Whatever happened to honor?

[av8]

Over the years, old-Ford hot-rod guru Vern Tardel has developed some nifty problem-solving parts to help folks building their rides with Henry hardware. He's made them affordable, adding only a reasonable and usually very modest markup over his manufacturing costs.

One of those parts is a brake-drum retainer that captures the flange on the drum and prevents it -- and the wheel -- from leaving the car in the event of an axle breaking. Not only is it effective, it's also a super-easy install thanks to Vern's cleverness.

Vern sells the retainers direct to the customer as well as to parts dealers at a reasonabale discount. His biggest single customer over the years was Speedway Motors, a good customer that ordered and sold a fair number of the retainers.

Their reorder routine ceased not long ago, and Vern thought it was a little odd, but otherwise didn't pay it much mind. Then, last week when he was going through the provided parts a customer brought in with his car that is scheduled for final assembly and fettling at Vern's shop, he opened a Speedway box and discovered . . . brake-drum retainers. Yes, identical to Vern's but gold irridite plated instead of vern's black-oxide coating, and bearing a little gold sticker proclaiming "Made in Taiwan." BTW, a sticker on the outside of the Speeway box proudly proclaims "MADE IN THE USA."

Things must be tight at Speedway for Speedy Bill to rip off one of the very good little guys who has been supporting his end of the hobby for many years.

[30roadster]

that really pisses me off! hope speedway reads the forum...I personally don't need anything they've got!

[296 V8]

not good Bill

[Unkl Ian]

And I WAS planning on ordering some stuff from them.Suddenly,I've changed my mind.
They will go right at the top of the Shit list,right beside Eastwood.Another Theiving Bastard outfit.

[201]

I wonder if it is some cost cutting purchasing personnel trying to make himself look good for three cents he saved the corporation and "Speedy" doesn't know anything about it.

[hatch]

Apparently, Speedway is using American made boxes...and nothing else

[Rocky]

Uh-oh....this is one I don't need to get into....it's kinda like having 2 of your friends fighting. If you take sides, you lose at least one friend.
I can understand both sides. ON one hand, you have the guy selling to a big retailer at a nice discount and the guy starts repopping his part.
On the other hand, you have a bidnessman trying to make a living selling parts.....sees the part can be made cheaper without breaking any copyright laws and goes for it...
Hmmmmmmmmm.......I suppose the box was made in the USA, eh?

[Greezy]

Since Jason his son is VPand GM of operatons Im sure he knows. That sucks big time.

[Deuce Rails]

That's just GAY!

And speaking of gay, here's a shot of the late, almost great, but definitely gay Truman Capote. Does he look like anyone we know?

http://www.jimmccrary.com/pages/page7/images/05capote.jpg

I'm just kidding. Just because Speedy Bill Smith looks like Truman Capote doesn't mean that Speedy Bill is anally raping anyone.

Ripping off Vern Tardell's design, however, does mean that Speedy Bill is anally raping someone.

Mike, doesn't Vern have any proprietary rights to his design?

--Matt

[SamIyam]

What is at the root of this problem is something that is at the root of many problems in the USA...

That is, car parts are REDICULOUSLY CHEAP these days... I'm talking about parts that the aftermarket industry sells.

If you can find the answer as to why the price of an intake manifold hasn't gone up in the last 20 years... you'll find the answer as to why an upstanding busuinessman like Vern is getting "back door'd" by some Tiawaneese company seeling these things for 25 cents apiece...

I have to laugh when somone bitches about a hot rod being "too rich for my blood" at $15,000 or even $10,000... When I finished my '55 Chevy in 1989 (paint, interior, chrome ETC.) I had ten grand in it... and that was doing it almost all at home, paying for it by working at the local burger stand for $3.75 an hour!
Bottom line is... when people "price shop" that drives the price down of "stuff"... then, in order to "stay competitive" (read, make more money) or sometimes just even to stay in buisiness... all the service, quality and the stuff some of us like and can afford... goes out the window.

If you have bought from speedway, you have more than likely bought there because they offer the best prices... I know I have... but with that, comes a price... something we are unaware of... until now.
Sam

[Roothawg]

Man sounds prett crappy to me. MAybe I spend too much money at Speedway. Does Vern sell direct to anyone? If so does he have a catalog? I'll drive 10 miles out of my way to avoid places like WalMart, Target etc.

I have a friend that owns a lumberyard in our town. He and his brother and dad run it. I never ask for a buddy discount because I don't want him to feel obligated, it's his livelyhood. Very seldom do I shop at Home Depot or Lowe's just because I like to help the local businessman. You have to or you will be slaves to the coorperate America, that is eating Mainstreet,USA as we speak.
Sorry for the rant. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

[Roothawg]

Dropped em a line and told em they need to explain if they have a backbone. We'll see.

