ED ROTH-Which one is the best?........

[Jeff Norwell]

In your opinion.....Which Ed Roth (car kreation) was his finest?..maybe this was asked before....... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[Bumpstick]

HANDS DOWN, <font color="red">BEATNIK BANDIT!!!! </font>

[Dooley]

The Bandit was awesome to look at but I kinda dig the Mysterion.

[BARNETT]

Mysterion. It has 2 FORD motors, for cryin out loud! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[rikaguilera]

I would have to agree with the "Mysterion" as well. The Bandit probably got the most press, but you have to love the dual motors of the mysterion.
Hey, can't you buy a copy of the "Outlaw"?? My uncle was telling me about this the other day. Limited bodies from the orig. molds or something...???

[TWO]

my favorite is the Outlaw. Not the wildest, but I like it best.

[59BuickWagon]

The Outlaw.

And yes you can get a body made from the original molds (you're on your own for the nose thought).

[rikaguilera]

Intresting.. I would only have to build a copy of the outlaw, then build a copy of Dragula from Barris, then I could die happy.....

[fab32]

Have got to go with the BANDIT, my all time favorite ROTH creation. I like almost everything he did and have grown to appreciate his style more the older I get. I guess it has to do with hin being an icon from my generation.

Frank

[delaware george]

i like alot of them...but i'd have to go with the mysterion

[Moriarity]

I would have to vote for the Beatnik Bandit, But the outlaw is right up there too. I did buy one of Jimmy C's bodies and built a clone. here it is.

[safariknut]

But the outlaw is right up there too. I did buy one of Jimmy C's bodies and built a clone. here it is.

[/ QUOTE ]

And a fantastic job it is!If I had my 'druthers I guess I'd go with the Outlaw and then the Surfite.Minis Rule!

[Jeff Norwell]

Yea,,I like the bandit....also dig tweedy pie http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Anderson]

The Druid Princess is pretty cool

[Moriarity]

I guess I am also partial to the Road Agent cuz I own it and restored it. restoring that car inspired me to build the futurian using eds spitball plaster buck method

[Moriarity]

heres the futurian

[Fat Hack]

I like Tweedy Pie the best by far....The Outlaw is a distant second!

[Assdragger]

Mysterion!

[4t64rd]

Bandit

[DrJ]

[ QUOTE ]
heres the futurian

[/ QUOTE ]

Mark, I'm getting red x's instead of pics, all of them... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[Wowcars]

I, Like Moriarity, am partial to Road Agent because Moriarity is a god and let me sit in it. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[beatnik]

Mysterion

[plmczy]

In my horny, ahh I mean honest opinion, the Outlaw is my most Favorite. I still remember the day I first seen the model kit of it. I never did see pics of the full size car till I was older. later plmczy

PS. is the original still around?

[Bigcheese327]

His Model A sedan, if that counts, or maybe Tweedy Pie, but only because those are actually normal looking cars. Show cars just aren't my bag. See my comments on professional drag racing.

[BLAKE]

I've always had a soft spot for Tweedy Pie, but I definitely like the Mega Cycle, too. Also, don't forget the Yellow Fang dragster.

[Tuck]

I dig the road agent too... the PODS and the tinted bubble do it... it most resembles a "car" of the future in my eyes, something you would see on a hollywood set.

operating the top is the best part... fully automatic! Thanks to Mr. Mark for letting me fart inside the bubble at Matt's open house... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[FRITZ]

The beatnik bandit is way cool as is BB2. But I gotta admit I Strted like'ng his New &amp; odd stuff. The kiddie wagons with mini bike motors! V-8 trikes! stealth2000! then again im a weird guy
Hi Mark!
FRITZ

[Rix2Six]

[ QUOTE ]
The Outlaw.

And yes you can get a body made from the original molds (you're on your own for the nose thought).



[/ QUOTE ]

I believe that they're repoping noses now too.

[Rix2Six]

The Bandit first then Tweety Pie followed closely by the Mysterion.

[redmeat]

<font color="red">BOOGER BUGGY ........all the way baby !

R E D M E A T </font>

[greaseball]

The Road Agent is,
BY FAR-
the COOLEST.

In my un-educated opinion,
it seemed to define "what Mr. Roth was about"
Taking something OBSCURE,
and making it COOL as CAKE-

Then probably the ground-breaking "Outlaw"
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[kustombuilder]

it's a toss up between the Beatnik Bandit and the Mysterion but i think if i had to choose i would say MYSTERION!!!

[Skate Fink]

.......the U-Haul truck full of t-shirts and a rolled up sleeping bag he was vending out of and sleeping in at Carlisle the year I got to meet him. THAT was what Ed was all about! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Sailor]

I like them all (the cars that is). Best looking to my eye is the Beatnik Bandit, by I have a soft spot for Orbitron too, as much as Roth disliked it.

[Chopped54]

Faves are:
Beatnik Bandit
Mysterion
Tweedy Pie
Little Jewel
Road Agent

[Smokin Joe]

I have to second the vote for the Yellow Fang. Got to see it run. The show cars are all cool, but remind me of dune buggys. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

From Draglist
http://www.draglist.com/photoimages/POD-0501/The%20Yellow%20Fang%20smokin'%20'em%20off%20at%20L A%20County.%20Photo%20thanks%20to%20Bob%20Plumer.j pg

[Johnny Ace]

KEEEERISTTTTT!
Joe...you got to see YELLOW FANG run? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Who's in it....is the BushMaster the sole driver of YF during his partnership with Ed?
Was an aluminum body considered a standout when they built it?
How unique was YF compared to glas bodies?
I'll put your replies in my memory book....if I don't forget!

[SamIyam]

I'd have to say the Beatnik Bandit...
and second to that would have to be his '64 Savoy super stocker... or his '55 Chevy.
Sam.

[Smokin Joe]

Don't remember all that much about it. I was like 14 or 15 at the time. Built during the streamliner era. 65 or so.
George drove it and Hanna did the body from a clay model I think. I always loved Pagan Gold.
Here's a Steve Reyes pic.
http://www.cruisenewsonline.com/ROT-TopFuelDragstersPart1/Bushmaster.jpg

[truth]

As far as his bikes go - I always thought the mailbox one and the candy wagon trikes were cool....

[gege]

as the story goes ! when i found rotar before i put it back together i also found out i was just days behind getting yellow fang from the same location, big daddy garlits got it, and would not sell it to me because he said his long time buddy connie swingle test drove it so it was close to his heart !!!!, the bushmaster 'george scri http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gifbner' was possibly the only other person to drive it up until garlits restored it. anyway yellow fang is my fav.

[gege]

ps, tom hanna supposedly charged 4000.00 to build the fang body. that was way out there money wise back then.

[wideglide74]

Aside from the obvious choices, Big Ed had a killer looking A tudor in a great shade of green that I've seen a photo of somewhere?

[Leon]

I kinda like BB2 better, but also like what he did with the Berrywagon when he worked at Knotts
Here it is in my back yard

[Leon]

I'll try that once more....

[DrJ]

Road Agent.

Why?

When I first saw it I thought, "What a goofy looking thing! It doesn't look like anything...Not a Hotrod like Outlaw, not a Corvette nosed Custom like Beatnik Bandit. I'm not even sure it looks like a car at all!"
Then I started noticing all the cool ideas in it like the front coil springs that are in tension instead of compression, and the audacity of using that weird boxer flatmotor, and the bubble top with "grooves" in it.
Wow this was original! This is really different! This is making it's own envelope! This is ART!

Yea, I like Beatnik Bandit and Outlaw too...

Never did like anything about the Mysterion except the radiator headlight thingy. The side scoops are just a 62 Corvette side scoop idea turned backwards...I thought the two engines looked too heavy for the skinny tires and swis cheese frame...

ROT(h)AR was fun... and The Surfite looks bitchin whan it's moving.

My favorite trike was Rubber Ducky. Very innovative design and use of weird power again.

????
I have the Roth &amp; Thacker Roth book.... Does the Ganahl book have enough new material in it to warrant the $40 or is it mostly redundant information to what i already have?

[gege]

the "Berry Wagens" plural, correct me if im wrong ! there were two, one a prop the other a wheel standing exhibition thing a ma jig. from pics yours looks like the prop ?

[gege]

If you dont want rehash you need to get doug nasons[from copro/nason gallery fame] , "the art of big daddy roth " its new ground and was done with real research and thought, no mistakes their.you can see it on ebay with green cover that looks like a model kit.you can get it also on their web site on the internet at copro/nason.

[Leon]

You're correct, there are two. Mine is the prop that was in the park. Both were identical in the body, there were a couple differences on the decals on the sides. Not sure what to do with mine.

[Johnny Ace]

George,
That sounds like a GREAT book......wonder what's in it ? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[buzzard]

I would like to take this opportunity to say,
"Moriarity Kicks Ass."

[50 Ford]

I think they all suck, the dragster is pretty cool but a little too flashy for my taste.
I honestly don't see what the big deal was with this guy!

keven

[greaseball]

Keven-
You suck.

[purple]

<font color="purple"> I like the trikes, only cuz I have one. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif I still plan on starting the frame next summer. </font>

[gege]

Ace ! im surprised you do not have that book ! it covers every aspect of roths world , his history-art-decals-t shirts-vehicle designs-vehicles-toys-things. its thick and well researched,lots of color,its a true art book with things never seen before. sounds like a sales pitch ?closest thing to it was the Kustom Kulture book from the laguna art museum show years ago.

