S10/Ranger frames for swaping....

[imfatdad]

I think a Tech question, maybe someone else wants to know also... Why is the S10 the most utilized frame for transplanting under older trucks (and cars)?? Thanks in advance.

[onelow48]

Wheel base.

[Ayers Garage]

I'm doing one right now.

The wheelbase is proper for my 50 Chevy truck.

They are cheap to buy and easy to find parts for.

They are narrow enough to fit under the cab. Lots of cars, like Cutlass and such are too wide for the cab to fit on the frame.

Decent gear ratios for highway cruising.

Good bolt pattern for wheel availability.

They sit very low without significant mods.

No major fabrication like a clip is. The front sheetmetal mounts, bumper mounts, and radiator mounts must be dealt with though. Not near as big of a deal as splicing two frames together though.

[imfatdad]

So, the S10 specifically is better wheelbase than the Ranger??? All other factors mentioned would be comparable I would think...

[Ayers Garage]

I'm using an S10 because I was a mechanic for the post office for years and mail trucks are based on S10 chassis. That's what I know.

Most Rangers that I would be able to afford for a donor would be twin I beam front end..

Besides, it's a Chevy under a Chevy.

[Tinbender]

Track width. It's more important than wheel base. Wheel base is relativly easy to change. The s 10 takes a SBC easily. Its a pretty stout frame too. The ranger has a crap frame, even if it didn't have the twin I beam

[onelow48]

I sell wheels, and I know that a ranger has a higher offset
wheel compared to a s-10. Rangers also use I-beam set up
(bad) S-10's are a-arm (good) I used a long bed s-10 frame. My cab is 4.5"s off the frame and I can put the running boards on the ground. The s-10 is very cheep to build. I used a 4x4 rear they are wider then 2x4 rear. Most people use wheel adapters in front 1.5" thick. I like mine
tucked under in the front. This is my first build. I think it turned out ok.

[TexasDeuce]

Hey Onelow/Hillbilly,

I'm about to start a '50 Chevy PU on a '96 S-10 frame. Do you guys have any pics of your projects???

I was inspired by the So-What and the WZ Junk trucks seen here on the HAMB...
TD

[horty]

what about the blazer frame as compared to s-10? are they the same?,wheelbase, etc. and what years are good for say a 50 chevy tk. thanks and later horty

[ray]

the main issue with blazer frames, is get a 4 door frame, the 2 doors are too short, its easier to shorten than lenghten. more of a kick up in back i think too.

[studeboy]

I'm using a 96 Blazer 4dr chassis under my 49 Studebaker P/U. I have a 91 S-10 chassis sitting next to it. The main difference is the kick up in the rear behind the cab. The Blazer is almost flat where the P/U has 4-5 more inches of rise. Something else to consider is that the rails on my Blazer chassis are boxed the entire length and the S-10 isn't. As far as the Ranger chassis goes, I believe (could be wrong) Ford went to a control arm setup around 96 on the Ranger and Explorer, making them a more desireable swap than previous years.

The Blazer chassis I got was a rollover. My cousin wanted the engine and trans for a project and I got the rest for $500.(The body was of the frame) The wheels alone go on Ebay for about $150-$200 a set.

My Stude cab sits on the frame almost like it was made for it. The wheelbase needs to be lengthened by about 1.5 inches (I'll shorten the bed to make up the difference). The only problems I can see having is front springs heavy enough to carry an early Chrysler Hemi, and needing to upgrade the brakes also because of the weight of the engine.

Just my $.02 worth. Hope that helps somebody. Eric

[TooMany2count]

[ QUOTE ]
The only problems I can see having is front springs heavy enough to carry an early Chrysler Hemi, and needing to upgrade the brakes also because of the weight of the engine.


[/ QUOTE ]

the front spring will handle your Hemi, unless maybe if it weighs more then a 502 BBC motor. I say this because I have researched this for my own project, a 48 chevy 3800 series burb on an s10 frame & I have talked to a few folks who are running 502BBC motors in thier S10s.

as for the front brakes ya need to get the spindle assembly from a 1999 or 2000 or new blazer, along w/a hub assembly from a late model (2000 or so)Camaro. W/these 2 parts you be able to put a 11- & up rotor on your S10 frame, the camaro hub will fit the blazer spindle, then ya have to get the rotor ya want, I believe the late model camaro & implala are the ones ya want because the rotor comes off the hub assembly.. & then you'll have to fab up a caliper bracket so it'll clear the rotor. BUT be sure your rims will fit the new size rotors also.

