Buick brakes on ford spindles...part 1..pics

[Rocky]

Mecutem sent the buick backing plate to 37-48 ford spindle-adapters and they arrived today in the mail. I busted out to the garage to begin the process of bolting 58-60 Buick brakes, complete with the buick backing plates, to the ford spindles....When I opened the box, I was pleasantly surprised...the machine work was flawless.

[Rocky]

I cleaned a few burrs and some variprime off the spindle lip to find the fit the adapters to the spindle....

[Rocky]

They fit flush on the spindle and all the bolt holes lined up perfectly.........

[Rocky]

I'm using 41-48 spindles and there's a little "bulge" at the top of the spindle that came in contact with the inside of the buick backing plate...will need to be dressed a bit with a grinder...........

[Rocky]

Touches on the outside of the plate right here...

[Rocky]

In this view, ther are several things to look at....most obvious is the difference in bolt patterns between the spindle and the backing plate. I'll weld up the buick holes in the backing plates and redrill to ford pattern..
Another is the top of the spindle touching the backing plate before grinding and lastly, it's tough to make out but there's a gap between the adapter and the backing plate. It's because the plate won't sit flush on the adapter yet.....reason being, the hole in the center of the backing plate is only 2" I.D. and the lip it has to fit over, on the adapter, is 2.5"... I gotta take the plates to my machinist to have the buick hole opened up to 2.5 inches, plus a thousanths or two so it won't stick on the adapter...

[Rocky]

more.....

[Rocky]

the hole in plate

[Rocky]

I'll post my progress as I do more....after I get the plates back from the machinist......
To be continued..........

[Tuck]

dude this is going to the tech-o-matic for sure.

Good job rocky... nothings bolt-on thanks for posting the pics... that rules! ill do the same thing w/ the F250 plates http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

tuck

[Max Gearhead]

Excellent info and definitely Tech-O-Matic material here! Keep it coming Rocky!
Max

[Rocky]

ok, boys but my machinist isn't a real ball-o-fire when it comes to getting it done fast. He's suffering bad health and only ventures out to his garage/shop when he feels good........A little patience please....

[mecutem]

......your doing great! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[TheRev]

Hey Rocky!!how's this for a crappy reaction time? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gifwere you serious about that 57 snowflake?
the Reverand
(promise i'll get back to ya in less than amonth)LMAO

[Rocky]

Rev........57 snowflake? Wassa 57 snowflake? The conversation seems to have slipped my mind for the present......uhhhhhhhhhhhhh, I forgot. Refresh my memory..what there is of it.
57 snowflake....this oughta be good....

[choprods]

Hay Rocky- Just take a die grinder and by-pass the machinist! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gifWe caint wait!!

[Rocky]

Believe me Kenny........it's tempting but to drill the new ford-pattern mount holes, I need that plate to fit tight around the lip on the adapter..that's what's gonna center the backing plate on the spindle for effective brakes...
You DO want my brakes to work ok, right?

[C9]

Mr. Rocky ... most excelente tech post.

Impressive.

[Rocky]

Mecutem has brought it to my attention: The locator ring on the adapter is 3.5" in diameter, not the 2.5" marked on it. DOH! I knew I'd screw it up somewhere! Sorry.......

[TheRev]

hya rocky; rev here. back some time ago on another guys intro,i mentioned i had 1 '57 VW tail light and you said you were lookin for one,wasn't sure if you were serious or not http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif,thought i'd best check.
the reverand

[Rocky]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh...yes! Yeah, I'd like to score a mate for the one I have, even tho mine has one busted off tang where the wire bail holds the tailight-body into it's housing..I remember you said you also had one..so who's gonna sell their lone tailight? I'd rather it was you. Is yours complete with it's metal housing? Wanna sell or trade?
Can't believe I forgot about that! CRS strikes yet again.

[TheRev]

Geez man,i was starting to wonder if had it wrong http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif(also a crs sufferer).ya ,i met the other fella and he said he doesnt need it so it's yours for the havin,if ya want i'll PM you my phone #,and we'll come up with a plan.and yeh it's complete housing and all. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
the Reverand

[Rocky]

I got a little time after work to play with the buick brakes today....I needed to enlarge the center hole in the backing plate to fit over the locater lip on the aluminum adapter. Needed to open the hole up to 3.5"........

[Rocky]

Not having a machinist handy, I decided to use a 3.5" hole saw on the backing plate but I needed to have a 1/4" pilot hole right in the middle of the existing buick hole. I found an old plug made from using a hole saw on some 3/16ths inch material in the past. The plug was just the right size to fit into the recessed lip around the existing center hole. That centered it...

[Rocky]

I tacked that baby in place:

[Rocky]

And carried the whole mess over to the drill press. Alas, my drill press is just a little too small for a 12 inch backing plate. Wouldn't fit in all the way..

[Rocky]

So, I went to plan B.....the trusty Milwaukie 1/2" variable speed, hand-held drill motor.....I clamped the backing plate in my vise and tried to hold the drill from walking around. I even lubed up my pilot [a non-threaded section of a 1/4" bolt] with never sieze [TM] and went slow...

