Golf balls at Bonneville ?

[Unkl Ian]

Everyone knows that the little dimples in a Golf ball reduce drag,so the ball will travel further.Has anyone seen this applied to a car at Bonneville?I'm sure when you get going real fast,the air reacts differently.But for those under,let's say 200 mph,why wouldn't this work?

[Tony]

Unkl,
Only you would think of that! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

actually..thats a very interesting question..

Rat..

[Unkl Ian]

[ QUOTE ]
Only you would think of that!

[/ QUOTE ] Thought of that at the Dentist today.

[Roothawg]

I think that has been talked about....on the HAMB, where else?

[Reverendcolin]

Very interesting, I think we need physics major for this one

[Tony]

[ QUOTE ]
Thought of that at the Dentist today.


[/ QUOTE ]

What type of gas were they givin ya?
I gotta dentist appt soon and want some too!

Rat..

[Bob K]

Hell, My body work already looks like that. Maybe I could go fast at B'ville.

B http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif B

[Tman]

If you watched the Tour de France, the Limar company from Europe outfitted several pro teams using this feature on Aero helmets used in the time trials.

[fordiac]

you gotta remember that a golf ball is also spinning alot when it is flying down the fairway.

I thought i heard that the dimples were for the air to be "scooped" from the front of the ball around to the back or wherever. Also, that it adds to the stability when this happens

[Unkl Ian]

[ QUOTE ]
What type of gas were they givin ya?

[/ QUOTE ] Unleaded.

[buzzard]

fordiac is right. The dimple design has more to do with spin and the fact that the ball is round. It is more about breaking the wind in front of the round ball.

More likely to have use for the VW guys. The straight, slick sides of a lakes or drag car drag less than dimples.

[Unkl Ian]

From sciencenetlinks.com [ QUOTE ]


Golf Ball Dimples


We asked aerospace engineer Bob Thurman. He designs golf balls for Wilson Sporting Goods in Humboldt, Tennessee.

Thurman:
The dimples are there to reduce the aerodynamic drag, that would be acting on the ball if it were entirely smooth.

He explains that when a smooth ball sails through the air, it leaves a big pocket of low-pressure air in its wake. That creates drag, which slows it down.

Thurman:
So if you can make that wake smaller, then the pressure differential goes down. So the drag force is actually reduced.

The dimples do this by creating turbulence in the air around the ball. That forces the air to hug the ball more closely. So instead of flowing past it, the air follows the curvature of the ball around to the back. The result is a smaller wake, and less drag.


[/ QUOTE ] Since the boundry layer is moving slower than vehicle speed,I'm thinking that surfsce friction is less important than reducing trailing vortexes. The pictures a couple days ago of the sand coated bowling ball experiment seem to support this.

[modernbeat]

Actually, the louvers on the back of a roadster, or the little triangle shaped splitters on the trailing edge of the lakesters and streamlines create a low drag turbulance to lower the drag on the car.

[Junkyard Dog 32]

Something that Thurman didn't mention, is LIFT.

If you look at how an airplane wing works, you have a high and low pressure differential, drag... etc.
The air going over the top of the wing creates a lower pressure, as it passes, and actually lifts the wing. The air under the wing doesn't support it, like a surfboard on water.
I think even a small bit of lift on a car at 200-300 mph would be a bad thing. Lift would create instability, by taking weight off the tires, and even the slightest cross wind would move it off it's course. For example... roll a penny across the floor, and blow it from the side. It'll move off of it's path pretty easily. Now try the same with a bowling ball. So, unless you're driving perfectly straight into the wind, you'd be asking for trouble by reducing the weight put to the ground.
If you dimpled the whole car, the pressure differential might change from side to side, and pull you off course. I don't know how much would be too much, but I think I'd want a little downforce instead.
I'm sure there's alot more to it than this, like the fact that cars are long and thin, as opposed to being round... and blah blah blah, so drag can be reduced by aerodynamics, rather than lift.

Maybe I picked a bad day to quit sniffing glue.

JOEhttp://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[DrJ]

[ QUOTE ]
Something that Thurman didn't mention, is LIFT.

If you look at how an airplane wing works, you have a high and low pressure differential, drag... etc.
The air going over the top of the wing creates a lower pressure, as it passes, and actually lifts the wing. The air under the wing doesn't support it, like a surfboard on water.


[/ QUOTE ]

Yes it does, if you want to look at it that way.
I know it's commonly called LIFT but I prefer to think that if I have a low pressure on one side of a "plane" and high pressure on the other, the high pressure is going to try to overcome the low pressure by pushing the plane toward the low pressure, In the case of an airplane wing, that's usually up. In the case of a F1 race car front and rear inverted wings, it's down.
If a low pressure "sucked" things into the air all we would have to do is toss our trash into the air and it would be sucked into outer space by the vaccuum of space.
You have a low pressure on top of the airfoil and a relatively lower pressure on the bottom. look at it as the same as holding a piece of paper in front of your shop air hose and blasting one side of it...the low pressure side didn't "suck" the piece of paper across the garage, did it?
A venturi in a carburetor is a type of "airfoil" rolled up into a tubular shape. It works by lowering the air pressure inside the venturi relative to the outside air and then the higher air pressure on the surface of the gas in the float bowl pushes the gas to the lower pressure void area in the venturi. If the venturi was "sucking" the gas then it wouldn't be affected by altitude changes. Altitude lowers the air pressure on the gas in the float bowl, so it doesn't push the gas with as much pressure, so you run lean.

Then there's all the exceptions to all the theories...
read some of them here. http://science.howstuffworks.com/airplane2.htm

I look at belly tanks and I see what amounts to a wingless lifting body.
They have always been hard to push really fast, probably because they loose traction. Maybe if they were just the bottom half of the tank and flat on top they would work like an inverted airfoil and have increased downforce at speed instead of decreased.

I'm not much of a golfer (only played twice) but I bet the amount the ball spins depends on which iron is used and a flat #1 driver isn't going to spin it if you hit it square, I wouldn't think anyway....

Was that enough Midnight Rambler?

[littledeucecoupe427]

When is Bonneville this comming year?

[Bob K]

B'ville is August 14th thru the 20th.

B http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif B

[Kevin Lee]

I brought up the dimples before. And I think it was on the louver thread. What I remember being said was that it takes different sized dimples to react properly to a given speed or something odd like that. The thought came from something I heard years ago somewhere about major league baseball experimenting with dimpled bats to increase bat speed - but ball sports don't really interest me at all so who cares.

After seeing the pictures of the bowling ball with sand glued experiment I thought for moment what a surface like that would do to airflow. Rust and mild pitting may not be such a bad thing. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[C9]

[ QUOTE ]
The air under the wing doesn't support it, like a surfboard on water.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was going to jump in here, but the good Doctor covered it quite well.

Couple of other things you can think about, there are airfoils - the shape of the wing when viewed from the end or put another way, viewing the chord shape - that are symmetrical.
Used on aerobatic aircraft although most of those aren't completely symmetrical.
The symmetrical airfoils also used on model aircraft that compete in the stunt classification.
What makes the symmetrical wing generate lift is the angle of attack.
Lift is generated on the bottom part of the wing as well as a percentage of lift is generated on top of the wing.
Airfoils are usually chosen for the speed range they will operate in which explains the undercambered wing of the sailplanes and the flat bottomed wing of most other aircraft.

You can do a small experiment that will show the validity of the angle of attack theory.
Hold your hand out of the window of a car rolling along at highway speed.
First, in a neutral position.
Then turn it slightly upward so the palm is exposed to the oncoming airflow.
The most amount of force you will feel will be on the palm side as that's were the most amount of lift is generated.

You can duplicate the stall characteristics of a wing somewhat by turning your hand upward to the point where it no longer cuts through the air generating lift, but the air grabs it and tries to push it back.
Not quite the classic example of stall, but you can see that lift per se is no longer generated.
For aircraft, the stall point of most wings is right around the 16 degree mark.


A sailboats sails are airfoils as well.
They generate force vectors on the windward side and lift is generated on the lee side.
The trick with the sailboat is to have more force vectors generated in a forward direction than to the rear.
Assuming we are beating to windward and not running before the wind.
All a sailboat sail is -in most cases - is a severely undercambered low speed wing.

Far as golf balls go, I'll go along with the wake minimalization generated by the dimples and add that somewhere along the line I read that a golf ball comes off the club face of a driver - wielded by a player that can knock drives out there about 250 yards or so - at 250 mph.

Your distance may vary....

[modernbeat]

There are quite a few reports about early aerodynamics and some flow interuption experiments, as well as the reports on the original experiments that led to the NACA duct on the National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics (NACA) server. This is what eventually became NASA.

http://naca.larc.nasa.gov/

[SamIyam]

Why would anyone want a car that would slice to the right? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Sam.

[ray]

in the early 70's i think, there was some experimentation of using vinyl roofs on nascar cars. don't remember how the theory actually played out, but they apparantly failed to consider how to keep the vinyl stuck on at high speeds.

[C9]

[ QUOTE ]
Why would anyone want a car that would slice to the right?


[/ QUOTE ]

Then again, if it was a hooker it might be fun.

[Unkl Ian]

[ QUOTE ]
I look at belly tanks and I see what amounts to a wingless lifting body.
They have always been hard to push really fast, probably because they loose traction. Maybe if they were just the bottom half of the tank and flat on top they would work like an inverted airfoil and have increased downforce at speed instead of decreased.



[/ QUOTE ] Another part of the problem is the large amount of drag caused by the exposed wheels,and how the wake off the wheels reacts with the air on the body. Small amounts of down force could easily be generated by wrapping the exposed axles in an air foil shape.Varying the angle of attack would adjust the amount of downforce,yet produce less drag than an unfaired(round)axle by reducing the trailing vortexes. If side skirts were added to a typical belly tank,similar to the old F1 cars without touching the ground,that would help control the airflow under the tank and the venturi effect would be stronger than that on the top,creating downforce.It might be possible to vary the angle of attatck of a belly tank to influence downforce without crating excess drag.
Maybe we can get Carps to explain to us how ground effects works with a flat bottom F1 car.

[Christian]

I saw this documenary on 'dambusters' one, during WWII the brits planned on busting all these dams that provided Germany with I dunno how many % of all it's electricity, to do that they developed these giant golfballs full of explosives, I think they used the dimples to give 'em spin, so when they would hit the water they'd bounce on the water 'till they hit the dam, then sank till all the way to the bottom where the pressure would sett 'em off, goodbye dam, and 9 months later, hello baby-boom http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[wingnutz]

The EAA published a huge article on these "Dimples" or "Ribblets" and did dyno tests on various components such as leading edges of props, wings and fuselages with significant results to drag co-efficiencies.

The results were significant enough to incorporate some manufacturers to utilize this design on some of their components.

I've seen that the World Cup Sail racers use "Ribblets" on their hulls to reduce the parasitic drag of their vessels as well! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Who knows..., Dented cars = fast cars...! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

If each dent equals 5 mph..., my car will do 1,000 mph..., Look out Chuck Yaeger...!! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Mark

[Digger_Dave]

Oh good, aerodynamics is BACK!

[just steve]

With my luck, I'd try this and end up driving into a sand trap or a water hazard . . .

Steve.

[flt-blk]

How would you adjust the airfoil while going down the track to keep the force as desired? Would it need to be computer controlled or could you do it manually?
I can imagine a specific rate spring that changes the angle of the wing at a certain downforce. Now how do you make the whole bellytank change its angle of attack?
TZ

As I understand the dimples on the underside of my knee-board are ther to stabalize it a little

[CalifCarl]

Looking for large size hail, hail storm for experimental purposes! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[DrJ]

[ QUOTE ]
How would you adjust the airfoil while going down the track to keep the force as desired? Would it need to be computer controlled or could you do it manually?
I can imagine a specific rate spring that changes the angle of the wing at a certain downforce. Now how do you make the whole bellytank change its angle of attack?
TZ

As I understand the dimples on the underside of my knee-board are ther to stabalize it a little


[/ QUOTE ]

Cadillacs and Lincolns (and a lot of other new cars I would guess) have "load levelers" that adjust the ride height to level regardless of how many people and their bags you put in the back of the car. but it works "slowly" so it doesnt adjust every time tha car bounces over a bump. It works throung a lever sending a signal, sort of like a gas tank sending unit. and it adjusts to keep the body at a certain level above the axle.
To adjust the inverted wing efect I think it would be sensed under the spring load so the wing angle would adjust to keep down force at a level dialied in, and adjustable from the driver's controls.
Of course it would be banned from use by new rules because that's what SCTA does when the driving of the cars start going "Robot"

[G V Gordon]

I've owned several dirt track stock cars that the bodywork was "dimpled". Never seemed to make'em faster though. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[Rix2Six]

[ QUOTE ]
I saw this documenary on 'dambusters' one, during WWII the brits planned on busting all these dams that provided Germany with I dunno how many % of all it's electricity, to do that they developed these giant golfballs full of explosives, I think they used the dimples to give 'em spin, so when they would hit the water they'd bounce on the water 'till they hit the dam, then sank till all the way to the bottom where the pressure would sett 'em off, goodbye dam, and 9 months later, hello baby-boom http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

But the found that the mines were more accurate if they were cyclindrical rather than a sphere.

[Chuck R]

PIE are round, cornbread are square.
cr

[41sled]

I just thought those little dimples where for looks or something...haaaa

[Junkyard Dog 32]

O.K. I'm not Mr. Wizard or Bill Nye "The Science Guy", but, I'm still gonna contend, that, lift on a high speed automobile would be detriment.

We've talked about golf balls, airplanes, boats and CARS. Of them all, cars are the ones you DON'T want lift on. They're ground based vehicles. Boats have rudders for control. Planes also have ailerons and flaps, trim tabs...etc, for control. Golf balls don't have control. If a car leaves the ground, it doesn't have control, either. It's rudders are it's tires, and when you add lift, you subtract control {on a car}.
RAY mentioned the vinyl roof thing in NASCAR. I never heard of that, but something that NASCAR has employed, that might apply, is the flaps that open when a car gets turned around. What happens when a 200 mph race car, which relies HEAVILY on downforce, goes backwards? It becomes an airfoil. It LIFTS. Those flaps are designed to reduce the venturi effect. The increase and subsequent decrease of air pressure causes the car to leave the ground. Once it does, it is acted upon by the air that gets underneath it... as in C9's "angle of attack" explaination. Hydroplane boats catch air all the time. However, they are launched upward by hitting waves, not by lift, but the result is the same as the hand out the window.
If you add lift to a 200+ mph car, it'll do just that... LIFT.. Without controls to take over when the tires leave the ground... YOU DIE!!! And even if you could control it, it wouldn't be a LAND speed record, would it?
The effects of "drag" are felt at the back of the vehicle, opposite of the direction of travel. Adding lift, is the same as a reduction in weight. Weight is downforce... downforce is not drag.
If you build lift into a car and run it at very high speed, it just might fly. I hope the ambulance driver knows a shortcut... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
I'm not a wannabe expert, I just like my car to stay on the ground.


JOEhttp://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Unkl Ian]

[ QUOTE ]
If you build lift into a car and run it at very high speed, it just might fly.

[/ QUOTE ] Yes,that's right.But we are talking about reducing drag by influencing the boundry layer.Any airfoil sections suggested were to reduce drag and/or produce downforce.
In the first pic,the tufts of yarn show fully separated airflow over the center of the rear window.The steeper the rear window,the worse the problem.
http://streamlining.com/img71.jpg Adding vortex generators to the roof improves the airflow over the rear window producing increased downforce AND reduced drag. http://streamlining.com/img70.jpg By encouraging the air to close in behind a shape,any shape,drag will be reduced.Pics from streamlining.com

[Junkyard Dog 32]

UNKL IAN- I've been meaning to thank you for posting this topic. I recently bought another house, and have been fixing it up to sell, and this thread has helped me occupy my brain while I've been working over there. All of the aspects of this entire topic are tough enough by themselves, but everything is compounded by so many variables. It's cool. Great thread.
I'd like to see the results of the dimple idea in a wind tunnel.

