it won't GO IN,,,,, [Archive]

Hellbound_Hootch

11-02-2003, 11:03 AM

why won't my new fuel PUMP go in???

63 impala,,,327,,,
fuel pump decided to start SPURTING gas all over yesterday,,,
so i picked up a new one,,,took forever,,,
got sidetracked by my POSSE continuously,,,

everything CAME OUT nicely yesterday,,,
but then the DARK and COLD set in,,,so i fgured i could finish this morning,,,

the new PUMP doesn't go in,,,

WHY,,,please tell me,,,
its starting to SNOW,,,

MISS hellbound hootch

Harrison

11-02-2003, 11:05 AM

I'm going to guess the pump rod dropped inside the block.

JH

Hellbound_Hootch

11-02-2003, 11:07 AM

OK,,,
so how do i FIX it???

i am the ORGINAL STUPIDBITCH,,,
so PLEASE explain,,,nice and slow,,,

MISS hootch

11-02-2003, 11:07 AM

Sure you have the right one?

More than likely you do.

Try rolling the engine over a bit and see if you can get the cam's fuel pump eccentric at it's lowest point.
Then you can install the pump and the spring loaded arm will be at it's lowest tension point.

Right now, the fuel pump eccentric is probably sitting on the high point and that's what is making life tough.

McGrath

11-02-2003, 11:12 AM

There is a threaded hole on front of the block, in the area of the Fuel Pump. Pull the short bolt out of it, and find a longer bolt for Temporary use. Push the Fuel Pump Rod up tight to the Cam with your Finger, and tighten that longer bolt down. It Clamps the Rod in Place. Don't tighten too much because it will bend the rod.

After your'e done, pull the long Bolt and put the short one back in. You get a hell of an oil leak if you leave it out.You may still have some spring pressure, but you can usually get it mashed down with one hand, and a bolt started with the other.

Fat Hack

11-02-2003, 11:14 AM

Yep, the fuel pump drive rod is probably in your way or hampering your installation efforts. Stick your finger in there and you should be able to push it back up. You can have someone rotate the engine over by hand (or with the starter if the coil is disconnected) and feel when the drive rod is furthest up into it's travel cycle.

At that point, with your gasket tacked to the pump, you can usually slip it in quickly and get the lever below the pushrod before it drops back down. Slip the pump into place with the lever at the bottom of the hole, angle the pump so that the mounting surface is at about a 45 degree angle to the block mounting surface.

Some "cheats" are to take the plate off and remove the pump drive rod, then coat it with bearing grease and re-install it. The grease will hold it up out of the way long enough for you to get the pump installed and will disolve with the engine oil.

Another 'trick' is to remove the short bolt that is threaded into a hole in the front of the engine. That bolt hole goes into the passage for the drive rod. A longer bolt of the same thread can be installed...JUST TIGHT ENOUGH TO HOLD THE ROD STATIONARY while you install the pump, then the shorter bolt is replaced once more.

I've always been able to get the pump in without these 'cheats' though...but they'll work well if you haven't practiced the 'attack angle' enough to do it quickly!

moondisc

11-02-2003, 11:15 AM

Take the plate off that the fuel pump bolts to.
Pull the pushrod out, coat it with grease, shove it all the way back in. The grease will hold it up in the block.
Put it back togther.
And keep the damn snow over your way. I ain't ready for it yet! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Hellbound_Hootch

11-02-2003, 11:49 AM

ok,,,
so the short bolt won't budge,,
the plate won't come off,,,but i DID manage to lose one of the retaining bolts somewhere in nowhere'sville,,,
and i can't get the push rod to move manually at all,,,

any CHEATS for getting the CHEATS to work???

oh,,,and i forgot to mention that i now have a HUGE oilspill under my car,,,but it doesn't appear to have come from any of the NORMAL HOLES,,,

MISS hootch

McGrath

11-02-2003, 11:51 AM

I know a lot of people use the "Grease" trick, but also heard the grease stays in your Filter. Don't know for sure, but personally I think I would change the Filter shortly after using the Grease method.

Fat Hack

11-02-2003, 11:54 AM

If you have all th bolts out of the plate, stick a prybar or long screwdriver into the hole where the pump lever goes and pop the plate off. Most likely, it's been on there since the engine was new...so it's gonna stick. You'll have to get a new gasket and clean the plate and block mating surfaces real good...as well as straightening the plate if you bend it taking it off.