[quickrod]

someone has to pass this thread on to speedway bill,he needs to see people are aware he's doing this shit.maybe he'll read this while he's shittin in boxes and marken em "made in usa"and come to his senses....the dick.

[Roothawg]

I added the link to the thread but I am not sure if the link will work on one of those "comment" boxes.

[ESnacky6]

That's fucked up for sure...

People who invent things really need to
patent/trademark/copyright their stuff right away..!!

esp. in the automobile aftermarket industry..!!!

I hope this gets resolved the right way...

[old beet]

Same thing happened to my buddy "UNKL AL", ripped off with his "DOOR GO'S" and other parts. In his case , someone found the supplier, didn't change anything..just cut his throat........OLDBEET

[quickrod]

roothawg thats kool,did you e-mail or call direct?if so post the numbers so we can call too...im out quickrod

[Dooley]

I'm pretty sure that was why Jake Jaocbs got out of Pete and Jakes...

If my memory serves me correct he squirreled himslef away and made up all of those 35-48 Ford brackets, steering box mount to ford frame, engine mounts, paralel leaf set up, etc... and within as short time everyone else copied his stuff and was selling it as well.

[tredboy]

hey speedway...

thanks but no thanks!

[fab32]

This is why Speed Bill is so rich, taking advantage of situations just like you've described. I subcontracted the building of oval track products for Howe Racing Enterprises here in Michigan. Early in the game Speedway ordered parts from us (Howe) that were Howe designes and included them in their catalog. After awhile the orders from Speedway stopped and we wondered why. The answer was as close as their next catalog. They had their own manufacturing facility duplicate the parts and cut Howe out of the equation. They got to employ (or keep employed) their people and made money off Howe's design without sharing the profit with anyone. Pretty clever as those products were not patented and Howe had no recourse.
I used to walk into Bill's shop in Lincoln,NE when I was 13/14 years old when I was downtown buying model airplanes. When I'd go in there Bill would lean over the counter and ask what I wanted. The reply was "I'm just looking", at which time I was asked to leave if I wasn't going to buy anything. This wasn't a friendly request, more like an order. Bill's shop at the time was just a small place, today he has an empire. From a business standpoint its hard to argue with his success, Bill chose a somewhat hardnose approach. I'm sure he sleeps well at night.

[Unkl Ian]

From the Speedway site
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/eCCStoreFront/smi/product_images/medium/91031365.jpg

Early Ford Brake
Drum Retainer

If you snap an axle in your non-safety-hub-equipped '39-'48 Ford rear end, you can stop the loss of the brake drum and axle stub with this kit. Includes 2 brackets and hardware.


#91031365 $19.95 !

[av8]

Vern does sell all of his parts direct to the consumer. At present he has catalog sheets for each of his products (we just finished new ones last week that are all nice and uniform. We'll be working on a catalog this Winter. Keep in mind that Vern's offerrings are flathead hot-rod specific, so if that's not your direction you probably won't find much to interest you, other than the neat art-deco ashtray or the quick-change key fob.

I doubt that Speedy Bill has any knowledge of the decision to go off-shore to make a few extra bucks. I feel it's a bean-counter decision . . . at least that's what I'd like to think; I've long considered Speedy Bill a friend of the budget racer and hot rodder.

[Rocky]

And Speedy Bill isn't the only one doin it either. When my brother worked for Bob Drake, he was trying to manufacture, finish and package as many parts as he could right here in the US. His prices were not competitive with the rest of the industry, so he began sending work to indonesia and Tiwan. The quality suffers but he's staying competitive with the "other guys". People want low prices first...quality second. It's a fact of business life but it's still a damn shame.

[50mercfan]

the quest for the almighty dollar makes people make shity decisions somtimes. but i hate to think i've got fucking sweatshop SAFETY parts on my car. speedybill couldn't charge 25 or 30 dollars for a better part? i guess those brake retainers will get tested properly when someones axle breaks. hope it's not yours. fuck speedy bill

[DrJ]

What pisses me off is when I pay a premium price for something and STILL get the off-shore made crap.
At the present rate i wonder how long it's going to be before our military ordinanace is made in Taiwan or mainland China?
That is, if it isn't already!

The real winner in this game is still the big ugly brown UPS truck

[k9racer]

Just to add one more thing. Bill claimes he is the oldest speed shop on the planet. Well he is not, the Rocco and Cheaters Speed shop in Birmingham Alabama has been in contionus operation since 1946. Thats 2 years longer than Speedways 1948.Several letters were sent to Bill to advise to stop this untruth but he has not replied. Oh yes R&C owner and manger is HAMB member Pinstriper, Sam.

