REAL cost of not knowing basic auto repair (sorta off topic)

[Action Girl]

My assistant at the office is a super swell gal who knows nothing about cars but is basically brilliant in most other regards.

She didn't start driving until last year, and her parents got her a 1994 Geo tracker after she got out of college so she could commute to work. Recently, she started having problems with it and today she dropped it off at the shop...

The symptoms were- Squealing noise when the engine started (loose belt), car shuddering at idle, problems accelerating, and poor gas mileage.

While at lunch she got a call from the Mechanic (rated BEST in Baltimore in recent years) who told her she urgently needed the following items.

- tighten the loose alternator belt
- A new set of plug wires

He also urged her to get:

- new fuel filter (seems like that shouldn't have been optional)
- plugs (hers were fine but he didn't like the "brand")
- wiper blades
- distributor cap
- distributor rotor
- air filter

Here's the fun part... she could have this done ALL TO THE TUNE OF $490!!! YIKES! Not knowing any better, she told him to go ahead and do the work if it needed to be done she then got of the cell and resumed lunch... I said, what are they fixing on your car? and when she gave me the list I knew immediately that she was being overcharged and told her to call them back and have them fax a breakdown. She called back and while he had her on the phone he convinced her to have the belt tightened and to replace the plug wires immediately as it was "too dangerous" for her to keep driving with the current ones. She fell for it and gave him the OK on those two things without seeing the estimate.

Long story short... We got back to the office and I looked up the parts she needed, all of which were available and in stock locally at Parts America. If she bought the parts and we did it ourself, the parts would total $78.82.

The shop was charging $330.29 for the parts and $144.00 for the labor then $16.51 tax. So.... if we did this entire job on our own she would save $412.78.

Since she already okayed the plug wires and belt adjustment, we're going to get the car and pay for those repairs. The damage is $215! The thing that floored me the most was the $169.69 they are charging for the set of plug wires especially considering I can get a set of OEM for $29.95. I feel sorry for all the people out there who are taken advantage of like this, especially because it makes people suspicious of all mechanics even the ones who aren't dirtbags.

I wonder what kind of estimate they would have given a guy? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Stacey

[sxdxmike]

i hate the thought of having to take my car somewhere if i cant figure out the problem or is beyond my skill to fix. i don't claim to know alot about cars, but i try hard to solve the problem myself before taking it anywhere... it's just sad to think about because you are only referring to car related repairs/parts, but think about allllllllll the other crap people get ripped off with on a daily basis. it's made me so jaded to the point where i will walk in a store and consider trying to make the item myself before handing out the cash for a 200% marked up product... such is life i guess. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[zman]

Sounds like "the best rip-off artist" in baltimore...

[Unkl Ian]

Flat rate mechanics typically figure out what the problem is,
and then change everything within a 3 foot radius.




When your mechanic earns a commission based on the parts he sells,you know your in trouble.


ALWAYS ask for the old parts back.

[Spitfire1776]

[ QUOTE ]


I wonder what kind of estimate they would have given a guy? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Stacey








[/ QUOTE ]

Anymore amost dudes would get the same quote because while the population of car savvy girls has gone up, car savvy dudes have gone down....

[InPrimer]

Stacey ,this might help. if you have a vocational school near you, lots of high school kids will be willing to do the job under the supervision of a tech teacher, we have a school near us that does just that, they 'll put on shocks and anything else as long as its not too complicated. they charge a minimal amt of $$ to do it, they need the experience, some move on to pro mech after more schooling .

[Deyomatic]

[ QUOTE ]

I wonder what kind of estimate they would have given a guy? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Stacey


[/ QUOTE ]

I bet it would be the same. My father has NO CLUE when it comes to cars, so he always pays way too much. He also doens't trust that I know what I'm talking about. For some reason, his 1995 Chevy Pickup needs a $300 tune up every 2 years. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[Gracie]

They should charge her extra for having to work on a fricking Tracker... they suck...

