How to build a 10 second strip screamer for the HAMB Drags..

[SamIyam]

I get the feeling a lot of people think that a 10 second car is unobtainium.
If you remember back to the 80's... HRM did a piece called Caddy Hack where they trimmed shit off an old Caddilac until it ran 10's...

To pull it off... there are really only three things to consider... weight, horsepower and traction... oh, and the MOST important thing... build it with a bunch of buddies...

When we started the BFD, it was meant to be a free-for-all to drive... but as most of my projects go... we ended up getting into it a little deaper than planned... hence, instead of a 12 second car... we ended up with a fire breathing 10 second car... we owe a lot of that to RACEFAB for building the motor the way he did... when Gordon stepped up to the challenge, RACEFAB also stepped up the set of head on the motor... and we stepped up a few other things... none of which is unobtainium to a group of guys worrking on one of yous' garages...

So last time I laid out a challenge to the HAMB community... that was the beating around the bush way to say "hey guys, lets see how much fun a group of guys can have over the next six months..."

It didn't go over as well as it should have... granted, there was a valant effort on Roothawgs and Gordini's parts... their cars were amazing on two different levels... Gordon's because it was built in three weeks and one day... (I don't think I could come near doing it that fast) and Root's because it was all finished up and about as period correct (stance, paint, etc) as ANYTHING i've seen at the drags in YEARS...

So you guys are probably wondering WTF is Sam doing here? Well, I just want to throw out some tips and tricks for you guys in hopes that the performances will be up for next year... my biggest wish is for a group of you guys to meet in a garage, once a week, pool your cash together (a grand each aught to do it) and build a true ten second screamer for next years' drags...

Step one: I know the sedans and coups are pretty... but there is some merit to a roadster body... more specifically, a FIBERGLASS roadster body... For one, they are CHEAP... the BFD's body was found by my brother out in a field... so we went with it... but if I had it to do over... I'd stick with a cheaper '23 tub and turtle deck... comb your swap meets guys... you should be able to get one for around $100-$200 used... The other merit is that they are light... and semi-stream lined compared to a closed car... I could almost guarantee, the stream-lined savings combined with the weight loss is enough to bump your high 11 second sled WELL into the 10's...

Step 2: The chassis:
Two things, weight distribution and suspension.
I started out with some 2x3 rails... the next Altered I build will be all round tube... why? Well, it is easier to build. First off, buy yourself an NHRA rule book and study the shit out of the funny car chassis specs... there are important bits about ube diameters and wall thicknesses that you will need to know... second, attent a Goodguys or NHRA drag race... this is CRUCIAL to the construction of your car. Take notes on how people mount things, especially the engine, the transmission and the rear end... the front end will be run of the mill, Speedway or MAS stuff... but the rear will either be mounted solid to the chassis or hung with ladder bars. FWIW, either way takes about the same amount of work... with ladder bars, you have the cost of the components... with the solid rear, you have just the cost of some steel plate... either way, it is much-o important to set it up STRAIGHT in the chassis and get the pinion angle set up correctly. Ladder bars you have to take suspension travel into consideration... with a solid rear, you have to take the balance of the vehicle under consideration... the car is either going to spin the tires, pull the front wheels off the ground, dart one way or the other, or bounce down the strip... all of which will have to be tuned with weight, tire pressure or stagger adjusted with the front hair pins. (that's why solid ends on hair pins aren't the ticket) Also, if "tens" are your target E.T... none of these will be so severe that the car is uncontrolable... (if all is set up square).

One of the cool things about this formula (so far) is that a candidate to go fast is really something that can be found at your nearest swap meet... i.e. T-bucket projects!!!
The front end is there... the frame is there... and the body is there! All you have to do is ditch the rear suspension for a more favorable solid mounted rear end and you're DONE! (well, almost)
The cage on your ten second wonder, to make it simple, should be built out of 1 5/8" .120 wall... you can build it to the minimums... but that may only add to the aggrivation of teching the damn thing... More specifically, I would drop the cash and buy all .125 DOM... the Electroweld tubing, even though you may buy .125 or .120... will not pass the .118 minimum for steel tubing in spots near the weld joint... all this is moot until the car runs 9's... but once you run tens for a while... you'll want this thing to run 9's! To close out step two... again, get a rule book and study it until you are blue in the face...

Step 3: Drive train.
This is where things get sticky... I mean, the cheapest way to make hp is through cubic inches... but most of the large cubic inch motors will be kinda big and heavy for an econo altered... if I were going the total junk yard route... I'd opt for a Buick 455... you will need about 400hp or a ton of tourque... the key here is to make the power and get it to the ground... I know smoking the hides is fun... but that does NOTHING for lowering your E.Ts... if you see SMOKE during a run... I can almost guarantee that you can shave a second off of your ET if you get rid of the smoke http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Another thing to consider is peak hp and overall rear end gear ratios (taking in consideration tire diameter). My suggestion is to keep the cam, carb, intake, exhaust on the hairy side of a stock motor... in other words. match all three components and make them as radical as possible with stock compression ratios and port volumes... you can do the home porting job and performance valve job... but save the killer bottom end for the next motor... Also, rear end ratios... if your cam only makes power to 5500rpm... gear the car and select a tire diameter that will hit 130mph in the lights... due to slippage and such, the thing should go at least 120 in the quarter... that is good for mid to high tens. As far as a transmission is concerend... think powerglide! (aluminumcase only) If your car weighs under 2500 pounds...it is a proven fact that it will run quicker ET's with a glide. Now a trans brake is almost a ncessity, as well as a race converter... so if you are going to sink any big bucks into this operation... do it here. The BFD runs in the tens without the trans brake... so if you are on a budget... just get a nice race converter with a stall speed that is about 500rpm past the number where your cam comes in... I tend to think that a looser converter will improve your ET's... but I have no hard fact on this... FWIW, the cam in the give away motor makes power from 2800 to 5800rpm... and we have a 4400-4800 converter.

Next up in the powertrain segment is ignition and ignition timing... Spend the bucks and buy an MSD 6Al box... (about $195) at least it will give you and upper end rev limiter... then if you decide to add a two step rev limiter (about $75) you can, later on. We had one from the get go... but it just aids in a consistant launch RPM (and no need to feather the gas pedal on the line... just stab and go!) Also, the pro-billet )as apposed to anti-billet) distributor is another $200... but well worth the money... you can run a points dizzy... but that is just one more thing to screw with... their coils are also reasonably priced and ready to run... as far as ignition timing goes... make sure your mark is dead nuts (check it with a degree wheel and/or a TDC guage) and set it up taking in consideration your motor's internals (Compression, fuel, cam, and most often forgotten... stroke)... Also, put the LIGHTEST springs available on your advance weights... or, just simply lock the advance curve out with a screw... with a low (relatively) compression ratio and a good spark, staring the thing shouldn't be a problem... the theory here is that you will be launching the thing at a relatively high rpm(3000rpm-4000rpm) and want all the timing in and accounted for... for high compression motors, MSD actually makes a timing retarder that allows you to back the timing off when cranking the motor... useless for what we are doing.

Now as far as tires go... a 10" slick is enough to put it to the ground... if you insist on buying used slicks (like I did) get a pair that has plenty of life, are not cracked and are still kinda soft... don't spend more than about $75 for a set of used drag slicks... and DO NOT, expect to get any kind of reasonable 60 ft E.T. out of a stock car slick, or retro pie crust slick...
as far as fronts are concerned... you do not need any brakes... so spindle mounts are a natural... but they are EXPENSIVE... so a set of aluminum centerlines on some stck hubs are fine... use your judgement here... but don't hang any brakes on the front... you don't need them, period.
(just make sure the rears are new!)
Front end set up... 15-20 degrees caster, 1/16" toe in and go... front tires are CHEAP... just make sure they are skinney.

And my suggestion for a rear end is a 9": ford or an 8 3/4 Mopar... buy a spool, used, they're cheap.
Step 4... safety stuff.
Everybody wants to know what they need to run "X" ET... here's a brake down for a little roadster that runs 10's

Aftermarket rear axles.
Arm Restraints.
Auto Trans reverse lock out.
5 point harness with up to date SFI rating ($100, tops)
Drive shaft loop.
SFI Harmonic balancer.
Snell rated helmet.
Catch can.
Padded roll cage.
SFI 32a/5 fire suit.
Neck collar
tail light.
trans shield.

This stuff is right out of the NHRA rule books quick reference chart... the neck collar is not manditory... but I would strongly suggest it... also, a master electrical cut off is not manditory... but I'd install one for ease of shutting the system down...

Now, as far as steering, seat, belt mounts, battery mount, engine mounts, fuel tank, blah-dee-blah-dee-blah... refer to the rulebook, check out other racers and by all means, if you have a question, feel free to e-mail me and I can send you pics of how I did it...

Keep it light, keep it simple, keep it CHEAP and JUST DO IT!

Any questions?
Sam.

[slazzen]

so are we gonna see a big buick in the BFD ????

[Dreamweaver]

500 inch caddys are cool torque monsters too, Hot Rod did a piece a while back using a 500 inch Cad with early heads in a chevette that really scooted.

[Ryan]

Anyone in attendance at the HAMB drags still think the Purple People Eater would run anything faster than a 14 sec quarter mile?

[AnimalAin]

Thanks, Sam. A well-written article covering the process and pointing out the most important part of race car building: figure out what is important and work on that. Clear thinking, excellent writing, and a bitch'n hot rod.

[raven61]

Thanks for making it succinct.
All in all, it's really simple when everything is thought out and in perspective.
r

[38Chevy454]

Sam has some good advice here. It is not rocket science to build a car to go fast, but it does require thoughtful planning and careful building. The trick to go fast is hp vs weight. Keep the weight down and the car can go faster with the same lower hp engine. You do not need a monster engine. Racefab built a good solid engine without any real trick parts, it is about 410 hp and based on mostly stock parts, except the heads have some porting work and the cam is obviously bigger than stock.

The idea to use a big inch stock engine as a starting point is a good one. Why not take advantage of the torque, which is what really accelerates your car. HP is just torque ouput of your engine over some time interval. Torque is the energy output of your engine and is what makes your car accelerate. So use a big inch engine if you want to go fast cheap.

As Sam said also, you need to get help from friends. We all do it with our street cars, so do the same with your race car. It does not require any real exotic tools, but some are specialized and you will need to invest a few bucks into tools or have friends that will loan you. Such as a tubing notcher and a good welder (not your 110v sheetmetal MIG unit!). You will need to fab brackets like crazy, so invest in a sawzall or band saw. All of these tools will have much useful life for many projects beyond this race car you are building. Some items like tubing benders you will have to just go to a pro shop and spend a few bucks for the service, that is not a usual home garage tool. Nothing wtong with some pro assistance when it is the most cost effective way to get it done.

Another important thing to keep in mind. You will need lots of motivation and determination. It does take a lot of work, and a fair amount of money. Use swap meet parts to help keep costs down. You will need to spend time in the garage, the car won't get built by sitting on your ass watching TV or chatting on the HAMB all night. Most important is to have fun. Even if you are seemingly stuck at some point or have lost motivation, stand back and look at what you have accomplished and get back on it. It will get done and then the real fun starts.

[wingnutz]

samIyam

That was the funniest article I read and went out and bought a Coupe Deville for the motor trans combo!

We were going to put it into a 1930 Vicky but my "buddy" Flinched and dropped a "high dollar" billet big block Chevy in it instead of the "Cad Brute".

So we set up the caddy for the Demolition Derby and took away the trophy, couple "hunnert bucks" and sold the hulk for another couple hunnert to a guy who cannibalized it for the motor and tranny combo for a Rod!

Do you know What issue that article was in ...? I'd like to get a copy of it to show "Ricers" what an "Old" luxury car can do!

Mark

[C9]

Good article Sam and some excellent points.
I hope everyone is paying attention.

[ QUOTE ]
The cage on your ten second wonder, to make it simple, should be built out of 1 5/8" .120 wall...

[/ QUOTE ]

Pretty sure what you want here is .134 wall.
1 5/8" .134 wall is common and you can special order 1 3/4" .134 wall.
Cost on the 1 3/4" isn't too much worse than the 1 5/8" stuff, but it takes 4-5 days to get it in most cases.

Get your tubing from a metal supply house.
Costs are quite reasonable from there.
As an example I bought 5 sticks - 20' long - of the 1 3/4" x .134 wall for under $200. tax included.

As far as special tools for brackets etc. go, the small metal cutting band saw at HF works well.
It can be used in the vertical mode.
I made a larger table or whatever you want to call it for mine and with a little imagination you can cut out some interesting parts.
When the parts get complex - curves etc. - a series of drilled holes, hammer & chisel and a grinder work fine.
A plasma cutter would be nice, but you swap time for convenience.

Did I mention, "Neat Car?"

Neat car....

[Mike Landwehr]

That is one of the most comprehensive well written rundown/how to's I have ever seen , Nice work on both the car AND your rundown,D

[Rocky]

All good points and well written too. Thanks, Sam.

[Roothawg]

Quote:
But their performance lacked... FWIW, the Roach Rod would have given either one of them... (and Ryan ) a run for their money... hahahaha (another match race???)


I wish the Fly had been up to snuff but I didn't have time to get any shakedown runs like I wanted before hand.

With all the bodywork,paint, building the chassis, rollcage, and building the motor I didn't have the time I needed. I wish Racefab would have built my motor because that would have freed up so much time I could have concentrated more on the performance. And with only 2 people working on it, it takes much more time.
I will guarantee it will be right by the next HAMB drags.


Root

[Ryan]

Root, you have nothing to apologize for... That car was amazing and the highlite of my weekend...

[Boones]

Rumor is a certain Abone drive from SC who just got back from the drags found a Henry J this weekend to put together.. Its gonna be a straight axled, raised rear fender jobber... Now he just has to find a cheap Caddy motor/tranny...

[SamIyam]

Exactly Root... your car was tops in my book... even to the point where I feel it captures the essence of the day better than what we put together. I think what you have is super cool and you're right... the engine RACEFAB did build for the auction helped us get there... but I have to say, if RACEFAB didn't do the engine for us... something that makes as much power is only about as far away as a Summit Cataolog.
Sam.

[Mai Ki-Ki]

Root...

The Fly was the coolest thing ever!...
Just whip there arses next year!......

MAIKI

[Roothawg]

Sam ...Whatever….just sounded a little condescending to me.


MaiKiKi- Thanks, I appreciate it.

[tucker]

Root- It sounded a bit that way to me too. As arrogant as Germ without the fun.

[Radshit]

I have to agree with Rashy on this one too. Sounds a bit condescending to all concerned.

I was impressed with your finess and technical capability on the Hokey ass Digger. Far exceeds my resources, for the time being.

But let's see how you do next year without the RACEFAB motor...........

[Ryan]

Lets remember we can't read tone over a message board. What might sound condescending through the board might not be meant that way at all... I know Sam well enough to know that he isn't trying to be top dog here - I'm sure he will admit there is more than one guy on the board with more strip experience than he has, but he just finished a successful trip to the drags and when that happens it's just good manners to report back and tell us how he did it... Take what ya need, throw away what does not apply...

