Rat Rods in Dallas paper-KIRK!, Ryan & Chip Foose rub elbows

[KIRK!]

All kidding aside it is a well written and informed article. It was in Saturday's Dallas Morning News.

For rat-rodders, hobby is like punk rock on four wheels
October 5, 2004

By TERRY BOX / The Dallas Morning News

For the last decade, the billion-dollar hot rod business has fretted quietly about its graying enthusiasts. But few in the high-dollar hobby – in which cars can cost $100,000 or more – had expected the next generation to arrive in loud, unpainted jalopies that proudly sport junkyard parts, dents and sometimes even a few bullet holes. Traditionalists call them rat rods, and their tattooed, rockabilly adherents are shaking more than the pavement. There is a new growing movement among hot-rodders to leave the cars in a rough and original state. Though rat rods are the polar opposites of today's shiny, sculpted street rods, they are starting to reshape hot rod trends, making flashy paint and sparkling chrome a little less stylish. The movement also is bringing 20- and 30-somethings into a hobby they had shunned because of its expense. "Rat-rodders drive cars that many people can't even imagine sitting in," says Kirk Jones, publisher of the Goodguys Goodtime Gazette and a rat-rod apostle. "just like the '70s rebellion against polished, soul-less music, that gave birth to punk rock" said Mr. Jones, 35, who calls the cars "punk rods" and stages shows for them in California and Michigan. "They cull it down to the bare essentials, and that's what we're doing."

Rat-rodding is "all about these kids who were skateboarders in the '80s," says 28-year-old Ryan Cochran of Kansas City, Mo., founder of The Jalopy Journal Web site. "They appreciate mechanical art and have gotten into these cars. It's kind of a punk-rock generation thing." Some also see rat rods as a protest of modern six-figure hot rods that are so nice they can barely be driven. "They are certainly not as pretentious as the guy at the show in a lawn chair with his $70,000 car," Mr. Cochran said.

Whatever the reasons, the movement worries some in the hot rod business, which generates about $1 billion annually in sales and service. Rat-rodders take pride in their low-buck rides, many of which cost less than $10,000. "Regardless of whether it's a higher-end [rat rod] or a junkyard car, the industry is scared of them," said David Freiburger, editor-in-chief of Hot Rod and Car Craft magazines. "The big question for the industry is, will these guys ever grow up and build polished high-end cars?" Industry experts say they aren't sure just how prevalent rat rods are. "I'd say it is in the forefront of movements in hot rodding," said Kevin Lee, editor of Rod & Custom magazine. "This hobby is all about doing your own thing. When everything was polished and smooth, some people wanted just the opposite." Rat rods aren't hard to spot. Most are in gray or black primer or a mix of rust and primer. Some will be radically lowered and pin-striped.

When Mike Hubacek of Wylie, Texas, decided to build one, the look he wanted was "like it had just been pulled out of a barn." His 1946 Ford convertible still wears the remnants of 58-year-old paint – a color he calls "mother nature." "I've got bullet holes on one side of the car and, for a while, it didn't have a top," said Mr. Hubacek, 42, who owns two other "finished" cars and, ironically, a paint and body shop in Wylie. "I've had the car three years, and most people still say, 'When are you going to finish it?' "We have so much fun with these cars. We drive them everywhere. You go to a show, pull up, open the hood and walk off. You never have to worry about them."

Award-winning designer Chip Foose – a Hot Rod Hall of Fame member and star of TLC's reality series Overhaulin' – generally builds the sort of six-figure cars that rat-rodders say they despise. But he finds rat rods "enormously appealing" and is assembling one for himself – a '32 Ford roadster powered by an old Lincoln Zephyr V12 engine. And Mr. Foose does not think the cars, which he calls "rod-a-billy cars," pose any threat to big-name builders like him. "I see it as an affordable way for them to get into this hobby," said Mr. Foose, founder of Foose Design in Huntington Beach, Calif. "I think their dream is to someday be able to finish their cars."

