Painters, why won't this work?

[Bugman]

My students have been spraying lacqure on their practice fenders in class. Being students, they're not the best painters yet. They usually get alot of dry spray, and dull spots(yeah, I know lacqure needs to be buffed)cause the thinner I have is a tad fast.

I noticed that the spilled gun cleaner that I have(methanol, N butyl acetate, Acetone, and Toulene) melts the spilled lacqure spots.

So, we tried spraying some gun cleaner on a dried dull panel. It melted, and got nice and glossy, then hardened again. It also helped flake melt into the paint, cause I don't have any clear to use. My question is, why is this not a good idea? There has to be a reason that people don't do it. Does it screw up the adhesion or durability or something?

-Bugman Jeff

[Unkl Ian]

I've heard of people shooting solvent on a fresh paint job to make everything flow out and evenly shiney.I tried it once with 1-Shot,worked great.If you used the wrong solvent,it could reduce the longterm duribility of the finish.

[Tinbender]

What kind of class? Why would you spray gun cleaner on the finish? Why not just get the proper thinner? As far as it "working" or not, your making up your own chemistry, hard to tell what may happen.

[DrJ]

[ QUOTE ]
What kind of class? Why would you spray gun cleaner on the finish? Why not just get the proper thinner? As far as it "working" or not, your making up your own chemistry, hard to tell what may happen.

[/ QUOTE ]

His "gun cleaner" sounds llike cheap lacquer thinner anyway. They just don't name it lacwquer thinner so they don't get in trouble for selling it in states that have banned lacquer.

Do you have a spray booth? particle and vapor masks?are you teaching them bad trucks that might backfire on your employment status?

[hatch]

I agree..why learn bad habits. Just get some proper thinner for the job.....this leaves valuable time to try cutting gas tanks with a torch to see what happens....or maybe hitting the necks of acetyline bottles with a sledge hammer to see how strong they are....which leads to headless mountain climbing on the weekends.

[Bugman]

It's my begining autobody class. I work for a public school, and can't afford the proper solvents. I have to work with what I already have, or can scrounge. Most of my budget went to those Communist Nazi Rat Bastards at Safety Clean, 'cause the guy I replaced signed a contract without reading the fine print.

We sprayed gun cleaner 'cause I wanted to see what would happen. The main ingredients are the same as my lacqure thinner, but the thinner evaporated to quick to flow the paint if you spray straight thinner. In the beginning class, they don't learn any paint mixing. We save that for the second class. I do all the mixing in this one.

-Bugman Jeff

[Bugman]

And safety is always my primary concern. masks and respirators are manditory. I don't want to start on what's happening with my paint booth. When we spray, everyone in the shop gets a respirator, and all my vents are turned on. We have air comming from the hall INTO the shop, so the rest of the school doesn't get fumed.

How'd safety get brought up anyway? I'm talking about softening paint so it lays flatter, and requires less buffing and you make it sound like I'm trying to blow the building up. How is my wondering what will happen with a different solvent a bad practce? I'm not telling the students that that is the way it is done. I am wondering if anyone has tried it before 'cause it makes the paint shine so well.

To teach the class properly, I shouldn'e even use lacquer because it's outdated technology. But I have a ton of it, and it sprays well, especially for someone, like my students, who have never even held a real paint gun. Should I forget it all together, and teach them that rattle can is the only way to do it instead?

[hatch]

It's just that reading the instructions is good...I am religious about that...use gun cleaner for cleaning guns......experimenting is more for science class....in a controlled enviroment.

[Bugman]

I knew it wouldn't burst into flames or something. I knew it would soften the paint. I wanted to try it on a whole panel, not just spilled spots on my paint table to see if it would help the finish at all.

[hatch]

If you have any automotive refinish supplies dealers in the area, hit them up for a donation. Also, see if you can get a name of a manufacturers rep(dupont, ppg, etc) that calls on the area. New products can be had with a little creative talking.... Also a few calls or stops at local bodyshops are a good source of freebies.

A larger successful new car dealership(with bodyshop) sometimes will donate for goodwill in the local area. Schedule a field trip there. Call the local paper for a story on your field trip to the dealership . Show the kids what a hi-tech shop looks like.

Just some ideas that would make it fun if you are short on funding.

[Bugman]

I appreciate the input Hatch. I am already doing just that. You have to if you want to survive in a high school Shop. That's where I got all my lacquer from(30 gallons worth). They really should teach a class on how to hit up people for freebies in college http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[ray]

geez, if nobody experimented we wouldn't even HAVE flake and stuff.

good for bugman for helping his students THINK and TRY things instead of just quoting text.

[modernbeat]

I've heard of re-activating laquer primer and laquer paint by spraying a solvent on it. I think it's pretty risky because you can't control the pigment-binder-evaparator ratios and you might make the already brittle laquer even more brittle, or might make it run, or have thin spots at the edges or crowns.

I'd do everything I could to find the right mix to spray the first time. And anyway, it's laquer! Spray it heavy and sand it all off to build up a few coats. Is't that the way to spray laquer?

[hatch]

I think experimenting is great....but,only if those involved can see the end result.(years later). What may work short term with painting can be disastrous in the long term.(chalking, delamination, etc) In almost 30 years of painting, the long lasting things I have done are the result of reading the labels and following directions.

In the case of gun cleaner as a reactivator, I would just grab a can of retarder or color blender depending on what product I was using....Its been tested and works.

