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View Full Version : Help A FNG Build a HA/GR


Chief_Wannabe
09-18-2009, 09:48 PM
I've been hanging around HAMB and MOKAN the last couple of years and have decided to build an HA/GR. This is not an impulse decision as I've spent quite a bit of time trying to define the car and what I want to build. I have looked at a number of the HA/GRs in person and talked to a few of the owners. I had the plans for a car pretty much lined out, but several conversations recently with people "in the know" have me questioning what really makes a true HA/GR car. I'm not trying to stir the pot or cause a great debate or knock anybody's car, I'm just looking for opinions and sage advice. BTW, I may be new to HAMB, but I've been around hot rods and raising hell for a long, long time.

1.) Engine - Got it covered. Not gonna say because you will laugh. I will say I'll be running the smallest displacement of anyone. It's a pre-62 inline - you'll have to use some imagination after that. My first choice was a Hudson, but there a couple of guys that are talking about running one so I'll step aside on the 308.

2.) Front suspension - Covered.

3.) Transmission - Was planning on running 3-speed Toploader or M-13 out of my GTO. Here is where I question what are true HAMB cars. These boxes are 60s-70s vintage. I see a lot of 60-70-80s truck transmissions and other later stuff. Are these considered in the spirit of "The Bug" ? It seems kind of wrong actually. If a guy was going to use a pre '62 gearbox what would you suggest? It has to be heavy-duty, available and cheap. Sorry, not interested in automatics.

4.) Rear End - Ford 8" seems to be the weapon of choice. Yet, I believe these weren't in production until the mid 60's. I'd like to run a 58-64 BOP big car, but too heavy and too wide. What would be some alternatives to the 8" from the 50s ?

5.) Rear Suspension - My biggest problem area. I need a working suspension because I'll be down on cubes. The single transverse buggy spring doesn't work for me. 4-links and coil-overs seem too modern and nobody seems to like my idea of the early 60s BOP transaxles. Comments?

6.) What's your opinion on vintage vs. reproduction ? I don't want to buy a car from the Speedway catalog. Although there are a few things obviously that are safety related where it should be a new part. On the other hand, if I wanted to spend half my life looking for overpriced, unobtainable parts I'd still be building muscle cars.

Haven't decided on a frame yet, but square tubing just seems too easy. I'm on lookout for the right set of vintage rails. I know the cons of using vintage rails, but sometimes I can be a slow learner.

Input and comments welcome. Thanks for all of your help and I look for to seeing you at the track.

ThingyM
09-18-2009, 11:42 PM
You don't want to hear what California guys would say... "You Got It All" Start building...Nothing wrong with the later trans. And nothing wrong with the 8" Ford. BTW I run a S10 rearend with 4.11 stock... But NO WEED WHACKER MOTORS..hehehe..Have fun with your build..I just about got mine ready for the track.. First Race ..Oct 10th....

moparsled
09-19-2009, 12:41 AM
on the trans- heavy duty, available, cheap, and vintage......the heavy vintage trans choices aren't usually easy to find OR cheap.

As a HA/GR builder who has chosen the vintage route, I can tell you that Lasalles CAN be had reasonably, but not in quantity, and there is NO parts availability.

However, I wouldn't have anything else.

IMO the Ford toploader three speed is the absolute best choice for a HA/GR.

On the rear, vintage choices would include, but not be limited to, the '55-'64 Chevy Hotchkiss, a Ford Banjo, or a bunch of Dana 44 styles.

Your last line in #6 says it--remember that you don't have to go 100% totally vintage- reasonable representation is acceptable.

Old6rodder
09-19-2009, 01:55 AM
"Gears is gears" pretty much covers gearboxes and rear ends. These breakables are very little changed even in today's production front engine cars and trucks. Better synchros are about it and older boxes were made to shift quite fast with a bit of work anyway.
No "failure of spirit" there. :D

The first Bustle Bomb used (swing arm off a banjo I think) IRS and would squat like a cat when the second engine lit. Again, it was around then and while seldom seen at the strips would likely have been tried somewhere. The Bug itself was suspended aft, it came that way.

The whole spirit thing of HA/GR isn't against innovation or creativity, only trying to re-create and enjoy a specific style of racing that faded out awhile back. :cool:

64 DODGE 440
09-19-2009, 01:00 PM
Frame rails are easy to find and for a lower powered rail a Ford T frame will work just fine and they can be found cheap at swap meets. we got ours for $50. Just use your imagination and work with what makes you smile.

Rear suspension ideas are limitless, but the easiest would probably be a cross leaf buggy spring or a pair of quarter elliptics and some radius arms. We went rigid on the mounting for our 8" Ford, just for the simplicity of it and light weight factor.

Small engines can work fine, just remember the basic concept. It is and has always been "pounds per horsepower".:D

Chief_Wannabe
09-19-2009, 04:14 PM
Hey, nobody said anything about being down on power. Seriously tho, I'm thinking about running a set of modified "A" rails but am looking for a phaeton or truck frame I can section and punch a lot of holes in.

Haven't completely given up on the transaxle yet. My interpretation is it's within the rules. If not I've got an 8", just looking for something a little more uncommon. I'm still having trouble with ideas on the rear suspension. Don't like the single transverse buggy. I have toyed with the idea of running 1/4s in the back, too, but not sure how well it will hold up to my little torque monster. 4-Links still seem too easy and too modern.

I see the whole "spirit" thing as being innovative. Look at some of the off the wall and cutting edge combinations guys came up with back in the early days. That's what got me hooked on racing years ago in the first place.