[Rocky]

I don't like the fit at all.........and the hole is about 50-60 thousanths off center.... Not real surer which way I go from here but I think I'll seek professional assistance for the other backing plate. I also have another pair of 59 Buick plates I was saving for the rear axle and I may have to use one of those to finish up the installation..
Shit doesn't always go smoothly in the Rocky Garage but that's ok. I learn through my mistakes. More later when I can get some more time ahead to play with this stuff...

[lakes modified]

Rocky: where can one get a pair of the spacers?. guess i missed some of the posts along the way to know how to get them.
thanks

[Rocky]

Mecutum [sp] has them... he posts here on occasion and has his e-mail addy in his profile.....

[Fat Hack]

Great tech post Rocky! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Hell, if everything went as smoothly as many magazine or TV show "projects" would have you believe, then EVERYONE would be building cars...instead of just the die-hards!!

Set-backs, goofs and oopsies are just a part of the whole experience! You're on par, Bro! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Can't wait to see more! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Rocky]

SMALL UPDATE! I got the top of the spindle ground down so the adapter fits flush against the face of the spindle. This allowed me to mock up the assembly. I was dreading this step because everything I read said you hadda use 41-48 hubs on the OUTSIDE of the drum. It was said if you used 40 hubs on the inside of the drums, the drum wouldn't cover the backing plate and you'd be able to see the brake shoes through the resulting gap! Well, I'm here to tell ya that's bullshit. It's a good thing, too because I have 40 hubs...sent my 48's off to Tuck in exchange for a nifty 54 Lincoln dash.
I'll whip up some photos tomorrow after I charge up the digi camera batterys...
BTW, using 40 front hubs on the inside deletes one machining procedure, The drums fit the backing plates properly and no machine work is needed for the edge of the drums to clear the backing plates. They fit like factory!
I still need to drill my drums to 5 on 5.5" and have adapter rings made up for the drum centers....I'm gettin there! Oh, and I need to bolt my drums to my 40 hubs...stay tuned.

[Flat Ernie]

[ QUOTE ]
BTW, using 40 front hubs on the inside deletes one machining procedure, The drums fit the backing plates properly and no machine work is needed for the edge of the drums to clear the backing plates. They fit like factory!


[/ QUOTE ]

Rocky,

Just what I thought when I mocked up my F250 setup w/40 hubs & Buick drums on the outside. Go back & double check that the drum is actually sitting all the way down on the hub. I found the hub to be slightly too large for the flat machined surface on the inside of the drum & consequently the drum was sitting ever so slightly up off the hub.

Mock up the spindle/hub/drum & have a look up inside & you'll see what I mean. Take that handy vis-a-vis marker and run it around the outside corner of the hub & put the drum back on and you'll see where the hub contacts the drum. On mine, it was just outside the machined area where the drum started to taper inwards...

Oh yeah, while you're making up adapter rings for the drum centers, can ya make up an extra pair?

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Skate Fink]

Rocky.......OUTSTANDING post! My dumb ass can even keep up with what you are doing. Thanks!! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Rocky]

Hey Ernie...When I had my drums checked at the brake shop last summer, I took the hubs with me and had 'em trimmed to fit the flat boss inside the drum....it's been so long ago, I plumb forgot to even mention it! Sheeit, I'll never be a good tech-journalist. I guess with the mistakes and omissions made on this post, [not to even think of the mispellings and bad grammar] it'll have to be considered a rough draft. In a nut shell:
GOOD:I've already had the outside of the hubs turned down
BAD: I forgot to include that info in the text....
Today, [Sunday before Christmas--wish me luck!] I'll attempt to get some more done on the project and post photos of it, including a photo and outside measurement of the front hubs after turning. DUH!

[tommy]

Rocky, I had to cut the inner lip of the Buick drums to clear the Ford backing plates. My drums were mounted the same way you did it. I know you are using Buick backing plates... but the same hub system will work for the early Ford B/plates too with the inner lip trimmed a bit.

[Flat Ernie]

Rocky,

I can't take credit for that, Tommy mentioned it to me when I posted my F250 pics a couple months ago.

Out of curiosity, how much did you have to take off the OD of the hub? Alternatively, how much meat is left between the bolt holes & the edge of the hub? I only ask because my caliper doesn't go quite that big & using the tape measure & eyeball, it looked like it might start getting a little thin. I had considered beveling the outer edge of the hub so as not to take all the meat away (does any of this make sense or am I rambling again?)

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Rocky]

No, it makes perfect sense to me, Ernie. You are thinking of beveling the hub to match the bevel of the inside of the drum. I was working with a couple of drum-turning hacks on a basic 60 year old drum lathe. No computer controlled machine here..just very basic hand controls with no recordings of how much was taken off. Like I said earlier in the post, I'll measure what the diameter of the hub is now, after turning off enough material to fit inside the drum.
I can tell you this: we turned the outside diameter down intil we began hitting the wheel stud bosses. That was enough to fit the hub into the drum and it fit flush against the drum. That leaves .250 [1/4"] of material between the stud holes and the new outside edge of the hub. I feel this is safe as you still have the entire raised boss preserved. Photos at 11, after I get my house cupboard shelving-project finished. The missus just doesn't understand I need time to do HAMB projects at the same time she needs my time for home projects.
Score:
Home team-1.
HAMB team-0.
See ya's later..........