[du$ty]

right on 50ford...right on.

[Johnny Ace]

Enough is FUCKING enough.
What's "Right On" about spitting on a dead man?
Fuck it...I guess we're not happy enough with a history of killing presidents,astronauts,and college students....Welcome to Texas....Fuck it....I'm out...Germ- fire up the Caddy, cash your check, turn it all into $1's...

[DrJ]

Kevin,
Do you like or understand the work of any Art/Artists at all?

J. Ace,
It's only two people out of dozens of positive replys, not enough to blow a bubble top over. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Jeff Norwell]

Drj/this kind of goof buys "sofa size" paintings at the local mall.....3 color jobs..black,white and a house brush......
Johnny.....dont sweat it......95% positive on this post. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[BARNETT]

50Ford and Kartbraker...

The post is titled ED ROTH-Which one is the best?........ nobody asked you to reply to the post if you don't actually have a favorite Roth vehicle or even like what he built. By the way...he probably did more in any ONE YEAR of his creative life than both of you two, combined, will do in the REST of your narrow minded, trend following, little lives.

[Jeff Norwell]

YEAAAA!!!!!! BABY!!!!!!! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[67Imp.Wagon]

I like em all, but the Mysterion is my favorite.

[Bruce Lancaster]

Roth's cars are so strange and flashy the works tend not to be noticed--but Roth was highly original, diverse, and eclectic in his machinery. Look underneath--pure early Ford hotrod, Mini-Cooper, motorcycle, FWD setups in back, '49 Olds--I think he was one of the world's most creative mechanical scroungers. I'd love to see a show of just Roth's chassis designs.

[Johnny Ace]

Like Germ says... "Texas is the reason..."



I'm beginning to see now that NOT gathering in Ed's name would be a mistake... It's painfully obvious that is EXACTLY what we need to do on the 5th/6th.



Brush, I know you will be there w/us in spirit... along with kindred spirits like ToyGhoul, Unk, Sk8Fink, ScaryLarry, DrJ, and more.



What bugs the hell out of me are the fellow Texans on this board who haven't even bothered to at least say "Gee, I'd like to go but...". It makes me appreciate all of you who are taking the time and trouble to come support this get together even more.



Dan, thank you for making the point you did... Ed was a great man who's trials and triumphs would make lesser men crumble. He never claimed everything he created was gold... in fact, he was quite adamant about burying the mistake pile and trying newer approaches rather than relying on old tricks and follow-the-leader patterns. In a way, those two posts had a positive effect on Kali and I... it gave us a strong reminder of how much we really miss that crazy old German.



DrJ... thanks for the perspective nudge. It's the whole "red-flag-in-front-of-a-bull" thing.

[mytlo56]

Wagen Meister http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[antichrysler]

I really like the beatnik bandit.

However, those of you that don't appreciate the work of an Ed Roth, show your ignorance. The point of Roth's creations were to stretch the limits of automotive art and function. If you can't respect his work and see that what he did was amazing and will never ever be dublicated. Then I have a few gallons of flat black primer for sale. I'll practically give it to you. This way you can be sure to be boring, and stagnate for the rest of your sad little lives.

If you put yourself into a 1960's frame of mind. Ed Roth was reinventing the hot rod every year. His body of work boogles the mind.

If only the discovery channel existed in 1960 to shamelessly promote Ed, where would Rat Fink be today?

[DrJ]

I look at them more as custom/hotrod oriented "Kinetic Sculpture" more than an attempt at "reinventing the hotrod"
That's a good thing by the way.... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
I see Roth primarily as the artist he was and he was building Art that happened to be functional,(most of them anyway) that looked like a hotrod.
That's why I like the Road Agent the most. It looks the least, or at the tme I saw it when it was new, the least like anything else anyone had ever called a "car", and yet it was.

"If only the discovery channel existed in 1960 to shamelessly promote Ed, where would Rat Fink be today?"

Good question!

[FRITZ]

A discovery channel show, I selfishily wish one would happen.
i also look at the cars as 4 wheel art. working with what ya have, makeing what ya have work and look cool all at the same time, I dont belive there would be a "Freebie" on an Ed show more like a "i found this in the scrap pile"

[Rix2Six]

Regarless if you like Ed's designs or not, you have to admit that he really pushed the envelope with his designs... Even Barris' designs (from the same era) were always based on production vehicles. Ed took it a step further and built stuff that were original. I'll be the 1st to admit that I don't like all of his designs but cars like The Outlaw, Mysterion and the Beatnik Bandit are milestones in the genre... each reaching further than the one that preceded it.

