ZERO-RUST DRYING TIME

[praisethelowered]

I hope I am worried for nothing here but my zero-rust is a bit soft after 48 hours. I brought my cab home from the stripper on friday hit everything with wax and grease remover, then let it dry for an hour so it was clean bare metal then sprayed a thin coat of ZR.

First I tried to spray it as-is from the can but I had to thin it with acetone 15% to get it to flow and i wanted to err on the thin side for the first coat anyway because i read the directions and was scared by that "may not dry in your lifetime if applied too thick" part. I even stopped after one coat figuring i could do the second coat next weekend and let the first one set real good. Maybe I'm paranoid but it seems like after 48 hours i shouldn't be able to scrape it off with my fingernail. . . right? or should i just chill out and wait longer?

If I have to strip this stuff again I'm going to be pissed. Did I fuck something up?

[Deyomatic]

I wonder if you thinned it with the wrong stuff. When I used the stuff, I had a couple of aerosol cans and we put it on kind of thick, I thought it was thick anyway. It dried in a few hours and we painted the rest.
Of course, mine doesn't look like it a wonderful job neutralizing anything, so maybe I screwed it up.

[praisethelowered]

Acetone is a recomended thinner in the spec. sheets. I guess i should say it doesn't slide off the metal or anything but light pressure with a fingernail leaves a dent.

Any anecdotal stories would be appreciated. When you used it did it for a hard shell or stay soft for a little while?

[Deyomatic]

I don't really remember it being soft or hard, I suppose if I didn't notice, it must have actually dried like regular paint. That was also the first time I'd painted a car, so maybe my definition of THICK is wrong.

[Noname38]

I was actually told to thin it with 5% xylene(spelling). I've actually applied it with a brush on my floor. And a lil aerosol here n there. I wouldn't say you screwed anything up. Give it another day.

[Jdee]

I thinned mine with 15% lacquer thinner.
And it dried fast , Over night was fine.
When I brushed it on right out of the can thick it took about 2 weeks I think , But did dry ok.
Jdee
http://www.zerorust.com/tech.htm#thinning

[**DONOTDELETE**]

dude, xylene is what is written on my can to thin it with. If it is still soft, it wasnt thinned enough. You may have problems. I put two coats on my 34 in one night. It should dry in a few hours.

[praisethelowered]

Yeah the can says xylene but the spec sheet and website say this:

"Because of its high-solids content, Zero Rust will require thinning for most siphon gun and gravity-feed applications. A reduction of 15-20% with xylene is typical. Recommended thinners are xylene, lacquer thinner, acetone, and acrylic enamel reducer."

I had acetone on hand so I used that. I have no choice but to just give it more time but i'm definitely sweating this one - in my (limited) experience if something doesn't dry within the time it is supposed to then it never seems to. It sounds like xylene works better.

I was hoping someone would tell me that thiers was soft for a few days and then eventually hardened up. Then at least i could stop obsessing on it.

[DrJ]

It probably also says something about 70º or higher too.
In this cold (for us) weather it'll take longer to dry.

I shot some SEM prime once in December and it wasn't kicking. (SEM was basically thinned out bondo. You catylized it with MEKP just like the polyester resin it's made of.) I ended up just mixing up a really hot batch with about 4 times the catylist in it and shot it ove and it kicked the whole thing.

I know this stuff you're using isn't catylized, but it does need some warmth to cook out the solvents I'd think.
Put it inside with a (flameless) heat source. it probably needs to bake?

Have you talked to your supplier?

[Luckypabst]

I leaned up against my old Dodge once, about a month or two after zero-rusting it and left a butt print in the hood. 286merc seemed to think I sprayed it too thick which is extremely possible. Come to think of it with the orange peel look, I probably didn't thin it enough.

Chris

[praisethelowered]

Yeah, Chris. . . that's the story that scares me. No orange peel here so I hope a few more days will do it. Did you strip it and start over? or did it eventually set?

[burger]

I painted my daily driver truck this afternoon with Zero Rust. At first I thinned it out 20% with laquer thinner, but had better results with 30% thinner. Both coats were sprayed in succession, allowing maybe twenty minutes or less in between. About an hour later, it was dry to the touch and it's 45° here.

Now what I want to know is why the paint dried with a "rough" finish as compared to other primers I've sprayed. Where did I mess up? Is that just the nature of the product?