[gettingreasy]

This is a lil' OT but look at the aftermarket products for bikes, very expensive compared to automotive. It's rediculous that I can buy a 502 GM crate motor for what I could buy a 2 cylinder under 100 horse power H-D motor. What gives, the quality is on the same par to each other, and that big block will be running reliably way longer than that EVO would. Or look at something as simple as wheels, a stock replacment 16 inch H-D wheel caosts twice as much as a nice aftermarket wheel for a car, and that OEM wheel is probably made in Mexico anyway. Sorry for the rant this kinda shit just really buggs me and is why people will dive absolute shit, they just can't afford a nice ride(or at least keep it nice).
-Jesse

[bobbleed]

Speedway is like Wall Mart. Everything there does the job, but kind of sucks.

I guess if I was manufacturing something to sell to Wall Mart I would make sure it had a patent. I would also only sell to them under some sort of contract.

Speedway has only done their job.
Suppling cheap usable parts to fags like us.

Selling parts to Speedway, or buying parts from Speedway has nothing to to with honor. It's all about cost.

It sucks that Speedway had to go to tiawan to keep the parts cheap enough for us to keep buying them.

If Vern was smart he would have manufactured the pieces in Tiawan in the first place.........

If he was TRULY honerable he would have never sold them to a place like Speedway in the first place.

I mean no disrespect, but Speedway is motivated by cost. That is the only reason people buy from them. There really isn't anything in that catolog that couldn't be found or bought from the "little guy." The convience and savings is what drives people to buy from them, just like the rest of America who buys from Wall Mart instead of a Ma and Pa type place.

Bottom line, if he would have patented the parts, he could have liscened them to Speedway for them to make where ever they wanted.

[redmeat]

<font color="red"> DrJ....remember a guy named John Walker?....he was the faggot asshole who sold secrets to the Russians...one of the things he sold to the ruskies was the angles and curvatures of US submarine screws(propellors for you non-seamen)........the point to this little rant?....the reason the Russians wanted the info was because they already had bought the tools for doing it from Mitsubishi Corporation...yes top secret parts machining tools were being made by a Japanese company!!....and that was back in the late 80's early 90's........lots of our munitions are built in foreign countries .......if we went to war against Mexico we would have to watch what plants we bombed as we would be shutting down or our militaries parts supply!

CHEW ON THAT SHIT FOR AWHILE!!!!

R E D M E A T </font>

[Kilroy]

I thought Honor died in the 70's and we started kicking it to make damn sure it was dead in the 80's...

Today we just keep the corpse around as a bad joke about a by-gone era.

Point being, there hasn't been honor in business for a long time. I'm sure Vern could sue but he won't cause it'd cost too much and that's what big busineses like Speedway count on.

I bet Vern knew somewhere in the back of his head that this might happen... But then again I'm just a cynical fuck.

[Deyomatic]

I ordered what appeared to be a classy looking set of seat belts from speedway a while back, the pic on the internet showed them being silver, I think, or black with a silver button. When they show up I was horrified, they were black but instead of a nondescript silver release button, they had a big orange button that said, "PRESS" in the middle.
LAME.
So this post is my second reason to look elsewhere first.

[zibo]

<font color="blue">I think they took the HOT ROD WORKS idea for the open shaft banjo rearends. (if not and HRW is making for them than pardon me) since than,(and having received items that were not like the pictures) I have slowly tried to take anything speedway off my car. </font> travis aka zibo

[reefer]

I`m surprised to see that Bob Drake out sources some stuff overseas, I always make a point of seeking out his products as I believed they were U.S.made and premium quality and was prepared to pay the extra because of this.I have a pair of those shorty chrome P&amp;J shocks and the chrome litrally fell off in my hand(no copper, nickel)just chrome, total crap.As you guys probably know from other U.K. threads we pay approx, 50% more for the same product that you buy in the States(import duty,tax etc.)so it`s double annoying when the stuff you get is nearly always below the quality expected.Opened the garage door one day and found the grill badge fallen off...found the old box"made in Tiawan".
As regards the bracket in question that Vern makes, I can`t understand why anyone would buy said bracket when you could make one real easy by the looks of it, but I get the point AV8 is making, there really is a general lack of respect for anything these days apart from being a money grabbing s,o,b...that old buisness is buisness excuse really is used to cover a lot of sharp practice i.m.o,

[Carps]

No disrespect to Vern, but a similar brake drum retainer is listed in my '35 Ford Parts Catalogue as a genuine Ford Accessory item.

No matter, what Speedway Motors has done to Vern still sucks. If they wanted to save a few bucks, why not go to the supplier and let him know they can make it for whatever and at least give Vern the opportunity to continue supply for the lower price. That's the way the Japanese do it.

