View Full Version : Paint Guru's advice needed


34toddster
02-05-2010, 04:11 PM
I think PPG's DP primer/sealers and I have come to the end of our relationship. Don't get me wrong PPG products are as good as the next but I want to find a bare,sand blasted metal sealer that I can afford and works as a bare metal primer and a sealer for top coating.
What are you guys using in your shop, I live in an area where I don't have the EPA police on me for not using water borne products...Cost is also a issue.. Thanks for your input.

SlowandLow63
02-05-2010, 04:24 PM
HOK epoxy primer! It fits all the criteria you mentioned and more. Excellent fill, adhesion to just about anything, and the ability to act as a sealer. ~$100/gal

34toddster
02-05-2010, 04:32 PM
HOK epoxy primer! It fits all the criteria you mentioned and more. Excellent fill, adhesion to just about anything, and the ability to act as a sealer. ~$100/gal

Thanks Bill at $100 a gallon I'll try it

RMR&C
02-05-2010, 04:53 PM
I've been using Omni mp170 epoxy, it works good over bare steel. I also use it as a sealer reduced with a little lacquer thinner to make it flow out. Price was about $90 gal for both parts, now I see it's gone up to $ 125.........I think I may go back to Kirker, it's a little cheaper.

deadendcruiser
02-05-2010, 05:28 PM
HOK epoxy primer! It fits all the criteria you mentioned and more. Excellent fill, adhesion to just about anything, and the ability to act as a sealer. ~$100/gal
What he said. Ive used it on my Buick with no problems.

choppershox
02-05-2010, 05:53 PM
Try refinishes solution. I spray an old school zinc etch first just because I dont trust any direct to metal..Its in my nature . Their site is www.Matrixsystem.com (http://www.Matrixsystem.com) .... Check outhttp://www.matrixsystem.com/images/products/general/photo_primer_2.jpg
Products >> Primers (http://www.matrixsystem.com/products.php?t1=1) >> Direct to Metal Primers (http://www.matrixsystem.com/products.php?t2=1)
Matrix offers a full line of primers, including, two-component urethanes, self etches, corrosion-resistant epoxies, acrylic lacquers, and compliant 2.1-VOC primer surfacers that offer premium-quality performance. Many are available with a variety of colors, with compatible reducers and accelerators to increase your productivity - and profits.


MP-400 EPOXY PRIMER - GREEN/GREY
MP-400 is part of the MP-Epoxy Primers that provide maximum protection and adhesion to metal surfaces. MP-400 provides medium film build to help eliminate imperfections and can be lightly sanded.

choppershox
02-05-2010, 05:54 PM
Hope that gave a little help. Ive used them for years with zero problems. Dave

Flatheadguy
02-05-2010, 05:59 PM
Do not turn your back on Kirker!! I have used it for many, many years. Aircraft and cars...hot rods, street rods and so on. Results are equal to PPG, Dupont and the others. Cost is VERY reasonable. Drawbacks? One. Color selection. They do not offer thity-seven thousand colors. For all types of primers......can't be beat. But, keep in mind that we all have our favorites. Nobody is right if everyone else is wrong.

kenseth17
02-05-2010, 06:04 PM
Don't have a shop, but this is what I've been using at home of late, on the occasional side job and relative vehicle. I use to like ppg too, and shot quite a bit of deltron products in the early 90's even though the shops I worked in always used dupont. I can't take the prices on the stuff anymore though. The best combination for quality, ease and prices so far has been pro spray for color, and Southern Polyurethanes for just about everything else.

Southern Polyurethanes Epoxy Primer and universal clearcoat. I've used a bit of omni epoxy, and not too bad, but Southern polyurethanes is better, and about the same price. More build to southern polyurethanes, Never tested, but one guy said it held up the best of various epoxys he tested. test panels made up and tested with the yooper adhesion test, a 12 gauge shotgun at 25 yards. I believe it one epoxy that still has zinc in it, and it has more build then omni. Also dry fairly glossy for checking bodywork and can actually be dry sanded in about a day, most others will just ball up the paper even if you let them sit forever. Will probably try southern polyurethanes urethane primers next time I have a need, have been using various, from omni, transtar, marhyde, ect. Can't say enough about the quality of Southern polyurethanes universal polyurethane clearcoat, even discounting the very fair price.

For basecoat, I've been using prospray base, by usc lately. Has run half the price of dbc I was quoted for the last few colors I shot using it. Coverage has been good, preforms the same, match been pretty good cept one was a little off on the intensity of pearl compared to the factory color, and is a polyester base just like the better lines. And since they have a mixing system and formulas, your not limited to a handful of colors like kirker, restoration shop, ect.
Have used utech base once or twice, and didn't seem too bad either.

Have used enough limco and Omni in the past when trying to save a buck (and shot lot of these in the past working for a used car dealer) and they can be pretty disappointing. Slower enamel bases, very poor coverage on lots of colors, poorer metallic control, and wouldn't want to be using them trying to match factory colors. After about 5 coats of omni quasar blue on an old cavalier, still wondering if I had coverage, said enough as enough and started searching for better bases that were still affordable.

The only drawback for me being smaller companys, and a smaller town, not as many suppliers and no supplier of these products in my area. I've been ordering southern polyurethanes and pro spray from a guy in Michigan that handles both, and not too bad, as he is affordable on shipping, and even covered it on my last order since I ordered a fair amount, and usually at the door in 2 to 3 days.

flamed34
02-05-2010, 06:27 PM
I've used various primers but absolutely love PPG's K38. It can be applied directly to prepped steel, although I tend to use an etch primer first (old habits). K38 is VERY high build, with minimal shrink, and is the easiest thing I have found for blocking. K36 is also available...a little less fill, slower drying, but can be tinted to help in coverage of the top coat. Once blocking is complete, there is no need to seal - just go straight to top coat. I've painted a lot of cars / trucks / etc using K38, and have never had a problem. It is pricey, but I've tried other products without the same results so I guess the price is worth it to me.

I'd be interested in HOK results vs K38 for anyone that has used both?

5window
02-05-2010, 07:48 PM
Do not turn your back on Kirker!! I have used it for many, many years. Aircraft and cars...hot rods, street rods and so on. Results are equal to PPG, Dupont and the others. Cost is VERY reasonable. Drawbacks? One. Color selection. They do not offer thity-seven thousand colors. For all types of primers......can't be beat. But, keep in mind that we all have our favorites. Nobody is right if everyone else is wrong.

Ah. I don't know squat about paint,but I do know a bit about Rock and Roll.

What Buffalo Springfield sang was "Nobody's right if everybody's wrong".
If every body else is wrong,you still could be right or wrong. Right?

paintguy
02-06-2010, 07:37 AM
if you need a cheaper alternative to PPG's dp primers try the PPG CPC line EPX-900/901 epoxy.It is a one to one mix and you get 2 sprayable gallons for about $70.This will also work as a sealer but the only drawback is you cannot put regular body filler over it like the DP epoxy.

Stude-sled
02-06-2010, 07:52 AM
Hok

prost34
02-06-2010, 08:32 AM
hok

coopsdaddy
02-06-2010, 10:40 AM
Can you do bondo work over the hok?or is it better to do it on bear metal?

zman
02-06-2010, 11:08 AM
HOK epoxy primer! It fits all the criteria you mentioned and more. Excellent fill, adhesion to just about anything, and the ability to act as a sealer. ~$100/gal

We recently switched to just using the HOK epoxy primer, very happy with it, and I dig the green...

SlowandLow63
02-06-2010, 03:50 PM
Can you do bondo work over the hok?or is it better to do it on bear metal?

Both. Usually I rough stuff out with filler with it in bare metal, then primer, guide coat and block. That way I can see whats going on and add more filler if needed.

famous59
02-06-2010, 04:01 PM
Check out Sherwinn Williams line of primers, SW is what I have been using lately, great build up and easy to sand.

Personally stay away from omni, especially their clears... might look good at first but Ive seen the suns damage

Customs&Color
02-06-2010, 04:03 PM
I also really like the HOK. I've only used the KP2CF, they have another that is a DTM but I've never used it. Just had my last go around today using cheaper products, from now on I'm only using good quality products regardless of price or what the customer wants.

dwcustom
02-13-2010, 03:51 PM
For over 20 years I have used the same method witout ever having a problem. PPG 1791-1792 etching primer on the bare metal. 24 hours later scotch brite(red) and apply 3 coats Marhyde 2-K primer. All body work is done over the Marhyde. Whenever bare metal is exposed, apply 1791-1792 to prevent future rust problems. Some guys don't know what humidity is, so they never had to fight rust. My shop is within 1/8 mile of the ocean in Fla., so trust me, I know of what I speak. Marhyde primer is less than $100. / gal (incl. activator).

D-fens
02-13-2010, 04:30 PM
I use PPG Shopline sealer, which I'm told has replaced the OMNI line.

Not trying steer you away from trying another brand, but Shopline is considerably less expensive than PPG DP-series sealer and is compatible with PPG paints.

A lot of people are talking up HOK. Have the prices come down?

zman
02-13-2010, 04:32 PM
A lot of people are talking up HOK. Have the prices come down?

Years ago.

low-n-slo54
02-13-2010, 08:19 PM
not to hijack, but has anyone used this?

http://www.paintforcars.com/kits_aquapearl.html

sik_kreations
02-15-2010, 01:14 PM
northstar has a pretty good epoxy ive used of late. hok's kp2cf is nice shit. i would use that first on large baremetal over kd2000. spi's epoxy is another option. im more a fan of using a true epoxy over all baremetal, then a epoxy/2k/dtm hybrid.

chopolds
02-15-2010, 05:08 PM
HOK for me. Why?
Don't need anything else!
Great for bare metal adhesion. Same for fiberglass, and other substrates.
Also has relatively high build, so you can fill minor scratches, pinholes, etc.
Easy to sand, esp. for an epoxy!
Can be used as a seal coat as well.

Good water resistant finish, not as porous as some primers.
Don't have to worry about compatability betweem etching, build, and seal products....or cure times before recoating, or having the correct hardeneres, reducers....stick with ONE system!
AND the price isn't bad, either!
Can you tell I'm a big fan of Jon Kosmoski?