Blasphemy? Non-finned aluminum heads.

[Bigcheese327]

A little more armchair racing if you’ll tolerate it from me. Maybe it’s sick but I really, really like the look of the stock FoMoCo flathead head. Aftermarket finned ones are okay but I see so many of them I’d just as soon run an OHV. Now, I know that at least during the 21-stud era some Canadian engines were produced with this head in aluminum (and perhaps some US as well?) but I don’t know about the postwar engines. Seeing as how that’s the engine I’m most likely to build at some point I’m wondering if they were made? How about aftermarket manufacturers?

[Steve]

yes the 24 stud stock canadian heads were made in aluminum as well. dont know if all where but I know some of em were.

[Bigcheese327]

Great. Hard to find? I've never seen them at a swap and I live in Michigan. On the other hand, I haven't picked up a Hemmings lately.

[Petejoe]

The 60 and 85 horse engines were made with the stock aluminum heads but Ford got away from them due to problems with warpage and corrosion.
From the flathead V8 engine website:

The first section here will cover the common 221 cubic inch 85hp engines which had 21 studs per head. The displacement remained the same from the 1932 to 1937 versions. Ford started with cast iron heads but changed to aluminum heads for 1933. The aluminum heads were a problem in service and were frequently replaced with cast iron heads. Corrosion made the aluminum erode and become difficult to remove. The engines started out with poured main bearings as earlier Ford engines had used, but the change was made to insert type main bearings late in 1936 production. Production of V8's in 1932 was limited due to initial casting problems with the blocks, causing a high rejection rate. Many 1932 Ford cars were actually equipped with the four cylinder engine for this reason and the concern of the buying public about the reliability of the new V8 engine. The four cylinder engine was dropped in 1933 as production problems and reliability issues with the V8 engines subsided.

[Steve]

bigcheese I saw a pair of NOS ones on ebay about a year ago they went for about 400 bucks if I recall corrrectly.

[Kevin Lee]

I like the look of finless heads with acorn nuts. I'm using non finned aluminum heads. The ones I have are stamped Weiand. They're early 24 stud heads - center water neck. I never really understood if hey were made by Weiand for Ford or if they were an early aftermarket head...I always forget to ask. Regardless they are going on my car as long as they are not found to be milled to the sky - I don't think they are....I really need to take them to the machine shop. Anyone else have some info on this?

Blatantly unnecesary or overdone fins are a pet peeve of mine. Finned coil cover? Come on.

[Bruce Lancaster]

Canadian aluminum 24 stud heads exist for both 59A and 8bA type engines. The C7RA heads (1947 Canadian) heads also exist in a Weiand copy with a different combustion chamber and slightly cruder casting. These are inconspicuously marked "Weiand" on the upper edge near the manifold. All versions were popular for circle track stock use.
There are probably prewar Canadian 24's, and there are certainly American ones, one of the 81A heads (I forget which suffix number) was aluminum. This wasn't high compression (though of course it was for a 221, so would be higher on a 239) and would require some very minor grinding for use on a postwar engine. These are very rare because of corrosion. I have one pretty poor one--If you find another, I'll flip a coin with you for the set...
Ford's secret weapon, used frequently on stock-appearance rule circle track cars and on every sort of modified before aftermarket heads were available, was the "Denver" head, PN 81A prefix , "S" (special) suffix.
Iron construction, 60 CC chambers, made for high altitude 221's. There was also a 99-S head for high altitude 239's, about 65 cc
These apparently were not available for long from Ford and according to old timers were hard to find even way back when.
I just bought the only set of (81A) Denvers I ever saw. The geezer told me he had had a hard time finding them in 1952 for his racer, and that I was the only person who had ever realized what they were in many years of Hershey!
This is probably what a '40's hot rodder would have been looking for before the growth of real speed equipment companies.
Bigger carbs, better ignition, stronger valve springs? Lincoln H V12!
Also Canadian: Very nice looking aluminum manifolds for all 1941-53 applications. The aluminum Canadian late Merc may be the only stock manifold with possible real advantages over common ones. The '41-8 Canadian manifolds had a nice forward oil filler tube added, probably as a result of wartime service in Bren cariers, which had engine compartments resembling the black hole of Calcutta.

[tommy]

http://fototime.com/{A66786C6-9CE7-4EE1-95FC-C37BF7C1466E}/picture.JPG
I agree. That's why I ran the C.I. heads on the sports coupe. These may end up on the roadster.

[286merc]

Take a stock set of heads, grind off all casting data.
Then silica sand blast. Finish up with some tedious polishing and give them a shot of Eastwoods aluminum finish.

