Cross steering rack and pinion exists, thanks to Speedway. [Archive]

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Deuce Rails

11-15-2003, 08:17 PM

I thought that this was pretty cool.

Speedway has come out with a rack-and-pinion that only works on one side, so it can be used for a cross-steer setup. Here's a pic:

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/eCCStoreFront/smi/product_images//Full/91032245.jpg

I think that this is a GREAT idea. Plus, anyone could use a junkyard rack to do the same thing.

Is this out of the blue, or has this been done before? Is this as ingenious as I think it is?

--Matt

Darwin

11-15-2003, 10:26 PM

It's not quite out of the blue. That looks like the Maval unit that's been advertised and commented on in the mags for a couple of months although that's a lot better pic than I've seen so far. I kinda like it.

gofast62

11-15-2003, 10:29 PM

i put a rack on a dropped tube axel 3 years ago, works fine!

Tman

11-15-2003, 11:22 PM

Yeah, Speedway is just selling it. Definately the answer to the question never asked. GAY

**DONOTDELETE**

11-16-2003, 06:22 AM

I can predict more bump-steer with that thing than with a frame-mounted steering gearbox because of the shorter draglink.

WZ JUNK

11-16-2003, 08:53 AM

Saw one on a car last month. It was a test of the Maval or Speedway unit. Owner said it worked great and the only flaw was a slightly less turning radius. Price is good when you compare to the prices of the Vega boxes.

Fat Hack

11-16-2003, 09:14 AM

Ha Ha...yeah, who woulda ever thought that VEGA parts would one day be high-dollar!! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

I think the mini-rack looks a little goldchainerish, but hidden in a fendered car it has potential!

Contemporary rodders will LOVE it, I'm sure.

ray

11-16-2003, 09:42 AM

yeah so whats the advantage?

lose steering radius?

vega parts are not THAT expensive. from what i recall the rack is comparable to the NEW style vega boxes in cost?

i'm not doubting it could be a good idea, just want to see the cost/benefit.

Deuce Roadster

11-16-2003, 11:03 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Price is good when you compare to the prices of the Vega boxes.

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

There is a junk yard about 20 miles from my house with at least 50 Vegas. I paid $25 for a box that had less than 30,000 miles (tree fell on it). At the same time, I got a spare one for $20. It was High miles....45,000 miles. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Fat Hack

11-16-2003, 11:05 AM

Time was, you could buy a whole Vega for $25!

(I got one for free and traded it for a radio controlled car!)

I think they're a tough find anywhere here...even junkyards! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

flamedabone

11-16-2003, 12:48 PM

One of my lurker budies down here put one on his no-fendered roadster. If you have hood sides, you really have to squat your ass down and look hard to see it.

He fuckin LOVES it. Says it's the best thing he ever did for the car. I think he gave about 350 for the whole set up. A true bolt in replacement for his Vega box.

Just my buddies .02. -Abone.

Tman

11-16-2003, 01:54 PM

And you can buy a brand new "Vega" box for $375

mr57

11-16-2003, 01:57 PM

I am sure that that old show rod "Uncertain T" had a half-rack (TM) pointed front to back along the frame, with the rack hooked up to the steering arm. This was back in the late 60's....

Killer

11-16-2003, 03:24 PM

http://photo.starblvd.net/akakiller56/6-3-3.jpg

Deuce Rails

11-17-2003, 03:22 PM

"Uncertain T" had a modified MGA rack and pinion steering! That's amazing to me.

I don't think anyone would use the Speedway box instead of a vega box to save money. They're both the same price. I think you'd do it for the reason Abone describes: his buddy "fucking LOVES it."

I definitely prefer rack and pinion setups to any other design. In fact, I'm thinking about using the Speedway box or a full rack and pinion from the Chassis Shop for a SCTA modified roadster. Any comments on this idea?

Hey, SJFast, I didn't understand your post at all.

--Matt

**DONOTDELETE**

11-17-2003, 03:47 PM

Duece....The shorter the draglink the higher the probababilty of bump-steer. This design appears to move the left pivot point of the draglink closer to the right front spindle's steering arm.

metalshapes

11-17-2003, 04:24 PM

SJ could be right.
If that turns out to be a problem you would have to modify the Panhard bar mount ( and the Panhard bar length) to compensate.

Darwin

11-17-2003, 05:04 PM

The drag link rod pivots fairly close to the unit so it looks like the effective arm length would be about 2-3" shorter than a Vega. Might make somewhat of a difference in bumpsteer but it might not be particularly noticeable with the limited axle travel of the typical rod. Flamedabone's buddy apparently loves it but it would be nice if a hard core HAMBer could drive one so we can get some first-hand feeback. Seems like the turning radius deficit could be addressed with shorter steering arms.

Nick32vic

11-17-2003, 10:10 PM

I talked to the Maval guys about there "Unisteer" they call it. And it is SUPPOSED to work great. They kept say that there is virtually no bump steer.

I was thinking about getting it but i figured it would look ugly without fenders and hood sides plus i had already got a super deal on a Flaming River "vega" box. I bought my vega box from a buddy that used it for a year then wanted rack and pinion so he sold me the Vega Box, cross steer, drag link, tie rods and pitman arm for 100 bucks.

