Is anyone building "outside the box"

[alteredpilot]

before i go on, let me preface this by saying that i'm well aware of the Barn Job and Tom's needlenose ... two of the coolest things i've seen in 35 years

thats not what i'm getting at...

and this is simply to satisfy my curiosity...

but it seems that for the most part, the HA/GRs that are being built all sorta fit into a paradigm of sorts. its not a bad thing, its just what it is. i COMPLETELY understand WHY each and every car is being built the way it is.

just curious if anyone has anything in the works that "breaks the mold" or "bucks the system".

[Thunderace]

Allways,
Current build no barn find/rust resto,
Made my own front axle,
building my own tube chassis from scratch,
and will scratch build the whole body.
Is that far enough outside the box

[64 DODGE 440]

Allways,
Current build no barn find/rust resto,
Made my own front axle,
building my own tube chassis from scratch,
and will scratch build the whole body.
Is that far enough outside the box

HA/GR?? We need pictures to feed our addiction.:D

[ThingyM]

What are you looking at Mitch.?? You want to do a front wheel drive with one wheel in the back or something.???? Let us have it...When he gets his thinking cap on, Watch Out.... Dick M

[moparsled]

I haven't posted pictures of my chassis design specifically for that reason. It will look like nothing else in the class when it's together.

I've recently decided on an equipment change as well. I carefully chose a Dana 44 rear from a narrow-track CJ5 initially, but after pouring over thousands of vintage drag racing pictures in the chassis thread and "in motion" thread, I have decided that a banjo rear is an absolute necessity. Merc axle conversion- here we come!

[ThingyM]

Good deal Mopar, I would like to see it..Any drawings yet?? A sneak preview would be neat..If you guys would have seen my original concept..All I would have heard is, WTF is that??????????
Dick M

[alteredpilot]

What are you looking at Mitch.?? You want to do a front wheel drive with one wheel in the back or something.???? Let us have it...When he gets his thinking cap on, Watch Out.... Dick M

you know me...
i just like peeking in on other peoples brains and garages....

i need to keep my brain in gear...

[havi]

Does an early 2000's Lincoln LS with a '62 Fairlane body count? Probably not HAMB topic material.

[Old6rodder]

Nor HA/GR .................

[havi]

Nor HA/GR :o

[Old6rodder]

Nor HA/GR :o :D See, I'm not the only one's done that. No sweat man.

Mitch, how 'bout a radial powered pogo stick?

Nah, staging'd be a bitch. :eek:

[64 DODGE 440]

Boxes!?!? Boxes!?!?....... We don' need no steenkin' boxes!:p

[moparsled]

Good deal Mopar, I would like to see it..Any drawings yet?? A sneak preview would be neat..If you guys would have seen my original concept..All I would have heard is, WTF is that??????????
Dick M

I have some crude drawings, but my scanner doesn't work! My folks are in town this weekend, so nothing is going. In four weeks I have spring break from night school, I'm hoping by then to have some teasers. I won't really have alot to show until I get the drivetrain in the chassis though. THAT's when you'll "see it"

hint: For historical reference, find a August '59 Rod and custom.

[zorch]

This is a tad different. The pic of current achievement doesn't reflect my vision very well, but it'll be a fenderless sedan with a sharp California rake, no sides on the hood, maybe zoomies, big and little Cragars already installed. I think it's gonna be sweet. Don't give a rat's pucker what anybody else thinks at all. I want some cargo space and this will provide it--there's beaucoup room out behind the seats. If I had to give it a name I'd call it a jalopy.

[Rand Man]

Good to see more guys finding the HAMB Gas Rail drag racing site.

[nexxussian]

Mitch, how 'bout a radial powered pogo stick?

Nah, staging'd be a bitch. :eek:

That and it's real hard to keep the cylinder base studs from pulling out when you're runnin' fuel.:D:cool:

[sgtlethargic]

I'd like mine to be a little different than what seems to be the norm. I'm gonna go for style points. I'm still considering fueling it with propane, too.

[Joe Hamby]

Hey sgtlethargic is it going to look like a fork lift? If so propane is cool.

[sgtlethargic]

Hey sgtlethargic is it going to look like a fork lift? If so propane is cool.

Ha ha!

[64 DODGE 440]

I'd like mine to be a little different than what seems to be the norm. I'm gonna go for style points. I'm still considering fueling it with propane, too.

HA/GR Rules #15. Pump gas/racing gas only. No Methanol, nitromethane, or alcohol.

[Old6rodder]

Hell, at least you won't have problems with your cylinder base studs ........ :rolleyes: :D

Actually, I don't think NHRA has anything on rules for propane tank certs.
Do you think they'd even allow it?

[sgtlethargic]

...

