Prep Work: Going In Circles

[Humboldt Cat]

I'm going in circles with this, and thought you could help ground me with it. Prepping my truck for a year now, I was originally told by the paint shop that was to paint it to sand 'er down to the bare metal, lay in the new filler, then primer using (which I've bought) :
-- Self-etching filler primer (DTM brand) with activator.
-- 2K primer surfacer w/ hardner (Limco brand, 800K surfacer, LH810 hardner. Don't know what those numbers mean, maybe you might).
Last April I initially got the front part o' the Effie (excluding fenders)...

[Humboldt Cat]

...then of course had to do more touch up work on the newly primered areas, but in the process did filler on the rest of the cab... This is right before it left Bob's garage headed for outside our condo (where it is now)...
Was advised by some to primer each panel as they're done, individually, but advised by others to wait 'n do the whole cab at one time. I've been following the latter advise...

[Humboldt Cat]

'Til recently scrambling - intricately and painstakingly slowly - paintstripping the rest of it, touch-up on the bondo, rubbing out surface rust as soon as it appears. Yes, keeping it in a garage would be best, it just hasn't been possible, so am doing what I can to get it to the point of reprimering...

[Humboldt Cat]

So here I am back in frickin' wet December again, tarps covering 'er, progress at a crawl 'cause of the weather.
The primer I've gotten- if I lay a sealer on top of that, will the paint shop have to rub it out when they lay on the paint? (eurathane with clear coat's the plan)
The primered parts have held up well accept for the deck below the front windshield and the brow above, but don't know if that means I nead to sand that out and re-primer from bare metal, again.
Just not sure what approach to take sometimes, anymore, or if I now need to use extra materials, now that it's been out of a garage for 3 months (no deep rust has set in, if any it's microscopic, held at bay by etching prime prep rust removal.
I wish I had a simpler question to ask.
Am I using the right primer?
Should I rough the bare metal some before primering?
If I use temporary primer-out-of-a-can, do I need to rub it out before applying the etching & filler primer?
Just going in circles with a project that's taking way too long. Thanks for feedback.

[Humboldt Cat]

Better close up of the metal. Just need to take care of the pinhole in the pass. door and roof and it's ready for primer. Thanks for putting up with all the replies, haven't figured out how to post many pictures in one post.

[Threedeuce56]

hey how's it goin!i come from the land of rain B.C. Canada,when i was doing the bodywork on my 56 i did it one panel at a time cause all i had was a 1 car garage at my mom's house.the air here is so moist that bare metal that is in a garage will surface rust within days and outside well almost instantly.I wouldn't have stripped my whole vehicle to bare metal at once unless i knew that it would definitely be in a heated garage till the bodywork was sealed.years ago a buddy of mine had a 68 impala ss that he wanted to restore,this was when i was in high school and none of us really knew what we were doing weall decide to sand the car down one day to work on it seven guys and ten hours later the car was in bare metal but we hadn't thought about painting it yet since it wasn't raining.the car was also a daily driver so it got driven the next day and it rained and the car got really rusty really quick!a couple years later i got the car as a trade with another friend for some stuff the rust had taken it's toll and i had a hell of a time getting 200 bucks for it.I would recommend that you put some paint on that truck asap just get some spray bomb flat black "paint" not primer spray the whole thing ,everywhere there's bare metal or bondo(bare bondo is like a sponge and absorbs water).Just paint it and "Get it straighter Later".good luck and keep us posted! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Lefty]

If it was me, I would go for the one panel at a time method. That has always worked better in the case of big projects. Multi panels tend to overwelm you when taking on a bigger project. The photos indicate this is more than just a scuff and shoot. Sure you will use a little more primer,tape and supplies but in the long run it will work out. Once you have it all in prime, then you can block sand and primer the whole truck without worrying about large panels of bare metal rusting away. Good luck.

[Humboldt Cat]

You're both right. In countless ways, as my first bodywork project it's the whole Hindsight 101 education. Just had no idea how long this could take. But I need to primer first, ASAP, even out the low spots and do it again. So much touch up and corrective work's been done, only a few areas will need to be corrected and re-primered.
Thanks for the input, and am glad you'd like to get more updates. Eureka's got the same moist air as B.C., sounds like. Sheesh, I've been lucky so far.

[SwitchBlade327]

self-etching, surfacer, I don't know about the sealer, thats bascially just to seal off everything underneath so it doesn't bleed threw the new paint job. I don't know what it would do exposed to the elements, might very well have to be re-sanded and sealed again. I'm sure someone else on here knows for sure.

[mikes51]

[ QUOTE ]
If I use temporary primer-out-of-a-can, do I need to rub it out before applying the etching & filler primer?


[/ QUOTE ]

I've got first hand experience with that, don't use the spray can primer. You will need to remove it all before using the "real" 2 part stuff.

I would mix up a batch of your catalyzed primer and shoot the whole truck. Just get that bare metal covered. Then start driving the truck. Work on the drive train issues, tuning etc.

It's easy to loose momentum if you are sanding all the time and not driving.

You can always go back and straighten all the body work later.

[Humboldt Cat]

[ QUOTE ]
It's easy to loose momentum if you are sanding all the time and not driving.

