60 Chevy drive train questions part 2, 235 to 283/327 swap

[buzzard]

I am looking for the generals of things to consider for this swap. My main concerns are to get an engine that will come as close to a straight bolt in as possible. I have time to find the right combo. I'm concerned about motor mounts, trans crossmembers, and radiator clearance. What else am I not thinking of?

The 283 seems like it would be the most logical, since it was offered as an option. Will the 283 bolt right up to my Saginaw, to the 235 motor mounts, and the Saginaw 4 speed to the stock tranny crossmember? Seems to easy.

An what are the differences to consider if I find a 327? I'd prefer the 327, if it is not much more difficult to make work.

This will be my first engine swap, and I plan on doing it in my garage. So the option with the least welding has the best chance of getting done.

Thanks for the help/ advice up front.

Viva La Hamb!
Viva La Tech Week!

[smittyshotrods]

Buzzard, The motor mounts are the same on the 283 and 327 so you can use either. There should be holes already in your crossmember for you to bolt in V8 motor mounts. The fan shroud will need to be changed or modified to work. You will most likely need to upgrade to a larger radiator. There is probably someone who makes a tranny crossmember, I made my own for a automatic tranny. You may have to modify your driveshaft also. I was able to use my stock one and only had to change the yoke. If you need help let me know I'm available free of charge.

[Byron Crump]

Geez dude, not like you can't call about the six to eight in the 58 or something... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[krupanut]

Sounds like you've alreay made a deal on the new car?

I've seen front motor mount kits from some where, same as the old Hurst mounts like the one in my roadster. That would be a simple install I'd think, depending on clearance issues.
I'll try to find the catalogue I saw them in.

[buzzard]

Don't have the car yet. I'm trying to get a plan together to figure out if I can get it done under budget.

[BLAKE]

Sounds like the swap is bolt-in, but not necessarily drop-in (http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif). Get it! With the expertise (and 'extra' parts!) you have access to, it'll be a piece o' cake.

[voodoo]

You need to PM Travis or hopefully he will see this post. He has everything and I mean everything for 59-60 Chevys.

[Andy]

Hello to another 60 Chevy deciple. The mounts for a 283, 327,350 are different than for the 6.They use holes that are in all the frames. The same moter mounts(rubber) are used. The 283 radiator will cool a 327 and I suppose a 350 with no trouble. I had a 327 in one and had air. Never got hot. The 327 had the stock fan ,shroud. I think the clutch linkage is the same. Never matched it up though.I'm building a 60 Bisc 2-DR and am converting it to V8.

[Evilfordcoupe™]

You can never do it under budget......well, thats what happens to me anyway.

-Jason

[Andy]

More info, The trans x-member in the car is used for all the trans. offered that year including the T-10.The drive shaft from a powerglide or turboglide is the same on used for the 4-SP. also the overdrive! The Saginaw should bolt right in. You just need the frame engine mounts.

[buzzard]

Thanks for all the info. guys.

So, if I go with a 283/ 327 and the Saginaw 4speed, the radiator is the only real change? Is it possible that it could be as easy as that?

Since I have your attention, what are the rear gear ratios that it may have? 235 with 3 speed Belair.

[Reggie]

Hey Buzzard, this is all a straight forward swap. Let me know if you need an extra hand.
Reggie

[choprods]

My 58[same?]had the 235- I just bolted the 3 bolt mounts from the 6 to the 350 and bolted it to the six cyl stands where they sat. I didnt use the 58 trans- I used the long tailshaft[same as the saginaws] and I did shorten the front part of driveshaft a little.took the 6 cyl accelerator linkage off and cut and reversed the arm on the bellcrank and reinstalled it.radiator was same.

[Travis]

Stuff you need to change from a 6 to an 8...

V8 crossmember mounts from 58-64 full-size chevy

V8 radiator (6-cyl is shorter. It will work but it's not the same)

V8 wiring harness... the 6 cylinder will work if you cut the wires shorter... like the ones to the distributor and to the generator

283 fan shroud. Don't use a 348 shroud, and 6 bangers didn't have them.

Any smallblock will work in there from 283 up to 400.

If you find a wrecked 58-64 Chevy that has a V8, just buy that and it'd save you a ton of trouble.

Also one thing I always do to my 59/60 Chebbies... I buy a brake hardware kit for a 64 Chevy... they're self-adjusting and therefore you don't have to manually adjust those fucking things. They just install directly on to your standard 59/60 backing plates with no modifications. Buy the spring kit too.

Also, if you can find them, put in 61-64 hubs on the front spindles. They're tapered roller bearings. Stronger and cheaper than the old ball bearing style hubs.

Anything else, ask away...

Travis

[rikaguilera]

Hey buzzard, let me know if you need a hand. I'll clap real loud! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif No really, I have done quite a few of these swaps and if your tranny is down here I would be more than happy to bring it up to ya. Oh, and I still owe you dinner so two birds with one swap, err stone.

[1oldtimer]

[ QUOTE ]
I am looking for the generals of things to consider for this swap. My main concerns are to get an engine that will come as close to a straight bolt in as possible. I have time to find the right combo. I'm concerned about motor mounts, trans crossmembers, and radiator clearance. What else am I not thinking of?

The 283 seems like it would be the most logical, since it was offered as an option. Will the 283 bolt right up to my Saginaw, to the 235 motor mounts, and the Saginaw 4 speed to the stock tranny crossmember? Seems to easy.

An what are the differences to consider if I find a 327? I'd prefer the 327, if it is not much more difficult to make work.

This will be my first engine swap, and I plan on doing it in my garage. So the option with the least welding has the best chance of getting done.

Thanks for the help/ advice up front.

Viva La Hamb!
Viva La Tech Week!



[/ QUOTE ]

you can use any small block motor and a th350/400 will bolt right in to the cross member with NO mods (as well a 3 or 4 speed). chevy bellhousings are the same so the 3 speed will bolt to any small block. the only thing you need to do is find the v-8 plates that bolt to the frame (the 6 cyl are different). the plates are the ones that the motor mounts bolt to and then they bolt to the frame. once those are in it's smooth sailing, make sure you have the closed yoke that goes into the trans (no hole by the u-joint) if your going to use an a/t. you can run a 3 or 4 core radiator with NO problems, but you must get a v-8 fan shroud to keep it cool. the best way is to get a complete motor/trans with ALL accesories so you won't have to hunt down pulleys, brackets...... oh yea, use the short water pump and the 6 cyl had 5/16" fuel line (hard lines) so find a v-8 fuel pump with 5/16" fittings not 3/8".

[1oldtimer]

[ QUOTE ]

Also, if you can find them, put in 61-64 hubs on the front spindles. They're tapered roller bearings. Stronger and cheaper than the old ball bearing style hubs.

Anything else, ask away...

Travis


[/ QUOTE ]

you can use up to a '68 with drum brakes.


you will NOT need to touch the crossmember (trans), wiring or shift/clutch linkage.

just trans yoke, motor, engine mount brackets, bigger radiator, fan shroud.

one other thing, the 2 piece driveshaft tends to blow out the center support bushing/bearing. what i did is take it to a driveshaft shop, had the put a slip joint on rear shaft and extend it 1 1/2" (all will differ you need to measure yours, make sure bolts are in the middle of support adjusting slots).

the rear end ratio are:
overdrive 4.11:1
conventional 3.55:1
powerglide 3.36:1
turboglide 3.36:1

i've done 6 swaps (4 on my cars)
'61 bel air to a 350/350
'59 el camino to a 350/350 (sold)
2 '60 el camino's to a 283/3spd

all had the 235 in them to start.

[Garry Carter]

Buzzard,
Do it down at Aces & 8's and I'll help.
Garry

[buzzard]

Not doing this down there. It's an hour drive each way, which made it tough when I just did the coupe.

Where've you been. Haven't seen you around here for a while. Or at the Drags.

[1oldtimer]

another tip, i use the stock idiot oil light (i don't like gauges below the dash). use the 15psi autometer pro-lite oil pressure sending unit, part # AUM 3241 and a brass extension (to clear the intake, as the autometer is shorter but the tread size and pitch are the same). run 1 wire to the light (use existing wire) and the other to a good ground. on my 283 with 20/50w the light comes on a 1 qt low (it can flicker after along drive on the freeway, then stops after oil cools down and thickens alittle).

[buzzard]

Good tip. If I get that far, I'll use it.

[bustingear]

Poisonally,
I tink da convoision should be from da ate to da SIX. Hot Rod Hell says ya made a mistake!

[buzzard]

When you do, can I have your leftover,, uh, ate?

[Smokin Joe]

I wouldn't worry too much about what ratio's in the 6 popper's rear end. You'll be replacing it after you romp on that V8 the first time anyway. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Travis]

Buzz... what kinda 60 Chev is this?

Travis

[chickenridgerods]

[ QUOTE ]
The drive shaft from a powerglide or turboglide is the same on used for the 4-SP. also the overdrive! The Saginaw should bolt right in. You just need the frame engine mounts.

[/ QUOTE ]


Only the 4 speed and 3 speed OD front shafts are the same. The front shaft from an auto car is not the same length. The rear shafts are the same for all.

[buzzard]

It's a 2 dr. Belair Sedan.