Actually, I don't think NHRA has anything on rules for propane tank certs.
Do you think they'd even allow it?

I think so. I had my Comet on the track, but the inspector didn't seem to notice it is propane-powered.

[biglar]

what box I don't see no box!

[64 DODGE 440]

what box I don't see no box!

Actually.......it's not a box.......it's a can.:p

[Old6rodder]

Hell, I do my best outside the box thinking on the can ....... :D

[64 DODGE 440]

Been canned a couple of times myself.:D

[Four Banger]

The last few days I've been thinking WAY outside the box, mostly out of my anger and frustration with the NHRA. I got the bright idea that I should combine both projects that the tech inspectors have shot down, as an act of defiance. Unfortunatly, the result would resemble an early competition roadster, and weigh in at around 1400 pounds WITHOUT my lard ass inside. It would look pretty cool, though! It would also be awesome to build two tech failures into one winner, and be able to tell the NHRA to bite me! What does everyone think of a HAMB Rail with the back half of a Sprite body? LOL!!!

[blown green t]

How about a hot rod flat bed? I bought this 1941 Ford 3/4 ton flat bed with the intention of building a bobber truck. The flat bed grew on me so now it's staying a flat bed. It now has a 350/350 combo (ya I know, but it was FREE!). Hope to have it running in the next month or two.

[havi]

I can't make out the Ford script on the flatbed, but if it's there, I would preserve it the best you can. I'm rebuilding a 9 foot one myself.

[Joe Hamby]

Hi four Banger. That body would be within the rules, but might not look like the "spirit" but I like your style. Just do it. Joe

[64 DODGE 440]

The last few days I've been thinking WAY outside the box, mostly out of my anger and frustration with the NHRA. I got the bright idea that I should combine both projects that the tech inspectors have shot down, as an act of defiance. Unfortunatly, the result would resemble an early competition roadster, and weigh in at around 1400 pounds WITHOUT my lard ass inside. It would look pretty cool, though! It would also be awesome to build two tech failures into one winner, and be able to tell the NHRA to bite me! What does everyone think of a HAMB Rail with the back half of a Sprite body? LOL!!!

Go for it!!:cool: Comp roadsters and coupes are cool!!:D I'd love to hang a Bantam on ours.

[blown green t]

I can't make out the Ford script on the flatbed, but if it's there, I would preserve it the best you can. I'm rebuilding a 9 foot one myself.
It's an 8' bed with the Ford script in the back of the frame. That was one of the reasons I wanted to keep it stock. It has a few holes drilled in the back rail though. For now I just want to get it running and leave it patina. But I'm thinking later I might strip it down and do a restomod from the frame up. My wife is not much of a car person but she likes the truck. She wants it painted though. One step at a time I guess:).

[348chevy]

If I wanted to get a divorce at this stage of my life I would build a replica of this, for one thing you could hide the cage under the body and I loved the old Speed Sport. Even though it was a roadster body they made them run in A dragster. One of the coolest looking cars ever built and if you never heard it run you missed a unique sound.:D Roy

[esfoder]

If I wanted to get a divorce at this stage of my life I would build a replica of this, for one thing you could hide the cage under the body and I loved the old Speed Sport. Even though it was a roadster body they made them run in A dragster. One of the coolest looking cars ever built and if you never heard it run you missed a unique sound.:D Roy
Building one of these has crossed my mind more than once!!! Cool as hell!

I havn't started mine yet maybe this would be the way to go???


Dusty

P.S. Hope the eye gets sorted out

[Four Banger]

I'm going to have to break down and get a 2009 NHRA rule book. If it's possible to construct the chassis out of some lighter weight materials, I may just do this. I'd need to figure out some stylish way of making it NOT look too much like an ordinary Altered. I like being different.....

[Toymaker]

Threw this together, everything is outside the box :D Rocky

[Joe Hamby]

Toymaker. Your picture was one of my thoughts, using a ford van rear end. Some of them are offset way to the right. Joe

[Toymaker]

Kinda looks like a "side car" :D Joe.

[Toymaker]

How about a sidewinder!

[Toymaker]

Okay, find an old boat and flip it over. I'm serious and havin' 2much fun

[Joe Hamby]

How about a fiberglass canue, it would cut through the air.

[Toymaker]

How about a fiberglass canue, it would cut through the air.
That'd be cool and light!

[sgtlethargic]

I'm looking at the "sidewinder" idea. The old boat idea is cool too. What year Ford van had an offset rear end?

Thanks,
Kurt

[Joe Hamby]

That ford rear end was most likely an early 70's. It is not as far off of to the side as that drawing. Those early flat nose vans had the engine off to the right so that the driver had foot room. But after looking at the pictures of that lotus I think you could set the motor over a little more than the rear end. Then have room beside it to sit. By the seat off to the left it could be lower. If you run a falcon, the exhaust will be away from the driver. And the shifter would be in the right place.