Did you try applying pressure on the rod with someone else turning the motor over? It should move in it's bore pretty easily.

McGrath

11-02-2003, 11:55 AM

so the short bolt won't budge,,

They are tight for a reason. If you do get it out, it wouldn't be a bad idea to put a little Teflon Tape on it before you re-install it. Try driving a screwdriver in the Crack between the plate and the block, but don't drive it hard enough to bend the plate.

Travis

11-02-2003, 12:14 PM

My 'cheat'...

I get some fishing line... loop it around the fuel pump rod and then string it up someplace else like around the thermostat housing outlet. I do it very snug and then I push the rod up... the snug line holds the rod... when I get the fuel pump in, and it's in but not tight, I cut the fishing line and just pull it out... tighten the fuel pump onto the block and VOILA! Done!

Travis

Deyomatic

11-02-2003, 01:10 PM

Have you tried turning the engine over by hand? I don't think that this was suggested above, but I may have missed it. What is most likely happening is that the fuel pump push rod is at the high spot on the cam lobe. if you turn the engine over, clockwise, by hand, you should be able to reach your finger up the hole and the little push rod SHOULD slide very easily. Then figure out a way to keep it in the UP position while you sneak the new pump in there.

Curly

11-02-2003, 01:25 PM

Get a billet block off plate to cover the old fuel pump hole and get a billet electric fuel pump...oops! my bad, wrong board. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

When you took the old fuel pump off did it seem to have a lot of pressure on the arm? If not I think what happened was that during the night the pushrod slid down. If you can't get it to move back up (Sometimes they need a wiggle as you lift it up) then you , as said before are on the hi spot on the cam lobe. If you think you're "on the lobe" then disconnect the coil and "Bump" (Don't Crank) the motor with the key switch. I've used the grease method to hold it in place and works fine for me. 2 bolts hold the Fuel pump on and 2 more bolts hold the plate on. I'v had a couple that played hard w/me and I've had to pop the plate of too.Good luck. By the way did you compare the arm length and anle on the new pump to the old pump?

Curly

11-02-2003, 01:28 PM

It's snowing in Hell? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif Looks like I'm gonna get lucky with that hot chick back in high school http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif...if only I could remember her name now! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

I can never get the short bolt out either.

Hellbound_Hootch

11-02-2003, 01:42 PM

ok,,,here goes,,,

PART 1,,,
got the new pump on,,,
found a way to get the ROD UP using my hands,,,
kept it up while i got the PUMP on,,,
however,,,only can get one of the plate retaining bolts on,,,still can't fid the other one and the replacement i found won't go in,,,
how CRUCIAL is it to get the other bolt in???
i can take the one off and try to find its MATE at the hardware store if needed,,

PART 2,,,

now the metal tube piece that goes to the carb,,,i know i don't know proper terms here,,,,
and is SUPPOSED to attach at the bottom of the pump,,,
doesn't quite reach,,,

should i take it off and attempt to bend it???
its about a half inch off,,,
or do i need a replacement,,,

MISS hootch

Curly

11-02-2003, 02:02 PM

Part 1:
It is crucial to get both bolts in. They can be a real pain in the ass now that the rod is putting pressure on the arm. It HAS to be IN. Careful not to cross thread.

Part 2:
It is ok to tweak a line to get it to fit . Don't grab it and bend like as if it was a steel rod cuz you may end up kinking the thing. The key to tweaking it is to make sure that the tube lines up with the pump fitting before you start threading line onto the pump fitting. Sometimes the fitting on the pump can be tightened to help line thngs up a little bit better.
Hope this helps!

Deyomatic

11-02-2003, 02:04 PM

Can you rob any fittings off of the old pump? Do the nozzles of the new pump point the same direction as the ones did on the old one? What brand of pump, I guess is what I should ask? Does your new pump have ANY fittings on it? Or does it just have threaded holes for fittings? If you have tubes coming off of the new one, you should be able to use a 3/8" section of rubber fuel HOSE with some hose clamps. You'll need to cut the fuel pump side fitting off of the old tube, then just clamp to that. Keep the rubber piece away from anything that could cut or melt it. Use tie wire or tie wraps to fasten it out of the way.
You SHOULD cut this metal fuel line with a tubing cutter, so you don't compress the tube. I suppose if you had a hack saw and were careful you could do it. You will obviously need to remove this from the carb to use a hack saw. Just make sure there aren't any shards of metal left in the way that could mess up your carb.