[Friday's Gurl]

**gazing up, in awe*** Mark Moriarity is my hero!

Although I appreciate the craftsmanship it took to make his cars - I just don't like the bubble top look.. I'm probably in the minority in that regard.

I like Tweedy Pie &amp; Little Jewel

Becca

[Moriarity]

awwww shucks becca, you made me blush

[DenisB]

what about his Megacycle to me that is not only a cool concept but functional too

[quickrod]

yellow fang by far for me, i love that ol drag race shit,then probably megacycle then beatnick.honestly if you stop and look at most all of them there seems to be something on each of them that make you say"man whoda thunk it"ya gotta give that man props for his vision and his confidence to say "fuck it im gonna build this"and not care what people thought.always admired that about mr.roth,because there were some cars idid'nt care for but admired for that reason.

[Moldy]

Mazooma finks!!!!

First of all I have to say thank you to the Brush for bringin' this subject up. What a fine tribute to our large father. Everyone on this here thread is an inspiration, except those who don't appreciate the finer things in life.

Johnny... glad to hear you plan to keep the torch burnin' on the 5th and 6th wish I could make it but I figure we'll hook up in Manti in April. While I'm at it I gotta say that this thread needs to be linked to Johnny's thread for his book of great stuff. If ya haven't checked it out here's a link.
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Board=UBB1&amp;Number=185712&amp;fpart=&amp; PHPSESSID=

Ya know the thing that is pretty kewl about Ed's creations is most of the collection is still around and a lot of it can still be seen.

We have ta thank guys like Gege and Mark for takin' good care of this stuff and keepin' track of it.

Rix2Six made a great point. Ed was like no other if ya look at most Ed contemporaries they were takin' vehicles already in production and modifin' the stuff. Ed was a true artist he didn't care of what other folks thought, he built stuff for himself and no one else. If ya look at Barris and some of the other guys. They were buildin' stuff for the Movies and they were producin' the stuff off of other guys concepts. That's not to say that Ed didn't have a little conceptual help from guys like Ed Newton, but most of the time Roth would build the car first he used all of his artistic senses and jumped into the goo with both feet, he felt and sculpted his Creations until he was happy with what he saw. Scratch built from the ground up a true visionary, king of the junk yard where, one mans trash is another mans treasure.

"I build the Car First then make a Drawing, are You Paying Attention Detroit ?" Ed Roth

Note: I'm gonna be throwing some links in my post here, hope that ya all don't mind. Some of ya might bash me for self promotion or whatever. If ya gawt a problem with it keep it to yerself I'm just tryin' to share some information.

Anyway this is a hard one.... hmm which one of Ed's creations was the best? I think I might need to categorize the collection and pick a favorite from each group. I'm gonna try and do this in chronological order.

Conventional non Conventional Hot Rod:
I'd have to pick the Outlaw. This was the car that spawned Ed's ability to sculpt with his hands and familiarized himself with fiberglas in order to express the visions that were in his head. Even though the car was somewhat conventional it still impress the heck out of me this was cutting edge man.

Here's a little background info on the Outlaw.
http://www.ratfink.org/outlaw/index.html

Some of you were wondering about Outlaw Bodies and Nose units. Jimmy C, Ilene, Robert Williams and I gawt together and started producing these kits awhile back.
http://www.kustomart.com/outlaw.html
http://www.ratfink.org/outlawproject

Mark has done a perfect job in recreating his.
Here is a step by step look at how Mark built his Outlaw.
http://www.ratfink.org/outlawproject/marks.html

The kits allow one to either clone an Outlaw or build ones own creation inspired by the Large Father. So far there are 6 units that are being built. I can't wait to see what folks will come up with. Fritz on this thread also has one he's werkin' on and there is one guy who building a kit and calling it the Samurai with a theme to match. It would be great if say 3 years from now if we could get them all together for some type of display.

I'm even doing my own version I start tearing down the engine tomorrow.
http://www.ratfink.org/altlaw


Innovative Design:
The Beatnik Bandit.
This car really shook up the industry as far as Ed's ability to work with fiberglas it really blew some minds.
http://www.ratfink.org/roth/national/bandit01b.gif
The way the car flowed with it's smooth lines sorta looked like sumpthin' from outer space. Ed has always had some fascination with UFO's. I think it stemmed from when he was in the air force the whole Roswell deal was goin' down at that time. Ed always talked about UFO motors and how he really wanted to find one. My favorite thing about the car is the the way you controlled it you didn't drive it you had to pilot the thing. Ed's Bubble top design really started something not only with his own concepts but look how many other designers he influenced. Even today folks are building bubble tops inspired by Roth.
http://www.aeclassic.com/shifters/antiblessing/page4.html
http://www.ratfink.org/vehicles/futurian/index.html
http://www.spritzbyfritz.com/bubmain.html