BTW- Are those little tufts of yarn TRADITIONAL? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


JOEhttp://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Deuce Rails]

I've actually been studying a couple of aerodynamics books.

The key to golf ball dimples is the angle of seperation of the boundry layer as the fluid (or air) passes over the tumbling sphere. And that angle changes as the air fows from the leading edge of the ball, over or under the ball, and towards the back of the ball. Because it's a spinning sphere, there's no normal "vortex street," or normal trailing wake.

A bullet, for example, would leave a seperated wake, just like a land speed car would. But a spinning ball doesn't. Those golf ball dimples are there to create that "vortex street." It's estimated that a 230 yard drive on a dimpled ball would fly around 50 yards on a smooth one.

The dimpels also do create lift. But I don't think that a tumbling, lifting car is a good thing on the salt flats.

Wingnutz mentioned "riblets," which are similar but different. In biology, they're called denticles, and are tiny V-grooves found in animals like fast swimming sharks. They're not dimples, but long grooves, in line with the flow.

Riblets work best at a size that's inverse to the speed. A shark may have bigger ones, but a slow (40 mph) solar car runs best with riblets measuring 0.008" high and wide. A land speed car would need even smaller ones. And that's probably a lot smaller than wet sanded paint.

Finally, Unkl had an interesting point about exposed wheels. They created a LOT of disorganized, low-pressure air. But there's something in addition to faired axles and angles of attack. If you could (legally) direct some high pressure air over the the air disrupted by the wheels, you would get some serious downforce...

--Matt

[Unkl Ian]

[ QUOTE ]
The dimpels also do create lift.

[/ QUOTE ] Would dimples create lift on a ball that wasn't spinning?And which direction does a Golf ball spin?

[C9]

[ QUOTE ]
Would dimples create lift on a ball that wasn't spinning?And which direction does a Golf ball spin?

[/ QUOTE ]

A non-spinning ball would be difficult to achieve with the lower lofted clubs - one iron, driver etc.
Even so, I'm sure it could happen and if so not much lift would be generated.

As viewed from above and assuming a right handed player, a "normal" shot - straight or with a slice/fade to the right, the ball will spin in a clockwise direction.
When the same player hits a hook/draw the ball spins in a counter-clockwise direction.
It has to do with the angle the club face hits the ball.

For a left handed player, insert mirror image and everything works opposite.

[Unkl Ian]

[ QUOTE ]
As viewed from above ... the ball will spin in a clockwise direction.


[/ QUOTE ] So the ball spins around a vertical axis. NOW I'm confused!I think I could see how a Golf ball could generate some lift spinning around a horizontal axis.But how is it going to create lift spinning around a vertical axis?The relative motion on the top and bottom of the ball is the same.

[Deuce Rails]

[ QUOTE ]
Would dimples create lift on a ball that wasn't spinning? And which direction does a Golf ball spin?

[/ QUOTE ]

Good questions.

I have no idea if dimples would create lift on a ball that wasn't spinning. I would guess that they would not. I also don't know how significant the lift is, anyway.

Doesn't a golf ball always have backspin, meaning it rotates in the opposite direction of a car's wheel.

Do open, dimpled wheels provide negative lift? Not if they're actually in contact with the ground.

[Deuce Rails]

The winner of the America's Cup Stars and Stripes used riblet tape made by 3M:
http://oea.larc.nasa.gov/PAIS/Riblets.html

[C9]

[ QUOTE ]
So the ball spins around a vertical axis. NOW I'm confused!I think I could see how a Golf ball could generate some lift spinning around a horizontal axis.But how is it going to create lift spinning around a vertical axis?The relative motion on the top and bottom of the ball is the same.


[/ QUOTE ]

There is a small component of spin along the horizontal axis when the ball is struck with a driver or other low-loft club, but for the ball to slice/fade or hook/draw it needs a large component of spin around the vertical axis.
Incidentally a fade is simply a mild spin and a draw a mild hook.
And to add some confusion, for a right hand player, the draw goes the farthest because it's component of horizontal axis spin is in the correct direction to assist in lengthening the rollout.
Rollout being after it hits the ground.
The fade/slice has the ball spinning in the opposite direction than needed and has the effect of putting the brakes on.
(are we getting off topic here? 8^)

So - getting back to the fade, - and we're still dealing with a right hander - one side of the ball (left) is spinning against the apparent wind and the other side (right) is rolling along the apparent wind which is what makes for the fade.
Or hook as the case may be.
Or the curve ball in baseball.