I had a (I can't believe I'm telling you this) Renault LeCar and when I would take it to the Renault dealership (no one else would touch it) the guys would actually fight over who had to do the work on it... right in front of me. I didn't blame them... you should have seen it...

[Baron Von Mike]

[ QUOTE ]


I bet it would be the same. My father has NO CLUE when it comes to cars, so he always pays way too much. He also doens't trust that I know what I'm talking about. For some reason, his 1995 Chevy Pickup needs a $300 tune up every 2 years. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif



[/ QUOTE ]

I HEAR YOU! My Dad, rest his soul, got very defensive as I got older and started learning things and would correct him. Eventually I got better than him at things. He never listened to me as I was going through two years of high school auto, until one day I couldn't take it anymore. His truck was idling poorly, I told him his distributor was probably loose, his reply was "What the hell do you know?" He always barked loudly. I just got up, grabbed a wrench, started the truck, and adjusted the distributor by ear until his rough idling went away. From then on he'd always come to me first. I felt pretty cool. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I'd hate to think of the money I'd have spent over the last 20+ years of working on my own cars...

Mike

[squirrel]

For the other side of the story...having run a repair shop for a while, I understand why they charge they way they do. It has something to do with wanting to make a living.

I charged prices you would want to pay, and basically wasted 4 years (as far as earning money). The education I got was worth the time, though.

But I agree, you should do your own work if you have the know-how or even a friend that is willing to help you learn, you can save a bundl! Unfortunately most people have no interest in working on their own cars.

[G V Gordon]

Hey! I used to race a Renualt Le Car. They corner on the door handles. Loads of fun. That said, they are French and basicly a shitty little car. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Nads]

A Le Car is a marvel of engineering compared to the Alliance.

[Action Girl]

[ QUOTE ]
A Le Car is a marvel of engineering compared to the Alliance.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with Nads... Renault Alliance is the biggest shitbox ever! My friend in high school had one of those things... it was AWFUL.

Stacey

[Tony Bones]

Hey, let's give the Ugo credit where credit is due here, OK?

Only car to ever come w/ factory handwarmers on the rear hatch for pushing on cold days.

[ QUOTE ]
A Le Car is a marvel of engineering compared to the Alliance.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Nads]

I've got a Renault Alliance story for you.

I and the very pregnant ex wife had an antique store in '89. I really didn't know how to ride a motorcycle but my friend had a '68 Bonneville and I was riding it in the parking lot. My other friend's Alliance was parked in front of a trophy shop. All of a sudden I panicked and went flying into the back of the Alliance and flew over the top and landed on a grassy patch, the ex thought our child would be born without a father. In a way that stupid French car saved my life, otherwise I would've ended up in the trophy shop wearing a prize through my frontal lobe for being such a dumbass.

In one fell swoop I did about $700 worth of damage to my friend's vehicles. I only cried over the Triumph.

Very soon after I helped replace the forks on the Triumph his neighbor across the street backed his car over the poor bike and damaged it again.

The bike was eventually stolen when my buddy moved to California. At least 3 years had gone by when the Police called him and told him his bike had been recovered. Unbelievably the thieves had turned it into a flattracker and had rebuilt the engine and turned into a real little screamer.

I guess the story has a happy ending, I'm pretty sure the Alliance eventally was crushed after having served a useful of life of about five years.

[cosmo]

A Renault is to a Citroën as a Yugo is to a Chevy.
That said, I've heard from fans of the R5s (LeCar), yet I would never own a Renault.
And I've never had serious trouble with any of my Cits.
Now for another story of the terminally automotively stupid:
A guy I worked with (we all owned routes, generally HiCube trucks) had a 1997 Chevy HiCube. He was going to trade the truck in on a new one, but for some reason decided that he needed the brakes done first. As usual with these trucks, the brake job was $1,200. The next day I saw him on the side of the road near the depot, truck leaning with the left rear duals, axle, brake drum et al off to the side, the end of the axle just barely still in the tube. I figure the repair shop had blown it big time. Day after, he tells me that the shop told him that it was somehow not their fault (I informed him differently, but like someone said, there are those who will not believe you if you don't wear a uniform), he was told that the job would be $1,300 to repair the axle tube (weld on a new end), and re-do all the damage that happened when the whole plot let loose.
Then he traded the truck in on a new one anyway, and got $2,500. Really. I still shake my head.
Cosmo

[Action Girl]

[ QUOTE ]
For the other side of the story...having run a repair shop for a while, I understand why they charge they way they do. It has something to do with wanting to make a living.