[dusty]

Sorry to hear that. Just looked at that particular item in Speedway as I thought it would be a great safety item. Looks like Vern will have to get a call from the Show Me state.
O/T sorta put related. Went to Jar Head graduation at MCRD for our son a couple of years ago. They have a small px thing for recruits only to buy their needed items. Went over their with the boy only to find that the back of the store and the outside was stacked with made in Taiwan boxes. Obviously for all the items on sale in the px. Didnt see 1 box marked made in the good ole US of A. Hard to believe that our own military is fighting wars with crap made in Taiwan. End of saopbox!!!

[hatch]

DrJ...guess who was making ordinance parts for the gov't in the seventies?....the same company that was cranking out the most horrible piece of shit motorcycles ever built...HD(AMF)....they had an 80% failure rate of motorcycles coming off the line. Thats 80% that never left the factory with out getting partially repaired. I wonder how good the bomb stuff was???

[Fat Hack]

It's gotten to be the same in every industry. Nobody worries about ANYTHING except the quick dollar. Car companies make sub-par automobiles and leave it to the dealer technicians to handle their fuck-ups. The dealer technicians are under pressure from their service managers to blow the shit out the door whether or not the problem is fixed. After a few trips to the dealer, the customer resorts to a chain repair joint who does the same thing. The cycle continues until the customer fixes the problem(s) himself or takes it to a rare mechanic who actually FIXES cars!

I speak from experience, having been a dealer technician and a tire store grease monkey! I had many clashes with my service managers involving customer cars that I kept in my stalls longer than they thought was profitable to make sure the problem was fixed correctly. I had the highest customer satisfaction rating of any technician in the dealership, but all I heard from the bosses was "just crank 'em out FASTER and don't sweat the details"!!

Now, I drive an example of this philosophy. The car was purchased used from Enterprise (the rental car company) and they boasted about how they give all of their used vehicles a thorough safety inspection. I took delivery of the car with a broken rear spring, undisclosed and improperly fixed collision damage hidden behind the rear bumper cover, and an exhaust system issue that has become a bigger problem now. All things that a 12 year old moron could have spotted if the car had ACTUALLY been safety inspected!

But...I have no doubts that Enterprise PAID for an inspection from their repair facility up the road....it's just that the job was never done, or was done poorly in the interest of a fast buck.

"Do SOMETHING (or nothing!) and pass it on" is the thinking used by 98% of businesses today. "Let someone else take responsibility for it...long as we get OUR piece of the action!".

Ever try to have your exhaust system repaired at a muffler joint? They won't do it if it involves the exhaust manifold, or if the car is older than a certain year...or any other of a number of excuses....

"Waaaaahhhh....the studs might break, it's OLD!"
"Waaaaahhhh....it's got RUST on it!"
"Waaaaahhhh....we might get our chrome tools dirty!"
"Waaaaahhhh....manifolds are HARD to do!"

Fuck it...nobody wants to sell you a SERVICE any more...they just want you to PAY them for their share of your time which they waste doing as little as possible to collect the payday! It's everywhere...from utility companies to burger joints to medical care to construction to automotive related industries. Everybody wants to maximize profits while minimizing effort..."Fuck the customer, as long as WE get paid".

Honor? Quality? SERVICE?

Long dead and burried.

[Mike]

That's a pretty crappy deal, but that's pretty much the way of business.

That reminds me, I need a set of those retainers. I reckon I'll be contacting Vern real soon.

[Mike Landwehr]

Not much to ad ,its been said ,but the reality is nothing is made here anymore if its avail. off shore , our jobs are dissapearing on a daily basis,hell, even Levi's the leader in american made went offshore(china) w its production.No excuse for shiting on an old supplier tho ,some kind of concession or at the very least notification could have been made.

[Hot Rod To Hell]

Now what I'm about to say will probably piss a lot of you guys off, but oh well! What speedway did, that's just fucked up and wrong, I'm all about supporting the small businessman. BUT being from Flint, where GM got it's start, I can tell you I TOTALLY understand why the General is making all of their shit in Mexico (and elsewhere). GM moving (mostly) out of Flint has fucked our economy, and a ton of people lost their jobs, but you know what? It's the God Damn UAW's fault! Let's say you own a company, and your employees are almost always sleeping, drunk, high, or coked up on the job, if they actually show up (many have a friend punch 'em in and out, or go in, punch in, and leave). While they are at work they bitch, because for their $35 an hour they have to push a button on the machine 3 times every minute. SLAVE LABOR!!! for such an insignificant wage they should only have to push the button twice a minute, right? Then, because there really is strength in numbers, these assholes strike, and the UAW backs 'em up, until this shit actually changes! Ok. So you have all these drunk junkies that won't work a REAL day to save their lives, and you're paying them EXTREMELY well, and giving them one hell of a benefits package. That just makes 'em want more. But then you think about it, you've got all these little mexican dudes...... I bet they can push the button just as well as the fat, lazy american, and since they haven't had the job for 30 years, they'll be proud of it, AND bust ass for you. You know if you pay them $5 an hour american, that's GOOD money to them. So think about it; Would you want the lazy, whiny bitch for $35 an hour, or the proud, hard worker for $5????? Think about that mister union. You fucked yourself. The general's been making your deal better and better, but you'll never be TOTALLY happy, so FUCK YOU!