Although it might read like it, there is no ego thing here fellas... Just an attempt to make a valueable post - which this is...

[SamIyam]

jesustapdancin christ! You guys are sensitive!
Just take it as a slug in the arm... that's why I put the smiley face and the "Hahahaha"... you guys are some of my favorite HAMB friends... I just figured I could jab at you a little... but I guess not... I apologize for the "jab"... (I don't see ryan snivling about it... he'll probably just race me when he gets the opportunity.) I also know that Gordini is probably out in his shop right now whipping his HAMB Digger Killer into shape for the next match race...

Maybe instead of thinking my comments are condesending... you should accept the challenge. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif -another smiley, FWIW.

So, apology accepted? Or should I be chicken shit and go earase what I wrote so the candy ass in you all will feel better? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Sam.

[SamIyam]

Yea, I'm sure there are quite a few guys on here that can and will whip up on me at the next HAMB Drags... Ryan for one has more drag racing experience... haven hauled a lot more ass than I have in the quarter mile... Also, the race was mostly for street type cars... I, the red '34, the digger, and the 14 year old kid were the only ones with purpose built cars that have ran the quarter mile before... Both Root's car AND Gordons had never been down the strip before the HAMB Drags... so to compare the two isn't right of me.

I guess what my original idea for this post, was to show you guys that it doesn't take a shit load of money NOR a bunch of experience, nor a bunch of special tools to pull it off... that and I RESENT the fact that people though of me as the high falootin' builder and Gordon as the "under-dog"... If gordon had six months like I did to build a car... I'm sure he would have been the one to take home the polished piston... So again, I didn't mean to sound condecending... just a good natured jab that didn't go as planned.
Sam.
p.s. Hey Ryan, you wanna race? Best two out of three with the RR?

[draggin'GTO]

[ QUOTE ]
I get the feeling a lot of people think that a 10 second car is unobtainium.
If you remember back to the 80's... HRM did a piece called Caddy Hack where they trimmed shit off an old Caddilac until it ran 10's...

[/ QUOTE ]

I remember that article, was a great illustration of power-to-weight. Caddyhack didn't see close to the 10s though, it ran traction-limited 13.50s with nothing left of it but a floorpan/firewall/rollbar on a bare-frame.

Very informative post Sam. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

----- Bart -----

[Roothawg]

I'll accept the apology and the challenge.

[Germ]

SAM,
I love you, you big HOMO,,
Your stuff is GREAT,
and your KNOWLEDGE is TOP RATE,,

you guys need to hang out in this kats garage, and ask him hot rod questions.. every question I have, SAM can answer most of them,,,

But SAM, I was thinking.. JOHN fucking BELUSHI, could RUN the QUARTER in ten seconds flat,,, or wait a second my math is fucked up..

JOHN BELUSHI could DO a "QUARTER of COKE"(tm) in 10 seconds,
BACK to the "CHOPPING" mirror..

XOXOX
germ

[choprods]

I take all the peoples points this post very seriously and after a careful evaluation of all the concerned posts Ive came to a conclusion..........The Car I run next year [57 Rambler Metropolitan]is a little heavier than a proposed T bucket -hauler and will have all the other gears besides LOW GEAR removed from the transmission to get it down to the right power to weight ratio that I need to repeat my STUNNING performance of this years HAMBdrags.30 FOOT TIMES ARE REALLY THE MEASURE OF A FAST CAR....... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif..........SERIOUSLY THO I APPRECIATE THE HELPFUL FRIENDLY ADVICE!Might help some of us first time racers.Kenny

[just steve]

I still love ya, Sammy.

First the Roach Rod, then the BFD . . . you are my frickin' personal hero. And I mean that!

Gets me thinking about this pile of Model A parts I got here. . .

later,
Steve.

[Fat Hack]

I've read and re-read Sam's original post about four times today...and enjoyed it each trip through!

I used to work with a guy who came off to most casual bystanders as arrogant, rude and obnoxious at times...but he knew his shit, and would never hesitate to share his insight and experience with ANYONE who asked! I learned more about 400 small block Chevy engines from him in one Summer than I learned about engines in general over several years!

It was far easier to read his true tone because I was right there with him, and could hear the inflections in his voice and catch the facial expressions that went along with his banter and prattle! If he were to show up here and write posts about building 400s and bad-ass drag cars, you might find his wording to be a bit abrasive, but you'd be missing the bigger picture...the info he is willing to share!

I don't plan on going 10s at the drags....no way an old wagon with a slightly built small block could pull that trick off without a tanker full of nitrous...but I do plan on maximizing what I screw together to gain the most fun...and the best performance from it!

Good post, Sam...let the seeds fall where they may and watch what sprouts! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I've looked at pictures of Root's car a bunch of times and dug it more with each glance...

I thought the posts about the construction, testing and actual running of the cars involved in the challenge at the drags were GREAT...from ALL of you! It's what lit the fire under my ass to build a jalopy wagon to run next year...to join in the fun and have a great time, even if it means putting off progress on my BIGGER project a year or so!

(Although the Vickup engine may yet end up in the Hack Wagon...stranger things have happened...and it'd be a cool way to dial it in and wring it out before it finds it's "real" home!)

Congrats to EVERYONE who participated in this year's HAMB drags...and to those who've shared the photos, stories, jabs, laughter, tech and fun with all of us who didn't make it this time around!

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Ryan]

Race? I don't do best 2 out of 3... I just race. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

That said, I bet the RR and the 38 would be pretty closely matched at Mizzou altitude and if I kept those shitty Hurst tires mounted... With street cars, it's all about hooking up and getting in out of the torque curve as efficiently as possible. I didn't do a very good job at that during the drags and if I remember correctly, you feathered the clutch very nicely with the RR... This one is a toss up...

The smoke show - every hour on the hour...

[Radshit]

I just couldn't pass on the chance to confuse Root with Rashy.............But I'll be there next year, with The HAG.

But I ain't picking no grudge matches.......Hell, I just happy the F-1 made it to MO this year http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif.......

[Tman]

I think Sam and crew threw down and proved their mettle. Good post Sam, very well put

Roots car stole the show from a looks standpoint.

Flesh and crew topped yall with the old school white uniforms.

See yall next year, I talked over my new secret vittles with Zeke last night, better than the pig.

[Rocky]

T-man.......you mean.................................
CHEESE CURDS? You'd be my hero...

[Assdragger]

Oh shit T...What do I have to find now? I`m NOT skinning a opossom! BTW, next time I`m sticking around for the vittles, so there better be plenty! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Zeke]

[ QUOTE ]
T-man.......you mean.................................
CHEESE CURDS? You'd be my hero...

[/ QUOTE ]

We'll see about them too Rocky.