as for the frames, I'm using a S10 truck frame on my burb cause it was <font color="red"> FREE </font> , BUT after sitting the body down on it I will lose about 9inches of floor space because of the kick up in the rear. This is fine w/a pick up but not a burb or panel. the best one for panels or burb is a blazer frame, because its flatter. SO ya ask, then why dont I just change it, well its a cost factor, like I said mine was FREE, so what I'm doing is cutting the rear half off &amp; will make basicly a flat frame w/a kickup at the rear axle for clearance. this way I can get the height ride I want, which is about 8 inches off the ground.... http://www.141.com/chevy/53panel/photos/t_shop-r-front.jpgya see this beast??? well its not mine but mine is its twin, this is a 1 ton burb/panel/schoolbus
(U take ur pick)

OOOOOOOO yea almost forgot these........joe
http://www.commerce.usask.ca/staff/hipkin/burb/frameswap.html <~~~ nice guy yo talk to

http://www.usbody.com/Install%2047%20chevy.htm <!! pick up on s10 frame

Toomany....Are you mounting your body directly on the frame or are you spacing yours up? My truck is mounted 3 inches above the frame and Mikey's is five. We made mikey's 5 so we did not have to fool with his floor (he had his carpet done before the swap). I like the kick up. It gives more room to get the truck lower.
Clark

[OGNC]

Then there is the front suspension. The twin I-beam suspension under the front of a Ranger (the early ones that you can get cheap enough to make a donor from, at least)isn't the best choice unless you're building a desert truck. Where the S-10 has standard upper and lower control arms and plenty of aftermarket goodies like cheap drop spindles, anti-sway bars, big brakes, and a multitude of coil springs and air bag kits available.

[Blacktop Graffiti]

Could somebody measure the width of the rear frame? and axle of the S-10. Please!

[TooMany2count]

[ QUOTE ]
Toomany....Are you mounting your body directly on the frame or are you spacing yours up? My truck is mounted 3 inches above the frame and Mikey's is five. We made mikey's 5 so we did not have to fool with his floor (he had his carpet done before the swap). I like the kick up. It gives more room to get the truck lower.
Clark

[/ QUOTE ]


right now its about one inch off the frame, ya know the floor bracing in the back of the burb, well thats the only thing between the frame &amp; the floor right now.. I'm kinda waiting to see how LOWWWWWW it sits when it completelt together, then &amp; only then will I decide if it needs to go higher, cause I like'em lowwwwwwww, hell our 40 chevy car was only about 4-5 inches off the ground when it was done &amp; I want this to be just about as low. as for the kick up, I'm cutting mine out (remember s10 truck frame here) and I'm going to build a rear half stub that will mimic the stock frame w/basicly a C-notch for the rear end, this way I get to keep my floor space. cause in the rear I will be make compartments for the spare tire &amp; other stuff ya need for just in case, and will have a 40+ gallon saddle tank made for it so it rides in the stock s10 spot.............joe

[studeboy]

Thanks for the brake info Joe. I'm not exactly sure how much the 502 weighs but the 331 is in the neighborhood of 800 pounds fully dressed (according a Hemi site I have been looking at) For this reason (and ride height adjustment) I am probably gonna run airbags on all 4 corners.

I'll go out and measure the rails and rearend tommorrow.

Eric

================================================== ========

49 Studebaker P/U

[Blacktop Graffiti]

Thank you!!!!!!!!!!! I didn't feel like diving under somebody's truck in the mall parking lot.

[Scotch]

OK - I'm not proud of this but...I have an S-10. It's a '96 and I can see why people would want to use the chassis under a rod/custom. The mounts are all "typical" and familiar, the dimensions are right, and teh basic chassis architecture hasn't changed since '82. There's plenty around and they're cheap. The 4.3 V-6 is a traditional SBC muinus 2 cylinders, so the motor mounts are the same, so an SBC or BBC is a virtual bolt-in (the block, anyway).

Onward to my point - these trucks are the most popular mini truck to modify. There's a teeming aftermarket for S-10 chassis upgrades and these include everything from super-high 4x4 kits to complete bolt-in airbag suspensions. My S-10 is on bags, and the entire thing was a bolt-in deal. The rear was converted to 4-link (again, a bolt-in deal using the leaf spring mount points as the new mounts for the 4-link bars) and there's as much suspension info and expertise as could be.

It's a good choice, and if anyone wants an S-10 chassis already outfitted with a 4-corner bag system and multi-switch controls (for front/back, side/side, corner-to-corner, etc.) Let me know. All you have to do is pay for the mods I've done to the truck, and you can have the whole damn thing. 10K and drive it home.

[OGNC]

Don't feel bad Scotch, I own a bagged S-series too. In fact, there are a bunch of guys on here who have owned or still own some pretty bad ass mini-trucks. I could out a bunch of them because I remember a lot of them from when I was the Editor of Mini-Truckin' Magazine so many years ago. Isn't that roght Boones, Killer, Wes, and the list goes on...

Toomany...here's my truck it's 3 inches off of the frame. I cut 1inch off the bottom of the fenders. It does have bags but stock spindles. When I built it I set it up with the tires I was using. I took the springs out of the front and set it down on the snubbers. I did the same with the back. Then I mocked the body on the frame to find the height I wanted. I set it up to have an inch and a half clearance incase I blew a bag I could still drive it. I also made a 30 gallon tank to go at the back of the frame and acompartment at the front for my air tank, compressor battery and a tool box. I did not make room for a spare. If my tank would have been smaller it could have gone under it.
When I build my beds I make the top of the bed framework even with the top of the frame (saves a little on the depth of the bed)
Mikey's truck has dropped spindles and the body is 5 inches above the frame. With the bags down his bumper is on the ground. Maybe if you set yours 5 inches off the frame and buit a subloor at the back that kept the floor even with the top of the frame you would only loose 3 inches of height on the back floor. It would cost you the $100 to get a set of spindles.
I'd love to find a 47-51 Suburban to build. I think it would be cool to add a side door on the pass. side to make it easier for passengers to get in the back.
Clark
Oh Yeh ...I am working on a tech article. I just need to get some pics together.

[TooMany2count]

aaaaaaaaaaaa, sowhat, where's the pic????? cause i'z knows my glasses aint that dirty....joe http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[studeboy]

Randy, The measurements you wanted are 48 inches on the rear axle housing (if I had to guess prolly about 54" at the axle flanges, allowing 3" each side for brakes and such). The rear frame rail measures 40.5 at the very rear. The rails don't seem to pinch or bow to much except at the firewall for the front suspension. Hope that answers your question, if not pm me and I can get the tape out. Eric

[Blacktop Graffiti]

Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[porknbeaner]

S-10s are cheap and easy to find. The have an independent front suspension, and not a twin I beam.
They take to modes well, IE 4 link (without back halving), V-8 swap (prior to the Vortec V-6 GM had planned a small block), lotsa suspension upgrades available.
And as someone said they have a good wheel base. They are perfect for '53-'55 Ford. And with the z on both ends (as compaired to the Ford original) you can easily end up right down in the dirt.
We're using an S-10 chassis under the F truck.

[porknbeaner]

Studeboy,
If you find the old mopar too heavy for the original S-10 springs bear this in mind. The S-10 uses the same suspension components as the F-Body (malibu etc) and big block springs are available from GM Performance. You can also find heavier rate springs that fit that chassis from almost all the roundy round suppliers.

[porknbeaner]

[ QUOTE ]
Randy, The measurements you wanted are 48 inches on the rear axle housing (if I had to guess prolly about 54" at the axle flanges, allowing 3" each side for brakes and such). The rear frame rail measures 40.5 at the very rear. The rails don't seem to pinch or bow to much except at the firewall for the front suspension. Hope that answers your question, if not pm me and I can get the tape out. Eric


[/ QUOTE ]
Studeboy you only missed the flange to flange by 1/4 inch. They actually measure 541/4. I cut a 9" inch down to exact width about 5 years ago. Not that the 1/4" makes much difference. Just thought I'd save you from measuring. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Sorry TooMany!!!! This shot show's the height the best. It's a little higher than when I first put it together. I changed the front tires to a 205/75/15 instead of the 195/70/15. They raised it up about an inch. My back tires are 235s
Clark

Here's mikey's truck with the 5 inch body lift.
Clark

[Hot Rod Ron]

What is the wheel base both front to back and side to side. I have been toying with using the S-10 frame for a new project that I think I am going to start after my duece is on the road.

[TooMany2count]

nice trucks guys, love the look too.......... wish mine was half that done but its a long way before it get there. BUT I do have a rough pic of what it may look like when done. a friend took a pic of a burb like mine &amp; did this for me &amp; yes the windows are stock in this truck because it was made as a school bus.its a 3800 series burb ...........joe

http://www.htc.net/~clssy56/Joe/Joes1.jpg

[studeboy]

Thanks porknbeaner that info will be stored for future use. Pretty lucky guess on the rearend width.