Experimenting with special effects or artistic technique is fine...airbrushing, candies, and flakes. Plenty of satisfaction in that. The end result is immediately seen.

[Tackett]

I'm a former teacher, and I have to add my 2 cents here.

Unless you've been there, you have no idea how public schools work. When I was teaching, my classroom budget was $125 a YEAR. I taught computer classes (in addition to math and Spanish), so that meant *no* software upgrades and *no* hardware upgrades.

$125 would buy floppy disks, printer paper and recycled printer ribbons. Any extras would come out of my pocket, *and* we had to be stingy with printer ribbons. Lose your disk? Buy another.

Why am I telling you this? Because "just go buy the correct chemicals" means "take another pay cut".

I hated having a job where the boss wouldn't give me the tools to get it done. Hated that shit, and I guess it's why I'm not doing it now.

Tackett

[modernbeat]

In the government world when we are given a task to do, and not enough resources to do it with, we create an impact report that notes what parts of the job won't get done, or what deadlines won't get met, or what part of data management or quality assurance won't be completed.

With the right justification, we can usually get the resources we need.

[hatch]

I don't see how teaching is any different from any other way of life....If I need it, and don't have the cash, my passion will prevail. I'll GET it one way or the other...always have, always will.

[burger]

Ease up Hatch. In Bugman's case, PASSION would have to come out of his WALLET or PERSONAL TIME. It's a job. When he leaves the door he's got his own shit to take care of.

[Smokin Joe]

You have no idea what stupidity is till you work with public schools. We were excessing hundreds of computers here at work years ago and a teacher asked me about what it would take to get some of those computers for his school. I figured it wouldn't hurt to ask so I gave him the name of who to call and he went back to his school district. We figured we could put a computer on every desk in the school district if it was handled right.

Are you ready for this...?

His district wound up telling the government that they would be happy to accept the FREE computers with the following provisions.

1: The government was to deliver, set up and install the computers at the schools for no cost.
2: They wanted free internet and LAN hookups to go with the FREE computers.
3: They wanted free computer maintenance, IT support and software.
4: They wanted free training for their teachers and personell to teach computer classes at no cost to the schools.
5: There were other demands but you are probably beginning to get the idea.

Bottom line, since the Government was unable to meet all their demands, they refused to accept the FREE computers.

You can paint lines across the road and cows will think it's a cattle guard and not cross it.
The only thing DUMBER than a cow is a public school administrator!

[hatch]

I could never work for the gov't (city, state or federal)....tried the military and couldn't believe how fucked up it was.....waste and stupidity beyond belief.

[Smokin Joe]

Well, hatch, I tried to squeeze more work outa those tax dollars as stated above, you see how it worked out. The computers wound up being sold as scrap by the pound I think! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[hatch]

I was in charge of a detail in the USAF one time....we had to make all the furniture in four, 160 man, barracks "unservicable" so new furniture could be requisitioned....took about a day with sledgehammers.

If a small portion of the govt waste was stopped, no one would have to pay anything for education....

[DrJ]

[ QUOTE ]
I was in charge of a detail in the USAF one time....we had to make all the furniture in four, 160 man, barracks "unservicable" so new furniture could be requisitioned....took about a day with sledgehammers.

If a small portion of the govt waste was stopped, no one would have to pay anything for education....

[/ QUOTE ]

Government "waste" is the major market for our country's corporate profit margins. Without it they would all just break even, and we can't have that, can we?
We NEED to waste to survive! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[scoop]

Bugman,try to get hold of kroozn he's a PPG rep, I think, maybe he'll help you out!Or Tuck!

[hatch]

Thats what I mean....get networkin!!!!

[Kustm52]

Well, since no one has answered the original question...I'll take a shot at it.

Yes. It will work.

My "secret" to super smooth primer jobs with epoxy primer is this...mix as directed on the first one or two coats, depending on how thick you want it (for example, you plan on blocking the car out later..). Then spray a coat of about 1/3 primer to 2/3 reducer. Then, the final coat spray nearly straight reducer on it, I use the slowest I can get...melts the primer smoooth, and takes care of any dry spots. And several months down the road, when the primer is looking "tired", fill the gun up with slow reducer and shoot the whole car. You odn't even have to tape it up. Instant fresh primer again .... I'm sure there are many reason why not to do this...but it works.

Brian

[Mel]

You guys do realize he's talking about paint gun cleaner, not firearm cleaner, right?

[Unkl Ian]

[ QUOTE ]
....we had to make all the furniture in four, 160 man, barracks "unservicable" so new furniture could be requisitioned....

[/ QUOTE ] The maintainance manger,where I was working, had his guys throwing out a bunch of usable/repairable equipment.Lathe,milling machine,band saw,drill press,etc.Their logic was "If we don't throw it out,we'll never get any new stuff." http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif They never got any new stuff,and none of them work there anymore. Some people are SO Fucked Up.

[praisethelowered]

Since this turned into a school budget debate. . .

Expecting teachers to "get creative" and ask for favors to get supplies is absurd. They should walk into well equipped classrooms (yes paid for by you and me whether they are in our neighborhood or not) and focus on teaching. Teachers supply knowledge - taxpayers are supposded to fund supplies, salaries, and buildings.

[CLSSY56]

Polotics like this really piss me off. Damn, answer the mans question and be done with it. It was the same BS I had to put up with my Flat Black paint job on my 56. He has to deal with what he has and can afford. Not everyone is made of money and can do it right the first time. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif