late 50s olds rear end question

[four-thirteen]

I’m thinking I might want to put an olds rear end in my ’32 truck. I’m looking for insight as to what is available by way of ratios and posi units in the ’57 style rear end. What years did they use that style until? I’d like to get something in the ratio around 3.50-4.00 to 1, and hopefully a posi unit. Also, what brakes will fit this rear? How big were the stock brakes? Dave

[Deuce Roadster]

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Pontiac and Olds gears are the same......57 to 63

2.56
2.69
2.87
3.00
3.08
3.23
3.42
3.64
3.90

There are different cases involved. Try to get the center section complete.

The brakes I had were 11 X 2 ........real common...same as Chevrolet pickups and a lot of 50 and 60's stuff.



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[four-thirteen]

Man, it's answers like this that make it worth it to sort through all the off topic posts. That's about everything I needed to know, but posi units and ratio tags. How hard are posis to find? and when I go to a junkyard, is there any tags or stampings on the pumpkin that says what the ratio is? I don't want to spend a hour or two digging out a car to find out it's a 2.56 one wheel. Thanks, Dave

[DON_WOW]

413a looking at the carrier casting to right of lower bolt at 7 o clock is flat pad with number. If anti spin it will have an L after the number.
code ratio
2 2.69
3 2.56
7 2.87
8 3.42
9 3.23
0 3.08
Starting in 1958 cars with air ride suspension had 96 percent posis. So if you spot a level ride in the boneyard your golden.

[Blownolds]

Nix on the 3.00 gear mentioned a couple posts up, there wasn't a 3.00. Just the 3.08.

The ratio break on carriers is:
2.56-only
2.69-3.23
3.42-steeper

You can fit 3.42-steeper gears on a 2.69-3.23 carrier with a 1/4" ring gear spacer, but you'll have to hunt a spacer down, plus that's not a good setup for drag racing if you're going to run it hard. Bolts could bend over and ruin the lash--and gears. But fine for cruising/mild street use.

There were two types posi's available. The Dana/Spicer Powerlok posi that awas introduced in '58 (two halves bolt together with 8 bolts), and the Eaton unit that was introduced in '63 or '64. The Powerlok is generally known as the tougher of the two, but I have talked to a couple Super-duty Poncho racers that actually preferred the Eaton after they did heavy modifications to it. Most of those guys have since gone to spools anyway.

There were two spline axle counts... 29-spline in '57-8 (the posi only available in '58), and 31-spline from '59-64. The 29-spline posi's are scarce, and 31 is stronger anyway, so look for one of those. There was one on racingjunk.com for $375. I just sold one today to a friend. They are out there but you have to hunt. I hunted heavily for 11 years but since decided to run a 35-spline spool.

3.64 and 3.90 gears are extremely difficult to obtain, the 3.64's are the rarer of the two. Both are scarce. Look for a 3.42. I just pulled a 3.42 out of a '62 Poncho (sorry, it's spoken for 6 times over, I have a waiting list).

BTW, according to my books, Olds had the "L" stamped after the ratio code for "Locking", while Pontiac supposedly painted a green stripe on their axle shafts. As far as I know, both used the Limited Slip lubrication tag attached to one of the pumpkin bolts (nuts actually). You can also try the spin test, but that won't work if the posi clutches are worn out.

[nobux]

Just a quick question, do the 57-63 center sections fit in a 53 housing?. Is the 53 rearend worth keeping around? I put a 12 bolt in my long gone 53 Olds 2dr hardtop, and I've been tripping over this ever since.

[Rocky]

NO the 57 and later 3rd member won't fit a 56 and earlier housing.....too big.
I still would like to know if the 59-64 Olds axles [31 spline] will fit the 57-58 Olds/poncho hoiusings after cutting 5/8ths inch off the ends of the shafts. If so, this would allow us to use later [59-64] 31 spline posi's in the narrow 57-58 housings...Bueler? Beuler?

[Rocky]

Nobux.....the 53 rear axle is worth using in a light hot rod. I don't believe a posi is available for it but the axle ratios are almost endless. They also use the 11X2" brakes. They interchange back to 1937 [pontiacs and I think olds is the same thing] and up to '56. All the wheel bolt patterns were 5 on 5".....
The down side is no ratios are available higher than 3.08, with most early/mid 50's ratios being 3.23 and 3.42.

