Need Hemi Help

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Hey everyone, i have a 1954 plymouth savoy 2door and i've been convinced to put a hemi in it. I was going to put a 350 chevy in it but a buddy of mine convinced me to keep it a mopar drive train. so basically i would like to know some info about it. What is a good price to pay for a '56 hemi 354, complete but needs a rebuild? What kind of parts are still available for the old hemi's? What 4 speeds will fit up to it? Has anyone put this combo in a 53 or 54? Any tips?

thanks,
Enrique

[greaseball]

Why don't you go with a 350 and get one of those
"dress up kits" that makes it LOOK like a hemi?

[Assdragger]

If that car has a poly in it, I think you can turn it into a Hemi by changing the heads...just cant remember what flavor your supposed to use! I could be wrong on this but I dont think so. Anyone...anyone...Bueller,.....Bueller>>?

[RileyRacing]

I think any of the Chrysler hemi heads will fit on a poly block, cause I remember reading about making a 318 hemi... I will have to check my Chrysler Engine Swaps book.

Jay

[shoebox72]

Did someone say INTRO!

Billy

[SKR8PN]

Man...those EARLY hemi's are PRICEY to rebuild....
Why don't cha build ya like a 408 STROKER motor..
base it on a 360 MAGNUM ,.030 over with a 4 inch stroke crank..........ya can make a SHITLOAD of torque(450ft lbs EASY!).......GOBS of horsepower(400 without trying!).......and you can make it look/SOUND like a damn old 318...........Can you spell "sleeper"?????
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Bondo Slinger]

I gotta second what SK8PN said...just don`t put a sbc in it! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[four-thirteen]

[ QUOTE ]
I think any of the Chrysler hemi heads will fit on a poly block, cause I remember reading about making a 318 hemi... I will have to check my Chrysler Engine Swaps book.

Jay

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope. chysler heads fit chrysler motors, desoto heads fit desoto motors and plymouth and dodge heads fit both plymouth and dodge motors. The 318 poly family is a late comer to the poly set and no hemi heads fit these motors. These were the basis for the new small block LA motors: 273, 318, 340, 360, and they share many parts. Dave

[Mel]

According to "The Complete Chrysler Hemi Engine Manual" there are two versions of polys. One series was based on the Hemi block and came in displacements of 241, 259, 270, 301, 315, 325, 331, 354 cubic inches. If you substitue pistons, heads, rockerarm assemblies, pushrods, headbolts, intake and exhaust manifolds you can convert them to Hemis. Plymouth, Dodge, and Desoto engines require Dodge parts and Chryslers use Chrysler parts. The Hemi based polys started in 1955 and ended in 1958.

IMO just find a running or almost running Hemi. Parts are expensive for Hemis and just buying a block that needs rebuilding will be pricey enough... let alone tracking down all the parts you still need.

And where's the INTRO?
~Melissa

[Machinos]

Most of what makes a total hemi rebuild so expensive are the rocker arms. If you don't replace those it's much more reasonable, although if you compare ANY engine rebuild to a SBC it'll seem expensive.

I think the ideal package is supposed to be a 354 or 392 with '55 331 heads. The '54-'55 331 and 354 are fairly close, the 392 is the odd one. 354's are a lot more desirable though, so 331's are a lot more common and consequently cheaper, but all the same speed parts fit, so I'd go with the 331 personally.

They didn't ever come from the factory with a 4-speed manual, in fact I don't think any '55 and up Chrysler ever came without an auto. The early ones with the bellhousing cast into the block came with Fluid Drive, which is a 4-speed but it's a semi-automatic and not really worth hooking up to a car that wasn't made for it. You can get adapters easily (www.wilcap.com, www.hothemiheads.com (http://www.hothemiheads.com)) but they cost like twice as much for a manual trans for some reason.

[ QUOTE ]
Why don't you go with a 350 and get one of those
"dress up kits" that makes it LOOK like a hemi?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because at $850 for that kit, a real hemi is about the same price http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[RileyRacing]

Thanks Mel, I knew someone would know better. Also, if ya wanta build up the poly motor, do a search for 318 poly. Theres a site like 62-65dodge.com or something that built a pretty bitchen poly.

Jason

[48_HEMI]

start with plymouth didn't go to the V-8 till 55(how about that intro) the dodge and plymouth six's share the same motor mount with the early 241-270 dodge Hemis so its a direct bolt in ,you can even use the stock plymouth trans. (where the intro) all Hemis use the same Bell housings (except the 51-54 long bell 331 chryslers) but I'd be reluctant to put the stock plymouth trans behind the 392''s (did I miss the intro) if your subject was anything other than Hemi's you would be told its impolite to come on the board with questions without telling us who you are , where your from and what you like other than old plymouths! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

[Bugman]

Like Mel said, you need Dodoge Hemi parts to convert any early style non Chrysler Poly. But...For the price of the parts, not to mention the time it takes to find them, you can just get a Dodge Hemi. Later 318 based Poly's(303, 313, 318, 326) can't be converted.