Artsy Fartzy:
The Druid Princess
I for some reason have always liked the Druid Princess. I think it's because it never got a lot of press and it has always has some kind of mystique about it. Ed toured with the Druid and The Stealth 2000 the year before he passed away. To me the car says California why don't really know. Maybe cuz the car reminds me of the pacific beach some how. I think it may be because the carriage reminds me of the carousel in Santa Monica and the rear fenders remind me of surf boards and the fact that the car was built for a california TV show. There is also pretty interesting story about how Robert Williams came up with the name of the car only in California. Anyway It has always been one of my dreams to see the Druid side by sid with the Munster Coach and the Dragula.
http://www.mrgasser.com/druidprincess.htm
http://www.river-road.net/oldcars/oldcustoms/3.html

Well I got a few more of Ed's creations I'd like to make comments about but Becca and I gotta go out and show her hearse for the first time at this little local cruize in.

You folks have really inspired me today, I usually don't post a whole bunch on this board but if ya don't mind I'd like to continue later on when I get the time.

Thanx,

Tha Moldy One

[Sailor]

Interesting read, Moldy.

I gotta confess I really like the Druid Princess too. Somehow its the only car Roth made that is 100% online with his weirdos and monsters. What I allways wanted to see was Druid Princess the way she might have looked if she became the Adams Family Coach.

Someday I'll paint my take on it... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Jeff Norwell]

Geez.......what a wind bag......... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Johnny Ace]

Moldy...I decided against any books....the thread stays here for all the members to enjoy....not my job to convince the world of anything...maybe with Ryan's okay I'll link it from our site or something....

[Jeff Norwell]

[ QUOTE ]
Geez.......what a wind bag......... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


Moldy...this was a joke....just in case your the soft ,sensitivepudgy,wudgy type http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Sailor]

I thought it was directed at me, -and Im both soft ,sensitivepudgy and wudgy, -and come to think of it, -windy to the extreme.

[39chevy]

I would have to go with Mysterion also

39

[DrJ]

Not trying to bash on anyone here so don't take this question personally or any other wrong way, but I'm curious about what it is about Mysterion that makes people choose it as their favorite. I'm curious for several reasons, one being that those choosing it, for the most part don't say why.
Is it because it "Mysteriously" disappeared?
Is it because of the very radical and at the time new approach front end with the cantilevered headlight pod?
Or is it because of the "awesome factor" of the twin engines?
If the latter, then if Roth had built a car with four engines would that have been way up on the favorite list too?
Bigger and more is always better factor?

Roth figured the covered engine is what made the Orbitron a dud on the show circuit, (how do they figure that anyway, do they do a Neilsen poll on it?) http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif so that would support the "more engine(s) is always better" theory but I think it was the ungainly length of it and the slingshot seating when there was actually room in front of the rear axle for the seats, in otherwords, it was the whole package that was less successful. I loved the red-blue-green lights idea on Orbitron though!

[Jeff Norwell]

[ QUOTE ]
I thought it was directed at me, -and Im both soft ,sensitivepudgy and wudgy, -and come to think of it, -windy to the extreme.

[/ QUOTE ]


Hell no sailor......you were just faster on the draw and yer reply came in front of mine....er...or sump'tin like that.....

[BARNETT]

Here's my reasoning for liking the Mysterion, Dr.J....I dig the cyclop headlight, the bubble top and the "Starliner-like" rear fins and the way they dip down into the concave side panel. I also really like the fact that it is powered by TWO Ford motors...hell, usually people give you a hard enough time for ONE Ford motor! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif I like the aesthetics of the frame, too, even though that was the worst engineered part of the car.

[leadsled1953]

i like the rotar myself.

[Moldy]

The Wind Bag is Back....

I think it's the twin mills that wow's everyone with the Mysterion more power arr.arr.arr.....as I remember folks used to also refer to it as the Cyclops?

The trade mags show the Road Agent on exhibit before the Orbitron there's rumor that says the Orbitron was actually built around the same time as the Road Agent. However it's not quite certain sure which one was finished first. Maybe Mark or Gege can fill us in on that fact.

The Orbitron is another mysterious vehicle. I had a conversation with Ed when we were putting together a list of owners and the whereabouts of the Roth collection. The Orbitron is sorta missing, Ed thought that it might be owned by some recluse and located somewhere in Texas. Think Mark was tryin' to track it down there for awhile. Ed's background electromagnetic energy and his artistic study of color really shined with his RGB light setup. The theory of additive color mixing threw everyone for a loop and kept folks guessing.
http://www.rgbworld.com/color.html


Rear Engine Machines:
The Road Agent. No big motor up front it was all in the rear. This was most likely the car that changed Ed's way of thinkin'. Ed used to give lectures on the efficiency of power ratio to the rear wheels and general fuel consumption of a front engine drive train vs. a rear powered trans axel set up. Was Ed really on to something? After building the Road Agent Ed produced over 20 more vehicles. I believe there were only 2 the Druid Princess and the Beatnik Bandit II (maybe 3 if The Orbitron was finished after the Road Agent) that had an engine in the front. I remember overhearing a comment he made once about the new VW's and how they got it all wrong why change the wheel it was never broke. When Revell first issued The Road Agent I believe it out sold all the other Roth models produced in it's first run. Hmm no big engine up front... To quote Dr. J "It looks the least, or at the time I saw it when it was new, the least like anything else anyone had ever called a "car", and yet it was".

I cut my teeth on VW's and Corvairs when I first started driving cuz they were a dime a dozen and really easy to maintain.

If ya wrecked the thing ya could either go and buy another one or they were real cheep ta fix. And to think I voted for Ralph Nader.

A little off the subject.

Ed built the Road Agent in 1964. Rear engine dragsters really didn't hit the scene until 1971 after that drag racing was never the same. Guys wanted more power; front engine slingshots couldn't take the stress and would do weird things and the engines were so big the drivers couldn't see where they were going. The answer would be to put the engine in the rear it was another "Big Daddy" that brought this concept to fruition.
http://www.wediditforlove.com/sitemap-RED.html

Yellow Fang:

Speakin' of Drag Racin' If it wasn't for Ed's generosity the project would have never happened.
The Bushmaster Remembers.
http://www.ratfink.org/yellow_fang/yellowfang.html


Did Ed design the First Hybrid?:
Pink Bazooka

Ed's trike designs we're pretty awesome, In fact the Ed held one of the only patents out there for the American Beetle.
http://www.aeclassic.com/RothTrikeRevisited/a0001_JPG.html
http://www.aeclassic.com/rothtrikes

Ed trikes were extremely economical, pretty comfortable and most of them hauled butt.

I have three that come to mind the first is the Pink Bazooka.
This vehicle got like no press what so ever. I don't know Ed might have been just messin' around when he designed the thing. He didn't even publicize it that much. Most people thought it was a joke yet here we sit 30 years later and the big three are designing hybrids that use very similar concepts to that of Roth.

This wasn't just some hopped up golf cart it had it all. The Pink Bazooka was solar powered and had a honda 50 or 90 cc motor to power it when the cell petered out. Ed was a true visionary and way ahead of his time.

Gege used to own the Pink Bazooka he's the one that could really fill us in. Got anything ya can tell us?

Moldy

[briggs&strattonChev]

either the Boydster or the Chezoom

kidding of course.....................

[Sailor]

Brush, -I know, I was only kidding.

DrJ: Dont forget the original box art on the Mysterion modelkit. Pretty convincing stuff!

[Johnny Ace]

Awright! Who gave Moldy diet pills again?
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[DrJ]

[ QUOTE ]
...
DrJ: Dont forget the original box art on the Mysterion modelkit. Pretty convincing stuff!

[/ QUOTE ]


Actually I did forget it, or never let it get learned in the first place!
I used to like customizing the model cars, and I spent most of my early teens doing that in the garage (kept my mind off the girls who wouldn't talk to a "nurd" anyway) After buying the Silhouette and the BeatnikBandit and AlaKart and being frustrated by the fact thre was nothing left to do to them in the customizing arena that would make them look better i quit buying models of already customized cars. BB especiallu frustrated me because it didn't look right without the panel painting and the flat decals wouldn't really follow the compund curves of the car so it went into the parts bin.
I have a '65 Corvette with the taillights and nerf bars that were supposed to go on the AlKart which didn't get built either. (That was a double kit then, came with a complete '29 Ford Roadster, so I did build that one.)
I'm not knocking the Mysterion or people who like it best. I just like to know what aspects of designs make people like one design better than another. I see the front end of the BeatnikBandit borrowed from the Corvette XP-700 show car and the side scoops off the '58-'62 Corvette turned backwards on the side of the Mysterion. all of which work for me on both cars, and I have no problem with the borrowing of the designs because that is what we do when we customize...borrow parts and assemble them into a new rolling sculpture.
Barnett , Thanks, Told me the kind of stuff I was looking for!
But then he's an artist, so he understands where I was coming from.

[gege]

pink bazooka ! sad but true it was a idea that was never finished. it looked like it was solar powered but a battery and equipment to modulate the juice was never put in. it had a elec. motor with a gear turning with same chain that went to the honda engine. if it was ever finished you would put trans in neutral and if elec engine got power i quess it would turn the chain. i drove it around with the honda engine only. when checking out every crevice you could see it never had any elec, [solar panel had wires going nowhere],components or battery ever mounted in it. it only had a honda bat. for lights ect. it did not work too good for tight turns or any where near that cause it did not have a differencial it was a big gear and disk brake connected to a bitchin torshion bar suspended ind. swing tube axles.

[gege]

here are some pics of two out of 4 trikes im working on,abandoned hitlers revenge and vitamin e, both have eds bordo fronts, and just semi finished joe barnett touring,thats joe in pic with me.he was number 0 member a founding member of the early times and this was his car from that beginning.

[gege]

here are the rest of the pix

[gege]

to answer some previous posts from people about a t on a model a frame and unsplit wishbones this has both.

[Moldy]

Gege,

I'm really an internal combustion freak nuthin' like a clean window and a full tank of gas but I think it's a
drag about the Pink Bazooka. I really don't think it matters that much weather it was finished or not. The important thing was the concept way ahead of it's time. Ed most likely shelved it cuz he figured no one would be interested in it. Pretty sure that it could easily been finished and the rear end figured out. I saw it a few years back in front of Retro store in North Hollywood. Someone said that it's in Albuquerque in some motorcycle museum these dayz. Is there a chance you can confirm that?

By the way Nice Rides. I love Ed's trikes. When do ya plan on finishin'em up? And what are the other two?

I ended up with the Rubber Ducky (Pink Bazooka) body/plug that has darn near toured the world. Was thinkin'bout a host of alternative motors to put into the thing.

The Rubber Ducky always impressed me, real low to the ground and very economical. Had a concept of getting a Honda 250 4
stroke motor and 4 speed automatic transmissions out of one of them new off road quad deals. Becca's sister brings hers out to our place all the time, they have a hard time gettin' me off it. Them new quads really go and seem to have a lot of head room on the throttle and are very quiet. Someone told me ya can get a six speed for them. It's a pretty compact Package and might fit as is with very little modification. Think it's doable?

Moldy

[gege]

don't know where its at,any big bike engine should be wild , problem is rear axle and chain coupling needs big thoughts so it all fits in the little space and axles go out where cut out is on body.the little honda had a transaxle that tightened up the package. i started one using a harley golf cart engine and rear but it was a two stroke and smoked up a storm,trashed it and kept the pink.one other trike is a vit. e with a automatic, big motor , twisted leg springer that is low and long. it was never finished and abandoned in maywood. i have chassis done and some stuff rechromed but needs body done. the other is the surf angel trike with a auto and porche two seater like globe hopper and bubble wind shields, it is in doug nasons book.the maroon trike in pics may be done in two months,gold flake and blood red t&amp;r. person who sent pm redo it got lost.restoring the touring got me off track. also have ducky,secret weapon,another vit e and asphalt angel bodys for future projects but i will probably be dead before that happens. you can tell which bodys are real and not later repops or close copys some companys made as there are certain irregularities in shape that only eds mold had and they all have the same oddities like one side is diff in the same way on each of them.that match the original mold.:p

[purple]

<font color="purple"> It's my same old pic, have no new one. After our PMs, I'm starting to think I have a Tree Viper, not A Vit "E". </font>

[purple]

<font color="purple"> A really bad pic of the front. </font>

[purple]

<font color="purple"> No on the Tree Viper, I'm gonna get new pics on friday to get a better view of it. Harumph </font>

[mikes51]

[quoteI just like to know what aspects of designs make people like one design better than another.

[/ QUOTE ]

DrJ,
It may be most of us don't know why we like them.

The Mysterion, when viewed from a distance, has the overall proportions of a dual engined dragster. The esthetics of a dragster are hard to beat. Specifically there are three major elements linked together. 1. the massive engine, 2. the body/rear wheel/driver area, and 3.the contrasting thin front end and wheels.

The Outlaw also had those three recognizeable elements.

So I liked the Mysterion and the Outlaw because
1. they fit into my conservative mindset that hotrods had to have the 3 traditional main elements.
2. Within those elements, the sculptural shapes and mechanical details were innovative and well executed.

IMHO the Orbitron might have been less popular because those
three distinct elements of a dragster were hidden by the
body.

[Johnny Ace]

Well said, '51...
I will always love the Mysterion...from the Ivo influence to Watsons' paint to Eds'determination to include that asymmetrical light treatment, it just sits and looks exotic and "tuff" at the same time....
A product of the times and Eds' mindset during that part of his career....
What was the fate of the Candy Wagon?

[Moldy]

Last I heard both the Candy Wagon and The Mail Box are currently owned and on display at Ted's V-Twin in Vails Gate NY.