Ed

[67Imp.Wagon]

I used ZR in some rusty areas around my back side windows. I brushed it on. It was still soft after a couple days. I assumed it was too thick and decided that next time I will spray it and do thin coats. Since it was brushed on and thick I tried to sand the edge a little to feather it before priming. It almost seemed to tear away. I ended up scuffing lightly with a scotch pad and then shot DP 90 followed by a fill primer. I was a little concerned but everthing turned out fine. No rust came back and nothing has lifted. Its been well over a year since it was put on.I used mine staight out of the can and wondered if I would have thinned it that maybe the solvent would have helped it dry faster.

[Bigdaddy]

I painted my whole 53 chevy with that stuff and after 2 days in the sun drying and in the booth we laid our the flames and sprayed them and the aero rust crinkled, so who knows what the proper drying time is ???


-Bigdaddy

[Reverendcolin]

I've always used POR-15. Is this stuff better?

[Petejoe]

I used a Zero rust and clear mix on my 37. I also painted it in the middle of winter last year. It took four or five weeks to cure. The reason I know I got antsy and started to assemble my fenders two weeks after painting. They seemed try to touch and pleanty hard until I very lightly ran a tool on the lower surface of my rear fender. Damn impatient fool me. I used laquer thinner to thin this stuff. One year of summer sun and it still looks great.

[burger]

Petejoe-

When I bought the paint from 286Merc, he told me about your clear coat trick. What recipe did you use? What brand clear did you use? I'm also contemplating spraying straight clear over the Zero Rust instead of mixing.

Another part of me says, "stop experimenting you fool and buy real paint if you want gloss."



Ed

[Petejoe]

Here's the recipe. What I liked about this is It's all done with one shot. Worked out fine for me. Heck alot cheaper than a coat of clear over paint. Believe me every place I take this thing I get questions about the paint. I have thrown a coat of wax on it to help with the UV.. although I think the mixed clear is holding up well. I'm not in the hot baking Fla sun mind you but here in Ohio it seems to be holding well. I can tell you that you really need to thin this shit. More even than you think. It comes out thick and will orangepeel if you don't watch your consistancy. I wish mine was mixed alittle thinner. Be careful too you don't spray out too dry...here's this mix. I used a gravity fed with a 40 year old cheapy Craftsman compressor. Worked out good. I did skim coat this and block sand the whole thing prior to Zerorust. Later. If you would like, you can always sand this stuff and throw on a coat of clear which has flattener in it.
3 parts Zero to 1 part PPG Omni AU High solid Urethane Clear number MC161.

[286merc]

Biggest problem Ive found that users do is not read the instructions or ask questions before spraying.

Remember ZR is an industrial product to start with. While acetone is listed, lacquer thinner or xylene is preffered on a car. If it went on too thick it will take acetone a long time to completely evaporate. Something about the very high solids content. If you read the list on a spray can, acetone is the first listed with toulene close behind. The ratios are exact and if you have a spray can apply that dries properly and a spray gun that doesnt then chalk it up to "cockpit error".
Also hardware store acetone is not the same as painting grade; that holds true with laquer thinner also. The hardware store crap of both is only good for cleaning.

Another thing about acetone is that it might react badly if a non compatible top coat is used. Conversely, an uncured ZR topcoated with an acetone based paint will raise havoc in the form of orange peel and even lifting in extreme cases.

A little bit of heat is OK BUT leaving it out in desert sun is a no no as it will then dry too fast. The instructions specifically say "do not bake". The result is a wrinkle finish.
If you can keep it around 70-75 F with a little breeze to help then I would think another day would do it.

Another problem is using the wrong tip in the gun and too much thinning. It sounds like Ed has basically just dusted it on instead of painting. Ive never used ZR with a siphon gun, just HVLP which also pretty much eliminates the dusting effect. I use a $40 gun with a 2.0 tip and a 10-15% thinning; a decent grade of lacquer thinner for frames and inner stuff and xylene for exterior. Again, dont shop at the hardware store.

Fire away with questions, I was away all weekend but should be close to the PC during this week.

[praisethelowered]

Thanks for the reply 286merc. Clearly, you stand behind this product. But you can't help spray it, so all I had was the instructions to go on. I am not scared off from using zero rust yet and I don't want to scare others off. Again, it's not like it's still wet, it just isn't very tough yet and it may be normal for it to take a few days to get there under the conditions i sprayed it in. I was just trying to figure that out by asking for others experiences.

