SOURCE, Timken numbers for 12 spoke spindle mount wheels for Ford spindles?

[SamIyam]

I bought a set of NOS spindle mount wheels from Dave the lurker... got them tonight thanks to voodoo shipping them out from FLA... and sized up the Early Ford (Model A?) bearings I have... and they are a tad too big (maybe .030?) So, does anyone know what bearing and cup ya gotta run on the inner and outer? I know there are for Ford spindles as they are the correct depth and the race size is close to what I had sitting around... also, what seal do you run? These things are CHERRY! They have never had a race pressed into them nor does it look as though tires have ever been mounted to them... they have a nice charcoal finish to them... I'll more than likely have my friend at Supreme Metal Polishing polish the outer lips... he is the guy that used to polish American Racing's wheels back in the 60's and 70's... don't know that I want to maintain a full polish though... pics to come.
Thanks guys!
Sam.

[Roadsters.com]

Wow, are you lucky!

Those are abot thirty years old. It's amazing that they survived the way they did.

For bearings and seals, I'd take a spindle and a wheel to the local Timken bearing dealer.

For dust caps, there must be some OEM parts that would fit.

Dave
http://www.roadsters.com/

[SKR8PN]

Here in Mansfield,we have a place called Bearings Inc.and they have EVERYTHING you could ever want or imagine. Check your local area and see if you got anything like it near you. If not,take a wheel and the bearings size you need to your local NAPA. If that won't fly,E-mail me the bearing diameters and width you need and I will try to locate them here for you.

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Some day,I'm going to wipe that grin off my mother-in-laws face,by telling her what her daughter and I did in high school......

[av8]

Sam . . .
There should be a good bearing house in the Tracy area, what with all the ag activity. We have two heavy hitters in this area, Sebastopol Bearing and Santa Rosa Bearing, and folks in this end of the business invariably come up with the right stuff every time.

FWIW, the wheels do look a little implement-like, don't they? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubb/smilies/images/icons/grin.gif

[This message has been edited by av8 (edited 02-27-2003).]

[hotrodA]

The pair I used to have had regular 40-48 Ford bearings and races and seals. One laborious way is to use the dimension guide that is printed as a supplement to the catalogue. Same way with the seals. It will show the bore size for the race and the corresponding/matched bearing with ID bore size.

[Roothawg]

I am interested also since the ones I just bought are supposeably for Ford spindles.

[MrGasser]

Sam,
Are you SURE, they're Ford and not Anglia? The Ford's bearings are larger than the Anglia's. I've been trying to find out the same thing, but so far, none of my old racing buddies can say for sure.

I just recently scored a pair of NOS 18's with a pair of NOS Avon Speedmaster tires,(about 5 miles from my house), and after some reserch and clues, tracked down the guy in Tn. who bought these originally in 1970! He is sending me a bunch of literature and advertisements that he has collected on 12 spokes over the years, when I get it all, I'll pass it on. He is also sending me a pair of chrome dust caps that have the Ford oval and script on them! He says he doesn't remember what they're for originally.

I've seen pictures and movies with cars with the 15's dating back to '60-'61, but I don't believe the 18's were available 'till late '60's, early '70's. I'll have to wait for all that info to confirm, he says all the bearing part numbers are in there, but I'm sure we'll have to try and cross-reference those now.

The early 15's were called D-300's, and had a rib that was cast onto the back side of each spoke, the later ones didn't have those, I'm not sure when they changed.

Remember my posts about following through on phone numbers and keeping on top of things,...After about 3 years of following through and keeping in touch with this guy, at Autorama this past weekend, I finally got him to agree to sell me a pair of Anglia spindle 15's that he has had for 20 years. They were originally going to go on a Bantam altered, but the car never got finished and got sold, but he kept the wheels for some reason. They are near mint, with tires. He told me I could have them if I would give him,...dig this, $150.00!!

Persistence,(and patience), pays....

[Roothawg]

Mine are the earlier 15's. Mine are also American Racing. Dad was telling me a story about how only the "goldchainers" of the day could afford the Americans ,since they were about 20 bux a wheel higher than Halibrand. That's why Halibrand sold more.

[MrGasser]

Does anyone have a break down on what sizes were available from which manufacturer? Like, did American and Halibrand both offer 15's, 17's, and 18's? I know Crietz had a 16"er...