The previous owner was a guy by the name of Bill Hill. He owned Both The Candy Wagon and the Mail Box. I believe he sold them to Ted's last year.

http://www.aeclassic.com/rothtrikes/candywagon.html

Moldy

[FRITZ]

YUP! Moldy is right! The "Mail box" &amp; the "Candy Wagon" are at Tedd's cycle / V-twin in New York.
If you watch american chopper on Discovery The episode where they build the "cody" bike they go to V-Twin and you get a quick camers pan across the Mail Box.
FRITZ!

[FRITZ]

Just thought of this
GEGE or anyone????
are there any of the trike bodies around????
Like maybe the "asphalt Angel" (californa cruzer) style body
would love to get my mits on one.
FRITZ

[DrJ]

mikes51,
Thanks for the insightful, (and scholarly!) critique of why those cars are successful designs to you.

Made ya think didn't I! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


[ QUOTE ]

It may be most of us don't know why we like them.

The Mysterion, when viewed from a distance, has the overall proportions of a dual engined dragster. The esthetics of a dragster are hard to beat. Specifically there are three major elements linked together. 1. the massive engine, 2. the body/rear wheel/driver area, and 3.the contrasting thin front end and wheels.

The Outlaw also had those three recognizeable elements.

So I liked the Mysterion and the Outlaw because
1. they fit into my conservative mindset that hotrods had to have the 3 traditional main elements.
2. Within those elements, the sculptural shapes and mechanical details were innovative and well executed.

IMHO the Orbitron might have been less popular because those
three distinct elements of a dragster were hidden by the
body.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think also that the "slingshot" seating on the Orbitron was confusling because we wanted to see the engine right in front of the rear wheels and whether it was under a hood or not it was way up just behind the front wheels...In other words, in agreement with your words actually, it didn't fit the overall proportions of the type of dragster that the seating arangement was telling us it wanted to be, whether it had a body or not.
(Didn't Craig Breedlove have a fully enclosed dragster? Oh yea, it didn't look "right" either, did it?)

[Moldy]

American Beetle Bodies will be Jimmy C's next project with Ken Mitchroney and the Estate. Bodies should be available sometime
next year; we'll keep ya posted. I think Ed's kids offer one or two different styles in pooduction now.

[Johnny Ace]

Maybe Jimmy SEE could make glas hippie van bodies and have PIXAR cgi them with graphics? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Friday's Gurl]

Oh no no no!!!! HEARSE bodies please... hippies used to buy old hearses and live in them....

Becca


[ QUOTE ]
Maybe Jimmy SEE could make glas hippie van bodies and have PIXAR cgi them with graphics? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

[DrJ]

[ QUOTE ]
Oh no no no!!!! HEARSE bodies please... hippies used to buy old hearses and live in them....

Becca


[/ QUOTE ]

To me Becca represents what a "real" Hippy was/is/would have been.
She's independent of what "society" says a "Lady" is supposed to think and do. She makes a living doing an "Art Craft" and unless I'm mistaken would deny being or having anything to do with being a "hippy" till hell freezes over.....!
(Only "phony hippies" ever claimed to be or even accepted the label "Hippy".)

Plus she's got a better/newer floor in her Hearse than in the house! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

A Hippy is a mythological beast, invented, born, bred, fed to the mass-media and killed, all by Time Magazine. They never existed in real life.

[gege]

i would watch out making a project of american beetle bodies as there is a police report on that mold being stolen !

[Friday's Gurl]

Right on with the lady comment... seems to me it would be rather dull to be a "lady". http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I ain't no hippy. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif Right on that one too although I think my Dad was a hippy at one time (even though they were mythological beasts, invented, born, bred, fed to the mass-media) - he started out as sort of a 'greaser' looking kid in his late teens/20's

The floor in the hearse - same floor as in my kitchen! That's what gave me the idea... I installed the parquet in the kitchen so I figured how hard could it be to put it in the hearse?

Hey DRJ - you can come to thanksgiving at my house if you haven't anywhere to go.. I made pumpkin cheesecake and it's to DIE for (pun intended).

Becca


[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Oh no no no!!!! HEARSE bodies please... hippies used to buy old hearses and live in them....

Becca


[/ QUOTE ]

To me Becca represents what a "real" Hippy was/is/would have been.
She's independent of what "society" says a "Lady" is supposed to think and do. She makes a living doing an "Art Craft" and unless I'm mistaken would deny being or having anything to do with being a "hippy" till hell freezes over.....!
(Only "phony hippies" ever claimed to be or even accepted the label "Hippy".)

Plus she's got a better/newer floor in her Hearse than in the house! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

A Hippy is a mythological beast, invented, born, bred, fed to the mass-media and killed, all by Time Magazine. They never existed in real life.

[/ QUOTE ]