View Full Version : A question for you paint guys!!


drunkrock
06-16-2010, 02:56 PM
Im getting ready to have my 56' buick painted after many months of body work thats finally finished. My dilemma is I dont want to cheap out on the paint after all the hard work put into the body, but i dont want to spend unnecesssary money either. So my question is should i use omni solvent based paint (500.00$ cheaper) or get off my empty wallet and use transtar water base? I am spending the money on the transtar clear (2 gal.) Any thoughts. Thanks, Jeremy

ZRX61
06-16-2010, 03:06 PM
I wouldn't use either, but thats just me. You can still buy the *good stuff* in California, you just need to know where to go. Not familiar with the places local to you tho... or you can have a friend buy it in Arizona or Nevada for you... ;)

yblock292
06-16-2010, 03:06 PM
Painting in a booth? Water base ( as i inderstand) has a long cure time

SinisterCustom
06-16-2010, 03:12 PM
IMO Omni is for collision work or to paint something cheap before selling....haha.
And I've never tried the Transtar.....I just know that I hate shooting waterbased paints....

dan67
06-16-2010, 03:27 PM
I honestly didn't like the omni color nearly as much as the PPG dbc counterpart. I used the same paint code jet black in both lines, and put together, the omni looks almost brown compared to the ppg. The waterbased color may be difficult to spray wtihout the right booth or drying lights to help it along. What color are you doing? Some of the colors may look good in omni, but the pearls and metallics don't look as uniform if you get down and look super close at the paint. I know a few guys that use the Transtar stuff a lot, and it seems to hold up well. I personally prefer to use one system from metal to clearcoat, just so I know that every solvent, hardner, chemical, etc.... has been designed by someone smarter than me to work and adhere to the previous layer.

joel
06-16-2010, 03:31 PM
Ditto, I'd use ppg.

Ob1
06-16-2010, 04:15 PM
Look for a brand called Wanda, made by Azko Nobel.

drunkrock
06-16-2010, 04:39 PM
Its going to be painted in a charge by hour booth so i dont have the luxury of time. (dan67) thanks for the info i am using pearls

sephgato
06-16-2010, 04:48 PM
i have had good luck with PPG and I sprayed Omni once.....it lays down okay but it is like the others have said, not the best choice after doing a lot of body work. House of Kolor is nice to spray.....cashy, but nice

57JoeFoMoPar
06-16-2010, 05:15 PM
PPG or HOK. If you're painting the car to turn heads, forget the Omni. The PPG Deltron, DBC line is real nice, as is their Vibrance (which is BIG money).

If your spraying HOK and doing a complete, show quality paint job, it would not be out of the question to drop $1500-$2000 on materials and not waste any. You'll have one helluva paint job when you're done though. Worth every penny

pimpin paint
06-16-2010, 05:20 PM
Im getting ready to have my 56' buick painted after many months of body work thats finally finished. My dilemma is I dont want to cheap out on the paint after all the hard work put into the body, but i dont want to spend unnecesssary money either. So my question is should i use omni solvent based paint (500.00$ cheaper) or get off my empty wallet and use transtar water base? I am spending the money on the transtar clear (2 gal.) Any thoughts. Thanks, Jeremy

Hey Jeremy,

Unless someone was holding a 9mm to my head, I wouldn't use Tree Hugger Kool-Aid (waterborne paint material) on anything! You're going to be top coating it with a solvent based clear, anyways, so what's the thinkin'? Too, unless your metalwork is dead nuts, and I don't mean to be flingin' fecal matter at your efforts related to your skill, spending $800.00-$1,200.00 in paint material to cover so-so metalwork is stupid!
Look over OMNI, Nason, or SouthernUrethanes product lines if this is your first paint job.

" Meanwhyle, back aboard The Tainted Pork "

R.Otto
06-16-2010, 05:28 PM
IMO any paint looks good if laid down right I just see the dillema of how long its going to last out in the elements

BISHOP
06-16-2010, 05:36 PM
PPG or HOK. If you're painting the car to turn heads, forget the Omni. The PPG Deltron, DBC line is real nice, as is their Vibrance (which is BIG money).

If your spraying HOK and doing a complete, show quality paint job, it would not be out of the question to drop $1500-$2000 on materials and not waste any. You'll have one helluva paint job when you're done though. Worth every penny There, you have your answer. I would spend the money on HOK, you wont be disapointed.

kenseth17
06-16-2010, 05:41 PM
I wouldn't use either for a hot rod either. I hate waterbase, but if being honest, haven't sprayed any since 1990, since school wanted us to get some exposure to spraying various types of paint, vs just urethane, which already had pretty much taken over, even though still a fairly new system.

I sprayed a ton of omni, having worked at a used car dealer years back, but IMO its one of the worst cheap basecoats.

I'd too recommend spending the extra money for dbc over omni. More mixing colors and research should mean its closer to the color, more vibrant, and coverage is more often then not much better then omni. If it takes twice as many coats to cover, then there goes much of the cost savings, not to mention omni is an enamel base which will be be a bit harder to work with and spray,not as good metallic control, be slower dry, and not as high of quality. and if you have to spray a lot of coats to get hiding, that extra material thickness isn't really the greatest thing either.

If you are spraying a factory color, and want to save a few bucks over dbc then look for the prospray base by usc. I've been ordering it online, and its run half price of my local jobber has quoted me for dbc in the same color code. Its a polyester base, like many of the better lines, and I really haven't noticed much of a difference from chromabase or dbc, which I had sprayed a fair amount of in the past. In fact think coverage may be better then chromabase is a lot of the time, if you don't adhere to duponts valueshade recommendation. Metallics have laid evenly without much effort, and other then yellow for my brothers truck(not normally known to be a great coverer) have had coverage in 2 to 3 coats.
I too have been using southern polyurethanes epoxy primer and universal clearcoat last few things I've. Great product, great support, but won't burn a hole in your pocket, and products are more geared to the do it yourselfer, then the collision shops-like dbc and chromabase are, which need to bang out several cars a week.

stroupedesign
06-16-2010, 05:47 PM
Transtar is really cheap clear. Will probably yellow in a few years. It's great for sand rails and motocross helmets because they'll be trashed long before the yellowing happens. I would stick with HOK for the base color. And use either a Dupont, PPG, or Vertis clear. Or even HOK clear. It can be a little "testy" sometimes.

Waterbourne bases need specialized guns, tons of airflow and are not recommended if you've never sprayed them. If you put the paint on too heavy, it will bead up, or run. You can't wet sand it. So you have to wash it off and start over.

I've never used OMNI. But what I have been using with awesome success is Valspar single stage Omega 2 and clearcoating over it. I know it sounds crazy but single stage is basically clear with pigment and binders added to it. I've attached a photo of a recent job using single stage and clear top coat. Don't tell OSHA!

loco_gringo
06-16-2010, 05:51 PM
Sometimes you really get what you pay for. If you've spent the time to get the body straight and you plan on keeping the car, spend the money - and just say no to Transtar. It kinda depends on what you want, HOC or PPG would be my vote.

KSNPVMT
06-16-2010, 05:52 PM
Im a dupont man...spray it every day...and love it! They have a cheaper line called nasson which is pretty much there older line kept around after updating to new stuff and it is a great product. There value shade system and powder pearls are awesome.
The problem your gonna have is the California voc regs! make a trip to vegas and get a decent product that isnt regulated by the stupid CA laws! That water base stuff is to keep up with the new laws and regs and really isnt good product or as easy to shoot...In my opinion.

onlychevrolets
06-16-2010, 05:53 PM
For my money it'd have PPG....

61 Tx Cat
06-16-2010, 05:55 PM
Look for a brand called Wanda, made by Azko Nobel.

My last project the painter used Sikkens from Akzo Nobel

SinisterCustom
06-16-2010, 05:57 PM
HOK is cheaper, for the most part, than PPG....FWIW.
Also, Valspar is priced lower yet, and is basically the same stuff as HOK. (Valspar makes HOK).

The Hank
06-16-2010, 06:02 PM
Check out the paint and prices here

http://www.tcpglobal.com/autocolorlibrary/

57JoeFoMoPar
06-16-2010, 06:09 PM
HOK is cheaper, for the most part, than PPG....FWIW.
Also, Valspar is priced lower yet, and is basically the same stuff as HOK. (Valspar makes HOK).

Cheaper in price, not in quality.

I'm sure you guys know the car, but for the sake of the thread, here's my '57, painted by Slowandlow63 at Moonlite Kustoms.

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w94/y2kmondeosvt/2010_Kustoms_of_America_Gettysburg/P6120035.jpg

By the time every last thing is painted and buffed, I'll have around $1300 in materials alone in paint. HOK at every step; epoxy primer, ko-sealer, base coats, kandy coat, inter-coat and dry-pearl, and clear. HOK does NOT like it when you mix paint systems, so don't even consider trying to cheap out on one step to save money, ESPECIALLY clear. I bought all my stuff through Smart Shoppers and was very happy with their service and prices. We busted our asses making the body of the car nice, just as I'm sure you did on your Buick (which is probably a 1/3 larger than my Ford). Cheaping out on the paint nullifies your hard work. Suck it up, bite the bullet and spend the money on a quality paint system. Paint is the first thing you see, it draws you in, and you'll be thankful you went the distance every time you look at your car.

drunkrock
06-16-2010, 06:16 PM
Well it started out as "JUST" a paint job then turned into a full blown restoration/custom. Omni is now out of the question and i dont have the time as much as i would like to drive to vegas and pickup some oil based goods. Please keep the comments coming as i was in a hurry to purchase paint and now i have slammed on the brakes.

The Hank
06-16-2010, 06:34 PM
Check the link above , I don't know if they ship to CA or not.

53210
06-16-2010, 06:59 PM
Hey Jeremy,

Unless someone was holding a 9mm to my head, I wouldn't use Tree Hugger Kool-Aid (waterborne paint material) on anything! You're going to be top coating it with a solvent based clear, anyways, so what's the thinkin'? Too, unless your metalwork is dead nuts, and I don't mean to be flingin' fecal matter at your efforts related to your skill, spending $800.00-$1,200.00 in paint material to cover so-so metalwork is stupid!
Look over OMNI, Nason, or SouthernUrethanes product lines if this is your first paint job.

" Meanwhyle, back aboard The Tainted Pork "

You guys are stuck in the past,modern waterborne paints work 10x better than solvent based paints ever did,better color match,less coats to coverage,easier metallic orientation,the list goes on.
I sprayed solvent for years,and for the past 3 years been shooting waterborne @ work.
I'd never go back,unless it were to do a candy job,as we don't have waterborne candies readily availible up here.
In fact as of the end of June,non VOC compliant sales are banned in Canada,can't even bring across the border anymore.

alteredpilot
06-16-2010, 07:00 PM
auto air colors.... all day long.

SlowandLow63
06-16-2010, 08:20 PM
Well I guess there's no point in replying now. :D Thanks Joe.

davis574ord
06-16-2010, 08:30 PM
o0mni is for trailers, not cars, its fuckin junk! i use chroma base- dupont, never had any problems, you get what you pay for!

bbc 1957 gasser
06-16-2010, 09:14 PM
transtar clear is shit . i wouldnt paint a model car with it ..

look in my photos all my stuff is done with valspar base coats and omni mc260 clear ,

drunkrock
06-17-2010, 11:26 AM
Thanks again guys. Im glad i came on here before i made my purchase. HOK seems to be the favorite and pricewise its not to far off from transtar. Now if someone could point me in the right direction of a rubber kit for the car my day would be great.

Kona Cruisers
06-17-2010, 11:37 AM
.. no one mentioned Standox. I am a fan. Has a two coat coverage guarantee.

however you cant go wrong with HOK...

SinisterCustom
06-17-2010, 03:49 PM
Cheaper in price, not in quality.


Well, yeah.....I figured that was implied...:p



HOK does NOT like it when you mix paint systems, so don't even consider trying to cheap out on one step to save money, ESPECIALLY clear.

It doesn't???? Hmmm........I must have missed the memo.....do it all the time.:D

57JoeFoMoPar
06-17-2010, 04:14 PM
It doesn't???? Hmmm........I must have missed the memo.....do it all the time.:D

I was mixing up some HOK primer for some stuff when Billy wasn't in the shop, wasn't paying attention, and reduced it with PPG reducer... resulting mix clogged the gun something fierce. It was not happy, and neither was Billy with me! hahaha

stroupedesign
06-17-2010, 06:43 PM
I was mixing up some HOK primer for some stuff when Billy wasn't in the shop, wasn't paying attention, and reduced it with PPG reducer... resulting mix clogged the gun something fierce. It was not happy, and neither was Billy with me! hahaha

I was gonna stay out of this because I've "mixed" products. And never had any issues. But I think what he meant is using one brands basecoat and another brands clear, etc.

Not mixing one brands reducer, hardener with another.

Tinbasher
06-17-2010, 09:33 PM
Well, look at what you want when your done and what your going to use the car for. I've used 7 different paint systems in my type from Nitrocellulose lacquer to Waterborne. Yes were stuck with it in Canada too.
I've had good luck with the Transtar Basecoat Clearcoat system, used HOC, PPG, Sikkens, Dupont, BASF. They all work, but what works well for you is what it's all about. Give me Dupont and it will look great when I paint it and the next day it will be flat. Go Fiqure?

Remember the paint job is in the prep. I spend on average 200 hours of prep on a complete. 16 hours for paint and 50 hours on coloursanding and polishing. This gives me a nice Driver-Show car.

Some Food for thought:

The Old TInbasher

henryj429
06-17-2010, 10:01 PM
Ditto on the Omni - it is like water, takes a lot of coats to cover and for some reason won't build gloss over laquer primer. PPG DBC base blows it away. The Omni clear is actually tolerable, but HOK clears rule.

sik_kreations
06-18-2010, 12:03 AM
transtar isnt water!! the voc legal line aka no mix is low voc solvent like omni.

there not the worst things out there. but the colors are shit. u wont get a nice bright clean pearl with those like u would hok.

how much u looking to spend on paint? what color u doing it? are u spending money on the line? or do u want a cheaper way out.

since im in the same compliance in what paint to buy. i can lead u in the right direction if u want good products that work together but on the cheap. or just go all with hok. i do both.

alteredpilot
06-18-2010, 12:05 AM
hey SIK...
any opinion on martin senour (sherwin williams) vortex/planet color base/clear?

drunkrock
06-18-2010, 05:11 PM
Alright I bought my paint yesterday. Everything HOK!! I didnt want to cheap out and with all the comments you guys made definately swayed my decision. ill post some pics when its finished.

sik_kreations
06-19-2010, 09:24 PM
Alright I bought my paint yesterday. Everything HOK!! I didnt want to cheap out and with all the comments you guys made definately swayed my decision. ill post some pics when its finished.


what all did u get?

sik_kreations
06-19-2010, 09:25 PM
hey SIK...
any opinion on martin senour (sherwin williams) vortex/planet color base/clear?


dont use sw. a buddy i know uses planet color, in solvent, but hes back east. hes on kkl, look him up.. redhouse.