SoWhat both of those trucks are badass. It amazes me that Mikes has a 5 inch body lift and it still sits that low. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif I'm hoping my Stude be flyin' that low. (any where close would be good.) Is there any build pics of either truck on here? If not could you post some?

Thanks guys. Eric

================================================== =========

49 Studebaker P/U

[Boones]

OGNC, Ya you pulled me out of the closest.. Hi my name is Boones and I owned a fully bagged S-10 blazer... Oh shit wrong meeting..

Studeboy, what is the wheelbase on the 4dr blazer..

[Boones]

Here is a S-10 chassis under a buick.. This is KustomBuicks (does not post much anymore). Its now has an Art Morrison rear sub frame since the factory frame rails interfeared with the wrap around T-bird seat

[dixiedog]

How does a Ford 48-52 F-1 body set on these frames? Anybody tried this yet?

dixiedog... I did one a while back and it worked pretty good. On the Ford you need to set it directly on the frame. The back of the cab where the frame comes through will need to be cut out a little. The S-10 frame is a couple of inches wider than the stock frame. Jaygeff is doing one now. Maybe we can get some pics of it.
Clark

Boones... That Buick kicks ASS!!!!!!
Clark

[Boones]

bttt, studeboy, sent you an email about your chassis dimension

Clark, ya that Buicks sits down doesn't it

[Mojo]

Like Porknbeaner said, they are like F-bodys. Actually the bottom control arm, spring and swaybar are. The upper and lower arms, spindles, brakes, springs, and swaybars are the same as the G-body Monte, Malibu, Regal, etc. I had a 79 Malibu, and I used S-10 drop spindles and 4.3 v-6 springs. They were rated at 600lbs, a bit softer than SS Monte at 620lbs, which are softer than S-10 4.3 v-6 extended cab with A/C 660lbs I think. There are camaro springs that are 700lbs if you're running a really heavy motor.

Brakes... Here's how to add 12" disk to the front. (http://www.darklair.com/monte/12in-brake.html)

Anyhow, check out monte carlo and buick GN sites if you want to know about front suspension tech. That malibu I had used poly-bushings all around, stiff front springs, and stock rear coils, and would handle like a corvette. It was like it was on rails. Hope that helps...

[fordnutz]

A friend's 41 cornbinder on 118 inch S-10 frame. Uses the stock V-6 drivetrain and frame is not altered in length. I would have shortened it a touch. Stock column and guages and wiring harness. He has under $1500 in it and it is a runner. The truck is also not lowered.

[studeboy]

Mojo I just looked at that link and it looks like that would work. Most of the parts could be had from the boneyard for cheap. Heck the Camero 1LE rotors would probably cost more than the spindles. The article also mentioned a 640lbs spring at the bottom of the page that would lower it 1 inch. I think you found a gold mine of info on this one my friend. Thanks!!!!


Boones Sent me an email wanting to know the wheelbase of my blazer chassis. I found something on the web that might help a few others also. Hope somebody besides Ken find this useful. web page (http://members.shaw.ca/snowjeep/wheelbase.htm)

Eric

[AHotRod]

Looks like the S-10 chassis is the new-age chassis for daily driver HotRods...I had no idea that so many where being built. I like to see more !!!!!!

[porknbeaner]

Actually, there were folks that thought that the S-10 was the model t of the '90s. IE entry level hotrod. Then one of the heavy hitter magazines (won't mention any names) put out an article on how difficult it was to put a V8 in one. What a load. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif
Very bad info, but the upside is that alot of guys abandoned the hotrod S-10 and started trying to build more old school rods (cause its easier?).
Didn't take the new bunch of real rodders to figure out that the frames were cheap and usuable.
One of the big name glass body manufactruers is now making a kit to revamp an S-10 chassis, to use a a cheapie for streetrods. I think its Downs.
To answer the F-1 question, and anyone elses chassis swap question for that matter. The key is to assemble the front fenders on the cab, then place the cab and feners so the wheels fall in the middle of the fenderwell. Then deal with the bed as necessary. The short wheelbase pickup chassis is ideal for mid 50s ford and chevy trucks. Actually the wheelbase on a 53-55 F-100 is within an 1/8 inch of the S-10. You can fudge the fenders that much.
I believe that the fenders on an F-1 are a little longer than the early F-100 so you should have lotsa room to set whatever engine you want and even get some setback without tunneling the firewall. I'd have to measure to be sure.
One thing to bear in mind when setting a pickup on an S-10 chassis is that the frame kicks in the front and back as compaired to most older pickup chassis. The cab basically sits in a cradle.
Its the equivelent of a Zd chassis. So you get a very low stance with very little work. Example, I moved the floor on the F-Truck 2" (channeled). With the Kick in the front and the back it comes out the same as about 7" on channel on a stock chassis.
I already had 2" spindles from my previous use of the chassis (the rear is adjustable). So in order to keep the fenders off the pavement I had to section. I have about 7" of clearence under the doors (I don't run boards).
Oh, way too much info right? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[dixiedog]