You do need that other bolt, there is oil in that little housing and I think you'd have a hell of a leak if you didn't use all the bolts. When you go to the hardware store for the bolt, pick up a tubing cutter, tell them 3/8" is what you will be cutting, so they don't give you the BIG one.

Curly

11-02-2003, 02:05 PM

After a re-read you said it was off by 1/2 inch...up and down (Carb to oil pan) or left to right (Drivers side to passenger side)?

Hellbound_Hootch

11-02-2003, 02:24 PM

ok,, the new pump is a MASTER from proshopp (carquest wholesale),,
the fittings look the same,,,the pump just seems to sit about a half inch LOWER,,,

i tried to take off the line at the carb to see if i could hand shape it a little better,,,but the line twisted instead,,,
so now i think my line is fucked too,,,

other than telling me NOT to touch my car,,,any more ideas???

if i go to the shop open today (checkers) will the dumbasses working there know what i'm talking about???
they didn't know about the fule pump plate gasket an hour ago,,,
(which of course i didn't end up needed,,,but got me a speeding ticket,,,i managed to NOT get the no insurance ticket somehow,,,)

or should i wait and call PROSHOP tomorrow???
i need to get this fixed soon,,,i'm sposed to get snow and freezing rain tomorrow,,,no garage,,,
and i know i need to change my oil after i get this pump fixed,,,

MISS hootch

Curly

11-02-2003, 02:44 PM

Cut the place that was twisted and get some rubber hose an two clamps to replace the area you cut out + the 1/2" you need. Install it and make sure that nothing will rub against/through the hose. When you cut the hose make sure that no metal shavings are inside the tube cuz that will Fuck up your carb. Tighten the rubber hose and the clamps TIGHT. after ya start the car up check for leaks. Let the engine get warm. This will help when its time to drain the oil, give you some place to rest your hands when they get cold, and while all things are nice and warm tighten those clamps on your new fuel line again.

Safety 1st:
1 Leaky fuel lines can lead to engine fires
2 Cold weather and rubber and cold hands make it difficult to get hose clamps tight enough.
3. Hypothermia sets in fast and at first frostbite does not hurt...no matter how cool it is that the 1/2 wrench is sticking to your hands.
4 . Snow and driveways w/o garages suck! Feeling for ya!

Deyomatic

11-02-2003, 03:49 PM

Did you get the bolt and tubing cutter? Do that shit before the hardware store closes. Like curly said, just transplant a chunk of rubber hose in there.

Hellbound_Hootch

11-02-2003, 03:59 PM

i went to get the tubing cutter and hose,,,
my credit card was denied,,,

i'm fucked,,,

its gonna sit in the street for a while,,,,

thanks for the help anyways,,,

hootch

Rocky

11-02-2003, 10:50 PM

If I lived closer, I'd help ya, Hootch. I feel for ya. Surely there's some HAMBer living in the Minneapolis/ St Paul area that'd give a pretty girl some help here...

Junkyard Dog 32

11-02-2003, 11:17 PM

MISS HOOTCH... If you go to a decent parts place, to get the hose and some clamps... shouldn't be more than $4-$5, and if you wear those hot pink HOT PANTS you had on at BTT50s, they'll let you borrow a tubing cutter. I borrow tools from parts stores, and I don't even own any hot pink HOT PANTS.
You DON'T wanna cut it with a hacksaw, as you'll end up with shit in your carb... which is bad.
If you can't get a cutter, e-mail me, and I'll mail ya mine. You can just give it back when you take me out to dinner. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif For that matter, I could just send along the hose and the clamps too, if you want. I keep a few sizes around.

A good trick when putting a clamped hose onto a metal line, is to take the tubing cutter, and score a few grooves around the end of the metal line, this will give the rubber something to grab into, and you won't have to worry about pressure blowing it off after you clamp it.

Lemme know if I can help.

JOEhttp://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif