Buick front backing plates a no-go.. [Archive]

Rocky

11-21-2003, 10:30 PM

I've been trying to figure out how to use my late 50's buick backing plates on my '40 ford hubs and spindles with finned buick drums. I've tried every trick I can think of to utilize these buick backing plates because I want the self energizing brakes but I finally have to admit defeat. The offset of the buick pieces is backward for what I need. Guess I'll have to go ultra traditional and use my 40 front backing plates with stone-age 40 brakes inside my finned drums. Now, I see why nobody uses the buick pieces.
The 40 front brakes worked ok on the Rocky 33 but it didn't have a hemi motor that weighed 700 lbs either. Hope this sumbitch stops when I need it to......
Good news is, I can march forward with the project and quit fucking around with the un-workable parts anymore....
Now, to figure out how to use the buick backing plates on the 57 Poncho rear axle.........

modernbeat

11-21-2003, 10:35 PM

Rocky, I know you're not made of money or anything, but put in a few hours of OT and call Bob Wilson for a pair of his Lincoln self energizing backing plates.

modernbeat

11-21-2003, 10:37 PM

Gotta be fair though -

Other alternatives...Finding a set of '39 Front, or '39-48 rear Lincoln brakes, or only slightly easier to find, but cheap to buy - a set of '53-'56 Ford F200 truck brakes.

Unkl Ian

11-21-2003, 10:39 PM

Self energizing sounds like a good idea.Cut the centers out of the '40 plates,and weld them into the Buick plates.

mecutem

11-21-2003, 10:46 PM

I am going to run the 58-60 backing plates (2 1/2 by 12 shoes) on both my rods. You know about the spacer-adapter to mount the plates to the spindle don't you? I paid $40 a piece for mine. The spacer adapter puts that buick plate just the right offset for the the 46-48 ford hub and buick drum. Big big big stopping power in a old timey package. I can take some pics of the parts I have and post if that will help ya any. Steve

DrJ

11-21-2003, 10:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Self energizing sounds like a good idea.Cut the centers out of the '40 plates,and weld them into the Buick plates.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was about to suggest the same possibility too.... (but read the posts first!)

hotrodA

11-21-2003, 10:57 PM

Spacers, eh? Where did you get them?

mecutem

11-21-2003, 11:04 PM

I had a buddy run 6 pairs for me on his cnc. Trial run to see what the cost would be. He told me the next run would have to be at least $50 apiece......not bad but he needs a quantitiy order. I have 3 pair left (sold 3 pair to recoope some of my cost). I'll go take a picture right now and post in a few minutes. I thought everyone knew about this means to use the big buick brakes. Steve

Rocky

11-21-2003, 11:09 PM

cutting the centers out of both plates and welding the buick centers in was my intention but neither backing plate is flat. plus, all the ridges, hills and valleys are in different places. the spacers might work for 41-48 hubs but I have 40 hubs, which are different...
Even with spacers, the center of the buick plate would have to be cut out to clear the bottom of the ford hub.
I'll hit up my fellow F-100 club members for the proper F-250 plates..thanks

Rocky

11-21-2003, 11:12 PM

Steve, I'd like to see those spacer photos...would you mind e-mailing me a look at 'em?

mecutem

11-21-2003, 11:12 PM

spacer for buick backing plates on a ford 46-48 spindle...

Tuck

11-21-2003, 11:12 PM

I'm getting the F250 backing plates from Bleed http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif He rules and saved me this time... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Thanks for the info rock. Glad to know yer gonna get back into the shop yo
Tuck

mecutem

11-21-2003, 11:14 PM

heres a spacer laying on a 58-60 backing plate. The buick backing plate hole has to be opened up and the mount holes filled and redrilled.

mecutem

11-21-2003, 11:18 PM

I have some f250 backing plates here too....I compared the shoe size to the buicks...much bigger brakes if you go with the buicks Steve

Rocky

11-21-2003, 11:18 PM

Holy crap! Where can I score a pair?

Rocky

11-21-2003, 11:22 PM

I went back and re-read your post. I'll take a pair of those little honeys if you're selling....I'll get with you via e-mail....

mecutem

11-21-2003, 11:24 PM

Rocky Hot Rod Works use to sell them back when it was Atkinson's Machine......last I knew they were not selling them anymore. I can get more made at about $50 each... so I tell ya what......pm me your address and I'll send ya a pair to see if thats the way ya want to go. If so send me the dough and if not just send them back to me. I need to get an order of 8 pair or so to get Ross to cut me some more at $50 each. Steve

Rocky

11-21-2003, 11:26 PM

Yew got it!

Rocky

11-21-2003, 11:35 PM

And so, it is done..........
As the sun sets in the west [harmonica music here] and Rocky sits astride his old gray primered mare, clip-clopping into the sunset, while rolling up a Bull Durham cigarette with one hand, yet another problem has been solved with Hamb-help [tm]......Gad! I love this place!

HotRodDrummer

11-21-2003, 11:36 PM

van.................. ummmm (i'll get my ass kicked....(chevy van) early 60's).....

okay, where's the rope!@!!

Rocky

11-21-2003, 11:37 PM

Nope.......gotta be 12" brakes to take advantage of my finned aluminum 12" drums...

fab32

11-21-2003, 11:41 PM

mecutum, How about posting an inquiry and find out how many HAMBr's would like a pair? I'm in for a pair if you have more made.
Maybe if you could get enough orders they could be done for less than $50 apiece. Just a thought.

Frank

mecutem

11-21-2003, 11:51 PM

Hey Frank Maybe 2 years ago or so I paid the $20 to Hot Rod Works for the detailed specs of these adapters. They told me they were not making them anymore. My good friend and cousin Ross said he would do a run and time study on making some up. Well he guessed $40 each and stayed with that on the first batch but told me any more he made should be $50 each. So I think $50 each is the bottom $. If other hambers are interested please contact me. I can have Ross run another batch when I get a an order of 8 pair or so. This kind of reminds me of the Header flange post from another good hearted hamber.....well we will see how many takers here. No spamming here.......just trying to help out. Steve

Flat Ernie

11-22-2003, 10:11 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I have some f250 backing plates here too....I compared the shoe size to the buicks...much bigger brakes if you go with the buicks Steve

[/ QUOTE ]

You can get wider shoes for the F250 backing plates and all you need to do to use them is find/fabricate a longer anchor pin and use longer shoe nails. The 66-72 F250 shoes came in 2.5" & 3" - which will work with the Buick drums.

I considered doing this, but in the end, my 33 Truck just isn't heavy enough to warrant this degree of overkill http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif The 12x2 self-energizing will do just fine for me....

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Max Gearhead

11-22-2003, 03:30 PM

Is there a preferred Buick backing plate to use in this swap or will any of them that originally came on cars with the aluminum drums work?
Max

mecutem

11-22-2003, 07:08 PM

Flat Ernie I was not aware you could get bigger shoes for the ford F250's. The F250backing plates I have got really skinny width shoes compared to the buicks.

Max Gearhead 1958 1959 and 1960 Buick are your best choices. 61 on up had a weird mounting and can't be made to work very well. As far as I know the aluminum drums will interchange from 58 up until disc brakes became available. Steve

Rolf

11-22-2003, 08:18 PM

Max Gearhead...No, only the early Buick backing plates will do, I think '58-and maybe to about '60. After that, the Buick spindle changed, and they use a big bolt on top, making it hard to retrofit to the Ford spindle. Maybe somebody can look it up in the interchange manual to get the exact cut off.

Max Gearhead

11-23-2003, 12:02 AM

Thanks guys! Much appreciated info! Possible Tech O Matic material?
Max

Flat Ernie

11-23-2003, 09:40 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I was not aware you could get bigger shoes for the ford F250's. The F250backing plates I have got really skinny width shoes compared to the buicks.

[/ QUOTE ]

The Buicks are 3" or so. You can use 67-72 F250 that come in either 2.5" or 3" (depending on suspension option) - in addition to the nails & anchor change, I forgot to mention you'll have to use the later star adjustor too...

I have to add that I've never done this, but researched it a bit for my truck. For my application, it seemed like a lot of extra work, so I skipped it since the early F250 2" brakes will work just fine.

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

tommy

11-23-2003, 09:43 AM

Mecutem, could you measure the diameter of the lip that fits into the backing plate and the thickness of the spacer. I need something very similar to use on my Lincoln b/plates. The hole in the Lincolns are a skosh over 3 7/8. If they work for Lincolns it may increase the demand.

mecutem

11-23-2003, 10:41 AM

Tommy The spacers are 9/16 thick....not counting the raised ring. The ring is just a fuzz under 3 1/2......so the backing plate hole would need to be about 3 1/2. Sounds like the lincoln backing plates allready have a hole larger than these spacers. Steve

tommy

11-23-2003, 10:45 AM

Thanks, I guess I'll have to make my own.

SlowLearner

11-23-2003, 11:21 AM

Rocky, there's a (4 page) Ron Ceridono article in March 1998 Street Rodder showing the Buick brake install on Ford spindles (and 9" rear.) Pretty comprehensive EXCEPT for specs. Photos of the spacer made up and recommends (NAPA # 641-1138) serrated studs.
Basically, the story is a promo for Wayne Atkinson of Atkinson Machine...apparently he was doing up the adapters then. Dunno about now.
Gave his address as 466S 5th W, Dept SRM
Rexburg, ID 83440
(208) 356-3066
(Yeah, that street number is printed in SR as 466"S", tho could be it should have been a 5.)

Duohhhh....
"Hot Rod Works use to sell them back when it was Atkinson's Machine......"
guess I shoulds read mecutem's earlier post better...

Let us know it works, this has got a TECHOMATIC feel to it!

wideglide74

11-28-2003, 01:19 PM

I have two articles on the conversion and the specs for the spacer. pm me your address and they're in the mail.

Rocky

11-28-2003, 06:04 PM

Thanks Wideglide. I sent you an e-mail with my mailing info. I'll get this sumbitch together yet!

65WILDKAT

06-19-2007, 03:55 PM

The 65 too70Buickplates have a hole that measures 3.48" except for the Rivs the have a 3.08 hole in them I can't find the sizes in my book for the pre 65 plates?Anyone have that info?

Bruce Lancaster

06-19-2007, 04:07 PM

Tommy, I think Dave Wilton makes the spacers for Lincoln deep-dish brakes.

Armstrong

06-19-2007, 04:59 PM

I'm running this set up on my A. Spacers aquired from Atkinson,hubs from Wilson welding,'59 Buick drums and backing plates. Fits great,but have not got the car finished,so no real world data on how they work. I expect to have all the brake I can use. Wheel cylinders were hard to find for the buick brakes.

Flat Ernie

06-20-2007, 03:44 AM

Bring out your dead! *bong*
Bring out your dead! *bong*

I'm not dead yet! I don't want to go on the cart...

Holy cow - this thread is from Nov '03! Lots of good info in it & it's linked to in the archives, but wow!

Richard D

12-05-2007, 11:23 AM

Anybody know where to get these spacers now, or a drawing so I can make my own? I have access to a CNC, maybe I can get a batch done.

Mike B

12-05-2007, 12:26 PM

I have a detailed drawing that I got from the hot rod works.

Richard D

12-05-2007, 02:09 PM

how about a copy of the drawing?

HotRodMicky

12-06-2007, 02:57 AM

I coulduse a copy , too.
Michael

tttlesabre

12-23-2007, 11:18 PM

Can I get a copy of those prints also. Thanks Doug

desertjoe

01-08-2008, 09:53 AM

I would like a copy also ,,,thanks

PRIMERDAVE

01-08-2008, 10:29 AM

PRIMERDAVE

01-08-2008, 10:35 AM

oops....didn't even look at the dates on this......guess these are not available any more....

Richard D

01-08-2008, 10:37 AM

There is something available on E-bay. He is selling backing plates and all, but said he can sell just the adapters.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=005&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=150201796025&rd=1 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=005&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=150201796025&rd=1)
http://i3.ebayimg.com/06/i/000/cf/aa/3983_1.JPG

xderelict

01-08-2008, 10:49 AM

Might have an idea about welding the centers of the backing plates.Simplified,cut the same size square out of the centers of each ford and buick backing plate.Weld a verticle collar around the horizontal plates you cut out.Set the spacing and let the collar make up for the hills and valleys of each.Weld And trim excess collar material

Andy

01-08-2008, 10:56 AM

That ebay rig is pretty but I have doubts. The backing plate is visable in the side shot. I have found that the plate should be well inside the drum for the shoes to line up right with the drums. He is using '40 hubs so the regular accepted stack up is off. The adapters could be machined/designed to compensate but it sure does not look right to me. I would much rather have Bob Wilsons stuff as I absolutly know it is right and works. I have thought of cutting the centers out of the Buick backing plates and welding in new Ford centers. Again, nothing to be gained and Bob's stuff is a hell of a deal.