Another guy around here that owns a "rod" shop ,if you wanna call it that, was WELDING at rack and pinion to his super bell axle and instead of using steering knuckles he is gonna use a cable! He thinks its gonna be his neatest inventions since sliced bread. I think hes gonna kill himself.

Nick

**DONOTDELETE**

11-18-2003, 07:11 AM

Nick....Mounting the rack to the axle is the BEST way to eliminate bump-steer altogether. The idea to use a flexible cable between the column and the pinion will be fine providing he selects the correct one.

fab32

11-18-2003, 07:21 AM

SJ, I agree that a flexable cable can be used. A cable was used in early Mustang II installations from the factory. It was discontinued after a bit due to unwanted sloppy feel in the steering under some conditions. A much better solution is a telescoping shaft to connect the column to the rack.

Frank

**DONOTDELETE**

11-18-2003, 07:32 AM

Yep ! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Rocky

11-18-2003, 07:44 AM

By buddy, John, uses a full rack behind his super bell on his 29 RPU...mounts to the bottom of the frame. He says he loves it. I dunno.....he doesn't even use a panhard bar. Looks scary to me but he drives the shit out of it.

musicrodder

08-28-2006, 07:28 AM

Speedway has come out with a rack-and-pinion that only works on one side, so it can be used for a cross-steer setup.

Hello, Newbie here introducing myself. I'm John and have a full fendered 1926 Ford Tudor streetrod with a dropped axle with rack and pinion steering. Previous owner installed it to the frame, not sure if I want to keep it. No panhard bar installed, didn't notice any difference with or without it. Trying to find out more about improving what I have versus replacing with a steering box. Thanks, this is a great site!

Darwin

08-28-2006, 08:29 AM

Many here have said that a frame mounted rack is a clear invitation to bump steer but seems like it's highly dependent on the individual installation. Theory sometimes collides with the behavior of a given particular setup. The next guy down the block might virtually duplicate your setup and have intolerable bump steer.

The new cross-steer Speedway/Maval rack setup looks very slick and good reports have been posted here with the only real sqawk being a reduced turning circle. It's not cheap but a new Flaming River Vega box isn't either and the rack doesn't require a pitman arm. Old school it ain't but it does seem to operate as advertised.

Deuce Roadster

08-28-2006, 08:39 AM

http://hotrodders.com/journal_photos/00003880/11456602170.jpg

http://hotrodders.com/journal_photos/00003880/11431451842.jpg

I bought one ... and I like it so far ... but have not driven it ... :(
It is a lot easier to turn the wheels ... when sitting still than the Vega is on my Roadster.

Everyone I have talked with who has one ... likes it. I have a friend who just bought a 32 with a Vega box at the Nationals and he went and bought a Maval Unisteer to put on it when he got home. He had a car before with the Unisteer ..

:rolleyes:

RJP

08-28-2006, 08:52 AM

used a rack 30 yrs ago on a A. Mounted it on the frame facing forward, cut one side off and used the other as a push pull arrangement (kinda like the swing you get from a standard steering box). Worked like a dream. Most of this "new" stuff isn't. It just has better advertising.

musicrodder

08-29-2006, 05:38 AM

Thanks everyone for posting responses to my inquiry. I was considering disconnecting the driver side of my rack and pinion as long as it doesn't fall apart, not sure of it's internals. I was told it might be from a Chevy Cavalier, but I can't tell. It seems that by running it to the passenger side wheel and then using a tie-rod to pick up the driver side wheel would reduce some unwanted bumpsteer. Does this idea make sense compared to having both ends of the rack connected to the steering arms on both wheels? My goal is to still keep some responsiveness while being safe. Thanks, John.

Bart Wilkinson

12-05-2009, 07:45 PM

Hey! Been thinking about R &P on the touring I'm building. I've got a 4in. drop tube and wanted to try to attach it directly to the axel. I'm not sure that it would line up correctly and I've also heard it could be a problem if useing hairpin wishbones. Any thoughts on this? Thanks, Bart

scottybaccus

12-05-2009, 08:17 PM

Attaching a 10-20 pound chunk to the axle will increase unsprung weight substantially, overworking the shocks and inducing all kind of unknowns to the dynamic behavior of the suspension. Not a good idea.

The main reason for choosing a rack and pinion steering gear is to improve the steering with lower effort, improved road feel and less steering play. Increased unsprung weight is simply counter to that whole idea.

I don't see that there is enough to be gained when using a solid axle to worry about using a rack. I took a turn behind the wheel of a friends '27 roadster recently and it handled like a go-cart with a vega box. Went for a ride in another '27 roadster soon after using cowl steering and drag link. Same deal. Go-cart quick response, no slop, little effort (how much does a 2000 lb car require?). I think it's a gimmick.

I also disagree with bump steer concerns on these cars. Unless you have a drastic situation, the amount of bump steer possible is limited, then take into account that the average suspension travel on these cars is only about 1.5" on most roads and you have only a fraction of that bump steer showing up. It's very unlikely that anything less than a professional road race driver would be able to detect it, especially on typical modern road surfaces. Get on a bad road and even the best set-up will be pushed around by the bumps.

69fury

12-05-2009, 08:18 PM

Maybe ShakyPuddin will post his pics of his Unisteer setup. I think all the parts are visible in one picture. Some might have landed on the ground, though......

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=200953&highlight=unisteer

oldskooloutlaw

12-05-2009, 10:24 PM