Also, due to the loft of the club (angle from vertical) which isn't a whole lot on a driver - ranging from 9 degrees which should be for the pro's or very good amateurs to about 12 degrees for the rest of us - the ball when struck does pick up a small component of horizontal axis spin, but not as much as the vertical component.
Loft being one explanation of why not too many average amateurs use a one iron.

Going up the loft scale to the steeply lofted nine iron, pitching wedge or sand wedge, the ball when struck correctly will take on a considerable amount of horizontal axis spin and that adds to the launch angle from the steep club face as well as making the ball climb even more.
The climb due to the same reason the ball fades or draws.
What little vertical component spin comes off a correctly struck steep club face is not too much.
Some guys and gals who hit the ball a long ways can fade or draw a nine iron etc., but it's not a real commonly done thing.

So here's the part that may confuse you.
Getting back to the driver and desiring to say, fade** the ball around a tree so as to be in the proper place for the next shot or perhaps even get on the green on a short 4 par, the driver is swung normally with the feet aligned properly so as to just miss the tree on it's left side.
The trick is, when you grip the club, roll the face open a bit.
The open face matching exactly the angle of where you want the ball to end up.
When the ball is struck properly - which is not always done, ask any golfer - it will it will fly left of the tree and start cranking to the right and end up where you want it.
There's no mumbo-jumbo or voodoo with the fade.
All you gotta do is aim correctly, open the club face for the fade, swing normally, physics takes over and the ball goes where you want.

Sometimes.
But that's golf....

**The draw is accomplished by closing the club face and following the same alignment rules.
Usually the ball is struck with a square club face, but for most of us the ball is not struck completely square and that's why some are faders and some draw the ball.

(My dad used to build custom golf clubs, knew the game well and knew how things worked as well as he carried a single digit handicap when he was younger.)

[modernbeat]

[ QUOTE ]
The winner of the America's Cup Stars and Stripes used riblet tape made by 3M:


[/ QUOTE ]

When I did sail research for racing sailboats, we experimented with riblets in the sail, small dams that would direct the air. They acted like miniature, skinny long parachutes to provide some loft within the sail to allow it to build a bigger pocket.

That failed. They slowed the airflow on the inside surface too much and caused the sail to collapse. We found that using segmented soft battens worked better. On the other hand, using a similar riblet that directed the flow away from problem areas of a sail, like the pocket immediately behind the mast, or the bottom few inches above the boom, and the area immediately in front of any fittings on the sail, smoothed the air flow around those items and gave greater continuous surface pressure on the sail. Having good transitions between the areas of sail pressure prevented sagging or creasing at those areas.

That doesn’t exactly translate to hard solid car bodies. Sails are two sided, and controlling the speed of the air on each side aids the loft and force transferred to the boat. What does apply to cars is that when it’s impossible to fare in any protuberances, provide a series of small riblets perpendicular to the air flow that build from a small to a larger size to separate the air flow from the surface before it hits the protuberance. In effect, you are creating a fairing of still air around the riblet that the swift moving air will move around with less drag than the actual car surface will have.

[48_HEMI]

The NASCAR racers that Ray brought up were the Super Birds vinyl tops. NASCAR nixed the whole car including the 426 HEMI
the vinyl was designed for that one purpose and not many caught on http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Travis]

SO...

How about covering your car in Teflon?!

Travis

[Deuce Rails]

[ QUOTE ]
SO...

How about covering your car in Teflon?!

Travis


[/ QUOTE ]

I can't get that damn stuff to stick to ANYTHING. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[hankcash]

I have always wanted a car made out of NERF!
I have actually thought about the things that you could do in a nerf car. It would be a blast if ALL the cars on the road were made out of nerf....
HC

[modernbeat]

Hank, stay away from me.

:-)