Likewise, Sachse Rod Shop in Sachse, Texas, which has built hundreds of hot rods and street machines over the last 20 years, has seen no slowing of its business. In fact, rat-rodders sometimes approach the shop about going through its scrap, looking for discarded parts. "That rat-rod trend has been going on for five or six years now, and our sales have increased every year during that time," said Sachse general manager Mike Millsap. "But it is kind of interesting. It's actually going back to the grassroots of hot rodding."

Corky Coker, chairman of the California-based Specialty Equipment Market Association, thinks that the rat-rod movement will ultimately benefit all of hot rodding. "The most important thing is these young guys are getting out and catching the bug and are among us now," said Mr. Coker, president and chief operating officer of Coker Tire Co. Inc. of Chattanooga, Tenn., which sells new versions of old-style tires. "It is another entrance to hot-rodding." "Basically, it means it's OK to have real hot rods again," added Hot Rod and Car Craft's Mr. Freiburger.

[Flexicoker]

I read that! It's in the business section of the Saturday paper if you wanna read it. I was gonna post something about it but I couldn't find the full text online. Good job guys, you're quotes are great, much better that Foose's "Rod-a-Billy" or whatever he's talking about.

[Django]

Very good article except for GRIMLOCK being editor of R&C.

[du$ty]

good...maybe i wont get pulled over.

[NoSurf]

[ QUOTE ]
Very good article except for GRIMLOCK being editor of R&C.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was wondering about that too.

[bufordtjustice]

Pretty good article...well written I would say.

[AHotRod]

Excellant!

[Kilroy]

It's funny how all those guys seem to be talking about "rat rodders" as guests in THEIR domain. Like it's their hobby and a bunch of silly kids are just farting around.

When I was growing up, the only "Rat Rods" I ever saw were owned by 60+ year old men that had been racing on the lakes longer than Chip Foose had been on the planet.

I still find that funny. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[ELpolacko]

Wrong Kevin Lee, The new editor of R&C is the old editor from Classic Trucks magazine and a stand up guy.

[cleatus]

Chip Foose driving a rat rod ... it's like the Pope wearing a Def Leopard Tshirt

[Flexicoker]

[ QUOTE ]
Chip Foose driving a rat rod ... it's like the Pope wearing a Def Leopard Tshirt

[/ QUOTE ]
nah, thats saying that Chip is prestigious, i suppose he may think he is, but we know the truth.

[saltflataddict]

there we have it Ryan! Kirks new title for the Hamb -

"rat-rod apostle" = Kirk.. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[earl schieb]

[ QUOTE ]
said Mr. Foose, founder of Foose Design in Huntington Beach, Calif. "I think their dream is to someday be able to finish their cars."


[/ QUOTE ]

THAT'S some funny shit, y'all http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[SamIyam]

Corky Coker, chairman of the California-based Specialty Equipment Market Association, thinks that the rat-rod movement will ultimately benefit... HIS TIRE BUSINESS!!

Hahahahaha!!

Neat article... and pretty close to reality. I do however see it as an entry level type of car. And as the 20 and 30 something's income increases... so will the type of car that they build.

Only... instead of "graduating" to fiberglass hot rods and TPI motors... guys will gobble up the restored 32's and 34's... and some of the older street rodded cars... and turn them into nicely restored traditional hot rods.

Either way, the majority of the street rod aftermarket will either have to start building period speed parts that are dead nuts to the original stuff... like Coker Tires, those 97's that may or may not ever get here, Brookville bodies and a lot of the parts from Moon, SoCal and Speedway... or face a changing market that can be kind of harsh.

The entire market will always grow... but the Nostalgia Stuff will become a bigger part of that overall market.
Sam.

[Rand Man]

That's poses the philosophical question: "Does the Foose shit in the woods?"