I charged prices you would want to pay, and basically wasted 4 years (as far as earning money). The education I got was worth the time, though.

But I agree, you should do your own work if you have the know-how or even a friend that is willing to help you learn, you can save a bundl! Unfortunately most people have no interest in working on their own cars.



[/ QUOTE ]

It's not about what she "wants" to pay it's about fair pricing for the job and parts.

3 other well-established shops in the same area (probably with similar or the same parts suppliers) quoted $200 for the same $490 job this place wanted to do. This example has less to do with "making a living" and more to do with gouging the customer. I don't care how you look at it, $168 bux for a $30-$50 set of plug wires is ridiculous. The best thing to come out of today's rip off, is that my friend will NEVER go there again and always see what she'll be paying for before she signs off on a job.

/rant.

Stacey

[Jer]

That is a ridiculous mark-up on parts, even though shops do have to do a mark-up to survive. I've done a few tune-ups on trackers and sidekicks (same thing), and if I remember correctly, it only take about a half hour. Belt adjustment is a can of corn, too. The Tech college I went to did repairs for people off the street for no labor. They had to buy their own parts and some food for the person doing the work, if they wanted to be nice. Not all mechanics are evil though, not all of us want to double the price on a ticket just because we have a customer that doesn't know cars. Hell, those are our customers, and we need them!

-jeremy

[squirrel]

Ok, you win....

[53_210]

Is that $490 for the job? Or $490 for the parts? Labour and taxes add up pretty damn quickly. I forget what we were working on in the shop the other day, but a set of plug wires, (for "better" ones) was just over $200.

[burger]

If you don't know how to (or aren't married to someone who knows how to):

- new fuel filter (seems like that shouldn't have been optional)
- plugs (hers were fine but he didn't like the "brand")
- wiper blades
- distributor cap
- distributor rotor
- air filter

you should be prepared to take it up the ass for the rest of your life.

That's the cost of NOT MAINTAINING YOUR OWN VEHICLE.

I don't blame mechanics. I would pay thier price if I couldn't do the work myself because it will save money in the long run as opposed to running your car into the ground.




Ed

[zman]

[ QUOTE ]
Is that $490 for the job? Or $490 for the parts? Labour and taxes add up pretty damn quickly. I forget what we were working on in the shop the other day, but a set of plug wires, (for "better" ones) was just over $200.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is that $200 canadian? I can get a great set of wires all day every day for $79. Great plug wires.... (http://store.summitracing.com/default.asp?target=eproduct.asp&N=120+301082)

[The Anarkist]

Even here in Canada she has a point!! And as for what he'd charge a guy? I agree with the people who said the same. Seems most guys are pretty stupid about cars too. Even the ones that work in the Auto industry!! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

I work around various dealers and most of the employees couldn't do their own work if their lives depended on it!! Then the customers wonder why they get the wrong parts. I don't!!

[tomslik]

- new fuel filter (seems like that shouldn't have been optional)

how many miles on the craper,uh tracker?
efi or carb?some of those get pretty pricy.

- plugs (hers were fine but he didn't like the "brand")

probably champions or bosch platinums;)


- wiper blades
that'sd be obvious

- distributor cap

maybe

- distributor rotor

i'd replace it if it needs a tune anyway, bad plug wires seem to like to kill rotors.

- air filter

does it need one?


btw, gracie, i see we agree on something;)
Kia spurtages are way worse, though.
triple time?;)


170 bucks for plug wires though, kinda high but maybe not.
sometimes ya just can't use "fitall" crap...
anybody use napaonline?