[Blownolds]

3.64, 3.90, and even 4.30 gears seem to me to be much more obtainable for the '56-earlier rears than for the later big rears. The early rears were heavily used in old-time FED dragsters. They used spools quite often (or welded spiders or spider-lock gears) But there is no easy way to put a posi in. I DO know a guy that says he had a machinist modify and install a Mopar 8-3/4 posi (and probably gears) to go inside his stock '50 Olds rear. I don't know what was done.

Back to the '57-64 rears. I see some referring to these as '57-63. All fullsize '64 Olds/Pontiacs also had them with the sole exception of the '64 Olds Jetstar 88 which had the later 8.2 10-bolt rear. The Jetstar I's, and all other 88, 98, and Starfires used the big drop-out Olds/Pont rear that year. Oldsmobile always being GM's experimental division, they took one model and tried some transitionary stuff.

[Deuce Roadster]

[ QUOTE ]
Nix on the 3.00 gear mentioned a couple posts up, there wasn't a 3.00. Just the 3.08.
[ QUOTE ]


My Hollander lists a 3.00 http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Never had one.........just listed what the Hollander listed.... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif



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[four-thirteen]

Alright!!http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Armed with all this information I can't wait to go digging around for one, or a few for future projects. Maybe my digger project needs one too... How much power will these babys handle with a good spool, plenty of bracing on the housing and some good axles? Dave

[Blownolds]

Depends on vehicle weight and torque/HP, plus how hard the transmission and chassis hit the rear.

The Super-Duty Poncho racers I talked to were running fairly heavy door cars launching wheels-up and in the low 10's before they switched over to Ford 9's. I expect to be able to break into the 9's OK with my rear, but will be using 35-spline spool, Mark-Williams steel cap on the LH side, plus M-W pinion yoke for 1350 U-jt, plus solid pinion spacer, welded axle tubes etc. I think I will forgo the bracing bar in the back for appearances' sake. My gasser project is a P'up, which are fairly light in the back. Also blown engines tend to launch at lower RPM (in the old days, they just stabbed the throttle and let the transmission find its stall instead of using much stall on the line like now). Only thing is, the blown Olds will have a ton of torque and the hydro shifts harshly. We'll see if the rear holds up. I think it will since there are still several Super Gas cars with these rears.

One precaution I am going to take is my choice of pumpkin case. I have been told by the old-timer funny car racers that the '57-8 2-rib case doesn't give quite as much ring gear life as a '59-up 3-rib case. I also have been told by an old funny car racer that what started failing for them back in the early '70's was the pinion would blow out. The '63-4 cases have a larger O.D. on the pinion bearings and seal. This might give greater bearing load capacity, but maybe the case is weaker there due to less material. I will start with the '59-62 cases, and if I experience bearing failure, I'll try the '63-4 case. If I still have failures of either bearing or case, I'll be forced to switch to a 9" but I don't really anticipate that, these rears are tough.

[Hot Rod To Hell]

Alright... let me bring this WAAAYYY back to the top with a question.

If I'm at a junkyard with a big pile of rears, how do I identify the olds/pontiac rears??

[Paul]

and what the hell is thing taking up so much room in my shop?

the flat spot at about 7:00 is stamped with what looks like an 0 and no L

I guess that makes it a 3.08 non posi? and a three rib?

Paul

[Rocky]

Looks remarkably like this thing takin up room in my miniscule shop. This is a 57.

[Hot Rod To Hell]

If I'm at a junkyard with a big pile of rears, how do I identify the olds/pontiac rears??

[Hot Rod To Hell]

BTTT for the weekend crew???


If I'm at a junkyard with a big pile of rears, how do I identify the olds/pontiac rears??

[Tuck]

Dave, I have a 55/6 poncho rear with olds 12" backing plates and 59 buick drums, this is what im running on my roadster. I thought we counted the gears and it was a 3:48 ratio but maybe I have the 3:42 ratio, cant remember off hand. Regardless it looks AWESOME.

Tuck

[RileyRacing]

Easy, Steve, they're the ones under Olds' or Pontiacs. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Jay

[Hot Rod To Hell]

[ QUOTE ]
Easy, Steve, they're the ones under Olds' or Pontiacs. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Jay

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep... Everyone's a comedian...




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[Fat Hack]

Hey Steve...rumor has it you may find one of those Olds rears at a Disco Bash comming up soon!

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[RileyRacing]

Where? I don't know of ANYONE who has one of THOSE?? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Jay

[Hot Rod To Hell]

Alright Hack... should I bring hand tools, or should we just make it quick and easy and bring the torches??? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[RileyRacing]

The pix from 60's style look alot like the one I got, mine is a 56? though... Denise? What year is your dad's car?

Jay

[Rocky]

His is 56 88...