[cleatus]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Chip Foose driving a rat rod ... it's like the Pope wearing a Def Leopard Tshirt

[/ QUOTE ]
nah, thats saying that Chip is prestigious, i suppose he may think he is, but we know the truth.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I guess it's more like Martha Stewart wearing a Def Leopard Tshirt http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Flexicoker]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I guess it's more like Martha Stewart wearing a Def Leopard Tshirt http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
Comparing Chip to Martha... That's quite possibly the best analogy I've ever heard! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Bigcheese327]

What happened to Jim Rizzo? I liked him (not that I'll dislike the new guy necessarily, just curious).

[pigpen]

Rizzo got bumped up to editor. The big cheese; big kahuna; top dog; skipper; master of the boat; all knowing head LLama; the main man; Carnac the Magnificent .............................................

pigpen

[KIRK!]

[ QUOTE ]

Only... instead of "graduating" to fiberglass hot rods and TPI motors... guys will gobble up the restored 32's and 34's... and some of the older street rodded cars... and turn them into nicely restored traditional hot rods.

Either way, the majority of the street rod aftermarket will either have to start building period speed parts that are dead nuts to the original stuff... like Coker Tires, those 97's that may or may not ever get here, Brookville bodies and a lot of the parts from Moon, SoCal and Speedway... or face a changing market that can be kind of harsh.

The entire market will always grow... but the Nostalgia Stuff will become a bigger part of that overall market.
Sam.

[/ QUOTE ]

That was a long conversation in the nearly 2 hour interview. He asked about the future of the high-dollar builders and the aftermarket parts industry. I said that to survive in the future they'll have to change focus to nostalgia style pieces not spaceship streamline blobs. I said that it's only a matter of time before we see NEW 97's and radials that actually look like bias plys etc.

[52Chief]

Pretty good story, I'm not to sure what to make of Fooses comment though. Different people have different ideas on "done" or "finished" for their car. I know mine never include 20" billit rims or a $10,000 paint job, which probably is his idea of finished.

It shows a positive light on "rat rods" future (god I hate that term, but it seems to be here to stay *sigh*).

[crewcutkid]

*cough* Robert Williams *Cough*
-Crew http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[59BuickWagon]

[ QUOTE ]
Chip Foose driving a rat rod ... it's like the Pope wearing a Def Leopard Tshirt

[/ QUOTE ]

No he just has to keep up with the other TV big shot over at Hot Dogs by Floyd and have a rod-a-billy car for his show.

[moondisc]

[ QUOTE ]
there we have it Ryan! Kirks new title for the Hamb -

"rat-rod apostle" = Kirk.. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif



[/ QUOTE ]
I can't find anywhere in the bible where an apostle says,
"Don't you fucking look at me!" hehe

[moondisc]

[ QUOTE ]
will these guys ever grow up and build polished high-end cars?"

[/ QUOTE ]
God I hope not!
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[ESnacky6]

Sounds like the Hamb could be 'mainstream' afterall...??

and I agree that not only as people's age/incomes grow,
as their building skills grow as well, 'rat rods' will
be a 'phase' of sorts, leading to building 'better' cars....
I noticed that this year at Paso... 'rat rods' taken to the 'next level'....

and to keep up with the demand of 'traditional'-styled parts,
aftermarket suppliers will be stepping up to the plate too...
(hopefully at least...)

Those are my thoughts anyway.... Later, Snacks...

[Broman]

It is kinda funny that "they"(street-rodders) are sitting around talking about "us" and what we are going to do to the hobby. Maybe it's just me but it feels weird to be talked about in any context, good, bad or indifferent.


And the quote about us wanting to "finish a car someday"...yeesh, I hate that. Our *quote*/*unquote* rat-rods were never about being finished or unfinished, they are about our interpretations of the origional cars in the hobby of hot rodding, am I right? I don't think they will ever get it. Please don't read any anger in this reply, I am merely speaking my mind here.

I never purposefully decided that was going to build a rat-rod. I just built my car with as much as I could afford. I chose a cheap car and built it with old parts that were cheap. I avoided chrome because it was cheaper that way. And I still ran out of dough before I could get it painted....relegated to the lowly "rat-rod craze" forever I guess.

The funny thing is that if I hit the lottery today I'd build the same kind of cars, only I could afford paint and chrome....


