd ya...

[Fat Hack]

I'd suggest building something relatively simple to start with. Keep it very basic...there will still be PLENTY of work to do, and lots of things to learn along the way!

Got a frame? If not, I'd suggest finding a Model A frame to build on...fairly cheap and easy to locate, and more sturdy than an older T frame. (Although an aftermarket kit T frame will work, too.)

From there, I'd locate a used front axle and locate it on a dropped spring with split wishbones...keeping it simple and cheap. An 8" Ford axle out back on a buggy spring with locating bars much like the fronts will get you rolling.

To keep it bucks down, go with whatever cheap semi-modern (70s era or early 80s) motor and tranny you can locate cheap or free in your area. Anything from a 305 Chevy to a 307 Olds, 302 Ford, 318 Mopar, etc. Try to get a motor and tranny as one purchase...even if it means buying a $100 'donor car' to strip. You will find lots of little parts to use off of the donor vehicle as you go...making it a very worthwhile purchase and a cost-saving strategy in the long run!

Now you'll have a rolling chassis with a motor and tranny mounted in it. Place your body on the chassis and figure out where it has to sit. You may want to hold off actually mounting it until you have your pedals and brake lines, driveshaft and other incidentals in place, but that's up to you.

Wiring the car can be as simple or as difficult as you choose to make it. Keep it simple...engine wiring and lights being the most important here!

Finishing the car off will involve lots of little projects that will give you valuable experience and help you grasp what is involved in going from a body on the ground to a complete, driving vehicle! You'll need to address steering, interior, glass, cooling and other issues as you finsish the car up and ready it for that first test drive!

Notice how I didn't say anything at all about custom body mods? You have TWO bodies, so I'd just build the first one as I've outlined here...a low-buck Tall T sedan. (Believe me, you won't be lacking work to do!) The feeling of accomplishment that will come from firing up the finished product and cruising it through your 'hood will be incredible...and you can sell the completed car off for enough money to really go to town on the SECOND one...armed with the experience of having taken your first, "practice rod" all the way through the stages of car building!

Just a suggestion, but that's what I'd do!!

[CTFuzz]

Learning to weld isn't such a big deal. Get a good welder,ask for scrap metal from the local metal fab shop and spend a few days messin' around. I love T.I.G. welding BUT get a good M.I.G. welder, it's much easer and faster to learn with. Remember, you can always cut and grind.........I say go for it!!

CT.

[Kevin Lee]

First thing I did was build a cart for my welder. Then I built some goofy jigs and bracketry I needed for other projects (bicycle stuff) I had around. I wouldn't make a car - even a "spare" - my very first project to learn on.

[DrJ]

You think you can build a quick car just to sell for a profit?
Unless you're just talking about an un-finished roller, you'll probably come out $$$ ahead just selling off the body as is. Definitely come out time ahead. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

[Roothawg]

I was looking at building a A pickup using parts that are being repopped. Just about everything you need is available after market. If it were me, which it is not, I would build the T first. Leave the bed in the rafters til you find a good cowl and doors for the A.

I think you can still buy the rear panel new and I would make my own doors. I don't know your skill level but I bt you could get some help right here on this board.
Ron is in Indiana but I don't know what part of the state... He's a metal guru.

[du$ty]

you know your limits...do you think you can do it?.i learned how to weld on my first ground up car.then i tore it down to shit...and well ill tell you this spring.id say if thats what you want a lil truck or modified....cut it up.

[Johnny Sparkle]

I think I could do it, I'm just not sure if I should build something with a little less fabrication first. I already have a relatively complete Model A frame for the complete T, and I have a line on a chassis with a suicide setup for the extra body.

Maybe I should just get my worthless butt out in the garage and quit whining.

[Smokin Joe]

The most important thing you'll learn is that all it takes is the guts to do it. It's getting over the fear thats the hard part. Kinda like your first date.

[hatch]

Here's the first and major "cut and weld" step. No matter what you do, you will need to learn how to weld. My advice is to buy a good quality mig and learn that first....take a junior college night course in welding and build what you REALLY want.

[Johnny Sparkle]

I have a friend that used to own a body shop, and he said he would help me out.

[Johnny Sparkle]

[ QUOTE ]
Hey man, PM'd ya...

[/ QUOTE ]

I PMed you back.

[SamIyam]

The parts collecting stage is the easiest stage for any beginning builder... it's the toughest for any seasoned builder.

And before I can give advice, I need to know what your skills are... do you change your own oil? Have you disassembled a car to be painted? Have you R and R'd an engine? A tranny? Have you rebuilt a carburetor? Have you packed your own wheel bearings?

If you answered no to most of those questions, I'd sell off BOTH cars if I were you and buy a car that is together and then learn on it... maybe a 50's or 60's car...

If you have done all of those things... I'd take a welding class... build a shop bench, a welding cart for your new welder... maybe a bracket or two for a friend... or for your other car... and then buy a couple of sticks of 2x3 and start making a frame for that bad-toad... draw up some plans on some graph paper... and go at it...

I'm not trying to be a hard ass... it's just that I know of too many people who have jumped the bandwagon, wanted to be a car builder, then flaked out when they didn't want to take the time to learn...

Time + Money + Talent = Hot Rod

If you are lacking in one or two of the areas... you better have a shit load of the others...
Sam.