[RACEFAB]

I offered to build germ a kickass SBC, he never took me up on it, was to busy flappin his gums about how the great gordini was gonna rule allmighty, HELLTHUNDER-or some crap like that, i cant figure out how to use this qoute function shit,

any who , i put the bottom end together this weekend on the GERMINATOR, A .060 OVER, 4130 forged H-beam rods, 4130 forged crank, forged TRW pistons, 0 decked the block, and had the "master" balance everything up, an old gent that hangs around the garage walked in tonight and set down a pristine pair of 461 2.02 castings, the ports have never been touched, said " do something with these ". I sent a check off to T-MAN this morning for the hilborn he had in the classified section, as soon as it gets here i will go thru it. so the foundation is there, anybody want to team up and go kick samiyam's ass http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


the GERMINATOR TM being born,

http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/racefab/germinator3.jpg

[metalshapes]

I have been thinking about a HAMB Drag Car too, and this is what I came up with so far . If this is going to happen at all, money will be realy tight so, to start with, A Junkjard engine with some gofaster goodies ,Ditto tranny.Some'50s production car with a roof(No expensive safety suit for NHRA untill you get fast )Car needs to be as small and light as possible, so maybe european ( would that be a problem for the HAMB ? opinions please )An NHRA spec cage , so I can play with it on our Home Track , Ford I Beam and 9"rear with a spool, Ford Buggy springs. The car would sit Tall Gasser Style.
What do you guys think ? Would that work ? I realy dont know, I only had a car on a Dragstrip twice so far .

[av8]

Great post, Sam, and lots of great responses. Here's hoping what the BFD team and Gordon and Root have done will encourage others to get involved in similar projects.

[Germ]

Do I get something for using my NAME?"GERMINATOR"...... I was NEVER saying nothing about GORDO kicking SAMS ass, I was saying that GORDO would FINISH his CAR, and that HE DID,,, I knew he would....

And I never knew you offeed to build me a motor, I could use your guidance, I just never figured I would have the kind of MONEY one would need to have someone build a motor for them,,,

I'm collecting parts now..
Hope it all works out,

I had alot of motors. but always VINTAGE, nothing ever nice,,,

germ

[Crosley]

although completely out of the line up of cars talked about here but,

I had a 69 Camaro that ran mid 10's at 134 mph in 1984. A street car with slicks on it.

The car did not launch well but from the mph I think you wil see that the car would run in the 9's if it hooked up.

the car was in a few mags , on the covers of 2 in 1984...then I found Crosleys and have never been the same since.

[CURIOUS RASH]

[ QUOTE ]
I have to agree with Rashy on this one too. Sounds a bit condescending to all concerned.

[/ QUOTE ] <font color="green"> I thought you were reading my mind, RADSHIT.

I'm afraid that anyone who spent some time in the ROOTHAWG camp and witnessed his double heartache...

That I will NEVER love him the same way he loves me AND that the Fly did not meet HIS expectations...

Would take this post as arrogant and.... well, just downright dickheaded.

The man built that car nearly by himself, in a short period of time.

And it was the baddest looking ride there.

Did he really need a punch in the arm?

I don't think so.


If you could have taken a step back and removed all the "smug", then it would have been an enjoyable post.

My two sense.

RASHY
</font>

[Ryan]

Chill out Rash... It wasn't meant that way.

And why in the hell would root be so upset??? I've been a part of between 5 and 10 first time car outings at the strip and I'd don't think I got a full pass done in 20% of those outings... It's not realistic to expect a car to make a full pass it's first time out - there are just too many variables that you can't control. Test and tune is not failure...

And how did Root fail? He got the award for best car of the event didn't he? That car was gorgeous, perfect, brilliant... I still think about that car when I'm going to sleep. I'm obsessing a little I think... And given another session or two of testing and tuning it will be making full and hairy passes down the 1/4 mile.

[Fat Hack]

A bunch of buddies talked me into driving my old Pontiac to the strip one day...about two hours after it was completed and fired up! I went along, knowing there would be tools, buddies and helping hands if anything went wrong.

The car drove the distance from Detroit to Milan with no worries, but a shift cable problem, minor throttle pedal issues, and the wrong dial-in on the carb prevented any full passes. I made a few runs, then parked the car and watched everyone else. By that weekend, I had everything sorted out.

Roothawg will have his car dialed in and SMOKIN' by the next HAMB drags, for sure!

[plan9]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm obsessing a little I think... And given another session or two of testing and tuning it will be making full and hairy passes down the 1/4 mile

[/ QUOTE ]

i wasnt even there and iam jerking off to all 3 cars on an hourly basis...when shit sucks at work, i look at the three HAMB drag cars...simply orgasmic

so relax, this is a good tech post.. begining to sound like a gay WWF show.

[SamIyam]

Really, I did not mean it to sound that way... and I whole heartedly apologize if any of you all were offended. As far as the "slug in the arm" comment goes... I guess my little group of friends out here have kind of dont' hold back relationship where anything and everything goes... when one of us is feeling a bit down... the others kind of kick them (when they are down) in a loving and joking way... I just felt that we were on that kind of level, and again, sorry if it offended.

So, lets just get back to hot rodding and drag racing... I would be ultra hyped up if someone took the challenge and built something following the formula... if I had the time and a few grand... and the space... I'd begin on yet another Drag car project, this time on the SUPER cheap... but I've already taxed all that I can tax on the one I just did...

Anyone up for building something? I'll help you out in any way I can...
Sam.

[Radshit]

Wait a minute..........I thought the Hokey Ass Digger was on the super cheap............

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


But, I think that all the stocked up folks that left the HAMB drags are already cooking up something for the next meeting.

I could use some help on building my cage for the HAG, I'm waiting on a tubing bender from Irvan Smith now.........

[CURIOUS RASH]

<font color="green">I'm chilled man.

You know Sam and vouch for him by saying that IF you knew him you would know he didn't mean it that way.

I'm saying for those who don't know him, it sounds pretty smug. That's all.

Am I mad at Sam? NO.

Am I in love with ROOT? A little.

Do I think he failed? OH HELL NO!!

He exceeded MY expectations.

Chilled, very chilled.

</font>

[metalshapes]

Sam, How about my plan? I could use some input .

[hotrodladycrusr]

Sam, I could use alittle advice on how to get Big Olds to run alittle faster without spending any/very few dollars. Let me gather my thoughts and I'll post something in a day or two. Everyone can add their 2 cents. Sure wish you lived closer (sigh http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif )

[SamIyam]

Metalshapes... I think you have a great idea... here's what i would hunt down if I was in your local of the country... I'd find either a mid fifties Willys two door car (late 50's?) or a early 60's Studebaker Lark... make sure it is a post model... they're lighter... I'd swap in either an Olds or Buick 455... with a powerglide trans or TH350... hit the swaps up or e-bay for a manifold... find a good used 750 double pumper, go MSD ignition... and a Pwerformer RPM Cam... better yet, buy a Summit brand cam for a fraction of the money... they almost always carry the "house" brand in the more popular grinds... and headers... do some home bowl blending and port matching if you have the time... hone the cylinders with a dingle-berry and slap a Northern Automotive re-ring kit in her... As far as the trans goes... buy a shift kit and put the hairiest option in it...and go with a GER (junk, but cheap) 3500 converter... as far as rear end goes... I'd opt for a Mopar 8 3/4 out of a B Body Mopar... not the one with Keyed axles... (post1964) hit the swap meets and try to find a 3.91:1 posi... this will set you back some coin ($150-$200?) but it'll be worth the extra cash... the Mopar rear end is one of the most overlooked rear ends in hot rodding... they are second only to the 9" Ford in strength... but beat them head and shoulders for price.

Now... if you have to... don't be afraid to shoot a little giggle-gas to the thing... Nitrous kits are cheap... and make a shitload of CHEAP horsepower... just don't buy a used kit unless you inspect the solenoids AND the fittings, jets etc... a tock motor can handle a 125 shot all day long... and 150-175 on a limited time basis...

Tires... swap meet 10" slicks... on slot mags or steel wheels... or anything else in the 8" range... shit, those 8" wagon wheels are dirt cheap... ugly as hell... but cheap...
cage... for this beast... I'd just go buy a couple of sticks of 1 5/8" .120 wall or 1 3/4"... and then find a friend who has a bender... I went to a guy who build race cars to do the cage on the BFD... and he charged me $60 for the first four bends and then another $60 for the entire upper cage (6 bends)... then notch them yourself and weld them in... this is, along with the motor mounts and headers... about the only stuff you will have to fabricate on the project...