[BenD]

I too am interested in the bearing/race info for a pair of 15" American 5-spokes for I believe a Ford spindle. If anybody can help I'd appreciate it.

[beatnik]

I'm using a a set of 15" american 12 Spokes for ford spindles. I used the standard 40-48 Ford bearings, got them from Total Performance:

http://www.tperformance.com/street_rod_store/3800/285/

$70 for both sides, inner/outer bearings and seals, but I still haven't found a grease seal to work with the wheels.

If have the part#'s, I'll post them when I get home tonight.

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"Do you consider yourself a disciplined guy? Do you get up every day and `go to work'?" "Well, yeah. I try to get up every day."

[SamIyam]

No offense taken... 'cause I agree with you (even if it was a joke) http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubb/smilies/images/icons/smile.gif
I really think Halibrand always had better styling back in the 60's... Something about those big windows flickering as a car rolled down the track on its way to being push started... ooooyea!

But these will look "ok", I'm almost sure of it! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubb/smilies/images/icons/grin.gif
(Don't mean to sound like I dont' like them... cause I REALLY DO!)
Sam.

[Mart]

Sam, Are those dimensions the sizes of the A bearings or the bores in the wheels that the bearings fit into?
I don't know if those 100E hubs ever reached you, but those bearings are the same as Anglia. (except the bore of the inner)
If you can post the sizes of the bores in the wheels I'll try and use the timken catalogs to match them up.
Mart.

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How to post pics on the H.A.M.B (http://www.kmrhr.freeserve.co.uk/hambpics.htm)

[SamIyam]

They are the exact size of the wheel bores that the bearing races press into.
I haven't got the hubs yet... but they are here in CA at one of Don't friends places... I'll get 'em someday.
Sam.

[Roadsters.com]

Originally posted by MrGasser:
Does anyone have a breakdown on what sizes were available from which manufacturer? Like, did American and Halibrand both offer 15s, 17s, and 18s? I know Crietz had a 16".

American Racing 12-spokes were made in 15 by 3 1/2, 17 by 2 1/2, and 18 by 2 1/2. All of them were magnesium.

It's my understanding that all Halibrand spindle-mounts were 15 by 3 1/2. Like all of the original Halibrand wheels, these also were all magnesium.

There's a page on my Web site that gives a bit of the history of both companies, at
http://www.roadsters.com/wheels/

Dave
http://www.roadsters.com/

[MrGasser]

Thanks Dave, killer site.

[Roothawg]

Dave, the ones I just bought are a 15x4.5" American. Or at least that's what I am told. Is this right? He is supposed to ship them to me Fri. so maybe I will have an answer by Thurs or Fri.

[Mart]

They aint anglia.
just measured the bearings in a stock anglia hub.
2.031" od on the inner, approx 1.65" on the outer.
your bores are bigger.
i'll see if your dims match a bearing tomorrow, the catalogs at at work.
Gotta go. Thursday night is pub night!
Mart.


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How to post pics on the H.A.M.B (http://www.kmrhr.freeserve.co.uk/hambpics.htm)

[SamIyam]

The rims will measure 3.5 or 4.5 depending on how you measure them.

Pub night, now THAT sounds fun...
Sam.

[voodoo]

Sam. So I guess you got them. Thanks for letting me know when they arrived. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubb/smilies/lol.gif Good luck with the racing.

[Roothawg]

I am stoked!!!!!! This will light a fire under my butt and maybe I can make some real headway. Keep this post going at least until I get my wheels. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubb/smilies/images/icons/grin.gif

[SamIyam]

Mine are the 15"ers... and have the D-300 cast into one of the spokes as well as SanFrancisco CA They do not have a rib in the back of the spoke, so I assume they are the later variety...
Anyway, here are the bearing/race specs... Roothawg, if you could compare them to yours, that might confirm what we have... as well as Mr.Gasser, if you can measure your known Anglia wheels, that might give us an idea as to what we have...
Here are the specs: +- .001
Outer bearing: o.d. 1.847 i.d. .750
Inner bearing: o.d. 2.325 i.d. 1.190
Seal o.d. 2.394 i.d. 1.564
thickness of seal area in rim .160

Hope this gives us a better idea as to what we have.
Sam.
p.s. Yes Mike, these are kinda implement looking... and certainly not the best looking drag wheel ever made... but, they fit the car. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubb/smilies/images/icons/smile.gif

[av8]

Jeez, Sam, just pullin' yer chain. I think they're a good-looking and totally correct wheel for your roadster. Is that better? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubb/smilies/images/icons/smile.gif

[Mart]

Sam,
I've looked through the catalog, and there looks like a likely candidate for the outer, but there is nothing that matches the inner exactly, but a couple of possibilities depending on how accurate your measurements are.

