suicide front end question

[wideglide74]

Went to get the tubing for my front crossmember today. I was going to get 3in OD extra heavy wall seamless tubing. OUCH $59 for 3ft. They didn't have what I needed at two stops so it got pushed to tommorows "to do" list. What material have you guys used for a front tube X member that will have a suicide perch welded to it. I bought the suicide perch from ebay and it is cut for 3in tube, I don't have to use it I just bought it as it was available. I'd like to mount the spring on the top side of the perch as I've seen it done, but also been told "NO it's very dangerous", I say it looks Kool and will get everything lower. Maybe we could see some good examples of suicide front ends (yes again)? I will use either a 36 or 39 straight I beam axle and probably run the spring mounted from perches above the axle as opposed to hanging the spring from the bones... Thanks Jason...

[delaware george]

i think the one i have is for 3 inch also

[Unkl Ian]

You don't need seamless tube.Regular tube will be alot less. 3/16" wall should be sufficient.

[Crease]

2x3 .120 wall, but it's just Barnett that will be drivin it. He'll only drive it to pick up his foofy ice coffee. Im sure the occasional exceptionally short porn star will ride with him, but that's about it.

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Should be able to pick up heavy 3x3 at the scrap yard. If you were running lighter stuff, I would want the certs on it. With 3x3 heavy wall stuff, it's not goin anywhere.

[chuck fahr]

I have a three inch tube on the front of my frame also.Ive been looking around at diferent frontends.Speedway has a Mr Roadster droped tube and the springs mount to the back of the axel,not on top or on the bones. Anyone see one of these set-ups.Just wondering, they say there the most popular frontends they sell.How do the springs mount on the back of a tube axle?? The price is in my range but I'd realy like some input
Thanks
Chuck

[zibo]

wg74-I used 3/16 square tubing, the same width as the heighth of a stock model a frame in that section, (2.5 or 3) and it is plenty strong.

chuck-those axles are a symbol of cheapness. there is a model T style spring perches bolted horizontally behind the axle. I have one from a trade I am putting on a '29PU to sell.

zibo

[hillbilly]

the front member on the frame I was using for my T had a 3" SQUARE tube on it....my suicide mount consisted of the piece at the bottom of this picture...http://abctrailerparts.com/Scan10005.JPG and two 1/4" pieces welded to the ends to brace it. I never got to finish it, much less drive it, but was told it would be plenty strong...I suppose I have a question as well, was I lied to, or would it be sufficient, should i decide to finish the project some day?

[Dirty Dug]

The last one I put together I used 2-3/4"X 1/4" tubing ($$$)and slid a piece of 1/4" flat stock inside it welded in vertically. One hell of a strong beam. The 1/4" wall of the tubing provides a good welding surface for the perch. It may be overkill but I'm not an engineer.

[Mo Junk]

Wideglide74, Why not use driveshaft stock for your tubing? It's everywhere, it's cheap, and I think it's plenty strong.Shafts from larger cars and pickups are 3" o.d. Also, I considered mounting the spring above the perch on mine having it supported by the u-bolts but then the tyrod wouldn't clear(mines still behind the axle). Most OEM rearends are hung that way. It should be safe. Remember no matter how well you engineer it, the weakest link is the 3/8" shackle bolt with a 5/16" nut. Sam

[wideglide74]

Thanks guys. I went out this morning and bought a 30'' piece of 3'' od 1/4 wall seamless tubing. I tryed to avoid the seamless but it was the only one available right away. Great tip on the driveshaft tubing...

[Rocky]

Every driveshaft I cut apart was ultra thin...appeared to be less than 0.0125". Pretty durn thin for a suicide mount IMHO.....I'm gonna go with 3/16ths tube for mine. Gonna go to Speedway for a mount tomorrow a.m. I think...
But then, I really like this shop-made version too..

[Ted H]

Rocky- That shop built perch looks super. I was just getting ready to do the perch on my
a sedan with spring over perch but I think I'll do something like that just for the "artistic" value.

Wide glide-- Don't even think about using drive shaft material. Ithink Rocky was opptomistic
The driveshafts I've seen are more like 1/16" wall.
Ted

[Hackerbilt]

Driveshaft is thinner than I'd use! Its designed to have enough strength for its purpose in rotation but needs to be light as possible for ride and U-joint considerations. I'd use it for nonstructural things like exhaust etc...but never to mount a suspension! I think it would fatigue and tear out unless the vehicle was extremely light.

Hey Rocky...Isn't that the perch from Sam's Hokey Ass pickup? I thought he and the guys made it themselves? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Looks good regardless.