I like the idea that the major players in the parts industry might concider catering to us. That would be just peachy to me.


What do you think,

97's that are really fuel injection throttle body units?

hei disguised as bee-hives

someone jokingly said radials disguised as bias ply, bet that one could be true...


'spose that when we are all rich old guys that the "kids" will be scabbing together old fiberglass cars and making fun of our expensive, heavy steel stuff...lol

...come to think of it, I think someone has already said something like that before.

[choprods]

Im watchin Rides as I type this...what I see in the industry/hobby in general is a general lack of information on the"spokespersons" part and we are recieving a lot of second hand I heard from him- he said -they said type of definitions/terms and explanations about this"new" http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gifportion of the old car hobby.
It s kinda dissapointing to me as a guy who has lived old cars a while longer than some ,to see and hear this kind of talk from those who are supposedly "in the know".[[[[[[this is not about that newspaper article ]]]]]]]its about the publics take on what is going on being influenced in a questionable way by media types from numerous sources.

[Tman]

The HAMB is going underground, Ryan said so, I got my secret decoder software and new password, didn't you guys?

[____]

not yet Tman,you must have gotten yours first since your one of "another of Ryans people"... what does that mean? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[SlowandLow63]

[ QUOTE ]
"I see it as an affordable way for them to get into this hobby," said Mr. Foose, founder of Foose Design in Huntington Beach, Calif. "I think their dream is to someday be able to finish their cars."


[/ QUOTE ]

my opinion is that chip foose can kiss my ass. if anyone watched overhaulin tonight you would have seen him put a "thumpin" system in a 63 falcon with a tv in the trunk i believe overhaulin should sell him to that show on mtv pimp my ride there in to that whole tv in car thing

my next opinion is that if i could ever grace the planet as to own a model a, it would never be a finished car as to what chip would see as a finished car. it would have dents because it would be driven it would be in black primer because dirt is too hard to wash off shiny paint i hope to god i never finish a car because that would be taking away everything that is cool about ehat i love and turning me into a chip foose prototype

[ChuckleHead_Al]

The dissin'g should be directed to that weasel Foose, not my homie X-ZIBIT, I h8t Tortilla chip foose, i'd like to kick his ass and cut his anoying ass hair off...

[cleatus]

[ QUOTE ]
rat-rods were never about being finished or unfinished, they are about our interpretations of the origional cars in the hobby

[/ QUOTE ]

Word! brother - that's about the best description of rat rod I've heard - or the one that makes most sense to me. They aren't exactly "traditional", they are a new interpretation of it.

[57JoeFoMoPar]

I don't really mind Foose. I like him a hell of a lot better then Boyd, who just bitches like my friend's gf while she's on the rag. Foose at least knows how to turn a wrench. Regardless, our ideas of cool and his are very different. But to me Foose doesn't really play a major role because nobody can afford his shit, there's only so many Jay Leno's out there. He must have the principle of rat-rodding messed up in his brain. For me, rat-rods are built the way they are because money is a major issue. And what I mean by that is not that we'd build cars with TPI and shit, but that we'd be able to get that dented door fixed. Foose is builing a "rat-rod" with a Lincoln V-12. What next? Rat rods with Caddy V-16's? Allison aircraft motors? Nuclear power was popular in submarines in the late 50's, how about a nuclear powered duece coupe? COST IS AN ISSUE, ASSHOLE. Let Foose keep building cars for rich old guys...in 10 years they'll die, we'll buy em back, and melt all those billet wheels down and make finned valve covers. Keep it real, homies.

-'57 Joe

[R&C Lee]

[ QUOTE ]
Rizzo got bumped up to editor. The big cheese; big kahuna; top dog; skipper; master of the boat; all knowing head LLama; the main man; Carnac the Magnificent .............................................