[Hot Rod To Hell]

BTW: Sorry guys, I woke up in a bad mood! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[Tman]

Yup, Joe Sixpac and his Unions is partly to blame for this, I agree. The only way this will change though is if our whole Society changes and thinks. I admit, I ordered a spring from Speedway this last week. It was $40 cheaper than my WHOLESALE price (I work in a shop). Plus, they are 2 days from me. My own suppliers cant get it here that fast w/o paying for extra shipping! I actually tried to spend the money in town. The cost of having a spring made? $25 to roll each eye=$50, $20 materials, $35 shop fee. Total $105. I paid $84 dolers including shippind to get my Speedway sring here.

Point? I am not any different than the next person, I shop price on many occasions. What was my point? I dunno, that sucks that Vern is getting bypassed but Speedy has been doing that for years.

[Fat Hack]

Hey HRTH....

You said it!!! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Unions carry the weak and lazy and drive prices through the roof for everybody. Sure, if not for unions, these pillars of the community would never be able to afford their drug habits and new bling-mobiles...so they'll fight to keep them in control.

I interviewed for what sounded like a good job with decent pay in a local joint that did custom fabrication a few years ago. I jumped through all the hoops and spent a week filling out forms and taking a drug screen...passing three interviews until I finally got the green light and was given a shop tour the day before I was supposed to start work.

After the tour concluded, the supervisor said something about meeting the union rep to sign a few forms or something. I said "Whoa, wait a minute...this is a UNION shop??"

He looked puzzled, but answered, "Well, yeah...we're affiliated with the UAW."

I threw my arms up in disgust and blurted out, "I wish you woulda mentioned that a WEEK ago...you could have saved me lots of time and hassle. I don't work union!". And I stomped off. My fault for not asking sooner, but now that's the first thing I inquire of a prospective employer!

[ELpolacko]

Honor died years ago with trust and common sense.

I have recieved letters from Speedway about some of the product I make. I passed after talking to people that make product for them. Simmilar stories to be had everywhere.

One other company to watch for that has even more draconian business practices, Master Power Brakes.

I make a brake pedal kit that mounts the power booster on the firewall for post war Ford and Chevy pickups. Several companies have shown interest in buying them from me to compliment thier aftermarket power booster/master cylinder kits. MP was one of those companies and they wanted to make a huge order. Only problem was HE dictated what he would pay. He also told me that they expect his cost to drop 5% every year and that if I don't play game with him he will copy my product and then undercut my advertized price by a significat amount.

Nice tactic and great salesmanship right? Well, if you look at his ad my stuff aint in it.

[Unkl Ian]

[ QUOTE ]
MP was one of those companies and they wanted to make a huge order. Only problem was HE dictated what he would pay. He also told me that they expect his cost to drop 5% every year and that if I don't play game with him he will copy my product and then undercut my advertized price by a significat amount.


[/ QUOTE ]
He's been taking lessons from The Big Three,and Wallmart.
Another name added to the list. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

[visor]

Hey Mike maybe this will make Vern feel a little better.

I bought a pair of those retainers from speedway about
a year ago thinking they were Verns.

They were marked Made in Tiawan, and I thought man what
kind of shit is this? Well now I know.

They are junk! They don't fit right! I threw one so far
out in the woods, it will never be found.

T.Ed bought some also and had the same problem!
I'm not for sure how far he threw his!

If you buy a part from Speedway with out a brand name
on it, you can bet its imported!

Hey Greezy..... How many parts have you bought from
Speedway that didn't fit?
.................................................. .........
"OPOSSUM BENDERS"
Central Missouri Chapter

[zonkola]

Quality isn't dead, you just have to seek it out. In my experience it's usually the smaller shops run by a strong personality that really care about it. (Once an operaton grows past a certain size it becomes increasingly difficult--although not impossible--to maintain quality.)

If Vern's product is quality and Speedway's isn't, then you owe it to your car to spend the extra dollars. Think of it as both a purchase and a vote for quality.

[cool57]

[ QUOTE ]
Same thing happened to my buddy "UNKL AL", ripped off with his "DOOR GO'S" and other parts. In his case , someone found the supplier, didn't change anything..just cut his throat........OLDBEET

[/ QUOTE ]

Unkl Al is the the rip-off?.....or the rip-ee?

