changing 4 lug to 5 lug

[kustumizer]

How could i change my car from 4 lug to 5 lug without switching the rear end over and stuff. Seeing how i have drum brakes on front and the studs are on the drum could i try to find a different drum that would fit on there, and for the back could i just switch the axles? Any suggestions are welcome. Happy thanksgiving! Nate

[Ayers Garage]

You might want to remind everyone what kind of car you have. Without that, no ones going to be able to offer much advice.

[kustumizer]

Oh sorry Its a 62 mercury comet!

[desertratrodder]

There is little similarity with 4 and 5 lug setups on these cars, The rear ends are totally different. The little rear end is really not strong enough for the v-8. Adapting it to 5 lug would take so much work, if its even possible. The front is the same way. The 6 cyl ball joints, tierod ends, spindles, etc are much smaller. Your best bet is to find a POS v8 car for a few hundred bucks and switch it over. If you cant find a 63-65 Falcon or Comet for parts, A Granada should work, and has disc front brakes. The parts you will be changing are the whole rear end, both upper and lower control arms, tie rods, steering link, steering box, both spindles,drums, etc. It sounds like alot, but with a parts car, you can do it all in an afternoon. Good luck http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[kustumizer]

Thanks

[Rix2Six]

65-66 Mustangs share the same components.

[hillbillyhellcat]

Do what I did, buy a Ford Granada... V8s have slightly larger rotors in front, but it really doesn't matter. The rear end swapped in, i just had to drill new holes in the shock mounting plates and use larger u bolts - in the front I swapped in the disc brake spindles and used MustangSteve tie rod end adapters. The bump stops had to be trimmed down and the car had to be aligned. Use the Granada master cyl.

Other minor things included changing the drive shaft yoke and some brake line plumbing. Sounds like a lot of work, but it isn't that bad - and worth the better stopping power.

[flyin'eye]

I've gone the Granada route a couple of times.Sometimes the Granada swap is easy, sometimes it isn't. Ford changed ball joint sizes midway through 62. The early 62 uses a smaller ball joint than the granada, and the late ball joint won't fit the early control arm. It's a crapshoot. Granada stuff will either bolt on, or you'll wind up changing a lot of stuff. Don't mean to discourage you, but it helps to have as much info as possible.If this is your daily transportation, just be sure you leave yourself plenty of time for unforseen problems. Good luck!

[daddylama]

did this swap on a '61 comet i used to have... got a wrecked '65 mustang, and took everything off of it... put it on the comet...
everything from the A-arms out... the balljoints were of a different size than the comet's, so had to use the mustang a-arms.
i know '63 V8 comets have the larger balljoint a-arms, but pretty sure most all '62s and before have small balljoints...

[Kinky6]

Kustumizer, these guys have given you all of the basic info on this. You may want to also check out Fordsix.com. The "Brakes, Steering & Suspension" forum will have a ton of specific info on this swap, plus links to some specialized ball-joint adapters and related hardware.

Hope this helps, Kinky6 http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[praisethelowered]

Judging from your string of questions, first "lowering blocks?", then- "can I slacker-cut my front springs?", and now "how do i get a 5-lug rear?" it seems you are heading down the path of riteousness with this thing. Judgeing from your age and questions this may be your first car project (though maybe not- there are guys that start doing this stuff at birth practically).

I just want to second the advice of the full suspension and brakes swap. I collected all the parts mentioned above from a granadas, falcons, and mustangs cleaned and painted everything and swapped it all in one weekend on my daily driver. I would encourage you to jump in and do it all- it's a good time to cut down the front springs, replace worn ball joints, re-build the brakes and throw in new wheel bearings. On friday i was driving a squeaky, 2.75 geared, weak differentialed, nose-bleed high car with questionable brakes and on monday it was dropped, had great brakes and 3.5 gears and was essentially on "new" running gear. Do this stuff first and then you can move onb to engine upgrades and custom body work with good concience.

There are'nt too many cars that are as easy as comets/falcons that you can do all of that to as a bolt-in job. Tons of people have done it so if you read around on the web you can pretty much figure it all out before you pick up a wrench and it will go smoothly.

The board gets posts every few months from loosers with comets and four door galaxies who just want to cut the springs and paint them flat black and put a few stickers on them- don't be one of those guys and i'll respond to every post you put up with all that i know and so will others. Comets can be really cool and people will suport you and respect your ride if you do it right.

Post progress photos next and you will get even more encouragement. Do not ask anyone to photoshop your photos untill you have actually put in some work on it.

[metalshapes]

Going from 4 Bolt to 5 Bolt is relatively easy, IF you have the right steering parts.
Early Mustang stuff is not a straight bolt in.
It will fit, because the distance between the front box sections ( what would be the frame rails, if it was not a unibody ) is different from a Mustang, you will get bump steer.
If you cut and shorten the center tierod it is a little better, but not good.
Also, the steering colom is longer, so you would have to shorten that, or live with the steering wheel being to close.
Original Falcon/Comet V8 steering parts are very hard to find, and expensive when you do.
They make a aftermarket R&P setup for it now but it is even more expensive ( $2500 if I remember right )
A Hiundai R$P is almost exactly the right length to have no bumpsteer, but it has to be mounted offset to clear the V8, which limits the steering lock to the left,which was annoying enough for me to take it off as soon as I found rebuildable original stuff.
Other than that it works great.
If you are still learning, hire somebody who knows what they are doing to weld on any steering and brake components, dont take any chances with that!
A maverick rear end is a good fit, and Granada front spindles and discs work great for the front, and while you are at it, you might aswell use the Granada front srings too. ( cut down to get your ride hight )
If you use a offset mount for the M/C ( you would have to modify something off a bigger Ford ) you can use a double M/C and booster. ( you will have to cut and modify the driver side brace in the engine compartment )
A '65 Mustang exhaust pipe kit is a good fit, if you dent the kick panels a bit.
A V8 has enough torque to snap a 6 Cyl rear spring ( I've done it )
I hope this helps.
Have fun!!

[praisethelowered]

In my opinion the steering stuff isn't nearly that complicated- don't want you to get scared off. All of my steering parts came off a v-8 falcon. So I guess stay away from mustangs as donors per metalshapes advice. And there isn't such a thing as a hard to find falcon. The v8 facon pitman arm, center link, steering arms and idler arm all bolt up to your current steering box and will bolt right onto those Granada spindles. They are the right length and don't change the steering geometry at all. No welding. There is no reason to even think about changing the steering column.

And for the master cylinder you can bolt up a 78 mustang to the firewall on the existing bolts then just plumb it too the granada distribution block and off you go.No modification of the firwall brace necessary- it fits neatly behind it. A power brake booster is felt by a lot of people to be unecessary - when you get bigger front disk brakes on a car that light it stops on a dime without much pedal presssure.

If you are stumped on the front steering parts you can buy all of the v-8 falcon steering parts new as they are reproduced. I think NAPA can sell you everything but the centerlink and I think dearborn classics has those. it's just cheaper and more fun to get it all at a junkyard.

In the archives at fordsix.com you will find complete parts lists posted that will give a shopping list for all of this stuff.

Also- DON'T SWITCH TO V-8 - especially if it is a kustom. That I-6 can dress up real nice and sound rappy and good with a split header. I'm rebuilding mine right now and will post next week or so.

[metalshapes]

Praise, You are right about the steering box, I forgot about that.
There are two different sizes output shaft on the Falcon boxes, if I remember correctly.
But if you happen to have the right one, that part of the swap is easy.
If you have had no problem getting V8 Falcon steering parts, you have been very lucky, unless they sold more of them in your neck of the woods.
Around here they are as rare as hens teeth and most Falcon specialists want a core charge of at least $250 for the Idler arm alone.
And then they still complain about the people just paying that instead of sending a core back...

[praisethelowered]

I guess I got lucky. Falcons around here are like vws- a dead one in every other driveway it seems and comets are still the rockabily girlfriend car of choice - something about how well they go with those special ed. bangs haircuts. between us we could definitely get him through it-IF he is for real about it. I'd love to see more people actually follow through on comet kustoms.

[BUICKNAILHEAD]

Or you could simply get Set of CNC'd adapters made up for a lot less headache and you can still keep it original. Provided you have the wheel clearance. Cost in Canadian dollars for a set of four is $250...4 bolt to 5 bolt. easy

[flyin'eye]

unless you're putting a v-8 in it, what's the point of the 5 bolt anyway? I know wheel selection is a bunch better, but steels with caps are cooler than cragers, anyway. I know the brakes will be better, but geez. I drive my 62 Ranchero every day, all the underpinnings are stock.

[praisethelowered]

eye- I guess you are right but there is a big might-as-well factor with that stock suspension if you do want 5-lugs.

Also, that single reservoir MC is a death waiting to happen. My brakes went out on an off ramp and I blew through a red light without stopping when i lost one wheel cylinder. Never again.

[flyin'eye]

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for upgrading in the name of safety, the dual master cylinder is probably more important than discs or 5 lugs. My point was that if it's his only car, and he's pretty young, maybe the 5 lug conversion was something that could wait...........

[metalshapes]

Flyin', maybe it can wait, but he was asking about it...
If that's what he wants to do, for whatever reason, I'll help him with advise if I can.
I have never driven a 6 Cyl Falcon, so I don't know what they are like.
But a V8 Falcon that's built right is pretty damn nice, IMO.

[flyin'eye]

He mentioned he was trying to do it without changing the rearend, that makes me think he's not interested in a major undertaking. Either way, there's lots of guys here who are willing to help him out, all 17 year old guys should be so lucky!

[praisethelowered]

We all may be more interested in this topic than Kustumizer- not a peep from him.

[BUICKNAILHEAD]

hence the bolt on adapters http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[flyin'eye]

Adapters would be easy, but remember that early Falcons and comets have a pretty small wheelwell area, and most originally came with 13" wheels. Spacing the wheels out even a small amount, combined with lowering the car, may cause clearance problems.

[metalshapes]

It sure looks that way, Praisethelowered.
Kustomizer is long gone.
But hey! We are having a good time...

[kustumizer]

hey guys im interested in this topic ive just been gone all weekend and have not been able to get to a comp. I appreciate all your guys input, i was just asking what is easiest. Why put a lot of work in if you dont have too. I dont mind doing major stuff eitheir. Ive done alot of cars even though im 17. Thanks guys Nate

[kustumizer]

Hey guys. What year cars should i be looking for, to use parts from? Thanks

[kustumizer]

Hey where can i get that split header for my 200 str8 6?

[metalshapes]

Hey Kustomizer!
I dont know the exact years for the Maveric and Granada parts, but I dont think they changed that much over the years.

[hillbillyhellcat]

1970 and later Maverick/Comet, the '70 may only have 4 lugs, not sure off hand. 1975-1979 Granada/Monarch (pre-fox body, it will have 5 lug wheels). You may have to compare similarities or just buy a donor and swap whatever it takes so it will all work.

I like to suggest these cars because they are cheaper to scrounge parts from and replacement parts are cheap. Some stuff on the older donors is becoming hard to come by, thus more expensive.

Wheel adapters probably won't work, at least on a lowered Falcon/Ranchero/Fairlane, etc. The rear quarters on most of these cars have the lower wheel opening, wheels that will stick out some won't fit.

As for a split header, one is available at fordsix.com, check out the forums - I have a Clifford Dual outlet that works pretty well and the car sounds great, the 250 makes a sound that's out of this world http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[flyin'eye]

Hellcat, what are you using for exhaust behind that thing? I just finished a split manifold for mine, I'm trying to decide what to do for pipes. Sorry to hijack the post...

[falconeer]

Kustumizer

Go to Falcon EastCar Club web site,go to media ctr. Then you will go to comet articles then to 61 comet up grade by Mike Schnur. this will give all the info you need for 5 lug and or v8 up grade . What he says ,you can take to the BANK,

But ch Evans (Falconeer)
Thomasville n.c.