Cutting glass-Tech O' Matic? RYAN?

[lulabelle]

There have been alot of posts lately on cutting curved glass.I didn't see anything in the T.O.M.on the subject.I'll start with how I did it on my 51 Chev...I lay the glass on a piece of foam so it has equal support.I then use a grinder with a THIN cut-off wheel.Make a light pass along the line to score it.Spray it with WD-40 or whatever spray lube you have around.Keep making light passes while keeping it lubed.Eventually you'll be through the piece.Take your time!I didn't make the sharp corner cuts at first.Just took it off a little at a time.After you have it cut as close as you can,take it to a glass shop to have the edges "polished"(sanded).I know there are others who are way more qualified than myself on this subject.Lets hear how you have done it so we can put together a good T.O.M.I hope this helps.

[choprods]

That sounds Good Lulabelle- I am open to any way that makes it happen. I feel like a lot of people need this info so lets all kick i our bits of info we have aquired from the school of hard knocks....My offering to this subject is the result of in progress experiments with cutting curved and flat "Duoplate"/safety glass[not tempered] for cars that have been chopped.I am suggesting cutting the glass or windshield with a WET TILE SAW- [whether rented or purchase][cheaper]and a 7"diamond coated blade. one would need a second set of hands for my method for sure. I have cut lots of experimental peices and am confident this IS a do-able method that most anyone can master. I had good results the FIRST TIME-so I feel that its possible for a good result the first try.it would help if a person was spraying the cut with a sruit bottle[not a hose dummy!]the saw has a tray that holds water -but it could run dry on a long cut- it must be steadied as it is moved thru the cut and if twisted much it would crack. also one might be smart to tape some straps across the curved w/shield to keep each peice from spreading or moving-possibly a light weight "buck'could be glued or duct taped to glass to support it. also like Lulabelle said above- make only straight cuts as close to your cut line as possible-"squaring off" the corners untill you are close enuf to line all the way across that it could then be belt sanded till perfect.the windshield would have to be tilted and eased across the stationary tile saw using the two man method to succeed-key word here is [NO SUDDEN MOVES] kinda handle it like it was nitro glycerin and you should be all rite. THIS WOULD BE THE CHEAPEST AND FASTEST METHOD I HAVE ENCOUNTERED.

[choprods]

2

[lulabelle]

Thanks choprods.As he said.Many have tried to cut tempered glass with no luck.
I also cut the glass before the car.That way I was sure I wouldn't be stuck.Build the car around the glass!Also,after I scored the glass I removed the tape line so I could watch the glass as I cut.

[choprods]

Yeah....maybey use 1/8"striping tape to mark the cut-as a marker would wash off.

[flt-blk]

[ QUOTE ]
I also cut the glass before the car.That way I was sure I wouldn't be stuck.Build the car around the glass!

[/ QUOTE ]

That sounds like an important tip.
TZ

[Blownolds]

How about trying those thin diamond wheels that Dremel/Foredom tools use? That would probably be the thinnest "cut-off" wheel you could get, and the smaller diameter means you are cutting in a shorter "patch" than a larger diameter wheel (that would have a longer active cut-line going). That might also then help keep the "little at a time" method easier to accomplish and less chance of cocking the wheel in the groove and binding it up. Anyone ever tried that?


I also have heard of glass shops simply sanding the entire piece down using a belt sander that is continuously flooded with coolant. That seems like it might be hard to see the cut line though.

[lulabelle]

I've tried the dremel idea.It doesn't work verry well.Slllooooowwwww.And as for the polisher,you better have alot of belts and a patient glass shop!

[286merc]

Ive heard mention of sandblasting also. I wonder if one of those small "air spot sandblasters" that are sold for crafts work are any good. Cant imagine using my TP-99 pressure job on glass.

Good alert about cutting the glass first! I remember a few HAMBer chops that wound up getting sold off minus the glass!

[choprods]

BTTP-How about it Olcarglassguy or Scarliner- anyone else,add to this to make it a valuable reference?

[bluegrassboogie]

ive been studying all the glass cutting posts because im gonna be trying it probably around spring time.im gonna try the lulabelle method bacause its seems controllable.i keep having this nightmare about a wet tile saw kicking back on me. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[safariknut]

The only caveat I can add to this is:Wear a GOOD respirator while grinding as well as eye protection!Microscopic glass particles are NOT digestible and play havoc with your vision!Ask my wife who used to do a bunch of glass grinding and cutting in her stained-glass work.I'm sure Becca could attest to this.

[lulabelle]

BTTT Anyone else?

[WZ JUNK]

I use a small pressure feed sandblaster. I mask the windshield with 3 M double stick tape that is used to stick moldings on cars. I use the tape as a guide for the blasting tip and I just run the tip along the edge of the tape as I go across the glass. Takes about 40 minuets to cut a large windshield. It will require sanding after cutting.

[48_HEMI]

I went back to my old handle, but my business name is still "The Old Car Glass Guy"
I've tried a few different methods. I think Peter has some spy shots of me cutting the windshilds on his Queen Mary HAMB CHOPPED Olds I think I spent about 15 minutes on each one.
I have several hundred new old stock windshields in stock but I don't think I'll be practicing on them.
I might try the wet tile saw just for kicks. look like fun http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

all these methods work to some degree I've tried the cutting wheel method on compound windshield with zero success.
something like a 54 chev you could almost scratch with a nail and break it right.
some windshield are harder. these new windshield from south america I save about 1 in 10 while the ones from china I save about 9 of 10. the one made in the U.S.A. I don't think we even make them anymore. you see Speedy Bill is not the only company sending products off shore!

[choprods]

Thanks for the input 48 Hemi- you should know.........I think the thing to remember about my proposal is that it has zero glass dust unlike sandblasting and it also would be a better success ratio for a beginner as the cut is cooled better all over the glass- with water. I never heard of anyone getting shocked using one of these tile saws in a proper stationary position. -Every time I tried a cut off wheel [on glass] It was throwing sparks, so unless you used water as a coolant the risk of setting your self on fire is something to consider.another point of interest on this method I used -is the peice of glass I showed in my post is still here on my computer desk about 3 months later/not even sanded on a belt either- and it has not hairline cracked at all. Considering that one of the cuts was in the middle of a curve and at a striking 90 degrees and stopped in a corner- I think that in itself shows that it is safer [crack wise] than some other ways used in the past. it also cuts it very quickly which is a benefit.

[CharlieLed]

The wife used to do stained glass and has a grinder that she used to fit the pieces of glass together. It's a flat table with a grinding wheel/cylinder sticking up through it. There's water in the base that keeps the grining wheel wet and cool. I have used this tool to grind notches in glass doors for hinges in stereo cabinets, I am sure it would work well for auto glass as well. It will get the edge smooth enough that you can sand it down with a little 600 grit wet-or-dry for a really nice edge.

[48_HEMI]

Choprods
one more thing that I'm reluctant to post. I use anti-freeze instead of water for coolant, but thats nasty stuff if it gets flung around but its thicker and cools better. I noticed that your cuts are flakey on the edges that is most likly from the heat http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
those square corners could be cut at 45 degrees and then ground with a wet belt sander to a radius.

the windshields that I have problems with other than the south american one are like 67-72 chev pick-up.I can cut them 6-7 inches but have lost many trying to shave off 2-3 inches http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif but I still just use a glass cutter and some trickery to cut windshields. next time I cut one I'll post some pictures of my trickery! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[choprods]

Thats right Hemi- I was using the blade they sent with the 34 dollar saw- Im sure there is a better quality blade than that one! it does leave little "chips" along the cut but I figure they could be belt sanded on a real job. come on guys add your glass cuttin'-secrets to Lulabelles post!

[old beet]

48 HEMI we must think the same. I also use the old fashoned method for cutting glass, a glass cutter? I could grind every one with no breakage but need to change belts ever 3 minutes. Have done a few 55 Chevs this way. But with the cost of grinding belts, can't afford to do it. Also had many problems with 68-72 Chev pickups (them godamn sharp ears). Sandblasting seems to work fairly well, but have seen some breakage. The hand held glass saw is a crap shoot, one wiggle and its all over. Also can't stress enough, CUT A WINDSHIELD FIRST, just use a junk one so you KNOW the glass will fit. And never buy a chopped curved glass project car without an installed windshield. And NO!! there is "NO GAURENTEE"(sp) cutting curved glass. I've cut a couple hundred in the last 30 years, still don't like to do it. Cut the first 35 perfect, then broke 7 in a row. Wish I knew a sure way, but some times "they just break"........OLDBEET

[48_HEMI]

Beet your a better glassman than me I only got 19 cut before I groke my first. I guess I was getting cocky and careless. Had a NASCAR guy from out of state that came in to the shop and wanted the bottom 5 inches cut off a new windshield I did it while he waited then he bought 10 more and asked if I thought I could get at least 5 and I sent him back home with all 11.
that kind of stuff doesn't make me good. because its has more to do with the windshield and manufacture. many windshields are prestressed when they are laminated. when you relieve one side whether you use a cutter, sand or any other method the good side cracks. thats what has me thinking the tile cutter going thru both sides might have merit.

I plan on retireing my business next year and am not sure I want to learn any more tricks that are related to the job http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[choprods]

a point that could be made at this time is your chop job could be major stubler in fitting a windshield.I thgink any time you widen the top you are risking an impossible fit so any time you are narrowing the width at top its better than widening there.[unless you can figure a way to add glass to its width!] http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[old beet]

48 HEMI, funny you say retire, got a letter from the union Saturday, they say I can retire anytime. Gonna take it 3 more years or die tryin. Waitin on the wife, 15 years my junior. Rite, old dog new tricks, can't even use my cell phone correctly..........OLDBEET

[scarliner]

Lulabelle, I am really kinda of a new kid on the block when it comes to glass, I have been doing it about 5 years now.I probably broke somewhere in the ten gazillion dollar figure of new and used glass.Ive broken enough mirror,to give everyone on the north american continent,7 years bad luck! But there has been a few good things come of this.I think any of these guys that have posted here,can tell you,theres nothing like experience.Even if its bad, if you learn something from it,thats good!I cant really add any super secret ideal to this post on how to do curved glass,as of right now.To be honest with you I havent really tried to do that much of it,but I do plan to spend some time trying it soon.But I can tell you a few things I picked up,along the way,about doing glass.Temputure is always a factor,in glass cutting.Its best to cut glass,at a good room temp.,65 to 75 degs. gets the best results for me.Store your glass at about that room temp. at least 5 or 6 hours before you cut it.Dont store it in a cold place or hot place,and then just start cutting on it.Glass is like most other materials,it cuts best once the temp. has stabilized.I know when you are sanding it,its best to flood your sanding belt with water or some type of glass coolant,there are many offered out there.This will keep the glass cooler and your sanding belt cleaner,and also keeps the particals from the glass,from just,floating in the air,so much.As far as cutting it with a power tool of any kind,I would say the finer the grit or tooth count on the tool,would make a smoother edge on the glass and probably produce less fracture cracks,but I also know the finer grit or tooth tool would increase heat,so your gonna need to flood the cutting area with coolant.As far as sanding a large amount off of the glass,I dont recommend that.Its a lotta hard work and very time consuming.I think if you can come up with a way to cut the glass very close to the correct dims. and then sand off just enough to smooth up the edges,thats by far the best way to go.The sand blasting method,Ive never tried,but I have heard of this being done before,and I think with the right blaster,correct abrasive,and good tape to protect the glass, it would probably,induce less heat into the glass,than cutting it,in other ways.
In finishing, all I can say is there are many factors,that can come into play while cutting glass.No matter how much glass you have done in you life time, shhhh happens.Glass quality is a big factor.I have better luck cutting new glass than old, practice on old stuff,cut the new last.Some glass you get,seems to have added stress in it,no matter what you do,it just wont co-operate.I believe this has a lot to do with where it was made and that process, again the almighty dollar,hits us in the rear!
Some days you can do no wrong and others you need to walk away and come back with a better out look,its a lot cheaper in the long run.
And the hardest thing for me to learn,was to stay relaxed and look at it as just another job,dont let it scare you,its glass,it will break,the world goes on, once I learned to look at it like this, my success rate went way up.
I plan on keeping an eye on this post, Im just like everyone else here,I want to here your ideals,this is something that has caused big problems for rodders for as long as I can remember.I am sure we can all come up with a good way to solve this problem,if we just put our heads together.

[redmeat]

<font color="red">I can attest to Old beet's glass skills .....AND his lack of cel phone skills.....saw his merc and saw his son try to get ahold of him on the cel phone for like 3 hours today!!

R E D M E A T </font>

[atch]

i don't know squat about cutting glass. i just have a question: has anyone tried the water jet for cutting glass? seems like it would be instant cool and maybe not so likely to break.

[old beet]

I've tried it(Hydro Sabre Tech.) I works really great on flat glass. Leaves an almost polished edge. Heres the problem, it is critical that the jet stream is a certain distance from the glass. It shoots a water jet at something like 25 thousand plus psi. The machine is not equiped with a contour guide or any means to back up the curved glass. It may be posible someone makes a water jet cutter similar to a bandsaw setup, that would work well with some testing. And by the way it cut TEMPERED glass for a very short way, before it broke.......OLDBEET

[choprods]

as an add on to this post and to bring it back to the top-I got myself out of a jamb today with the tile saw trick.....reggie cut my windshield halves for the 40 Ford sedan Im working on-he always cuts exact to my patterns.,and I made the patterns so it was MY error....one was tight in the upper corner.I was installing them in a cut down stock gasket[3"chop] and ALSO was V-Butting the center SEAM......it also was too tight[Damn my patterns again!]anyway he was at work by the time I got home so I was on my own here....I took the tile saw and cut about 1/8" off the right side and upper corner and a trace across the top a ways-then cut 1 saw blade off the entire centr end of that glass.....tried to reinstall- it was tight at the top of the center Vbut splice still1Damn....so I thought well I was lucky so far what the hell-I put it back on the saw and sawed a tapered cut from thop fading to zero at the center of the height and stopped there.....It worked and now my too big glass is installed! I had cut on three sides and twice on two of the three!no cracks.Then I sanded the edges with a DA sander with 80 grit cause thats all I have to use.....Whew! I feel like an after sex cigarette![I dont really smoke either] http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[manyolcars]

We have a bandsaw that uses a diamond blade and a water pump. The cuts are EXCELLENT, fast, easy, no breakage.

[choprods]

M'O'Kars-I wonder how the blades are as to cost?[bandsaw] is your saw just like a woodworkers bandsaw? Also I notice a cople probs with the tile saw- it throws water[and glass powder] wet at you then it dries and becomes dust -so wear prtective glasses and an apron. another deal I encountered was the glass on the table of saw can scratch as you slide the glass across it.I wiped it clean every time and layed a shop towel under the glass to slide it on so it would eliminate that problem-Thanks -Kenny

[DrJ]

I was at Harbor Fright today and saw some Dremel size diamond discs (5) with arbor for $10.
Has anyone used these particular cutters?

[lulabelle]

No.I tried the regular cut offs though.I think my fingernail would be more effective! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gifI'd like to try them.

[k-member]

Also, when grinding a curved piece, like a W/S on a glass grinder, it's easier with two people who work well together, so one person can support the weight on the end not being ground. Those suckers can get pretty heavy after a while.

[lulabelle]

Bringing this back from the dead for "tech only week".

[choprods]

Is it true that any and all chips should be sanded smooth on all edges of a cut glass to prevent future cracks?

[Unkl Ian]

there was a thread ,I think by Customolds,on cutting windshields with a wet saw.
Might be in the TechOmatic.

[old beet]

Choprods, its true the smoother the edge, less likely to break. Thats why the rods are polished in big HP engines, same theory.............OLDBEET

[gofast62]

the flat glas in my 33 looks like its getting bubbles along the edges, what will stop this?

[old beet]

Nothing, moisture will continue to get in......OLDBEET

[Nimrod]

I'm totally ignorant on the subject but curious.
What are the differences in glass? Is gettig glass cut for a flat application no problem at all? Is it just curved that is difficult? What is tempered glass whats it used for (windshields? side windows?) and is it a more recent thing?
Lots of questions but I'm sure there are many of us who could use a quick lesson.

[choprods]

Nimrod-I think most all cars from65 and newer have had tempered side and rear glasses. its a safety"improvement"-I suppose...these can not be cut.
a curved glass[duoplate-two layers] can be cut but sometimes a lil tricky.
a flat door glass can be either tempered or laminated duoplate -it depends.....usually a mark in one coner designates the type and sometimes even the brand and DATE..........WHEN IS THIS POST WORTHY OF TECH-O-MATIC? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[old beet]

As a sidenote, curved vent windows and small quarter windows can be cut from a Windshield.........OLDBEET

[old beet]

Also for 49-52 chopped Chevs. Later Ford PU w/s glass has about the same curve, by laying your stock glass on top and moving it around to find the rite contour, a chopped w/s can be cut(2 piece). I've done it (in Austrilia where that glass is rare) and those w/s here are rather cheap......OLDBEET

[scarliner]

Nimrod, there are three main types of glass.1-plate glass -single pane or one thickness-used in house windows,ect.When this breaks,it usally breaks in large jagged,sharpe pieces,very dangerous.2-safety sheet-this is two thin layers of glass,with a sheet of plastic sandwiched between them,when this breaks,it usally just cracks,and the glass is held together with the thin sheet of plastic,thus keeping the glass from cutting you near as bad,thus the name safety sheet.This type of glass is used for side glass in older cars and all windshields,even the very newest cars.Reason?-plain and simple, this is designed, to help keep you from flying through the windshield in a bad wreck,you will get cut,but it may save your life.If it breaks,the sheet will hold it together,and hopefully, hold you in the car without hurting you too bad.3-Tempered glass-this is glass that has had a heat treat enduced process,which makes the glass very brittle,harder to break,but when it does,it shattters into thousands of tiny pieces.This glass is used in newer cars,60s up,used in side glasses and back glasses,for safety reasons.You can not cut this type of glass,if you try,it will just make a loud pop and break into many pieces.
Hope this answers some of your questions.

[redmeat]

<font color="red"> Damn BEETLE ...once again you prove why when anybody has a glass question I point them to you..you always have all the tricks!

R E D M E A T </font>

[Stevie G]

BTTT

[lilbill]

[ QUOTE ]
We have a bandsaw that uses a diamond blade and a water pump. The cuts are EXCELLENT, fast, easy, no breakage.

[/ QUOTE ]

Can you please give us some more info on this technique http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[zman]

All the tech to the top...

[lulabelle]

Back from waaaay long ago for nads.