Porknbeaner - i like the thoughts on setting the whole front clip &amp; cab on the frame over the front wheels. I was wondering how the firewall falls out in relationship to the rear of the motor (esp dizzy). And you sectioned the fenders only? If you ran the stock spindles would you have to section?

The binder is cool do you have any other pics?

There is an outfit that makes a glass body that resembles a 40 ford truck but uses the cab - looks pretty stupid IMHO, but each his own.

[spudshaft]

Aren't Malibu's etc G-bodys while Camaro/Firebird is the F-body?

[lulabelle]

I'll jump in here.I used the frontend of the S-10 frame and grafted my own creation to the rest.It was easier than building around the curves of the complete frame.

[porknbeaner]

I took 1" outa the grill opening, and two off the rear of the fronts, did the same in reverse on the rears. There's method in my madness, I also wanted to change the proportions of the truck. Without the drop spindles I wouldn't have had to section, but I wouldn't be as low under the doors.
Here's the deal, corner like its on rails, and look different but who knows what was done. With no chop (everyones doin' that) its slighly out of proportion, but not enough to be obvious. I just don't care for cookie cutter cars (at least not if I'm driven 'em).
Thing I like about HAMBers, they aren't afraid to break outa the mold, build with whats at hand, and drive it when they're done.
Trust me if it were any different I wouldn't be here. You all young and old alike are where I come from. All alike only different. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
Oh my GAWD, I think I'm waxing sentimental. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif sorry Bros.
I'll dig around for some pics, I gotta put something together for a new friend anyway. But right now I gotta get outa here. Trying to get a Nash together for a friend and make some X-mas money.
If I recall there are some roller pics on a thread about a '57 Ford truck. Don't recall but the HAMBer is from Northern Cal.

[porknbeaner]

Dixiedog,
By the way, my engine was already set back a good bit (jammed into the firewall) but with the F truck on the chassis I have plenty of room. I do have to make a divet for the dist, wouldn't have to without the channel.
I found some old construction pics here that I'll post.
Later when I can find 'em I'll put up some engine bay pics for ya.
She's still lookin a little rough, a lump of coal I guess. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
The first 2 are setup prior to body mounting, the 3rd was the day it became a roller.

[porknbeaner]

#2

[porknbeaner]

a roller, still needs the bed mounted, have to move the bed floor about 7-8"

[dixiedog]

Porknbeaner - let me tell ya, that lump of coal is well on its way to be diamond! - looks good - I have never been a big fan of the effies 53-56 but i like that look, because it's different.

[Killer]

[ QUOTE ]
Don't feel bad Scotch, I own a bagged S-series too. In fact, there are a bunch of guys on here who have owned or still own some pretty bad ass mini-trucks. I could out a bunch of them because I remember a lot of them from when I was the Editor of Mini-Truckin' Magazine so many years ago. Isn't that roght Boones, Killer, Wes, and the list goes on...


[/ QUOTE ]

Yep... I owned a body dropped 87 Mazda.

Wasn't cool enough to get into NC though...

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Captdave]

Thank you!!!!!!!!!!! I didn't feel like diving under somebody's truck in the mall parking lot.

I spent about a week measuring every kind of truck. In Tx, that can get alittle dangerous.

[bulletproof1]

im getting ready to put one under my 53 ford car...had the front half of the frame given to me...could have bought another whole truck for $200.....

[Macrush]

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=24594&pictureid=271483I'm doing a 51 Stude on a 85 4x4 S-10 chassis.

[tjm73]

The s 10 takes a SBC easily. Its a pretty stout frame too. The ranger has a crap frame, even if it didn't have the twin I beam

I would disagree with the S10 being a better frame. The S10 does have a better front suspension setup, but the Ranger frame has tons more rigidity.

Put a jack under the driver or passenger side front and jack until the front wheel just leaves the ground. The Ranger will take a lot less to lift the wheel. Torsional twist means a lot to handling.

But the twin I-beam is not much good for much at all in my opinion and I'm a Ford guy.