However, the Poly heads are almost as efficient as the Hemi ones are. When built the same way as you would build a Hemi, plus a little headwork(bigger valves, ports, and chamber reshaping), a Poly will match a baby Hemi in power output any day. All accessories(intake & exhaust) will swap from a Hemi.

-Bugman Jeff

[DeS]

Some engine internal parts are changable from LA-engines: timing chain, oil pump gearshaft, main bearings with small modifications for example and electronic distributor from mopar performance fits to early hemi with light modifications

[desoto]

[ QUOTE ]
According to "The Complete Chrysler Hemi Engine Manual" there are two versions of polys. One series was based on the Hemi block and came in displacements of 241, 259, 270, 301, 315, 325, 331, 354 cubic inches. If you substitue pistons, heads, rockerarm assemblies, pushrods, headbolts, intake and exhaust manifolds you can convert them to Hemis. Plymouth, Dodge, and Desoto engines require Dodge parts and Chryslers use Chrysler parts. The Hemi based polys started in 1955 and ended in 1958.

IMO just find a running or almost running Hemi. Parts are expensive for Hemis and just buying a block that needs rebuilding will be pricey enough... let alone tracking down all the parts you still need.

And where's the INTRO?
~Melissa

[/ QUOTE ]



In order to bolt on a set of heads, you have to have a block with the same length.

Chryslers were the largest followed by DeSoto and then Dodge. The Plymouth poly-head engines are a totally different animal altogether. The rocker assemblies are DIFFERENT for each family of engines. None are interchangeable between families. There isn’t much that’s interchangeable between engine families at all.

Chrysler made the poly-head in 301 ('55), 331 ('56) and 354 ('57 - '58) 331/354 Hemi heads will bolt right onto these blocks. 392 heads will only work if you use a log manifold as the intake runners will be too close together (they're longer to compensate for the raised deck height of a 392)

With Dodge and DeSoto, you need to be careful of tall and low block configurations and intake manifolds are NOT interchangeable as they are with the Chryslers.

[desoto]

[ QUOTE ]
all Hemis use the same Bell housings (except the 51-54 long bell 331 chryslers)

[/ QUOTE ]

That's '51-'53. '54 331 cid blocks have a "normal" bellhousing flange.

[desoto]

[ QUOTE ]

I think the ideal package is supposed to be a 354 or 392 with '55 331 heads. The '54-'55 331 and 354 are fairly close, the 392 is the odd one. 354's are a lot more desirable though, so 331's are a lot more common and consequently cheaper, but all the same speed parts fit, so I'd go with the 331 personally.

They didn't ever come from the factory with a 4-speed manual, in fact I don't think any '55 and up Chrysler ever came without an auto. The early ones with the bellhousing cast into the block came with Fluid Drive, which is a 4-speed but it's a semi-automatic and not really worth hooking up to a car that wasn't made for it. You can get adapters easily (www.wilcap.com, www.hothemiheads.com (http://www.hothemiheads.com)) but they cost like twice as much for a manual trans for some reason.


[/ QUOTE ]

'55 heads on a '57-'58 (392) requires a log manifold or space plates to make up for the raised deck height of the 392.

As for manual transmissions, they WERE available and, although they were only 3 speeds, they were able to stand up to the torque of a stock hemi.

As has been mentioned, any MoPar bellhousing from that era will bolt right on.

As for a later transmission. a good machinist can make the pilot shaft index hole in the bellhousing fit a late A-833 and you can bolt it right up to the hemi.

....or you can use a readily-available transmission adapter for either the A-block 904 or 727 and simply bolt up a manual traans bellhousing to it and use the A-833 New Process 4 speed.

If a GM trans is to your liking, use the adapter for a turbo-350/400 and use a SBC bellhousing and Muncie / Saginaw or T-10 behind it.

[desoto]

and last of all, don't forget that yopu're buying a rebuildable core when you offer the guy a wad of money for a hemi.

They'reexpensive to rebuild. Rocker arms are NOT a big deal. There are a couple of services out there that offer them on an exchange basis.

The thing you have to watch out for is the person who does over your heads. DON'T let them talk you into knurled valve guides or, for a street motor, bronze guides. BOTH will wear out in short order -- especially the intake guides -- and you'll have uncontrollable blowbuy after 2 or 3 thousand miles because the valves are dancing around in the guides.

I've had the best luck, on the street, with a STOCK sintered iron guide machined to 0.0015" clearance. (Stock clearance) and I've put 210,000+ miles on a hemi on the steet. Bronze ot knurled guides = a valve job every 3-6 thousand miles. Sintered iron guides are good for 30,000+ miles.