Outer:
Cone #05075 or 05075X bore = .75
Cup #05185 od = 1.8504

Inner 1,
Cone # 08118 bore = 1.1875
Cup # 08231 od = 2.3125

Inner 2,
Cone #LM67049A bore = 1.25
Cup #LM67010 od = 2.3280

Hopefully 1 is the correct one, and if rechecked will fit the bore. (although on paper it's 12 thou down)
2 fits the bore size stated, but would require a spacer to up the spindle dia from 1.1875 to 1.25.

I should say the book I have doesn't list every single bearing ever made. for instance, the early ford bearings are not in it, or the ones I recently got for my Bedford van.

The sizes I have for the early ford brgs (measured here)are:

inner:
bore = 1.1875
od = 2.500

outer
bore = .75
od = 1.9375

Don't got no seal books.

Mart.


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Mart's Real Hot Rods (http://www.martsrods.com)
How to post pics on the H.A.M.B (http://www.kmrhr.freeserve.co.uk/hambpics.htm)

[Mart]

bttt.
Sam?

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[MrGasser]

I was reading on another site where it was suggested that ALL spindle mounts were the same, you just had to install the correct bearings and races for whichever spindle you were running,...

...the Ford spindles are larger than Anglia, which means the bearings would be larger, at least the I.D., but could the O.D. of the two bearings be the same?...and there is actually only ONE wheel, which would have meant alot less manufacturing overhead for Halibrand and American.

The guy I bought my 18's from said they were for Ford spindles, they're NOS and have never had races installed, but the original owner, the guy who bought them in 1970, told me they were for Anglia...?
The 15's I just bought were installed on Anglia spindles and still have bearings in them, but they're not in my possesion yet, so I can't compare the two.
Still waiting for all that literature to show up, so I'm still without any solid info from the manufacturers.

...just adding to the confusion.

[MrGasser]

This just in...
Definately, 2 seperate wheels:

Ford O.D. for races: 1.9 -- outer 2.49 -- inner

Anglia O.D. for races: 1.61 --outer 2.04 -- inner


And spindle length is different,(hadn't thought of that).

[Roothawg]

bttt

[AutoReWire]

Oh yeah,

The only thing I found for a seal was a CR number 15557.

1.578 shaft, 2.412 OD, .313 width.

al

[AutoReWire]

Sam,

How was the swap meet?

I show a another number that might work for the Inner Bearing cone LM67044 it's used with the same Cup that Mart shows above LM67010.

I show the same for the Outer Brng set.

Something interesting that I learned while looking through my bearing stock. The LM67010 cup is the same one used on 73-77 G body GM's.

The only other thing that was close on the Outer is a 30204 set Cone ID = .7874 (shim it) Cup OD = 1.8504

Let us know what you learn.

al

[Roothawg]

I got my 12 spokes today!!!!!!!!!!!Wooohoooo!!!!!
Nice, very nice.

Here's a little tidbit for ya.
I took my 36 spindle with the original bearings and kinda fitted it up just for giggles.


It fits perfect. I will take the bearings to a bearing vendor and get the part numbers for you.

[PFF]

A bit of a old thread, but I just sorted bearings for my 12 spokes, I got NTN corp bearings, made in Japan.
The bearing numbers are,
outer 4T-08074
inner 4T-15118
The hub seal is NTK 1493

Hope this helps Pete

[injectedA]

Finally received my other spindle mounts. These are early Ford hub. And they are 100% different than the Anglia hub. Don't have my dials here so I laid a scale across. The Ford hubs are also much longer. Now I gotta reread this post and see what was said. Because I wanna run front disc I may be keeping the Anglia's. Gotta do the homework.

[injectedA]

OK. Guess I have to do the homework on posting pics first.

[injectedA]

Fuck it. Somebody wants the pics of the two hubs, back and front, email, I'll send em.