Need advice from old pontiac guys please

[Chandler]

ok. i have a 57 pontiac with a 347. the motor is smoking out of the breathers on the valve covers. The car idles but doesnt run good. Is it worth rebuilding the 347? I found a kit for $1300. In yalls opinion is this to high? I didnt know if I was better off trying to put a 350 in it since it has more readily available parts. any advice will be greatly appreciated since Im used to Chevys only. Thanks

[Unkl Ian]

What is in this "kit" ?

Expect to PAY for machining.

[Chandler]

ill have to look it up but everything other then a crank and oil pump. Its from a place called Kanter. Right now the car is just a 2 barrel. dont mind if it stays the same. not trying to make a super fast car. are you the same Unk Ian from the Pinstriping board?

[Chandler]

oh yeah. i forgot. i have to send them all of the old rocker arms and some other items..........

[Chandler]

PONTIAC V8 1955-58 287, 316, 347, 370
GMC TRUCK V8 1955-58 288, 316, 336, 347 Top of page

BMD Overhaul gasket set (55-57) $110
BMD Overhaul gasket set (58) $85
BMD Overhaul gasket set GMC Truck $125
BMD Piston (8) $45ea
BMD Ring set $72
D Piston pin bushing (8) $5ea
BMD Main bearing set $125
BMD Rod bearing (8) $8ea
Connecting rod (exch only) $40
BMD Cam bearing set $25
BMD Timing chain (55-58 3 piece set only)$35
BMD Cam gear (55-58 3 piece set only)$35
BMD Crank gear (55-58 3 piece set only)$20
MD Cam shaft $125
D Push rod $5ea
Rocker arm exchange only $14ea
BMD Valve lifter, 55 (lifter &
pushrod set only) $176
BMD Valve lifter, 56-58 (16) $6ea
D Intake (8) or exhaust (8) valve $14ea
D Valve guide (16) $3ea
D Valve spring (inner or outer) (32) $4ea
MD Oil pump $75
B Oil pump kit $50
Fuel pump, SA (exch or add $25 dep) $95
Fuel pump, DA except with fuel inj.
(exchange or add $25 dep) $95
Fuel pump, DA 57-58 with fuel inj.
(exchange only) $95
Water pump $95
Motor mount $30
Transmission mount (2 req) $30
Basic overhaul kit B $895
(Basic Kit include all items with B)
Master overhaul kit M $1035
(Master Kit include all items with M)
Deluxe overhaul kit D $1350
(Deluxe Kit include all items with D)

[safariknut]

Have you done a compression check yet?Poor running could stem from a number of things:incorrect timing,vacuum leak,valves adjusted improperly,bad gas,bad fuel pump,etc.
How much smoke coming out of the breathers?A lot? A little?What does the oil look like?How about the coolant?Any evidence of oil in the cooling system or water in the oil?When was it tuned up last?Are the points set correctly?
Before you decide to spend a lot of money on a rebuild you should determine exactly what the problem is.My 55 287 engine was rebuilt when I bought it and I've logged well over 100K on it and it still has plenty of compression and runs decently.Pontiac engines are pretty reliable and as long as the oil is kept clean and you don't try to get 8000 rpm out of it every time you accelerate,it should last a long time.
How original do you want to keep the car?It is a lot easier to sell if it is close to original than if it is bastardized with something else.57 Pontiacs are usually pretty quick as built and my own personal feeling is you'd have to spend a lot of money on a SBC to get it to perform as well as the stock engine that is running well.Just my own feeling on the subject.

[Unkl Ian]

[ QUOTE ]
are you the same Unk Ian from the Pinstriping board?



[/ QUOTE ]

There is only one.
Accept no substitutes. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[flamedabone]

PLEASE do not put a 350 Chevvie in it.

If the rebuild is too much money, think about an engine swap. The late model Pontiac motors, (65 through 79) look like and are about the same size as your 57 motor. You could slap in a low mileage 76 400 and tranny in a weekend.

Even if you found, say a 67 389 that needed rebuilding, you can do it WAAAY cheaper than the 57 motor, plus you can go to your local Auto Zone and get any enging part you need.

By the way, all V-8 Pontiacs from 65-79 look the same on the outside, but range in cubic inch from 326 all the way to 455.

[296 V8]

Stick with Pontiac power. You won’t be sorry.
Btw 67 was first year for the 400

[oso64]

i'd throw a big block poncho in it!! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Justin B]

ok i've gone through this a couple times with 55 pontiacs. put a early 70's 455 and turbo 400 in one and a 350 chevy with a glide in another. if you are going to spend that much $ plus machine shop fees and assembly time i would put a newer pontiac engine in it. the early engine and trans ( pre 60) are really expensive to go through. i paid $1000 for the 455 and turbo 400 they came out of a restored car that had been wrecked, only had about 10k miles on them too. the 350 and glide swap was for a drag/steet car for a friend. both ways your going to have to make new motor and trans mounts. i don't remember if 57's are the same way but 55's have the master cyl. on the frame rail. that was no problem with the 455 because the way the exhaust angles down coming off the heads, bassicly the same position as the earlier engines. however chevy exhaust ports come bassicly staight out the heads, that was a major pain in the ass. we tried probably 5 different style headers on that car and nothing would clear on the drivers side, they would either hit the power streering gear box (he wanted to keep the power steering so his wife could drive it) or hit the master cyl./power booster, eventually i ended up cutting up a set of rear entry block hugger headers and they did work but it was a pain. anyways point is if you do decide to do a swap look for a pontiac engine first. there a much better fit and it just sounds better to have a pontiac in it than a chevy. on the other hand if you do decide to keep it origional look around for a better price on the kit, kanter seems to be a little pricey most of the time. try P.A.W. they should have a kit for alot less. anyways goodluck wichever route you choose

[rustynewyorker]

Here's the deal. '57 Pontiac was one of the two fastest '57 production cars, finishing second to Chrysler in the Daytona beach trials only after their first place car was DQ'ed. The 347 is a good motor.

If you opt for later Pontiac power, Chief Many Horses (.com) has a mount kit for post-65 V8s into this chassis - I have not tried one, have heard good and bad, you could build a '59-60 389 and it would bolt in for a cheaper rebuild - bore it .055 and it becomes a 400 anyhow.

The '57 is a real bastard to change motors in. If you don't use the stock exhaust manifold, it probably won't clear the steering. Expect to have to mock it up no matter what engine and trans combo you choose. From what I have read headers intended for '65-66 GTO will work but you may need to mount the engine as much as an inch off-center to clear the steering.

My '57 if I can't come up with a decent original motor I will most likely run with a '59 or '60 389 - apparently '60 is the last year the blocks were still drilled so they can use a '57 type front motor mount (some say '59 so check around). I found a '59 with a tri-power still on it the other day, so who know what I will end up with in the long run - too many cars, not enough cash to finish one.


Was I running an early motor, I would dig up a 301, which is a crap motor, and steal the timing cover. It lets you run a late water pump, which is $40 in any parts store instead of the $100 from kanter 4-bolt pre-65 unit. You can take the HEI from the same car and the distributor is a bolt on to your 347 or 389 block, too. Oil pan weak? Again go to the 301.

All Pontiac V8's are the same basic block assembly - even the early '60's 4-cyl used in Tempests was a V8 with only one cylinder bank. Many people use the term "big block Pontiac" but there is no such thing. A 455 is basically just a 400 with smaller journals so they could have a longer stroke - some of the race guys are turning down the rod journals on 400 cranks to run 455 rods but keep the larger main bearings, in fact.

You can't easily match 64-earlier blocks with later transmissions - they lack the starter mount ear on the block and the bolt pattern changes. An adapter kit is made to bolt 61-64 motors to later transmissions. The folks who make it may do one for the older blocks, but last I knew had not done the engineering to make one up yet.

There is a real good guy on the pontiac-1950s Yahoogroups list, who may be able to answer more questions - or sign up and look through the old postings because this has been covered several times there.

[rustynewyorker]

I should add, you can change the pedals and master cyl to Chevy stuff, and add an electric wiper motor made for Chevy on one of these. Or use a street rod kit for a dual chamber master cylinder. The heaters on these cars are just plain f-ed up with a little defroster on the firewall and the big main heater core under the seat - the defroster box is in the way of a firewall style master cylinder. If I do mine it's going to get a newer heater out of some other GM car put into it. I need to look at how Chevy did theirs and what's available to fit those now, I think that will make it the easiest on changing it.

[ponchobilly]

The old Pontiac motors were prone to cracked rings. This would make them smoke out the exhaust also. There is a breather off the back by the distributor too... is it smoking heavy from there as well?

I have never been unhappy with my Pontiac motors, the automatic transmission (Jetaway) is what forced me to go to a late model setup. I would not put a fresh engine in front of a '57 tranny... the tranny won't last long and it don't fix cheap!

Run a piece of hose from the air filter to the breather like a PVC setup. If it is just an annoying bit of smoke, let the engine burn it up.

Rocky, add a little wisdom, please.
Bil

[Rocky]

Wisdom Billy? I dunno if what I do with 57 Ponchos' is wise or not. My usual approach is powered by sentimentality more than wisdom.
Poncho Billy slid a 350 Chevy into the 57 Pontiac pictured above and below. I cringe every time I ride in the car...it's just not PURE anymore but he drives that thing all over this fair land...I mean ALL over this country, literally!
I like the 347's but I need a little more "snap" in my Pontiac. My usual modus-operandi is to yank the 347 and bolt in [yes, it literally bolts in place] a '59 or '60 389 engine. All this engine is--is a 347 with a longer stroke. Makes a substantial amount of torque to yank around a heavy 57 Pontiac. About all it'll cost you is the price of the engine. I believe rebuild parts are a little cheaper that 347 parts too.
The '59 engine still has the water distribution tubing and hosing at the front of the engine like a 347...appears identical to a 1957 engine. The 1960 engine has none of the hosing/tubing bullshit but is still the same engine with reverse-flow cooling system....just use everything that originally came on the '60 engine, like waterpump and front cover. The '59 and '60 front covers still have the drilled and tapped holes for the '57 center/front motor mount, making the engine a true bolt-in.
You can bolt the 59-60 engine up to the 57 trannsmission too, keeping your 57 rear mounts, which bolt to the 57 tranny.
If you want to, the 57 intake with it's little girlie-man 2 barrel will bolt up to the 59-60 engine but you midght as well grab the poor engine around it's throat and strangle it to death! C'mon man!
Pop a stock 57-60 four barrel intake on the thing with it's Carter AFB for some "passing power". This trick will take advantage of the 389's added size and the stocker 59-60 afb motors made an honest 303 HP. from the factory. I guarrantee you'll love it!
You can also slide a later model [up to 1979] Pontiac V/8 electronic ignition distributor [HEI] from a 74-79 400-455 engine in the older engines for trouble-free operation and no points to fiddle with.
Your 347 no doubt has a single exhaust setup under it now. The 389's need to breathe. If they'll fit, use the 59-60 dual exhaust manifolds and bolt this bad-boy in place. You can use the stock '57 engine colors on it with your stock script-lettering '57 valve covers to fool the entire world.
But, a 350 chevy with a 350 turbo is gonna run you about 1/2 of what it takes to use an old Poncho engine in your car. This is simply a cruel fact that must be addressed as such when making a decision like this.
Son, you gotta ask yourself.........how bad do I want to keep Pontiac power?
This is Billie's car at my house after driving here to Omaha, Nebraska from New York City to deliver me a nice old 57 Pontiac rear axle, He actually had it loaded into his trunk with about 3,729 LBS of other parts and tools and luggage. Said the gear ratio was too low for his hiway cruiser Pontiac and he went to a 10 bolt GM with high gears.
All that said, I'd do some serious testing of your current engine before giving up on it. These old V/8's had no PCV system to pull blow-by gasses out of the crankcase. They simply used a metal vent tube from the back of the block, down beside the transmission to a little round muffler-lookin filter thingee that would need cleaning from time to time...it was all part of servicing the engine. Nobody paid much attention to these little wonders and they would eventually plug up with crankcase goop.Then, all the blow-by would be forced right out the oil fill caps on top of the valve covers. I'd be looking at this filter with malicious suspicion and I'd attack it with a good soaking overnight in solvent. Take the entire tube with it's filter off the car and clean hell out of it..put it back on and run a compression test on a warmed-up engine. If it comes out ok, I'd do a basic tune up on it and drive thet sucka. Good luck, pontiac bro.

[Rocky]

This is a photo of my very own '60 Pontiac 389 that's slated to go into my 41 Pontiac business coupe. See? No funny lookin hoses and coolant tubes coming off the water pump housing. Mine has been modified to give an estimated 350-360 HP.and still be driveable on the street with good manners....the engine's, not mine.

[Rocky]

Oh yeah.......it's been said the Pontiac HEI distributor won't work on a pontiac engine using an Offy dual quad intake. Well, some ohter reports said it WOULD work. This photo proves it will bolt-up but there is mucho interference. I believe I can do a little creative grinding on the distributor cap, the carb spacer/adapter and on the back of the intake to get enough clearance for some timing adjustment if the distributor is installed on the correct tooth to begin with...

[Kustom Chief]

Stick with the Pontiac. 400's and early 389s are a ton of fun and you can pull out tree stumps with the torque that they have. I have a 62 GP that runs great with the 389. I also have a 287 to put in my 54 Pontiac. My father is bonzai Poncho with a ton of muscle toys sitting around the house.

Larry

[twjoyce]

Lot of good Pontiac advice in this thread. Unless this is a really high mileage, wore out motor, have the cylinders honed true, knurl the pistons to fit and put in new rings, the blow by and any oil consumption will be history. Throw in new bearings, timing set, a valve job, lifters and the cam of your choice and you will have a long living motor for much less. My opinion is that 350 chevy motors only belong in cars too new for anyone on the HAMB.