Rizzo went to work for Boyd. He no longer works for Primedia. Got burned out and found a better gig.
pigpen

[/ QUOTE ]

[zonkola]

About those bias-ply-look radial tires...the future is now:

http://www.cokertire.com/store/customer/product.php?productid=18383&cat=363&page=1

[willowbilly3]

I think it is great read. Of course these guys are going to see things from their perspective. I doubt that Chip's attempt to build a "rat rod" will be at the rusty bullit riddled end of the spectrum but it will be interesting to see. He doesn't build my style of cars as a rule but you can't deny the guy is one talented dude.And he seems to be a straight shooter. He doesn't put on a bunch of attitude crap everytime the camera is on him, just does his thing. Bashing him because he builds high end cars and we don't borders on lame IMO. Boyd bashing is ok because he seems like a jerk. And a V12 lincoln is very traditional. One of my best frieds dad and uncles had a V12 powered A coupe back in the early 50s. But I suppose Roose's attempt will come out like Boyds, a downplayed highdollar rod with flawless body in what appears to be hotrod red primer.

[Kevin Lee]

I'm not the editor of Rod & Custom. That's a different Kevin Lee - christ this is going to be a headache...I've been getting emails for weeks.

About the evolution of rat rods or whatever, if you pick up that Peter Vincent book HOT ROD with the yellow Deuce on the cover - I think it's been out for at least two years? - in his interview Vern Tardel said pretty much what Sam and some others are saying right now. Something to the effect of "either someone is going to crash one of these things and the whole movement will go to hell, or they will evolve, turn into better builders and start doing it right." That was paraphrasing so apologies to Vern if the thought was too garbled. That was a pretty cool article.

[flt-blk]

Wait a minute,
Ryan was in Texas and went to Goodguys instead of the Drags
in Temple????? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[KIRK!]

[ QUOTE ]
Wait a minute,
Ryan was in Texas and went to Goodguys instead of the Drags
in Temple????? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif



[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think he was there. No Foose or Corky either. Just me.

[Rusty]

Hey how did Mr. Hubacheck get so lucky for the interview? I guess it must have been on a short notice or he just showed up at his house one afternoon to have left out the rest of the topless nutz gang. Hmmm he did not even tell us about the interview. I better find out. Doesn't his car have power windows and an aircondition? I love Mikes car but we all kid him about it being a show car under construction. Since when did a rat rod have airbags. It is an awesome car and gets lots of attention and I would love to own it but it is definatly not a rat rod. Elrusto did you know about the interview? Were there any pictures taken? Anyway it is always cool to see a buddy make some local news. Good job Mike

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v483/Dirty31/Denison009.jpg

[pigpen]

Rizzo Working for Boyd; interesting combo. Looks like I'm wrong again. Do you suppose R&C will get less commercial now?


pigpen

[BigDdy31]

That is a pretty decent article even though some of the 'takes' by the street rod boys are off a little bit.

I think the main problem in the 'industry' is that due to all the rich old fuckers out there who are their main customers right now, they have lost track of the fact that the economy has changed a lot for younger people and that many will never have the chance to "grow up and build polished high-end cars" even if they wanted to. I am 37 years old, have worked since I was 15, have had my own business, and now have a 'professional' type job (whatever that is nowadays LOL) and I could never see my way clear to pay $60-70 or $100K for a car. No matter how good you are or how good your job is, there is no real employment security like there was for some of these old guys who are spending their retirement savings on street rods.

Yes, traditional rodding is partly about rebellion but it is also a reaction to many other factors such as economics. That is one of the reasons that many of us enjoy being HAMBers; we can network together and get help and parts from each other that we might not be able to afford if they were purchased on the open market.

I can't remember which HAMBer has this as their sig line but I love it and think it represents a lot of people that I know on here. "If it ain't broke, I can't afford it."

Regards,
BDE

[choprods]

Yeah Grimlok -you arent the editor of R&C........I knew that.The test you have to take on that job interview includes the question -"what is this ancient artifact that looks like a smooth chrome wheel with no windows?"
see-you were not qualified! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gifhe he!Just kiddin. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Elrusto]

I kinda heard something about it. They contacted James Crawford and he hooked them up Mike. Suse told me this awhile back.