[34Hupmobile]

I'm sure some of you will disagree with me about this statement but...
In my experience any shop that uses a flat rate book for pricing instead of actual time plus materials is going to rip you off. I believe those books are really generous as far as time goes. If the book says the job will take 3 hours that means 3 hours done by a organ grinder's monkey using only a butterknife and a pair of plastic pliers. I've found that the typical 3hr. by the book job will actually take around 45min-1hr by a novice with rudimentary skills armed with a manual. Perhaps the flat rate books take into account time spent answering the phone, coffee breaks, talking to other customers, planning vacations and telling fish stories to other mechanics. Perhaps the book takes into account the cost of tooling the shop with the items needed for specialty jobs. The hourly rate charged should be reasonable. I don't mind paying someone with 20 years experience considerably more than a kid fresh out of high school. Chances are the old-timer will get the job done faster with fewer mistakes but new mechanics have to come from somewhere. So then hourly rates should be adjusted with experience. That doesn't make it right to charge $55+ per hour for that fresh kid just because he's working in the old-timer's shop.

[tomslik]

so, you're telling me that the 80K i've got invested in tools to make the job go faster so i can make more money on commission is going to make me less by your way of doing things.
what's wrong with THAT picture?

[Dakota]

Tomslik, i think the point of this is the fact that she was obviously being taken advantage of. If you the kind of mechanic that thinks its ok to do this to people that done know any better, piss on ya.

Its not about you not making a living, its you thinking its ok to rip people off, to make that living. No better than scam artists, making people replace stuff that dosent need it.

[Tackett]

I just did all that, as well as cam seal, valve adjustment, valve cover gasket, and a lot more on a Tracker (or Dirt Squirrel).

I paid $100 for parts (plugs, wires, cap, rotor, fuel filter, oil filter, gaskets...) and got them at my brother's cost (he's a mechanic). All of it was good, name brand stuff. In my case, a 100% markup would have been slightly more than a set of your friend's plug wires.

Your friend got dicked.

And for a small, disposable commuter, the Tracker/Sidekick isn't too bad. It cost me $62 to fill my truck yesterday, but I can drive the Tracker all week for less than $20.

[Fraz]

It's good to be friends with a local mechanic and his shop. He hooks me up with shop usage when I need to work on the Byooik or one of the family vehicles, and I help him out with computer stuff.

Which reminds me, I gotta get on his case about my little brother's truck....

[tomslik]

dakota, that was directed at 34 hupp but let me ask both of you this;
what do you do for a living?
how much money do you HAVE to lay out for tools?
clothes do NOT count unless you're a stripper,etc.

btw, napainline sez 61 bucks for the "best" plug wires.
also, how do YOU know it(the tracker)doesn't need it?

[Dakota]

Tomslik, I am a machinest by trade, i am sure my tooling collection per piece cost 3x as much as yours did.

Dont tell me that you cant make a living by not ripping people off. I have never argued Labor prices, but telling people they need stuff just so you can score on the commission when they dont actually need it is complete bullshit.

[Dakota]

And another thing, with you bitching so much about not being able to make it, maybe you should look into another job/career eh?

[34Hupmobile]

Tomslik
I'm not saying that you shouldn't be able to recover the cost of tooling up for a job. What I am saying is that the cost should be spread out over several years time. That's called depreciation. Thge cost of doing business. A 25 year old ratchet works just like a brand new one. If you feel the need to charge each customer the replacement cost for each tool used then that customer should go home with a new and full toolbox. Otherwise they are getting ripped off. As for my business, I make clothes. I have around $600K in my tools. 350 sewing machines, embroidery machines, cutting machines and tables. I employ 140 people and in order to stay in business I have to have a competitive prices. I can't jack up the price of a garment because I have to use a different color button than I have in stock. While most textile products are now made overseas and domestic plants are shutting down we are expanding. Mainly because we can offer quick delivery and a made in USA label. I have to pay my employees well but newbies make less than experienced operators. Prices are set by time plus materials multiplied by a factor. Time is a constant. Everyone measures it the same way. A machine will only run so fast and so a seam of x length is not possible to do faster. I realize repairs have no such constant especially when mechanics are distracted by one thing or another, be it lending a hand to another or shooting the breeze. Sure I'd like to sell a shirt for $50 but I can't justify it.