I skip the Eastwoods and finish with a Gunmetal Gray. Put on a Red block and with chrome acorns plus a clean aluminum intake and you have an eye catching flatty. Stands out from the belly button (Oh its just another flathead) look and pisses off the chainers.

Of the 5 customer ordered flatheads Ive built this year 3 used smoothie EAB heads. I let the customers do the hard work, they were happy to save the $$$ of finned heads as well as get the satisfaction of having a hand in the process.

[maud]

Very good idea 286! That's what I'll do to my 21 stud cast iron heads, thanks!.

[Petejoe]

Ya know I wonder if the new polished finish processes they use on the exhaust manifolds would work on the heads. I'm sure they would really look good with that type of finish too. They Sure would pass for aluminum.

[LIMEY]

This may help..

[delaware george]

i like both,but that's cause i love flatheads...but i really like fins...hard to beat the look of a fully dressed flattie....maybe i'm a gold chainer http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[SlowLearner]

I'm with Bigcheese on these. I really like the smoothie head look. 286 has a great idea in my book. Got the looks, AND I understand the iron heads are less likely to warp and leak.
Re the aluminums, pretty much what Bruce said. I'm the proud (Canadian) owner of a set of NOS(!) C7RA's like in Tommy's pic. Also have a set of (kinda rough) alum (late)EAB's. Had a choice btw them and alum C1CM's, but wanted higher c.i.
I understand the early (21 stud) U.S. heads were made by Bohnalite (and didn't stand up well). The Canuck ones were made by ALCAN. Think Cdn ALCOA. Not sure if they're any hardier. Just real pretty! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[tommy]

Send them out to get that ceramic header coating.

[Kilroy]

Grim...

The Weiand heads were made by Weiand for the racers that had class restrictions limiting them to stock heads. They're "Cheater" heads.

[slacker_53]

The aluminum 'smoothies' would be really cool with the red block and acorns, I'd never thought of that......

But,I've got a 'freebie' set of Edelbrocks on the bench for mine, so I'll probably dress it with a two pot intake and the finned look, with my Fenton cast headers.

The rest of my car is kinda plain, it's needs the dressed engine to give it some pizazz.

-slacker

Flatheads forever http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Petejoe]

I used to like the aluminum heads better but anymore I think the colored heads give more dimension to the overall look. Especially when topped off with crome bolt heads. I suppose it just depends on the whole package as Slacker says. http://volcano.photobucket.com/albums/v11/petejoe/coupe_and_engine_compartment2.JPG

[alchemy]

Stock heads are OK, but stock heads with acorn nuts always say "I've got a J.C. Whitney catalog, and know how to use it".

But then, that's only my opinion. And the opinion of the guy who first said "If it don't go, chrome it".

alchemy

[AV8Paul]

Here is a 21 stud '37 engine painted red with Eastwoods castiron grey painted heads. I found a single '37 21 stud aluminum nors at Fitchburg last April. When I find another I'll polish them up and give them a try.

Hey 286Merc, I've trid to e-mail and PM you for a week now. I was reminding you about the 35/36 driveshafts you thought might be avaliable. Any news?

[recycler]

I have 2 aluminum flattie heads that I think are factory. Both are smooth.1 is for a V860. #52-6050-B HT8 it also has Ford script cast in it. The other is a 21 stud head with the 3 bolt flange water neck cast in the head. It has a "R" for right, "ALUMINUM" and 6.32-1 (comp ratio?) cast into it and nothing else.
I've always wondered about them and so has everyone who has seen them. Anybody know em? Brad

[NealinCA]

My neighbor has a few early Lincolns. I always liked the look of the smoothed and painted heads with the chrome fasteners.

Kinda like this...

http://www.classiclincolns.com/gall1/1933Kbengine.jpg

No JC Whitney there.

Neal

[slacker_53]

Hey AV8Paul, that flatty's lookin good! I like the two tone touch. I'm rebuilding one right now, the one I have runs sweet, but is giving itself oil changes.

I don't know what direction I'm going on the new one. I guess I won't know 'til I get there.

Flatheads forever http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[286merc]

Hey 286Merc, I've trid to e-mail and PM you for a week now. I was reminding you about the 35/36 driveshafts you thought might

Been having problems with the EMail, seems OK now; had to fix some bad Windoze files. I rarely check PM's unless prompted!

I checked on those shafts but they are gone. He says he knows where some are but looks like they are going to be buried until spring.

[34Fordtk]

Just thought I would throw this in here,this head on a restored 34 Roadster.The Ford emblem is cast upside down on it!

