carb ideas

[sgtlethargic]

I'm looking for carb ideas for a Ford 170. I know next to nothing about carbs. I have seen this thread: http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=372319 ... figured I'd start a new one. I'd like multiple carbs- three seems like it'd fit the six best. Cost is a major factor. Somewhere in that thread someone mentioned tractor updrafts >>> there is an abandoned tractor near me.

Thanks,
Kurt

[mudflap261]

With that small of engine it would take 3 small carbs. Maybe a better choice would be 2 of what came on it

[DocModisett]

Dont, I remember the 170 as having a cast in intake manifold with the head???
Some old 6 cyl mods were indeed 3 one barrel carbs, but I would think more on the lines of maybe a adapter for a 2 barrell carb or a very small 4 barrell....
ck with clifford industries, they have a lot of inline six hop up stuff....

[sgtlethargic]

With that small of engine it would take 3 small carbs. Maybe a better choice would be 2 of what came on it

Wouldn't two of what it came with run pig rich?

[sgtlethargic]

Dont, I remember the 170 as having a cast in intake manifold with the head???
Some old 6 cyl mods were indeed 3 one barrel carbs, but I would think more on the lines of maybe a adapter for a 2 barrell carb or a very small 4 barrell....
ck with clifford industries, they have a lot of inline six hop up stuff....

Yes, integral intake manifold, but that can be dealt with by changing to a 250 head.

"16. Era specific carbs only, stock appearing- no modern Holley, Edelbrock, or other aftermarket carbs."

I'd think a more modern 2bbl carb and a 4bbl wouldn't fit the rule.

[64 DODGE 440]

Wouldn't two of what it came with run pig rich?

Yes, integral intake manifold, but that can be dealt with by changing to a 250 head.

"16. Era specific carbs only, stock appearing- no modern Holley, Edelbrock, or other aftermarket carbs."

I'd think a more modern 2bbl carb and a 4bbl wouldn't fit the rule.

I've run pairs of stock carbs on various cars on the street in the past...never did any rejetting and never had any problems with mixture.

There are quite a few "vintage" two barrel carbs that work well. As for the cast as part of the head intake...look at what Toymaker did on their car...simple and seems to work very well with a pair of two barrel carbs into the modified stock, cast in unit manifold.

There are many ways to solve the problem, but the 250 head is not a factory part for the 170 series engine, so probably not really acceptable within the rules.

[HEATHEN]

Yes, integral intake manifold, but that can be dealt with by changing to a 250 head.


????????? Every Ford 250 I ever saw still had an integral intake manifold.


Since all the Offenhauser or Edelbrock three carb setups were, were an aluminum casting that bolted on top of the stock intake log after you bored two extra holes in it with a holesaw, I don't see why you couldn't make two more carb risers out of the correct diameter straight exhaust tubing and two bolt exhaust flanges and braze or weld them to the intake.

[nexxussian]

X2 on the adapt what you have (unless you already have the 250 head).

3 looks neat, but for the smaller displacement 2 might be better.

2 or 3 singles (as opposed to Deuces) might be a better plan. There were Rochester, Stromberg, Zenith.

Hmm

Old VWs used to run a Zenith, PICT 28 IIRC.

The '28s were spendy, but IIRC the '30s were fairly cheap (slightly larger).

Don't know what they cost now, but you might see what you can find.

Might take more than 3 of those though.

Good luck.

[Old6rodder]

Another thing I recall being done to the Ford cast-in log was cutting off the log and leaving as much of the three "connector" pipes as possible. Then lashing three motorcycle side drafts onto the stubs, usually with an insert tube that fit the carbs tucked into the stubs.

The one that sticks in my mind the best used three big Amals, but anything off period bikes'd be cool. Bings, brass Carters, HD SUs, whatever. :cool:

But then, I guess I am rather prejudiced toward side suckers. :D

[sgtlethargic]

????????? Every Ford 250 I ever saw still had an integral intake manifold.


...

You're right. I thought I'd read they are removable.

[OBFB HA/GR]

What you need is a factory Ford Australia 2V Cylinder head , they have a removable intake with 6 huge intake ports. A couple of our guys run them on there HA/GR ,They make a huge difference to your little 6 and they are factory Ford.

[CrkInsp]

OBFB
How about some pictures of these heads. They sound interesting.

[sgtlethargic]

What's the going rate for one of them there Aussie 2V heads to the U.S.?

[Old6rodder]

What you need is a factory Ford Australia 2V Cylinder head , they have a removable intake with 6 huge intake ports. A couple of our guys run them on there HA/GR ,They make a huge difference to your little 6 and they are factory Ford.

Curiosity, factory Ford when?

[ThingyM]

Toymaker runs 2 Stromberg 97s on his 170..Bored two holes in the intake, Blocked off the stock plentum.made two carb risers/adapters.welded them on. His car flys with that setup...