You can always go back and straighten all the body work later.


[/ QUOTE ]
As Boomhauer would say: "Yo, man."
'Tis my new plan. I've been worried about no driving it everyday, but couldn't help but focus on the sanding. Yer right, though, just need to do those 2 and do the finishing later on. A few friends have recommended the sealer, since primer without it is like a sponge with the humid Humboldt air, but didn't want to cause major steps back for the paint guys. Thanks for the feedback!

[chopolds]

Probably gonna get some flack for this, from the 'experts' who have worked on, or helped work on, ONE car, but I've been doing body and paint for over 25 years, built or painted over 100 complete cars,(not MAACO specials, either).
If you really want to do it right, you cannot leave a car in bare metal outside for any length of time. Even condensation (dew) will begin the rust process. Regular primer doesn't protect it, either. Primer soaks up water, as has been mentioned. So does bondo! It takes days, if not weeks for bondo to dry, if it's gotten real wet! And it will only dry, if in a warm, dry location! The problems of painting over weathered primer or bondo may not surface immediately after painting, but will some time down the road. GUARANTEED. Maybe this is not true in dry SoCal, but where I come from, it is. Another disadvantage to getting primer or bondo wet, is, eventually the moisture reaches the steel underneath, and starts to rust it out. It never seems to show in primer, but as soon as you paint it, the rust bubbles start to pop up.
If you insist on stripping the car to bare, do it all in one day, and immediately put an EPOXY primer over it. This is the only primer with a bit of water resistance in it. So logically, it would make sense to strip, bondo and primer one panel at a time. If the primer is outside for longer than a few months, sand it out and re-primer it, to gain back some weather proofing. Sanding is good excercise, and good practice for making the car straight and smooth, anyway, get used to it!
You can also seal each panel with some paint, if you are worried about it. The paint will make a good 'guide coat' to sand off later, to be sure you got all the dents, and scratches taken care of.
I use House of Kolor epoxy primer, almost exclusively. reasonably priced, for a great product. It is good to put on straight over bare metal (good adhesion), no etch primer is necessary. This is important, because some etch primers are made not to go under, or over body filler, read your tech sheets!. HOK primer is also a good filler (surfacer-primer). It will fill 80, maybe even 40 grit scratches. It is easy to sand, and seals fairly well. I have even used a paint brush to apply it, though I'm sure it's not a recommended procedure, in areas where I don't feel like masking it off at the time, or in small areas, to be sanded later. (PS, you can also bondo over HOK primer, to fix stuff you missed the first time)
Hate to be a ball buster, but if you really care about the finished paint job, you gotta do things right, even if it's inconvenient, time consuming, or laborious. Body and paint work is all of the above, besides dirty, boring and repetitious. And the better you want the job to come out, the more boring, repetitious, and laborious it is!!!!

[Petejoe]

Use Picklex before painting or primering. It works great for removing and stopping rust. After you have used an etch primer and you will not be doing your body work and painting on a timely basis. Use Zero Rust. It will seal your work from any humidity and after a few months, it will dry enough to allow you to sand, putty, prime or paint right over it. Talk to 286merc on this.

[Humboldt Cat]

[ QUOTE ]
Sanding is good excercise, and good practice for making the car straight and smooth, anyway, get used to it!


[/ QUOTE ]
Believe me, I'm used to it. I powersanded and aircraft-stripped it off and block sanded the new fill back in. And again. And again...
In over a year, I've gone from apprentice to novice level, and the same job hasn't been finished yet! If I wanted to take shortcuts, I wouldn't have been as meticulous and painstakingly thorough as I've been.
The lack of garage issue, in recent months, has been the bitter cherry on the cake.
Don't worry about the ball bustin', it's necessary at times. I usually beat people to it on my own self. (that didn't come out right...)
For scuffing up the bare metal for best adhesive effect for the primer, what grit is recommended?

[Humboldt Cat]

[ QUOTE ]
from apprentice to novice level

[/ QUOTE ]
Meant to say AMATEUR to novice. But I could be wrong. You prob'ly gotta FINISH a project before being considered a novice. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif What a long strange trip it's... being.
Thanks for the time you all put in with yer responses, it tremendously helpful.
Lemme know when yer in the area, Choprods, the brew's on me.

[Humboldt Cat]

Meant Chopolds, not Choprods. Hell, I pour for BOTH of ya. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[chopolds]

Hey, Cat, I might take you up on that brew! I do visit the 'wrong' coast once in a while! As for prep on bare metal, any sandpaper that doesn't gouge the shit out of the metal is probably OK. I usually use 80 grit on my DA to get bare steel ready for primer. But next to weld, there may be 60 grit scratches from dressing the welds. All in all, by the time you get to then end of the prep work, it'll all disappear.
After roughing out bodywork, glazing, and cutting it with 80 or 100 grit, I epoxy it, then re-block it out again in 80. Epoxy, then wet block it with 180, epoxy again, and wet block with 320. Then depending on the brand and color of the paint, I may sand with a finer grit. Using guide coats, and proper sanding technique, you can get an almost perfect surface this way. Lots of work, but if you really care, you want it to look it's best!