Oh, a few more things... gut the shit out of anything that does not make the car go forward and straight... front swap bars are a no-no... rears are fine... put the battery in the trunk, use welding 1/0 cable to re route it... get a moon or MAS tank and run it up front behind the grille... inner fender panels can go if they are not structural... put it on a diet... go fast.

[BIG RIC]

Great post Sam!
I will have a 10sec. car at next years hamb drags, but not exactly to your formula(GREAT FORMULA BTW)

We are building a '55 chevy gasser. Very healthy 482ci., glide, 9" etc. should run 10's down here(sea level) don't know about MoKan. but it will be fun regardless.

I'm allways up for a grudge race,.....anyone?

[12packo94s]

can i bring my nova next year???? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif street driven all steel ( excpet for the hood)/ full interior and it'll go 10.20's all day long
please please

i really wanna go head hunting!!!!!!!!! LOL

don't worry i wouldn't take something that late model anyway but just had to throw it out there

[metalshapes]

Thanks Sam, This could be a lot of fun! ( If I can get it done in time ) Anybody else have any tips for me ?

[SamIyam]

Denise... here are a few things that most people forget to check in the mad dash to make the races...
1. Check to make sure the beast is getting full throttle... sit inside, mash the gas, and have a buddy check the throttle blades (with the engine off http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif )
2. Pump the front tires up to 40psi... and if you have radials... leave the rears at standard pressure (32psi?) Radials cup at low pressure and ride on the side walls... just do a smokey with low pressure and you'll notice black marks that are on the street that are dark on the outside and light on the inside...
With BigOlds... some stickey street tires (BFG Drag Radials) would probably knock about a second of your E.T. ... but if you want to do this on the Cheap... just ROLL on the throttle... if the tires are spinning... you are loosing E.T., Period. Incidentally, your MPH will go up when you spin the rear tires... but ET's go down.
Next up, check out the ignition timing... one big help is to have the advance curve in the dizzy "re-curved" on a street car... depending on your combo... the full advance may not be coming in until the motor is at 2500, 3500, 4000 or maybe even 5000 rpm... also, the down and dirty way of checking the total advance is to just advance it until it pings and then back it off a degree or two... FWIW, the gas you will buy in California is CRAP... your motor will make moer power with better (Av'-gas, race-gas?) gas or octane booster...
Next up is the carburetor... I would start out with the stock jets on a Holly carb and then go up or down depending on altitude... one or two sizes for every 1000foot of elivation should be ok... but a plug read is the only way to get it totally right... Also, if you have a vacume secondary carb... get a spring kit from Summit and install a lighter spring, a lighter spring, a lighter spring ... etc.... until you can feel the secondaries kick in... then, back it off one spring... when you "feel" them kick in... (the "chaaawoooomph" sound) what you are really feeling is a bog...

Anyway, let me know if there is anything else I can help you with... and if all fails... buy the big blue bottle...
Sam.

[Rocky]

My old iron hemi is completely wrong for serious 1/4 mile action and I know it but!.....I always wanted a hemi hot rod and now I have one..I wanna run the hemi motor and play with it in my lightweight car.
The 400 sbc sitting under my desk at work would make a whole lot more sense for a serious drag racy effort but I don't wanna! I've had too many sbc's already. I have all the respect in the world for 'em and some of my best friends run em' but I won't do it this time.
I know I hafta add more weight to support my behemouth hemi and that's gonna hurt my e.t. ...I am running a 1/4" wall front axle to keep the mopar engine off the pavement when I could go with a thin-wall M.A.S. when using a lighter engine too...gotta have the hemi!
I'm gonna have to find some kinda traction aids or something to be competitive with the sbc's next year...I'll have a blast doin it!

[DrJ]

[ QUOTE ]
My old iron hemi is completely wrong for serious 1/4 mile action and I know it but!.....

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not wrong as long as all the weight of it is immediately in front of the rear axle.... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[SamIyam]

Rocky, it's not wrong at all... as your car is not going to be just for the Drags... I gave up the notion of a dual purpose car when I built the BFD... we toyed with the idea of making it street legal... anyway, street cars are one thing... drag cars can be another... (and your van, yet another)...
BTW, i was kinda wondering why you didn't run the Van too! That thing sounded like it had a little Oooomph!
Sam.

[Roothawg]

Ryan, just a little FYI. I appreciate getting picked for the 1st ever Kontinental Kup. Don't think that I am unappreciative, I think it is one of the koolest awards I have ever gotten and it means a lot coming from a guy that is in the nucleus of cool hotrods and kustoms.

I don't want to sound like I am coming off as a whiner, maybe you are right and the internet has no tones. I won't bring it up again. Carry on................

[Ryan]

Awe man, see... I didn't mean it like that at all either. This post sucks.

The whole point to my post was that going fast down the strip wasn't the goal of the drags. To me, the goal was to get together hang out, have fun, and see cool shit. Your car was the coolest thing I saw that weekend and the fact that you worked so hard to get it there meant a lot. I appreciate it and I'm pretty sure that everyone who saw it appreciated it...

I didn't think you were whining at all!

[tucker]

Root- I got to the hotel in Joplin late Friday night and when I saw your car on the trailer under the street light all by itself I couldn't believe it. It was almost like it was sitting there on a pedestal for everyone to admire. I parked a few spots away and stared at it for about a half hour.... I certainly thought it was the coolest car there (except for maybe Radshits http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif).

[Rocky]

Sam.......exactly my thought. My street car will never see 10's and prolly never see 12's either and that's quite alright with me....no unrealistic performance expected here and the van has a new 14-15 second 350 "Goodwrench" crate 350 with a high 9's exhaust system..sounds mean, eh? It works ok for a stock 350, I guess...
Ryan, the goal was to hang with friends and have fun? Well well.....I'm not a loser at all, then. I met those goals even though I narrowly lost to the onslaught of raw, brute power from Tuck's manly Rambler Rocket [TM] against the weak effort of my radiator-bustin, shifter lockin, wheel hoppin, TIRE SMOKIN' NASH!

[Thirdyfivepickup]

Denise, get a posi under the big Olds! It will improve 60' foot times and makes for snappier salt doughnuts! Drivability won't be hurt either.
Hell, lets sneak up on everyone next year. I have a nitrous system just sitting on the shelf...

[hotrodladycrusr]

I think Big Olds needs to make a road trip to Indiana for some supersecret speed trick instalations. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

I do have a quick question regarding those drag radials that Sam mentioned. Can I put them on Big Olds and safely get from Detroit to LA and back? How will they handle in the rain? Should I have them mounted on an extra set of wheels and carry them to LA in the back seat area and put them on when needed?

[DrJ]

This thread has shown very clearly that REAL HOTRODS are trailer queens!

Denise, driving on slicks in rain would be like walking on smooth ice in hard leather sole shoes with the sun shining... Damn near impossible!

I'd put them in the back seat and chain them to the frame with a big lock so they don't disappear while your in the mini-mart paying for gas.

I sure hope everyone I voted for gets to go to the Egorama!
Has it been tallied up yet?

[SamIyam]

The BFG Drag Radials are not your typical drag racing slick with an extra flimsy side (wrinkle) wall... they are a radial tire that is made to run on the street... BUT, they do not work the greatest in water because of their limited tread depth... my advice would be to take them with you, swap them on to do your southern driving on "the event" and then pull them off for the trip home... the tires are TOTALLY streetable... but just do not offer the same wet driving abilities as a normal tire... also, what size tire do you have in the rear?? I'm guessing a 235/70 or a 255/60-15??
Sam.

[12packo94s]

if you talking about swapping tires anyways why not just get et streets... dot legal fairly healthy sidewall, but oh so nice and sticky. Once you talk about swapping tires out at the event you might as well go all the way at that point!!!!!!!!!!

[SamIyam]

In the Ego-Rama there are more things to consider than just the drag race... like the "ride and drive"... the ET Streets would drive like shit... where as the BFG radials would ride nice AND hook up better than the regular radials...
Sam.

[modernbeat]

I've been waiting for Big Ric's car to make it to the front of his schedule. I think that for a bunch of beginners, I'd like to start with a door slammer. Not as fast, but not as squirley either. You've also got more room for upgrades if you find you want to persue it and start racing every Friday evening at the local races (watch out local Cameros!)

I've always been a fan of the Two-Lane Blacktop car, and another one built in the mid-60's for John BIshop by Don Blair of Blair's Speed Shop. HansR&amp;C dug up this cutaway of it the other day. I'd upgrade and add the front half of a cage for safety, but everything else is right on.

[AHotRod]

anything new going on ?




I've been waiting for Big Ric's car to make it to the front of his schedule. I think that for a bunch of beginners, I'd like to start with a door slammer. Not as fast, but not as squirley either. You've also got more room for upgrades if you find you want to persue it and start racing every Friday evening at the local races (watch out local Cameros!)

I've always been a fan of the Two-Lane Blacktop car, and another one built in the mid-60's for John BIshop by Don Blair of Blair's Speed Shop. HansR&amp;C dug up this cutaway of it the other day. I'd upgrade and add the front half of a cage for safety, but everything else is right on.

[plan9]

shit glenn, glad you braught this to the top....

iam on the RIGHT track.

too bad sam will be in the 9's by the time im done.

[AHotRod]

Shit Mike, I just could'nt resist... and I'm sure your Rod will fly !
I guess I just miss some of the 'old HAMB days' .



shit glenn, glad you braught this to the top....

iam on the RIGHT track.

too bad sam will be in the 9's by the time im done.

[plan9]

haha, glenn... i just re-read this post and forgot about the slight drama that occured.

it was fun, wish the 1st hamb drags would have been my target, the memories of it would have had more of an impact... now, ill need to do some crazy shit down the track for any recognition ;)

*butt* i was making next to nothing and had recently moved down to Los Angeles at the time.

we are still towing it out, we are still gonna run it, its still going to get a HEMI later down the road and we are still building it. 2 man crew - a beaner and a fat mongol making history... its gonna be rad.

[HotRodDrummer]

Thanks for making it succinct.
All in all, it's really simple when everything is thought out and in perspective.
r

here is some help with trying to figure out what that word is and it is in proper spelling!!!! WOW :D :eek: confusing word thanks, I just added one more to my vocab :cool:
suc·cinct ( P ) Pronunciation Key (sk-sngkt)
adj. suc·cinct·er, suc·cinct·est
Characterized by clear, precise expression in few words; concise and terse: a succinct reply; a succinct style.
Archaic. Encircled as if by a girdle; girded.


Oh... good thread Sam :cool: :cool:

[Evilfordcoupe™]

Chill out Rash... It wasn't meant that way.

And why in the hell would root be so upset??? I've been a part of between 5 and 10 first time car outings at the strip and I'd don't think I got a full pass done in 20% of those outings... It's not realistic to expect a car to make a full pass it's first time out - there are just too many variables that you can't control. Test and tune is not failure...

And how did Root fail? He got the award for best car of the event didn't he? That car was gorgeous, perfect, brilliant... I still think about that car when I'm going to sleep. I'm obsessing a little I think... And given another session or two of testing and tuning it will be making full and hairy passes down the 1/4 mile.


I would just like to make a pass with my '33. I know the growing pains and they keep paining me. It will happen soon though.

[plan9]

I would just like to make a pass with my '33. I know the growing pains and they keep paining me. It will happen soon though.


what kind of problems are you having right now and what numbers would you like to turn?

[Evilfordcoupe™]

what kind of problems are you having right now and what numbers would you like to turn?

I swapped out the Ansen swing pedals I had in favor of a floor mount brake and am having problems getting the brakes to work, even after bleeding all 4 wheel cylinders. The MC is later Ford style that we never bench bled.

Other than that, the injection is working perfectly!!!!

As for #'s I'd like to run, High 10's to start. I dont feel thats too much to ask for.

[JK]

In a secret shop on the north side of OKC, there is a certain '32 Plymouth being purpose built for the drags that should run in the very low 10's possibly in the 9's. That's all I'm allowed to say.

[plan9]

jason - im a big fan of your coupe, i dont think you will have a problem getting into the 10s... you will probably get a better time slip if you swap he pie crust slicks for some more modern ones.... but to me, that little detail doesnt matter... smoke them down the 1/4 mile!

JK - im shooting for 10s.. mid 10s would be very cool and doable. low 10s would be kickass.

if you guys are shooting for HAMB Drags 06, we should have a grudge match!

[Boones]

Sam, I want 10's in my wagon.............. not some small, can't haul my chairs, ice chest or friends T-bucket..... So how do I get that accomplished.

[RACEFAB]

Sam, I want 10's in my wagon.............. not some small, can't haul my chairs, ice chest or friends T-bucket..... So how do I get that accomplished.




cubic dollars

[Roothawg]

650 cubic inches.;)

[JimC]

650 cubic inches.;)

Chris, you aint got no time to be postin on no message board. You got to be out makin sure the 'Fly flies.:)

Jim

[Tman]

Anyone in attendance at the HAMB drags still think the Purple People Eater would run anything faster than a 14 sec quarter mile?

NO! Cheater slicks suck!:D

I thought it was timely to bring up this post, Ryan, your question hit home..........hard!

[Tman]

NO! Cheater slicks suck!:D

I thought it was timely to bring up this post, Ryan, your question hit home..........hard!

Fuck! I forgot about all the BS on this thread and have since read from Ryans first post down................oh well, drama is part of the history of the HAMB!:p

[SamIyam]

I went back and earased my snide-assed comments... I feel that making those comments was the worst thing I have ever said on the HAMB... and T-boy, goddamnit... ya had to go and drag this shit up... didn't you? :D

Anyway, hopefully guys can, and will read the beginning of the post... and get excited about putting something like this together.

I'm as excited about it as ever... sheesh, I could start a low buck project tomorrow...

Sam.

[Tman]

I went back and earased my snide-assed comments... I feel that making those comments was the worst thing I have ever said on the HAMB... and T-boy, goddamnit... ya had to go and drag this shit up... didn't you? :D

Anyway, hopefully guys can, and will read the beginning of the post... and get excited about putting something like this together.

I'm as excited about it as ever... sheesh, I could start a low buck project tomorrow...

Sam.

Dont gawdamit me! Your the one with the wit that didnt translate on the net!? Would that make you netwitless?:D:p (Note proper use of smart ass comment with disclaimer and smilies?)

Seriously, your fisrt post was real concise and I know it was meant in good faith. You KNOW there is a reason I drug this shit up!;)

[SamIyam]

GROUP HUG?

The internet SUCKS sometimes...

Sam.

[SamIyam]

T-man... check your PM's... THIS is what you should build: (better cage though).
Sam.

[Tman]

T-man... check your PM's... THIS is what you should build: (better cage though).
Sam.