Bill

Oh...hang on....thats what you said! "SHOP built"! I'm dumb. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[Mo Junk]

Guys, I have never used driveshaft material and didn't realize that it was that thin. Now I know not to go that route. I agree driveshafts are a good source for all diameters of non structural tubing material, even aluminum. I live in a rural area with limited supply resources. I'm always trying to find scrap that will work. That is one good looking (artistic) perch. The beauty of the HAMB is that we all have access to so much expertise and experience. Sam

[Unkl Ian]

Did Sam and crew use 1/4" for that spring perch?

[atch]

i cut a 8" ford rear up this weekend and thought of this thread. went back and found it so here goes:

i didn't measure the wall thickness, but it was pretty heavy/thick. this stuff is designed to take some pretty severe stresses. wouldn't it work for the crossmember in question?

and isn't 3" o.d. a common diameter of rear axle tubes?

[Chopped50Ford]

Im guessing this is for a 32' frame. The tubing that is at the end of the frame horns?

What about comming off of the existing stock front crossmember and cutting off the horns.?

[Rocky]

Atch, your idea deserves some consideration. Would you cut the center section out and weld the two axle tubes back together to make a 36" long crossmember? Leave the flanged ends on to bolt to the inside of the frame rails?
The material is seamed mild steel tubing but it's pretty thick...don't know why it wouldn't work.

[2tall2beahotrodder]

Im about to build my own frame from 2x4 square tubbing.

Not exactly sure what style to use for a front suspension. Im thinking about going with a suicide style with tube axle, trying to keep it simple, easy to instal, and CHEEP..

Nothing's cheep for me at this momment..

Whats your guys opinion on a cheep, easy, and safe style for a RPU ..

[stoggie]

I am looking for info similar to Rat Rodder - But I am building a Touring and want to keep both seats(for the kids). So I am not sure about Z'ing the rear of the frame or not??
Maybe we should just start a new thread??

[2tall2beahotrodder]

You gotta Z the rear, unless you want to look high and goofy.( my opinion)

Im guessn your kids are young and not huge like me.. Zing the frame wont hurt them bad..

Heres my plan, Build a strait frame to fit the body ( if i can find one) out of 2 x4s..
Kick the back up with a 30' angle.. How high , im not sure.
It dependts on the front suspension..

I want to find a body first, get the front suspension eaither complete, or only missing a few peices.. then build the frame and fit the 10 bolt ..


Go look on total proformance's site.. They have a complete front suspension kit for $900, that includes brakes and spindals...
its $500 with out brakes and early spindals..

You can get a strait frame , non welded but all cuts made for 350..
On your own, you can do it for 50, but what ever floats your boat..


I know im getting over my head in ideas but gotta start planing..

[stoggie]

I'm with ya here... kids are small but at the rate I am getting things done they will be driving me around. Anyway Speedway uses 10" as a reference for Zing. Sounds like too much but I was thinking of mocking this up with 2x4 boards just to look and see before I got cutting a bunch of tubing and have to start over. I would love to see more photos of Tman's chassis he showed in the painted photos yesterday. I found a guy in Texas that just build a Touring and it looks right. I gotta call him too - he said he used Speedways chassis right outta the book.
Like you gotta get planning to make it all happen. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[AHotRod]

I've used 2x3 .083 wall on several cars.
As to round tubing, .125 wall will be more than enough.

[Preacher]

heres an idea i tried because all my drill bits broke the night i was dead set on getting the front end attatched... its a suicide for sure, but it worked out great. its a 55 ford front axle cut right where it kicks up. the wholes and set hole are already there for your spring. works great if you get jambed up... the bottom is reinforced with 1/4 inch plate
http://66.221.37.206/pictures/greasemonk/MVC002F001.jpg
http://66.221.37.206/pictures/greasemonk/MVC008F.jpg
http://66.221.37.206/pictures/greasemonk/MVC022F.jpg

just at thought at trying something different.

[atch]

back to the axle tube deal. i measured another 8"er last night. it looks like you could get a 19" long tube out of the long side and 16.5" out of the short side. i have an "A" front crossmember laying in the other shop but forgot to measure it to see how long you would need.

anyway, this is some info fwiw. i'm betting that pickup rears are probably longer than the 8" ('73) mustang rear i measured (the same rear i bought in illinois last weekend, for those of you who followed that drama).

[SamIyam]

Yep, that's the spring perch from the Bomb Factory Digger.
I made it out of 1/4" steel plate. I drew little circles all over a piece of paper and then started drawing sketches of different ways to do it... that one won out!

Then there was all the drilling... and filing... and sanding... spent way too much time on it...

Sam.

[2tall2beahotrodder]

preacher, can i see your rear end setup.. How much did you kick it up?

[Preacher]

rat rodder,

from bottom to top 13 inches, slamchop(hamber) actually made the frame... here are couple of rearend shots
http://66.221.37.206/pictures/greasemonk/topviewrearend.jpg
http://66.221.37.206/pictures/greasemonk/MVC023F.jpg
let me know if i can help ya

[burger]

damn preacher is that your shop?