[tomslik]

so you're saying that there's no such thing as a 50 dollar shirt?

bullshit!
ain't NO shirt worth $50


if there was a faster machine that makes whatever, you wouldn't take advantage of that?
no?
you're lying!

you guys need to get a grip, we're not doing repairs as a hobby, it's bread and butter.
ever seen a rich mechanic?
i haven't.

i haven't seen a rich machinist, either, but i've sure been fucked by a few.
you smart fuckers seem to know EXACTLY what we do...

[tomslik]

who said that?

[Fatchuk]

This is a bit of a hornets nest..eh.. Stacy is pretty dead right that her friend was abused "if that"s what happened and I have no reason not to believe her"...but in most cases the mechanic doing the work is not the same guy doing the selling or making out the invoice and I'm pretty sure that if they charged that much for a set of wires and she can get a OEM set for the price she quoted I would be taking her dad or brother or somebody back with me to talk to the owner for a explanation of the charges... or contacting the better business beureau because most of "us mechanics who work in this trade are honest" I have been licensed and run my own shop and have for more than twenty five years with very few complaints and most of the troubles I get come from assholes who have attempted their own repairs and screwed the job up "and" then expect me to save their ass for chump change...and the guy that says his dad or whatever that needs a tune every two years for $300 is getting ripped off...well asshole you don't know diddley-squat about what it cost to service and maintain a vechicle nowadays...I have well over $100,000 thousand invested in tools, training, and special equipment continual upgrading of my education and tools and electronic equipment not to mention insurance, hydro, phone, coverals, shop supplies , waste disposal, rags, contracts to dispose of hazardous materials, taxes,lawyers to collect money from crooks who try to steal from me by not living up to credit arrangements they made...fucking lowlifes.. and the list goes on , plus I spent 25 to 35 years learning my trade and you assholes think I should work for nothing ...many of you who have responded to this thread don't know shit from rubber,, not all ...but lots of you are brainless and just like to run off at the mouth so you can feel big in your little world ...From what Stacy said "I do think her friend was ripped off".... and I would go back and take my complaint to owner /manager...to the rest of you that don't know shit about maintaining a car go get a fucking life and do the rest of us a favor... And don't lump all mechanics as being theifs and dirtbags ..I have been doing this most of my life and quite frankly I'm sick of all you asshole"s who can't even change a Goddamn tire,, running off at the mouth like you know it all ..you don't know fuck....most mechanics are hard working decent people trying to make a living and feed their family and have a few bucks in their pocket to play....we are not crooks and I'm sick of you assholes trying to tar us with some fucking story you heard or made up...I sit on the other side of the fence and there a large number of asshole"s just like you who think you fucking know it all.... I have to deal people just like you who always fucking whine about everything and try to get out of paying the bill. I treat my customers fair and honest ,I do a good job , I do not want coble up some old peice of shit that shouldn't be on the road in the first place especially with a fucking brain dead know it all..but you are the same asshole who always want a favor or some free advice.... if you got a problem deal with with the owner .fatchuk

[tomslik]

"Tomslik, I am a machinest by trade, i am sure my tooling collection per piece cost 3x as much as yours did."

more like we're about even up

"Dont tell me that you cant make a living by not ripping people off."

never said that

"I have never argued Labor prices, but telling people they need stuff just so you can score on the commission when they dont actually need it is complete bullshit"

i don't make dick on parts, shop does(and it ain't my shop), but I don't and we're not pressured to sell shit that people don't need.



lemme ask you this, did you ask how much it cost to make a reamer?

how about your lathes/mills/new fucking car/computer/whatever?

did you ask how fast they built it?
how about the oil/gas you use?
did you ask?
how about lawyers,doctors,dentist's,cpa's,organ grinders,the stripper you tipped last night, yop get the idea yet?
seems like ya pick on mechanics,'cause they're fair game.

there's plenty of people cheating you every day but YOU don't question it!
i guess because it's something you THINK you can do yourself,it's a ripoff.
wait'll you have REAL problems and that mechanic turns his/her back on you because you think ALL mechanics are out to screw you.
sure, there's a lot of theives out there that i wouldn't let change my washer fluid much less anything important, they're usually the one's that aren't very busy,cheap, and very few return customers.
got a question about whether the shop is reputible?
ask around ahead of time.
don't shop price, it ain't always "cheaper"


next!

[CalifCarl]

You guys that work in this field shouldn't be getting huffy. You know and we know there are guys out there ripping people off. Day after day. Unfornate, those guys are the assholes that have ruined for you and your business. It only takes one bad apple! Is this case thousands of them.

I can do 90% of my own work, but when the time comes to get work done it's real hard to trust anyone. Sorry if that upsets you, but that's just the way it is.

[mr57]

A few years ago, my wife and I were on holidays in Calgary. The alternator seized up on me on one of the busiest streets in Calgary. I herded our squealing 88 Safari into a brand new GM dealership. They drive you through some sort of service bay where some goomba assesses the problem. This genius tells me I need a new alternator. I head to the parts counter and they don't have the correct one in stock. They do have the most expensive one they make in stock with enough output to power DisneyWorld which they graciuosly offer to sell me for $185, plus core. They quote me 2 hours shop time at ONLY $72 an hour to change it. I took the alternator, changed it myself - our van didn't have air and it ended up being 15 minutes of my inept time. They weren't going to let me leave since I was already in their building. I did some yelling and screaming until the manager came over and asked the problem. Let's see, $185 for a $120 alternator, $144 labor for 15 minutes work, and to top it all off, my free and clear VISA came up as NFG on their machine, and the bitch in finance cut it up in front of me. That was the last straw. I paid for the alternator in cash, and demanded my vehicle back. The service manager said I couldn't leave without the alternator being changed. After I pointed out to him, and showed him I got let out. In this case it wasn't the mechanic's fault, since no mechanic got near the van.

Where I live the two mechanics I deal with are both my friends. I get my parts at cost or cost plus 5%, and the charges are discussed and put on paper before any work is authorized. and neither go by flat rate. I get charged $10-5 dollars below shop rate, and I send any and all business I can to both of them.
I like where I live and the big city dealerships with their polished service entrances and $85/hr flat rate can go to hell. Sorry for the rant. I feel much better now http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[zman]

I've got a friend who owns a local garage. He is very fair, doesn't charge book, does actual time and doesn't over inflate his parts prices. he makes a good living and has more business than he knows what to do with. I send everyone I can to him. There are a bunch of other shops on the same street. Doesn't seem to be near as many cars in their lots. It seems that friendly and fair wins out for everyone...

[tomslik]

and just what the heck do YOU do for a living?
how about i take THAT little bit of info and run my mouth off about it?
actually, it's assholes in general that ruin it.

"I can do 90% of my own work, but when the time comes to get work done it's real hard to trust anyone. Sorry if that upsets you, but that's just the way it is."

got the same problem.
doesn't matter, computers,home repairs,machine shops,etc.
ya can't trust anybody anymore and nobodys word is worth anything and yeah, it upsets me because some of you jokers seem to paint every body with the same brush

[Fatchuk]

If you can change an alternator on a Sarfari van in 15 min I'll eat your floormat ..that's exactly the kind of bullshit exageration that starts these storys...fatchuk

[tomslik]

he DID say "no a/c".....
with ac it's a whole nuther matter..

[Fatchuk]

maybe when he's having a heart attack he'll be glad to wait till his backyard buddy can stick a $2.00 battery pack in the pace maker cause he thinks the hospital one will power disneyland and their just rippin him off...fatchuk

[tomslik]

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

'course we've been having problems with "good" parts http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

[53_210]

The whole point of this was saying that you can save alot of money by working on your own car. And it's true. I work in a little shop that's just my friend and I. Some jobs we charge by the book, some we don't. I find that it's pretty fair with the time it gives, sometimes it's well over what you need, and there's been a few times when it's way under what I could see it being done for. I'm not saying it's right by any means, but really, who's fault is it that she got ripped off? Maybe this will make he open a book and learn to change her own spark plugs.

[Jeff Norwell]

In some cases women get ripped off and the short end of the stick....not all shops are this nefarious...but some are......case in point....waaaay back my mom stopped for gas and the "attendant" asked to check her oil.....well, when he was done she had a $200.00 bill for alot of nothing!
wipers,fuses,rad cap etc,etc.....It was real easy for this gas jockey to ripp-off an 40 year-old women....so my dad and a few highschool buddys go over to the shop at closing time and confront the "attendant"...turns out it was his old mans gas station and he was making some extra bucks for his Satuday nights.
After some gentle persausion..we got moms money back.

[mr57]

Fifteen minutes in a plain jane NO A/C Safari van. Twenty at the outside. I have a well stocked toolbox with me whenever I travel. You think I'm kidding? I don't BS, buddy. Took me longer arguing with the service manager.

[Jer]

There's a few things in regards to us "crooks" that I would like to bring up. I'm not going to act like I am the most experienced, the best, or anything along those lines. I've been at the independant shop that I work at now for roughly 2 1/2 years, and just recently finished my apprenticeship and moved onto book hours. From what I've been told by teachers and fellow mechanics, book hours are created after the car is built by a mechanic that works for said company. They do the job on a BRAND NEW car 3 or 4 times and they average the amount of time it takes them. This means someone else screwing with it, rust, seized bolts, etc does not count. Where I'm at, rust and other people trying it first is a big issue. Book hours are good and bad from my little experience, good because the customers are paying for your knowledge to diagnose and fix their car, and if you have done a certain job 10 times and know a shortcut to get a 2 hour job done in 1, that is your experience and knowledge, it should get paid for otherwise you're giving it away. Bad because things don't ever go as planned, other stuff breaks, one leak is hiding another, etc. Customers don't like hearing there is more wrong with their car than was originally planned, but it happens. The choice of parts, quality of parts, and markup is not up to the mechanic. I have no say in what we use or charge, I just diagnose and repair which is what I went to school for. I'm not trying to upset anybody, and if I'm wrong, please tell me, I'm not perfect.

-jeremy

[Fatchuk]

Well I'm ganna say yer full o shit....if you do the work safely and correctly you can't do it...Look lets be honest ..you work in the shop for me ...I give you a work order to bring a Sarfi van in and install a new serp belt, and your gonna tell me you got the job done and the customers van is waiting for him .in 15 min...your full of shit I been in this game to long ....I see you guys run off at the mouth all the time with sloopy half assed work ..you wouldn't last a day for me with doing work like that ..I want a tech that does a good job and works safely and respects my customers car ...I also don't expect my tech to run or work like a race car driver all day every day...and I pay him well for his skill and knowledge, and his tools...so $80.00 dollars an hr is not out of line,,,,15 min your full of shit.......that's my story and I'm sticking to it....after 25 years in this business I think I know what I'm talking about....fatchuk

[mr57]

Listen Fatfuck. Have you ever been under the hood and doghouse of a Safari without air conditioning? Two piece shroud that had been apart before. No staples any more. four easily accessed bolts. The doghouse - two clamps and two bolts. The alternator is right there. The most time consuming part is the belt, I admit. If it takes you, or anybody else "with xxx years of experience" for that matter, more than 5 minutes to wind a serpentine belt on a non a/c van, go back to school. I know what I did. And I don't do sloppy or shoddy work.

Maybe you should eat my floormat, sounds like you could use a bit more fibre in your diet http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

My point being here, the girl got ripped off, plain and simple. The dealership in Calgary tried to rip me off when all I needed was a 65 amp alternator, not the 105 or 115 or whatever it was that was 'the only one we have in stock'. You have to be careful out there. Maybe I am just lucky I live where I do.