[55olds88]

I see there being a number of sides to all this, the first being they ripped Vern off, the laws to protect him are probably biased in the favour of thebig fish who can afford the big lawyers.
Regarding the Auto workers, we have all had the same problems with that kind of thing in industry, the $ they get paid they should be pretty damn happy not trying stuff it up all the time..... HD were having a heap of casting done of shore for EVo don't konw if it continues now but lots was done here and in Aussie, Hell $35.00 usd per hour = 55.00 nzd per hour so you can get two guys for the one + the shipping costs and have it built to a good standard.
What really pisses me off is people paying $100's of dollars for something made by some poor ass Indonesians or someone for a couple of bucks a day, thats corporate greed and the likes of Nike should be hung for it.....oops rant in progress.

[raven]

Ho w can I get ahold of Vern to order these?
I will need them for my Paige...
r

[shifts]

I have this sign hanging in my waiting room:
QUALITY..
Its unwise to pay too much, but its worse to pay too little
When you pay too much, you lose a little money. Thats all..
When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything,
because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do.
The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little
&amp; getting a lot...it cant be done.
If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run.
And if you do that, you will have enough to pay for something better.
John Ruskin
(1819-1900)

[Petejoe]

We have discussed this in past threads. But the outsourcing of products always seems ok when we are looking for the cheapest best quality product. We all fall for it. My profession is giving approval for new products and assemblies at my company and I have been in this business for many years. I constantly tell people how we are giving away the industries and technical knowledge to off shore countries. Our kids won't even know what a mill or brake is. How can they even think about repairing or building any cars let alone the creative knowledge it takes to build what we do. Everyone seems to ignore it saying . Well what choice do we have. I have constantly seen the quality of these outsource products improve. We can't compete when these companies our paying their workers 50 cents a day. Yes this particular instance with Vern has hit home for some. But I can tell you all, It is only beginning and it won't change. They beat us at our own game. After 30 years in manufacturing and Industry. I can't see a answer for this one aside from totally closing our borders to everyone and everything. Go ahead guys. Buy At Wally world. It should add to the problems for sure.

[mytlo56]

Hell, I'm a firm believer in honor.

Get on 'er, and stay on 'er http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Couldn't resist. Sorry

[AV8-Rider]

Contact info on Vern anyone??????

I need a pair for my roadster.

Paul

[phat rat]

HRTH you think this is all the fault of unions? If you want to blame someone try the fatcat CEO's making million dollar a year salaries and compensation packages of stock that go even higher. Look to the shareholders who want to see profits rise no matter the cost. Remember Enron? The big three also demand suppliers hold or cut their prices and of course improve quality control. Everthing is about the company showing a profit margin satisfactory to the CEO and the shareholders. To hell with spending money needed to sometimes upgrade things, that has to wait because it would bring the profit margin down. Think I don't know what I'm talking about? I've worked at the same factory for 41 years and in the last 10-15 years it has just gotten worse every year. Downsizing, work going to other countries, etc. Maybe when you can no longer buy an American made product people will wake up and demand a reckoning on the fatcat's who control these things.

[continentaljohn]

Yep , you hit it on the head Petejoe! But left out the word NAFTA, sucking jobs and manufacturing out of the country. I hate to say, if we did put higher duties on import items , good guys like Vern would still have the job because it would be competive pricing.. Ok , so some of our hotrod parts might be a bit more, maybe?? But what about the future, our jobs , kids jobs and grandchildren. Are we all gonna have to be in the service ind.. Sorry , I work in manufacturing and hear the words "the job went over seas" way too often. It's gonna be interasting to see how this mess gets worked out. As for the unions jobs, there's good workers and bad ones in every work site. So what can we do to do our part?? I'm not sure, but are they trying to pass a world free trade policy??

[modernbeat]

[ QUOTE ]
After 30 years in manufacturing and Industry. I can't see a answer for this one aside from totally closing our borders to everyone and everything.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope, that's not the answer. The eventual, logical answer is for the USA to OWN those manufacturing locations. That means war and take-over, or by grabbing them by their financial balls. And the finance part is short lived. And sticking imports with a higher tarif isn't the answer either - that's the same as being an isolationist.

The real answer is to adapt to the world as it is today. Live with less waste, properly value good products, and don't consume as much. Sounds froo-froo? Other countries have been doing it for ages. We can too.

FWIW - this has less to do with Vern's retainers, and more to to with BFTWC?'s Lokar pedal - would you pay TWICE or THREE TIMES as much for quality?

Actually, I already spouted my economic and political solutions for all the worlds problems when we got OT on Arnold S.

I think that financial incentives that encourage small businesses in small towns and encourage larger businesses to split up into smaller units that are automous to the larger entity would go a long way towards solving a lot of our social, economic and cultural problems. Small towns and small businesses promote responsibility, family, creativeness, and recduce economies of scale, concentrations of power, and homogenous culture.