Richard D

01-08-2008, 11:48 AM

+1 on Wilson Welding, I've heard nothing but good about him, and he was very polite and helpful over the phone.

mecutem

01-08-2008, 12:39 PM

Still so much mystery on the buick brake set ups. The machined adapter allows the use of the stock buick 12 by 2 1/2 shoes. Huge stopping power. I have been out of the adpters for a while. Others here on the hamb sell them too. Jet Doc is one I know of.

I have a detailed 3 page mag article (by Wayne Atkinson)on how to put the buick backing plates on ford spindles. Also details putting them on the rear. Also the specs for the adapter. This is not super secret info so pm me if you would like copies. I would post the info here but my scanner sucks big time. A couple bucks donation for handling and processing would be a nice gesture but not required. PM me for address Steve
.

cranium69

01-10-2008, 04:13 PM

Andy knows nothing about what he claims above. Those are set up exactly where a 58-60 buick backing plate is supposed to be. I know those are mine that were for sale.:mad:

Armstrong

01-10-2008, 06:48 PM

The square back spindles work better with this set-up. The round back spindle needs a fair amount of grinding to clear the deep recess of the Buick backing plate.

waeman

02-16-2008, 07:50 PM

I,M new at this , how can I get that info ?

gary terhaar

02-16-2008, 08:43 PM

The square back spindles work better with this set-up. The round back spindle needs a fair amount of grinding to clear the deep recess of the Buick backing plate.
That is what i ran into when i decided to get a pair of 60 buick plates on my early ford spindles.I copied the spacer idea and attempted this myself,4 days of welding and machine work i got it to work.The only difference is i used the buick hubs with spacers i made to convert them to ford wheel bearings.Then i reshot the wheel bolt pattern to 4.50 and trimmed the snout of the hub to fit the rim.Was a ton of work but it was a "yea i can do that" thing and was glad when it was done.So I peppered the finished backing plates with 60 plus holes each on the roatery table and sent it out for chrome.Ill try to post picks when they get back.

paperdog

02-17-2008, 08:24 PM

i talked to my cnc guy(son in law) and with the specs maybe this price can go way down ... they need the work..and these 4 axis machines need to hump 24 -7
please pm me the specs or let me know the SR isue no. or date
thanks paperdog

Bib Overalls

02-17-2008, 09:03 PM

At one time, The Hot Rod Works would send you the specs to machine the spacers. Don't know if they will do it now, but they are only a phne call or email away.

39delux

02-17-2008, 09:29 PM

Bas_sob

11-22-2010, 10:43 PM

does anyone have a copy of the specs on the adapter

no6

10-08-2011, 11:08 AM

I'm looking for either a drawing that is usable or someone that is selling the adapters. This is valuable in if we can get it.

evans32

10-08-2011, 12:54 PM

We ,@ Seabright hotrods, modified a set of 40 ford backing plates to accept buick 12 x 2.5 self energizing brakes. See at seabrighthotrods.com under parts.

DD COOPMAN

10-08-2011, 03:31 PM

We ,@ Seabright hotrods, modified a set of 40 ford backing plates to accept buick 12 x 2.5 self energizing brakes. See at seabrighthotrods.com under parts.

Obviously, a lot of thought AND execution went into your finished backing plates...beautiful! Would love to see a pic of the finished, back side of the backing plate. Really nice! DDhttp://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif

Ricci32

10-08-2011, 03:59 PM

DD COOPMAN

10-08-2011, 04:07 PM

I have a pair of what the old time racers call openn spider backing plates bolts to a ford spindle uses buick shoes and wheel cylinders to a frankland safety hub with a buick drum attached think they would work.

Heck, I'd love to see a pic or two of these, too. Some interesting stuff goin' on here today, guys. DD

evans32

10-08-2011, 06:24 PM

Here's the back side of the 40 ford backing plate with buick brakes. These were later chromed.

DD COOPMAN

10-08-2011, 11:32 PM

Here's the back side of the 40 ford backing plate with buick brakes. These were later chromed.

Damn, that is nice. A guy would really have to be payin' attention to realize that those are different than the way Henry sent them out the door. Really appreciate ya takin' the time to find and post the pic. DD