[Four Banger]

Wow! I've died and gone to heaven! Seriously, you guys are kindred spirits to me.....it's so good to see others thinking outside the ordinary. Every time I get down about things, a string of great ideas from others serves to cheer me up again. It's too bad we're not all in the same area....we could raise some very serious hell with the NHRA "Cookie Cutters" !!!
Toymaker, that contraption of yours looks like a cross between Smokey Yunicks "Sidecar", and a Hyder SuperModified. I LOVE it! I'll bet NHRA tech would have an absolute HEMORAGE over that!!LOL!

[Toymaker]

I drew them up with no idea of what drive train parts a builder would use. A field trip to a large (going extinct) wrecking yard might answer some questions. Joe's right about finding an offset rearend, maybe an early Jeep 44 would do the trick. The only way I can see doing a side winder is a modified front wheel drive unit. Any other ideas?

[Toymaker]

Ya know I'm thinking "style points" should equate to some et advantage:D

[sgtlethargic]

I drew them up with no idea of what drive train parts a builder would use. A field trip to a large (going extinct) wrecking yard might answer some questions. Joe's right about finding an offset rearend, maybe an early Jeep 44 would do the trick. The only way I can see doing a side winder is a modified front wheel drive unit. Any other ideas?

Yeah, Dana 44's can have quite the offset.

[Toymaker]

OK here is a refined concept of "pipeload". It's not all out of the box but it is different. Rocky

[sgtlethargic]

What program are you using to draw these?

[esfoder]

I think Don Garlits ran a sidewinder in TOP FUEL or at least tried it at one time? In the 70s I think? Why not use a chain drive with a straight cut keyed shaft. The weight transfer would be about the best anyone could ask for? Basic power transfer stuff...

Just a thought

Dusty

[Toymaker]

What program are you using to draw these?
Paint

[64 DODGE 440]

I drew them up with no idea of what drive train parts a builder would use. A field trip to a large (going extinct) wrecking yard might answer some questions. Joe's right about finding an offset rearend, maybe an early Jeep 44 would do the trick. The only way I can see doing a side winder is a modified front wheel drive unit. Any other ideas?

Hey rocky, if you are looking for an offset rear that's stronger than an early Jeep unit, the early Toyota Landcruisers, Land Rovers and military Dodge 3/4 tons had a major offset, both the WWII versions and the M37s that were built up til '68, and the later Jeep military M715 series had an offset rear that I believe was a Dana 60 series. the other potential would be to use a front axle from a late model 4X4 and just turn it around. Most of the 4X4 front axles are offset to the right so it might take a bit to turn around and rig the way you want, but Fords had the pumpkin offset left and either way it wouldn't be hard to lock down the spindles to convert it to rear end use.

If you wanted to go to the trouble of flipping the pumpkin in an 8" Ford rear you could get some offset rather easy, though not as much as the Jeep unit

There are lots of potential directions in those ideas for screwin' with the concept.:D

[348chevy]

I didn't know of Garlits ever ran a sidewinder rail but Jack Chrisman drove for Reath and Maillard and did quite well. The only problem is that it is high gear only with a solid tube axle for the rear drive. Clutch engaged a small sprocket on the engine which drove a large sproket on the axle. With a front wheel drive set up in the back it could be done with a transmission today. I wonder if there is anything out there that is strong enough to take the abuse.:confused: Roy

[ThingyM]

Roy.. I know where that car is right now...Also, Do you remember the "B&B lumber" car.??. A side by. Powered by a little model B ford 4 banger.. I loved that car...Always wanted to build one just like it. But was always to busy with my "Blow up" motors to do it...Someday...

[sgtlethargic]

...
With a front wheel drive set up in the back it could be done with a transmission today. I wonder if there is anything out there that is strong enough to take the abuse.:confused: Roy

I would think they're tough enough. Would it break the 'stock width rear end' rule if the steering was taken off and rear end flanges welded on? And, I erased my earlier question about the front ends after I called a guy and he mentioned the steering- doh. If a front was put in back, would the wheels rotate forward?