NOt too far off, front tires are too big though!

Will we see a West Coast Contingent in 06?

[porknbeaner]

I get the feeling a lot of people think that a 10 second car is unobtainium.
If you remember back to the 80's... HRM did a piece called Caddy Hack where they trimmed shit off an old Caddilac until it ran 10's...

To pull it off... there are really only three things to consider... weight, horsepower and traction... oh, and the MOST important thing... build it with a bunch of buddies...

When we started the BFD, it was meant to be a free-for-all to drive... but as most of my projects go... we ended up getting into it a little deaper than planned... hence, instead of a 12 second car... we ended up with a fire breathing 10 second car... we owe a lot of that to RACEFAB for building the motor the way he did... when Gordon stepped up to the challenge, RACEFAB also stepped up the set of head on the motor... and we stepped up a few other things... none of which is unobtainium to a group of guys worrking on one of yous' garages...

So last time I laid out a challenge to the HAMB community... that was the beating around the bush way to say "hey guys, lets see how much fun a group of guys can have over the next six months..."

It didn't go over as well as it should have... granted, there was a valant effort on Roothawgs and Gordini's parts... their cars were amazing on two different levels... Gordon's because it was built in three weeks and one day... (I don't think I could come near doing it that fast) and Root's because it was all finished up and about as period correct (stance, paint, etc) as ANYTHING i've seen at the drags in YEARS...

So you guys are probably wondering WTF is Sam doing here? Well, I just want to throw out some tips and tricks for you guys in hopes that the performances will be up for next year... my biggest wish is for a group of you guys to meet in a garage, once a week, pool your cash together (a grand each aught to do it) and build a true ten second screamer for next years' drags...

Step one: I know the sedans and coups are pretty... but there is some merit to a roadster body... more specifically, a FIBERGLASS roadster body... For one, they are CHEAP... the BFD's body was found by my brother out in a field... so we went with it... but if I had it to do over... I'd stick with a cheaper '23 tub and turtle deck... comb your swap meets guys... you should be able to get one for around $100-$200 used... The other merit is that they are light... and semi-stream lined compared to a closed car... I could almost guarantee, the stream-lined savings combined with the weight loss is enough to bump your high 11 second sled WELL into the 10's...

Step 2: The chassis:
Two things, weight distribution and suspension.
I started out with some 2x3 rails... the next Altered I build will be all round tube... why? Well, it is easier to build. First off, buy yourself an NHRA rule book and study the shit out of the funny car chassis specs... there are important bits about ube diameters and wall thicknesses that you will need to know... second, attent a Goodguys or NHRA drag race... this is CRUCIAL to the construction of your car. Take notes on how people mount things, especially the engine, the transmission and the rear end... the front end will be run of the mill, Speedway or MAS stuff... but the rear will either be mounted solid to the chassis or hung with ladder bars. FWIW, either way takes about the same amount of work... with ladder bars, you have the cost of the components... with the solid rear, you have just the cost of some steel plate... either way, it is much-o important to set it up STRAIGHT in the chassis and get the pinion angle set up correctly. Ladder bars you have to take suspension travel into consideration... with a solid rear, you have to take the balance of the vehicle under consideration... the car is either going to spin the tires, pull the front wheels off the ground, dart one way or the other, or bounce down the strip... all of which will have to be tuned with weight, tire pressure or stagger adjusted with the front hair pins. (that's why solid ends on hair pins aren't the ticket) Also, if "tens" are your target E.T... none of these will be so severe that the car is uncontrolable... (if all is set up square).

One of the cool things about this formula (so far) is that a candidate to go fast is really something that can be found at your nearest swap meet... i.e. T-bucket projects!!!
The front end is there... the frame is there... and the body is there! All you have to do is ditch the rear suspension for a more favorable solid mounted rear end and you're DONE! (well, almost)
The cage on your ten second wonder, to make it simple, should be built out of 1 5/8" .120 wall... you can build it to the minimums... but that may only add to the aggrivation of teching the damn thing... More specifically, I would drop the cash and buy all .125 DOM... the Electroweld tubing, even though you may buy .125 or .120... will not pass the .118 minimum for steel tubing in spots near the weld joint... all this is moot until the car runs 9's... but once you run tens for a while... you'll want this thing to run 9's! To close out step two... again, get a rule book and study it until you are blue in the face...

Step 3: Drive train.
This is where things get sticky... I mean, the cheapest way to make hp is through cubic inches... but most of the large cubic inch motors will be kinda big and heavy for an econo altered... if I were going the total junk yard route... I'd opt for a Buick 455... you will need about 400hp or a ton of tourque... the key here is to make the power and get it to the ground... I know smoking the hides is fun... but that does NOTHING for lowering your E.Ts... if you see SMOKE during a run... I can almost guarantee that you can shave a second off of your ET if you get rid of the smoke http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Another thing to consider is peak hp and overall rear end gear ratios (taking in consideration tire diameter). My suggestion is to keep the cam, carb, intake, exhaust on the hairy side of a stock motor... in other words. match all three components and make them as radical as possible with stock compression ratios and port volumes... you can do the home porting job and performance valve job... but save the killer bottom end for the next motor... Also, rear end ratios... if your cam only makes power to 5500rpm... gear the car and select a tire diameter that will hit 130mph in the lights... due to slippage and such, the thing should go at least 120 in the quarter... that is good for mid to high tens. As far as a transmission is concerend... think powerglide! (aluminumcase only) If your car weighs under 2500 pounds...it is a proven fact that it will run quicker ET's with a glide. Now a trans brake is almost a ncessity, as well as a race converter... so if you are going to sink any big bucks into this operation... do it here. The BFD runs in the tens without the trans brake... so if you are on a budget... just get a nice race converter with a stall speed that is about 500rpm past the number where your cam comes in... I tend to think that a looser converter will improve your ET's... but I have no hard fact on this... FWIW, the cam in the give away motor makes power from 2800 to 5800rpm... and we have a 4400-4800 converter.

Next up in the powertrain segment is ignition and ignition timing... Spend the bucks and buy an MSD 6Al box... (about $195) at least it will give you and upper end rev limiter... then if you decide to add a two step rev limiter (about $75) you can, later on. We had one from the get go... but it just aids in a consistant launch RPM (and no need to feather the gas pedal on the line... just stab and go!) Also, the pro-billet )as apposed to anti-billet) distributor is another $200... but well worth the money... you can run a points dizzy... but that is just one more thing to screw with... their coils are also reasonably priced and ready to run... as far as ignition timing goes... make sure your mark is dead nuts (check it with a degree wheel and/or a TDC guage) and set it up taking in consideration your motor's internals (Compression, fuel, cam, and most often forgotten... stroke)... Also, put the LIGHTEST springs available on your advance weights... or, just simply lock the advance curve out with a screw... with a low (relatively) compression ratio and a good spark, staring the thing shouldn't be a problem... the theory here is that you will be launching the thing at a relatively high rpm(3000rpm-4000rpm) and want all the timing in and accounted for... for high compression motors, MSD actually makes a timing retarder that allows you to back the timing off when cranking the motor... useless for what we are doing.

Now as far as tires go... a 10" slick is enough to put it to the ground... if you insist on buying used slicks (like I did) get a pair that has plenty of life, are not cracked and are still kinda soft... don't spend more than about $75 for a set of used drag slicks... and DO NOT, expect to get any kind of reasonable 60 ft E.T. out of a stock car slick, or retro pie crust slick...
as far as fronts are concerned... you do not need any brakes... so spindle mounts are a natural... but they are EXPENSIVE... so a set of aluminum centerlines on some stck hubs are fine... use your judgement here... but don't hang any brakes on the front... you don't need them, period.
(just make sure the rears are new!)
Front end set up... 15-20 degrees caster, 1/16" toe in and go... front tires are CHEAP... just make sure they are skinney.

And my suggestion for a rear end is a 9": ford or an 8 3/4 Mopar... buy a spool, used, they're cheap.
Step 4... safety stuff.
Everybody wants to know what they need to run "X" ET... here's a brake down for a little roadster that runs 10's

Aftermarket rear axles.
Arm Restraints.
Auto Trans reverse lock out.
5 point harness with up to date SFI rating ($100, tops)
Drive shaft loop.
SFI Harmonic balancer.
Snell rated helmet.
Catch can.
Padded roll cage.
SFI 32a/5 fire suit.
Neck collar
tail light.
trans shield.

This stuff is right out of the NHRA rule books quick reference chart... the neck collar is not manditory... but I would strongly suggest it... also, a master electrical cut off is not manditory... but I'd install one for ease of shutting the system down...

Now, as far as steering, seat, belt mounts, battery mount, engine mounts, fuel tank, blah-dee-blah-dee-blah... refer to the rulebook, check out other racers and by all means, if you have a question, feel free to e-mail me and I can send you pics of how I did it...

Keep it light, keep it simple, keep it CHEAP and JUST DO IT!

Any questions?
Sam.
OK Sam
I guess I'm ready to give it a whirl (I was actually shooting a little higher but you just never know).

My biggest problem is a simple fix. I haven't been able to get my hands on an NHRA rule book, not even a loaner.
I'm not really interested in joining the NHRA today, it really adds to the cost of the build and I'm a cheap bastard. Hell, there aint no use lying about it.

OK here's where I hijack the post. If someone has a current or nearly current NHRA rule book that they would donate, sell or loan? On the loan I'd give my solemn to return it in good shape and in short order.

Excellent post friend. I'm thinkin' after mikes pass in the Willys if you were there and not inspired to build a monster you're just dead.

[metalshapes]

PnB, I have a 2000 NHRA Rulebook that I'll send you.

Just send it back when you are done, or hand it to me the next time we see each other...

[plan9]

hey PNB, ive got the 2005 rulebook with some scribbles from SAM on roll cage construction... i can scan that stuff and send it if you like.

the book itself costs $10, and im no NHRA member :D

[plan9]

NOt too far off, front tires are too big though!

Will we see a West Coast Contingent in 06?


yes, you will see the soCal contingent. ;)

[porknbeaner]

hey PNB, ive got the 2005 rulebook with some scribbles from SAM on roll cage construction... i can scan that stuff and send it if you like.

the book itself costs $10, and im no NHRA member :D
When I contacted them hey said I had to be a mamber to get the rule book.
Ten bucks I can swing but not membership and joining.

I'll drop you a note.
benno

[jalopy43]

So right you are Sam! I almost made it with my homemade rail. Best time in the 1/4 11.27@115. A little more cu in's and some fine tuning away from 10's. This was from a solid mounted 9' 4:11's stock stall powerglide,127" w.b. And a fairly warm 283,on gas!! I had about $3000 in the car,and trailer TOTAL!! This was from a lot of help,and donated parts from friends,and as a class project of mine at Simi Adult school (welding cert class),back in 1993. :DSparky

[Tony Bones]

Hey Sam. Can you tell us if you set your motor back at all? I'm not too familiar w/ drag rules, so it may not be allowed. If so though, do you feel there would be a large gain in traction?

[SamIyam]

Yea, the motor is set back a BUNCH from a normal car. There isn't any rules really, when it comes to this type of car... especially when it will be used as a bracket car most the time.


As far as a gain it raction goes... yea, there is a benefit from moving it back.

We put the driver where we wanted him, and then put the motor as far back as possible, while still giving him leg room.

Sam.

[G V Gordon]

500 inch caddys are cool torque monsters too, Hot Rod did a piece a while back using a 500 inch Cad with early heads in a chevette that really scooted.

Anyone who saw "Chicken"'s Yellow T coupe run has to be impressed with those big Caddies torque and power. A tall T is like pushing a sheet of plywood against the wind. That was an impressive little car. A super nice fella too.
George

[chicken]

Anyone who saw "Chicken"'s Yellow T coupe run has to be impressed with those big Caddies torque and power. A tall T is like pushing a sheet of plywood against the wind. That was an impressive little car. A super nice fella too.
George

Thanks for the props GV. When I built the T coupe a year ago last winter,my aim was to build an NHRA-legal car that would run 11's for half price.I wanted Cad power 'cause I just love the power delivery of those engines (nice big flat torque curve).I bought a rule book like some of you suggested,VERY important by the way,and started collecting parts at swap meets,message boards,other racers at the local track,and friends.It took about a year,but slowly the thing came together with many,many hours and lots of planning.I ended up with about $7500 in the whole car ready to race,and that's easily below half of what it would cost if I wasn't such a cheap sob.And as a bonus,it runs low-mid 10's! I had the advice and support of many folks on the 'net and in person....guys like you folks on the HAMB,and that made all the difference.
One very important thing that I really believe in is to use the heaviest-duty parts that Detroit offered in their stock stuff.Like a big-block engine,TH400 trans,9" Ford rear (or 8 3/4 Mopar),plenty of radiator,good brakes,big u-joints. That way things don't break all the time especially if the car is light.(the T weighs 2500# with my 220# butt in it.)Keepin' the RPM down will help it live too.No fun breakin' stuff all the time-it cuts down on BS and beer drinkin' and all the important stuff like buying cool parts and stuff for the next project.
Anyway,I guess what I'm trying to say is that I agree with the basic idea of this thread.....you can go fast safely for (fairly) cheap if you plan it out and have good friends with building skills.(like we all do!)

Chicken (DAMN,I had a blast at the HAMB Drags '05)!!
'26 T/500 Cad/ Best time 10.17 at 132 in good air last spring

[Tman]

Thanks for the props GV. When I built the T coupe a year ago last winter,my aim was to build an NHRA-legal car that would run 11's for half price.I wanted Cad power 'cause I just love the power delivery of those engines (nice big flat torque curve).I bought a rule book like some of you suggested,VERY important by the way,and started collecting parts at swap meets,message boards,other racers at the local track,and friends.It took about a year,but slowly the thing came together with many,many hours and lots of planning.I ended up with about $7500 in the whole car ready to race,and that's easily below half of what it would cost if I wasn't such a cheap sob.And as a bonus,it runs low-mid 10's! I had the advice and support of many folks on the 'net and in person....guys like you folks on the HAMB,and that made all the difference.
One very important thing that I really believe in is to use the heaviest-duty parts that Detroit offered in their stock stuff.Like a big-block engine,TH400 trans,9" Ford rear (or 8 3/4 Mopar),plenty of radiator,good brakes,big u-joints. That way things don't break all the time especially if the car is light.(the T weighs 2500# with my 220# butt in it.)Keepin' the RPM down will help it live too.No fun breakin' stuff all the time-it cuts down on BS and beer drinkin' and all the important stuff like buying cool parts and stuff for the next project.
Anyway,I guess what I'm trying to say is that I agree with the basic idea of this thread.....you can go fast safely for (fairly) cheap if you plan it out and have good friends with building skills.(like we all do!)

Chicken (DAMN,I had a blast at the HAMB Drags '05)!!
'26 T/500 Cad/ Best time 10.17 at 132 in good air last spring

Chicken, your car was inspirational!

[brandokust]

Anyone up my way doing this and need some cash and an extra set of hands