Based on the responses I got to this post it seems like drying time can be a matter of weeks not minutes so I shouldn't get too worked up just yet. I sprayed it really thin (you can see through it in places) and it did go on really nice (no orangepeel) but I think the combination of acetone as a thinner and spraying it at the end of the day just before the temp dropped overnight slowed it down.

I'm in no big hurry anyway, I just started thinking about that "may never dry" story, and got a little freaked out. I do need it to dry eventually and i'm going to put countless hours of work on top of this stuff in building the finish paint job. It was 75 degrees and sunny today (sorry to rub it in, midwesterners) so I am hoping that it set up more while I was at work.

Pilot error or whatever, the instructions say "Recommended thinners are xylene, lacquer thinner, acetone, and acrylic enamel reducer." To add to the confusion the label on the can also says "do not thin" in big letters. I figured that was for the industrial uses and appplied it per the included instructions with 15% acetone -one of the recommended thinners. It seems like we all agree now that laquer thinner or xylene are the real "recommended thinners".

Again, thanks for your help. I'll post to follow up hopefully with good news.

[67Imp.Wagon]

I got a question about mixing the clear with the ZR. Is there an advantage over doing it this way rather than using the clear you can get from ZR for their own product. Does the PPG make it a little more durable as a finish coat over the ZR?

[Machinos]

286, I've been wondering...would it work for me to spray in the wintertime? I can definitely be patient and probably get the garage up to about 40 degrees, maybe 50 or so for shorter periods.

Also, do you have any pics of ZR coats covered with ZR clear? I want shiny paint http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Snake9t9]

It's been a while since I posted last but I still get on and lurk every now and then just to see whats up.
I have a pic, not that great though, that shows my frame with ZR with one coat of the ZR clear on it. hope it's small enough to post... I have had the best results with ZR by just misting it on then letting totally cure before I mist on another coat. I thin it with about 30% laquer thinner.

[burger]

Snake,

Have you tried MORE thinner, like maybe 40% or 50%? The stuff still looked a little thick with 30%.



Ed

[286merc]

Machinos, I wouldnt paint ANYTHING at those temps.

[Snake9t9]

Nope, haven't tried more than 30%. I just started thinning until I could get it to flow well from the gun. I'm in the body work stage of the project right now and will try more thinner next time I shoot.

[50mercfan]

since zr is an industrial product. can regular automotive paints and primers be used on top of it?

[burger]

50mercfan-

According to the literature, high-solids, acetone-free urethanes can be used on top of it. That's not the end of it either -- 286Merc told me that it could be topcoated with any enamel paint once it's cured and you can use body filler right on top of it. On Monday I'll be spraying DupliColor enamel on top of ZeroRust. I'll let you know how it goes.


Ed

[286merc]

Yes to Ed's comments about topcoating. The paint part of ZR is plain old alkyd enamel so no problems with most topcoats. Even acetone based can be used BUT I'd let the ZR cure for a long time, like a year!

And ZR is chemically compatible with Bondo, Evercoat and similar fillers. This makes resurecting old deeply pitted frames, brackets, fenders, sheetmetal, etc, fairly simple.

[praisethelowered]

This old post went all over the place with a lot of good info. But for the archives I want to report that my original coat of zero-rust thinned 20% with acetone is now completely hardened. The stuff does dry eventually, even if you don't apply it under ideal conditions.

Thanks 286merc.

[CharlieLed]

[ QUOTE ]
...I want to report that my original coat of zero-rust thinned 20% with acetone is now completely hardened. The stuff does dry eventually, even if you don't apply it under ideal conditions.

[/ QUOTE ]
So it has been six weeks since your first post, did it take ALL that time to dry? I have some that I am about ready to spray, I'm not in any hurry but six weeks seems a little lengthy...

[praisethelowered]

Pretty much, but if you go back and read the rest of the thread it seems like others have had it go off a lot quicker by using good quality laquer thinner, thinning it up 30%, and spraying in warm conditions. Good luck.

[286merc]

Besides reading the Application Guide, thinning, thin coats, temperature and humidity cant be stressed enough.

When done properly figure on about 10 days max with 3-4 the norm.

So Robert, what is the next step on the truck?