I'm gonna have to change my handle to "The Ranter"

[Smokin Joe]

I got a less than 2 percent raise this year on my 24,000 Union base wage. What's 2% of 24,000 work out to? Last year we got a $500 bonus but no raise. I have bosses who got 3% plus 3% bonus plus 2 1/2% performance upgrades based on their $170,000 and up base salaries. What's 8 1/2% of 170,000? Tell me again how my union is fucking your economy! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[El Caballo]

This is sort of like what happened to the first guy who started chroming valve covers I'm sure. Not all unions are like the UAW. The craft here perform or they are gone, period.

[Kevin Lee]

I think raven61 and AV8 rider have both brought an interesting point to the discussion without realizing it. Contact info for Vern?...Anyone?...Hello? I already know how to contact Speedway. Catalog, Website, 800 number. It's out there and not hard to find. Seems like the smaller outfits that allign themselves with quality are also the hardest to find, harder to contact, rarely have a catalog, won't answer the goddamn phone, can't find time to return calls ("they're too busy out in the shop", whatever) and don't even have an answering machine. You can forget about a website alltogether. Honor? Quality? What about SERVICE?

I understand that as a whole Vern Tardell runs his business to build horods, not sell drum retainers and adapter plates for F-1 boxes. Admittedly this rant doesn't apply to his situation very well. Just don't be suprised when the majority buy their part from someone who's easy to deal with.

I think I found someone who will make a quickchange from a banjo center. It's ME. Who knows how well it will turn out - it might be junk. But at least I have been able to contact myself so far. I imagine I'll make my own drum retainers too.

[50mercfan]

quit passing the buck. it all comes down to consumers not suppliers. if we researched and made sure that everything we bought was american made then we wouldn't even be having this discussion. there's a theory called supply and demand. we demand cheaper prices and they supply cheaper prices. we consume products at an alarming rate, there is alot of money in this country and we live well. we've been given so much that we've come to expect it.the fact of the matter is that we don't want to work anymore, we expect to get payed just to show up for work. things didn't used to be that way, a man earned his living. so can american manufactures even keep up the supply? i don't know. if they did all the overtime and triple time would eat up thier profits and most couldn't stay in buisiness. we expect the companys to give us everything they make, well their not in buisiness to provide you with a job, thier in buisiness to make money.now not everyone is lazy, there are people who work, but the people who don't know who you are. the people who hide in the breakroom for 8 hours hopeing no one finds you. now tell me you havn't found an item $10.00 cheaper somwhere and went with that product. did you ask where it was made? hell no you didn't. it was cheaper.

[gears-n-grease]

50mercfan is right -the responsability and blame is the consumers- They demand cheaper prices GREEDY COPORATE OFFICIALS move the jobs overseas to provide a cheaper product AND widen their profit margins. Unions are to blame for some instances but definatly not all. I went shopping today for my manufacturing business and most of the time price is not a concern. QUALITY IS. I however went shopping at 2 of the biggest evil corporations in the USA- HOME DEPOT and LOWES and everything except $50 worth of friction tape was MADE IN THE USA. I didnt sacrifice price, quality or have to go out of my way to buy anything. The problem lies in LAZY, CHEAP CONSUMERS. IF you want something made in the USA you can probably find it. JUST NOT AT WALMART OR MOST OTHER CONVIENT PLACES LIKE SPEEDWAY. (this does exclude the obvious stuff from other places like fine china)

[59BuickWagon]

For those that have asked. From www.roadsters.com (http://www.roadsters.com):

Vern Tardel — Engine builder, and the scource for the book "How to Build a Traditional Ford Hot Rod", written by Mike Bishop and Vern Tardel, and illustrated by Steve Amos
464 Pleasant Avenue
Santa Rosa, CA 95401
Fax (707) 838-6065

[Jive-Bomber]

By the way-
Vern is fax only. He's not a retail customer oriented deal. Usually he's working on cars, so send him a fax of what you want with the card # and everything (if he takes credit cards?) or fax him your phone number and he'll call you back in a decent amount of time. I think one of the reasons he sells his retainers and Stromberg 97 mugs (yes, those were his and Keith's idea) through other sources is that he's not really into retail.. He's into building cars! Just thought I would add this info so nobody gets peeved about the fax tone at the other end of that phone number...

jay

[slazzen]

well it dont suprise me in the big picture of the hotrod world next speedy will have Von Dutch clothing made in indonesia and they will have a interveiw with Micheal Jackson in next months Garage Magazine on how him and Rubba wax a car in the latest swim wear for 2004 extra tight speedo`s

[av8]

Let me see if I understand you, Grimlok . . . Vern deserves to be ripped off by Speedway because he doesn't pander to telephoning time wasters who can't read his magazine ads, send a FAX, or write a simple snail-mail order.

If Vern's primary business was selling parts instead of building old-Ford hot rods he would be able to provide better customer "service," like Speedway. Is that about it?