[Johnny Sparkle]

I used to be a tool designer/maker before I went to work for a Sony DVD manufacturer as a Technician. Being a tech is not glorious, but I am good with my hands. I've designed plastic injection molds, then proceeded to go to the shop and build it. I can pretty much make anything I want on a CNC, I just never had a chance to learn how to weld. I actually have a 57 Studebaker wagon too, but the street rod bug has hit me hard.

I usually have time, I make decent money, and I believe I can stumble my way through the talent portion.

[Johnny Sparkle]

Damn, that came across a bit more arrogant than I intended.

I just want to know what you guys would build first, the basket case, or the relatively complete car?

Here's a pic of the relatively complete one.

[SamIyam]

not arrogant at all... you juss telling how it is...

Anyway, if I was you... I'd build the complete one and shit can the basketcase... mainly because a chassis for either project is going to be the same...

That one body looks cherry... if you ever decide to sell it and look for something else... gimme a ring, I want one...
Sam.

[HAAS]

I think I would go with the complete sedan, Very cool car.

[Johnny Sparkle]

I've been leaning toward the complete car. I can mess with the other one later if I feel like it.

Now, Flathead Ford or Studebaker 289? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[slazzen]

trade the extra car to some one that has a wire feed that will help you and teach you some skills. And that will share your enthusiasm to build the cars. I am sure as a machineist or cnc operator there must be someone you know that fits that desciption??? Someone that would trade skills and a little lessons for a tee body???

[Johnny Sparkle]

I have a friend that has already volunteered, it's just a matter of getting this ball rolling. To be honest, I'm not really sure where to start. I want to Z the chassis, but I guess I should know what engine I am running first to make sure I have enough room. Should I try to fit the body first, or should I make it a rolling chassis first?

Any suggestions on flatheads? I want something I can put plenty of miles on without worrying about reliability. Should I try for a later model OHV engine? I figured I may go with a Studebaker, but I found out they weigh somewhere around 650 pounds, and that sounds like a bit much.

[lakes modified]

Just do as much research as you can , till you feel ready to go for it. that's what i did over 35 yrs ago. i found all the stuff i needed and then got started. i did a 27 "T" roadster PU on a 32 frame. did a suicide front end and etc. just kept looking at old hot rod pictures and did what looked right..have fun while your doing it also.

[Johnny Sparkle]

I'm trying my best. I have about eight billion pictures now and hundreds of magazines laying around the house, just trying to conjure up ideas. It's always nice to have people rooting for you too. Thanks everyone for your advice!

[Rocknrod]

Stretch out the back into a station wagon of sorts... Mount a blown hemi in the back with a pantera style trans axle

Keep the hood in about the same location as it would be stock... but make it a trunk. On one side when ya prop the hood open have it so the tool box is already there! Just open it up! Other side for fluid storage... run the rad mounted like the pantera's was... just right up in front of the engine with a funnel under the car to force feed it!

... I think it'd be sweet... Or at the very least "individual" http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Roothawg]

I built the chassis on my T and on the Fly.
What I did was I went and bought some 2x3 tubing like Sam said. Then I blocked up the body on sawhorses and took digital pics of the car from all angles. Uploaded em to the computer then printed em out. (cause I am no good with photoshop). THen I started drawing on the printed copies, dimensions etc.

For example , I measured the distance inside the cowl, the height of the cowl etc. Then I would find that pic and write those measurements on that sheet. Put em all in a binder for future reference.

Next I drew out the chassis that I thought would work on paper. Transfer those dimensions to the shop floor with a chalk line and a framing square. You need a couple of reference points to ensure that you are square. Maybe one through the center of the frame and one perpendilular to the CL.

I laid the 2 main frame rails out and tacked some temporary braces on the ends to hold her square til I could decide the ride height and crossmember construction. This is probably way more than you wanted to know but too bad.... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

[Roothawg]

BTW, here's a link to my old bucket so you can see what I started with. Root's junk (http://www.okceliminators.com/member%20rides/ChrisKim23T/christbucket.htm)

[Johnny Sparkle]

That T-bucket looks pretty sweet. I have a Model A chassis to start with so I suppose I won't have to worry about tubing.

[cleatus]

The way I look at it...unless you are building your absolute "dream car," you'll cut corners, loose interest, and just end up mangling some rare bits of tin that someone else would love to have.

Also, the idea of building a car to sell to help fund the next project is flawed in that you rarely can make a whole lot more more money than you put into it and could probably just sell the parts as-is and make just as much.

I say just jump right in and build your dream car that you plan to keep forever. It will mean just that much more to you if you had to learn everything along the way just to put it together.

[Johnny Sparkle]

Perfect answer. You pretty much described what is circling my head day and night. I have the feeling I may lose interest on a car I don't intend to keep. Now I just need to hurry up and get all my parts gathered up so I can get started.

[Phil1934]

As to welding, I started a chassis project once with a stick welder and had experience stick welding, but did not like the look of the welds and bought a 220V mig. After burning up a couple tips holding it too close, I mastered it within a day. It really is easy to mig weld, but you might want a friend who welds to stop by and help for a day so you get the hang of things like penetration. Also plan on mounting things and taking them off again after tacking so you can roll the frame over and do all your welds horizontal. I'd keep body mods to a minimum. No more than a chop. There is more skill required to weld sheetmetal without blow throughs or distortion. After you get it together, if you want to do body mods a few years down the road, you still can.

[Johnny Sparkle]

I don't really have any body mods planned other than a nice chop, so hopefully I won't have too hard of a time. I do have some rust through that will need fixed, but it doesn't look too complicated (yet).