Thanks,
Kurt

[Mr. Mac]

Roy.. I know where that car is right now...Also, Do you remember the "B&B lumber" car.??. A side by. Powered by a little model B ford 4 banger.. I loved that car...Always wanted to build one just like it. But was always to busy with my "Blow up" motors to do it...Someday...
Oh yeah,I've had one one the drawing board since before we sold the Ramrod car.Yep,900 lb rear engine car using a four cyl.Oh Yeah! Someday:D

[esfoder]

I didn't know of Garlits ever ran a sidewinder rail but Jack Chrisman drove for Reath and Maillard and did quite well. The only problem is that it is high gear only with a solid tube axle for the rear drive. Clutch engaged a small sprocket on the engine which drove a large sproket on the axle. With a front wheel drive set up in the back it could be done with a transmission today. I wonder if there is anything out there that is strong enough to take the abuse.:confused: Roy
If I were to do it I would just run the straight shaft with the sprocket on it. Slide the clutch some and see what happens. I've seen a couple of sandcars like that. They seem to go like hell!! One of them had a shorty glide wedged in there I think.

Also I can't find anything in the 09 NHRA book about chain drive? Good or bad/

Dusty

[64 DODGE 440]

I can't find anything in the 09 NHRA book about chain drive? Good or bad/

Dusty

That's because the NHRA doesn't have any concept of innovation anymore, so they don't have any classes allowing for it.

If you build something different that they can't find in their book, they just tell you you can't run and that way they don't have to deal with it.

[Joe Hamby]

Is there some sort of chain drive within the old Olds Toranado front wheel drive transaxle? And some of the all wheel drive trans, like a dodge stealth could be used for a rear engine transaxle, maybe. Maybe you could use a pontiac, about 63 had the trans in the rear, I think that they had a 326 cu. in front. If you really look around there are some possibilitys for a short rear engine hookup. But it will take someone with more skill than I have. If you wanted to go with an automatic, you could look at a Chrysler LHS with frontwheel drive and the engine setting front to back, that one would hook up short and have rear springs, for good weight transfer. Joe

[Toymaker]

I was looking at a Toyota MR2 I believe. Rearwheel drive with a side mounted v6 turbo, I'm sure an adapter could be fabbed for a straight 6 or a flathead v8.

[64 DODGE 440]

If you are looking at mounting the engine fore and aft you could always use a late Corvair tranny. I've seen those turned around in Corvairs with some pretty healthy V8s hooked to them.

Or if you are looking for something that will hold a lot of torque, a lot of buses were rear engined.

[Old6rodder]

I don't know how "outside the box" we are, given the fair number of rear (mid) engine diggers that were tried early in the '50s. I do know that we had to build "outside the garage"; my tiny, one stall, 1918, downhill garage. :D

Once she was a roller it was built on the trailer for the most part. :rolleyes:

[348chevy]

You guys can do that in sunny California but for the rest of us it would be rustville in about 2 weeks. Jim Bersette who lived next door to my wife's folks ran several fuel dragsters out of a one car garage in Eagle Rock. Although he had built an extension on the back so it was a very long one car garage. I worked on my cars lots of time just in the driveway in Cal. But here it is cold in the winter and rains often. It is hot in the summer although Cal can be pretty warm. You don't need great digs to be creative just a great imagination.:D Roy

[64 DODGE 440]

If we weren't creative we wouldn't be building one of these rails.:D

[nexxussian]

If we weren't creative we wouldn't be building one of these rails.:D


Can we ge an AMEN BROTHER?? :D

[64 DODGE 440]

Anyone found a box??:cool:

[esfoder]

They are everywhere but the women keep them locked up in their pants:D



Dusty


P.S. is any one running a sprung rearend?

[64 DODGE 440]

P.S. is any one running a sprung rearend?

Don't know of any in the states, but that doesn't mean there aren't any, though I believe many of the gents down in Oz are running sprung rears.

[348chevy]

Actually most of the early rails ran sprung rearends. Bean Bandits, Romeo Palimides and my flathead dragster. Even if we put springs on the rearend we are still sitting in the middle with center steer. The only way to get NHRA to accept these is to widen the frame and put the driver over to the side. Then we have a roadster which our roll bars might pass. :rolleyes: Roy

[FANTASY FACTORY]

I was looking at a Toyota MR2 I believe. Rearwheel drive with a side mounted v6 turbo, I'm sure an adapter could be fabbed for a straight 6 or a flathead v8.

There is a V8 adapter kit for FIERO's, which is really just a locked out Citation fron end.
But back to the sidewinder,,
I figure, transverse 4 cyl, Hoffco CVT unit to jachshaft, cog belt to 1.5" hollow tub axle, Thse clutch's are infinetly adjustable to from engage ment RPM- aggressivness- rate of lock up and anout of ratio change.
Must be my 8 years running a Jr. Dragster with my kid talking.



Specifications Features Applications
Diameter: 8" Tunability Snowmobiles
Calibration: Uncalibrated High Heat and Wear Resistance
Housing: Cast Aluminum Roller & Button Life Increased
Bore: 30mm, 33mm 1:10 Tapered; 1-3/8" belt
HP: up to 200
Engagement: 2500 to 5000 RPM