[34Fordtk]

Also here is mine right after a good coating of Ford red and some chrome caps http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Deuce Rails]

That picture of the Lincoln engine made me wet myself.

By the way, Flathead Jack has repo original Ford heads with higher compression. (At least at last check he did.)

[Bigcheese327]

Is it true he's overpriced? Or is that just a flattie thing in general? :lol:

[Deuce Rails]

Too true, Big Cheese. Too true...

[gettingreasy]

I've always liked the painted stock heads myself, maybe with a 4x2 manifold for a dirt trakker look.
-Jesse

[flatheadpete]

I run stock cast iron Merc heads on mine. I really like the idea of 'smoothie' heads. I'm gonna start grindin' and smoothin' this weekend. What does everyone think of the ceramic coating idea? Sounds good to me! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[AV8Paul]

[ QUOTE ]
I run stock cast iron Merc heads on mine. I really like the idea of 'smoothie' heads. I'm gonna start grindin' and smoothin' this weekend. What does everyone think of the ceramic coating idea? Sounds good to me! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif [/quote

I have heard that the ceramic coating holds the heat in. Could cause a hotter flathead. Most of us are trying to drive cool flatheads. IMHO.

[CTFuzz]

I remember reading somewere that the stock Ford head performs better than many after market heads....the article had a chart listing the top performing ten or so heads, the stock ford was maybe 3 or 4...........any ideas on this?

CT.

[Petejoe]

Here's a nice looking set of aluminum ones http://i4.ebayimg.com/01/i/01/09/00/b7_1_s.JPG
found here aluminum heads 60 horse (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2447979499&category=33 617#ebayphotohosting)

[286merc]

I remember reading somewere that the stock Ford head performs better than many after market heads....the article had a chart listing the top performing ten or so heads, the stock ford was maybe 3 or 4...........any ideas on this?

You dont have many stock choices for the 59A style block and the differences were mentioned early in this thread.

The 8BA block has a rather wide choice that all bolt on without any machining.
For performance the 1952-3 EAB head is the best for unblown use. Without throwing a correction factor in between "advertised" and true CR you can expect 7.2 on a bone stock 239. With cleanup milling, overbores and a Merc crank the cr can be up well into the mid 8's while still maintaing excellent transfer efficiency. General purpose aftermarket aluminum heads raise the CR at the expense of transfer efficiency.
There are some good performance aftermarkets but you are into the $1000 area and some are designed more for racing.

Note that when determining the octane gas that is needed the flatty is roughly 2 CR points behind a OHV. So a 8.5 means about 10.5 on a SBC or similar.

For blown use the 8CM is often the choice due to the much lower CR and a huge chamber.

Stock heads can handle a cam up into the .375" lift area without flycutting above the valves. With cutting you can go up above .400. Milling and super thin gaskets have to be considered in the above.

Another point is that stock and generic aftermarket heads have a wide range of chamber size tolerance. It is always best to cc and do some grinding to equalize the volumes. Getting to within 1/2 cc or so is quite easy.

[Bigcheese327]

Bump for xadamx.

[porknbeaner]

Here is a 21 stud '37 engine painted red with Eastwoods castiron grey painted heads. I found a single '37 21 stud aluminum nors at Fitchburg last April. When I find another I'll polish them up and give them a try.

Hey 286Merc, I've trid to e-mail and PM you for a week now. I was reminding you about the 35/36 driveshafts you thought might be avaliable. Any news?

Unless I'm mistaken the french flatty (marmon) comes with aluminum heads. maybe CheatersPete can answer this one for sure. of course that would be late model stuff.

[No_Respect]

There are some cast iron finned heads out there there a little diffrent I dont know who made them though

[hotrodA]

i like both,but that's cause i love flatheads...but i really like fins...hard to beat the look of a fully dressed flattie....maybe i'm a gold chainer http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

WHAAAT? Aluminum finned flattie's are the new "gold chainer" icon?!?

That does it! I'm grinding the fins off mine and painting 'em.
WTH, I might just sell em for scrap.

[Steve]

damn now heres a thread from a LONG time ago.

[oldspeed]

bigcheese I saw a pair of NOS ones on ebay about a year ago they went for about 400 bucks if I recall corrrectly.

I bought about two months ago a nos head and a perfect used one for $300 from Socal speed shop, these are for my 36 21 stud. They were for domed pistons, but when I received them the dome is so shallow I'll prolly just mill them a little and use them. I heard all the stories about corrosion but since they didn't have antifreeze for aluminum in the 30"s I am convinced that was the problem. Aluminum heads are used a lot now so I think I'll be ok.