[Drewfus]

Curiosity, factory Ford when?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Straight-6_engine

In 1970, Ford of Australia developed the 250 cid motor. the head was of the same design as previous models, with an integral intake catering for 1 single barrel stromberg carburettor. In the configuration, the falcon six was rated at 155 hp (116 kW). Around this time Ford of Australia also developed the '2V' cylinder head, which in all respects was similar to the previous integral "log head" intake, with the exception of a removable aluminum intake which mounted a Stromberg 2-v carburetor. To take advantage of the much improved breathing ability that the removable intake brought to the new head, the 250-2v also mounted a much better breathing exhaust manifold. The result was the engine being rated at 170 hp (127 kW).
For years the 250-2V cylinder head was very popular for racing and many have been imported to North America, where owners of cars with the Falcon inline six have upgraded their engines with the better cylinder head

On average these bring around 2-400mark (oz $), although, know of many that have been thrown out over time, replaced by a V8. Just gotta be in the right spot at the right time.

For refference sake, here's a photo from a Ford forum...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/DrewfusDesigns/HAGR/2vFORD6.jpg

[mart3406]

"I'm looking for carb ideas for a Ford 170. I
know next to nothing about carbs. I'd like
multiple carbs- three seems like it'd fit the
six best. Cost is a major factor. Somewhere
in that thread someone mentioned tractor
updrafts there is an abandoned tractor
near me. Thanks"- Kurt

---------------------------------

[QUOTE mudflap261 http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/hamb/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=5073841#post5073841)wrote:

"With that small of engine it would take
3 small carbs. Maybe a better choice
would be 2 of what came on it"


To which =sgtlethargic;5074036] (Kurt)
replied:

"Wouldn't two of what it came with run
pig rich?"



------------------------------------------
"Pig rich" ? Possibly, but not neccessarily. In your opening
statement, you stated that you "know almost nothing about
carbs" Nothing wrong with that- we all started - and have
to start, somewhere. But if you're going to start messing
with non-stock and especialy, with non-stock multiple carb
set-ups you really need to educate youself a bit on how
carbs function before you try making major changes and
"improving" things! Anytime you put a non-stock carb or
particularly, add multiple carbs, stock-type or otherwise,
to an engine, you're almost certainly going to have to play
with jetting and other stuff in order to properly calibrate
and dial in the new set-up to your engine. Nothing other
than a bone-stock factory original carb, pn an equally
bone stock, original engine is going to be just "bolt on
and go" or work perfectly "out of the box" without some
tweeking, tuning and calibration work. Secondly, using
two (or more) stock type carbs, the carbs might, but
won''t neccessaeilly be jetted too big or run too rich. The
stock carbs could in fact even end up being too lean and
require bigger than stock jets even! It's going to be trial
and error, based on your engine combination. Here's why.
A carb uses a jet -ie - a metered, calibrated, internal fuel
leak to regulate the flow of fuel from the float bowl to
the the venturi. But that's not the whole story. A venturi
operates by causing a pressure drop based on airflow.
The smaller the venturi a nd /or the greater the airflow
through the venturii, the greater the pressure drop and
the more fuel that will be drawn through a given jet size.
If you you add more carbs - ie - more jets and more
venturis.(and in effect, more venturi area), the total
airflow through each individual venturi will be reduced,
for any given rpm or engine load..When you reduce the
airflow, you have less of a pressure drop through the
venturi, causing less fuel to be drawn out of the jet.
The mixture richness or leaness is not simply a function
of jet size or the number of jets, but rather, a
combination of jet size and venturi size and airflow.

As for adding multiple stock-type carrbs to a 170 inch-6
with an integral manifold. - back in the '60's Offy used
to offer a 3-1bbl kit for these engines that kept the
original carb in the stock locatain and then added 2
more stock-type 1-bbl catbs that bolted on to each
end of the stock integral manifold, via a pair of cast
alluminum adapters. The kit came with a template for
correctly positining the adapters on the intake and it
requred that you pull the head off the engine to bore
holes into the intake, for mounting the two additional
carbs and the adapters I remember the kit used the
late-'50's-early-'60's 'glass-bowl' Ford-Holley 1-bbls
and came with a progrssive throttle linkage. 'Back in
the day', especially before a V8 became available in
the Falcons,the Offy 3-1bbl.kit was a popular and
commonly used set-up for waking up the little 144
and 170-inch Falcon 6's.

Mart3406
================================

[sgtlethargic]

Toymaker runs 2 Stromberg 97s on his 170..Bored two holes in the intake, Blocked off the stock plentum.made two carb risers/adapters.welded them on. His car flys with that setup...

Didn't you forget to 'cough-cough' when saying Toymaker's gotta 170?

[ThingyM]

Well Sarg.. I have a 194 chev with 2 Holley 94s on a homemade plentum. works just fine..Remember.. When you are running a small motor, Build a light car....

[Old6rodder]

Didn't you forget to 'cough-cough' when saying Toymaker's gotta 170?

Why yes, I do believe the boy forgot to include the correct adjectives. :D

Too new or not, that six hole Ford head sure looks sweet with those SUs. :cool:
Of course, I may be just a tad prejudiced. :D

Drewfus, two questions.

Are the chambers on that '70 head identical to the '62 design? That is to say; is the only difference the ports and runners?

Would these heads bolt to the early blocks? Or is the 250 too different?

Edit:

OK I did some homework on the Ford sixes. Thanks, Drewfus, for the link.

Do I have this right?
The four main '63 200 that the '62 rule stretch was intended for wouldn't take the six hole head.
The seven main '65 200 would take the head, but is already stretching the rule farther then intended.

[Drewfus]

Firstly, appoligies for detracting from the original thread topic...

Drewfus, two questions.

Are the chambers on that '70 head identical to the '62 design? That is to say; is the only difference the ports and runners?

Would these heads bolt to the early blocks? Or is the 250 too different?


I'm not overly knowledgeable with the ford six's, however, I'm led to believe that 250 2V head will fit all the earlier 6's, with a good combo being on the 221.

Note: it is reccommended to use the later 250 Head gasket, as it has some design features that will offer a better service for higher compression

As for the chamber design etc, I honestly don't know, will ask a couple ford 6 nutters and find out for you.

Cheers,

Drewfus

[sgtlethargic]

Well Sarg.. I have a 194 chev with 2 Holley 94s on a homemade plentum. works just fine..Remember.. When you are running a small motor, Build a light car....

Sounds good. My carb choice will probably come down to what I find for the right price.

[sgtlethargic]

Welp, I went junkyarding for the first time since I've lived in these parts, and I scored some carbs. Whaddaya think- do these fit within the carb rule?

[sgtlethargic]

^^^ Anybody?

[97]

Welp, I went junkyarding for the first time since I've lived in these parts, and I scored some carbs. Whaddaya think- do these fit within the carb rule?

Yes CD Strombergs are old enough and should work pretty well. However if you have never worked with these before I would advise you to read a manual before you take them apart... the diaphragm is quite sensitive and easily torn if you don't follow correct procedure . They have an adjustable metering system ...either the needle moves or the jet depending on which model you have.
The Haynes manual is not bad, and ther are several online free manuals as well...check out " the old car manual project" or just google CD Stromberg manual....

They were fitted to all sorts of cars from Volvo 4s to Rover V8s and Mercedes sixes ....so should be OK. They are similar in operation to SUs.

[64 DODGE 440]

They aren't four barrels or late model Holleys, appear to be later Jaguar. Don't know anything about diaphram style SUs, but if you can make 'em work...go for it. Just my two cents.

[Old6rodder]

Yes CD Strombergs are old enough and should work pretty well. However if you have never worked with these before I would advise you to read a manual before you take them apart... the diaphragm is quite sensitive and easily torn if you don't follow correct procedure . They have an adjustable metering system ...either the needle moves or the jet depending on which model you have.
The Haynes manual is not bad, and ther are several online free manuals as well...check out " the old car manual project" or just google CD Stromberg manual....

They were fitted to all sorts of cars from Volvo 4s to Rover V8s and Mercedes sixes ....so should be OK. They are similar in operation to SUs.

Yes indeed, be very careful with the effing diaphragms.
Just ask "ol' fumblethumbs" here why. :o
Other than that I've had good results from various diaphragm carbs over the years, particularly on bikes.

What throat size did you get?

[sgtlethargic]

They're Zenith Stromberg 175 CD-2 carbs, and I assume the 175 is for the 1.75" diameter. They're off a '70 Jaguwire XJ6 which was painted flat black. I got two off the engine, and about one-and-a-half spares from the trunk. I also gotta steering box from a Corvair. It's not an aluminium, though.

>>> http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=469119

[64 DODGE 440]

They're Zenith Stromberg 175 CD-2 carbs, and I assume the 175 is for the 1.75" diameter. They're off a '70 Jaguwire XJ6 which was painted flat black. I got two off the engine, and about one-and-a-half spares from the trunk. I also gotta steering box from a Corvair. It's not an aluminium, though.

>>> http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=469119

So start building already.:p

[OBFB HA/GR]

We need pic's , lotsa pics

[ScottV]

They're off a '70 Jaguwire XJ6 which was painted flat black.

Hmmm .... must have been a "Rat Rod" ...:p

[FANTASY FACTORY]

Wouldn't two of what it came with run pig rich?

Quite the opposite, with no other changes to the valve train, stroke or bore, the signal would be so week as to caue a big fat stumble from being lean, unles he jacked the acc pumps.

Ita amazing how many 4 bbls i correct just by disconnecting the seconaries.

[ThingyM]

If it's the cast iron Vair box.. I don't think you can reverse that one..Just nmake it work.. Know 0, nadda, nothing about Jag carbs..Thats the idea of this class, Just use what ya got....

[quick7]

I just reversed a cast iron box,same way you reverse an aluminum one.

2ea 1 bbl holleys from an early slant 6 will work great.