Of course he would have less time to create problem-solving bits and pieces that can be affordably reproduced to aid other rod builders. But that's okay, because service-oriented folks like Speedway will produce those bits and pieces -- just as soon as they know what's needed and how to make 'em. Now I understand.

[rat bastad]

Interesting thread guys, but if it makes you feel any better, that shit goes on as well, on the other side of the pond.

Lets just say that I know for a fact that a few performance component manufacturers here in Oz make the parts here, then they go to the US and are sold as " Made in the USA".

Whats worse, some of these parts come back down here and are sold as "Premium Brand" US speed equipment, from very well known and respected names in the aftrmarket game.

In every field of human endeavour(read business) its the beancounters that run the show....and EVERYTHING is COST driven....sad, but true!! My 2 pesos.

Rat http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[autocol]

i learned from a wise man a long time ago about PRICE, QUALITY, and SERVICE.

and that a business can only provide two of them. ever.

if someone immediately answers your call, and sells you an item at a fantastic price, it WILL BE SHIT. every time. go to a cheap restaurant with nice food, the service is shit. go to one with great food and service, you pay! sometimes, the goods are REALLY cheap, and the service is shit too, then the quality will be REALLY bad!

unfortunately, business only ever provides two of the three theings we want, and much as it annoys me i NEED service, it's just the way i am... so i have to buy stuff that's expensive, for the quality to be where i need it.

honour? i'm sorry mike, but the handshake is an anacronism.

[Hot Rod To Hell]

[ QUOTE ]
honour? i'm sorry mike, but the handshake is an anacronism.


[/ QUOTE ]
It's like the quote from Bad Religion "A handshake's nuthin' but a subtle 'FUCK YOU'!"

[Kevin Lee]

av8 - No. Not what I was trying to say at all. I thought my point was clear but I obviously didn't write it well enough. And I'm not being facetious here - I honestly don't think I wrote it well enough.

My quote:
[ QUOTE ]
I understand that as a whole Vern Tardell runs his business to build horods, not sell drum retainers and adapter plates for F-1 boxes. Admittedly this rant doesn't apply to his situation very well.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe this should have been the first sentence?

I guess that is about it. I never said Vern deserves to get ripped off and I never meant to imply it. If his primary business was selling parts it would be a completely different situation - but I assume that's not his intention and I don't think anyone who has seen what he does would want it any other way. I really don't know what else to add.

Edit: Maybe I could add that I wasn't talking about Vern at all. But rather mt experience with smaller outfits that make a very desireable part or system but have no time left to worry about selling it. And I don't mean tossing out a sales pitch. I mean the actual physical act of selling. I don't have a lot of money to throw at a project so when I decide I want something and happen to scrape enough together to get it I get a bit bummed when the person on the other end shows no interest in making it happen. Maybe they've dealt with too many telephone time wasters? I try very hard not to be one of those people. Does that make more sense now?

[Deuce Rails]

So... No one thought it was funny that Speedy Bill Smith looks like Truman Capote? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[TomH]

Went out to the shop and looked at my speedway retainers that I have not installed yet. Box says printed in Taiwan and the retainer also has a Taiwan sticker on it.
I was going to make them myself but after looking at the backing plate were they would mount I felt it would need and indentation to fit. They come with a spacer nut to over come this problem. Mike if you are still following this, is this how Vern makes his?? ( with the spacer nut ) Thanks Tom

[Bruce Lancaster]

"So... No one thought it was funny that Speedy Bill Smith looks like Truman Capote?"

Truman: White hat.
Speedy: Black hat.
Like, totally diff, man.
I never get them confused.

[D Picasso]

Grimmy,

check your PMs. I have a story that will make you look at this whole thing a little differently.

[Smokin Joe]

AV8 I thought about getting one of those 32 style crosmembers &amp; pedal setups for my A from him for a while, but decided to go with a T-5 and build my own setup rather than buy a fax machine so I could find out if I was worthy of a call back. If he doesn't want customers, that's fine with me. There's always another way.

[286merc]

There has been a fact of life ever since the first cave man whacked out a wheel.

Engineers generally make poor businessmen.

Ive worked for several companies started by various genius level thinkers. Not a one is still around. Not a one knew how to properly sell a product nor deal with questions. They all had that superior attitude that turned off potential customers and investors.

OTOH Speedway has been around for a LONG time making customers happy while filling a genuine need for their products. They will be around a lot longer than the craftsman cum engineer trying to sell his product out the shop door.

I wouldnt know Vern or Mike for that matter if I ran over them so I'm not ragging on them. Just trying to illustrate a point.

Now, there is a solution, maybe. Select another large outfit to distribute the product on an exclusive basis. No mailorder or selling out the shop door.
Get a signed non compete aggreement or license them to produce the item. There is something to be said for staying out of the customer loop, the public can be real assholes at times.
This would seem a natural for Reds, MAC's or one of the other well known early Ford outfits.