Need flathead help now cos I'm retarded.

[SwitchBlade327]

ok, had to put a new battery in her, now she starts up strong, and runs fine until I start getting a littl ebit of speed, then the motor starts skipping, the exhaust is popping and she just don't wanna damn go.
Where do I start with these things, what's the common culprit.
Never dealt with points before, never dealt with a flathead before, so explain it to me like you would someone with down syndrome.... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[Petejoe]

Usually an exhaust pop is attributed to a vacumm leak somewhere. Get yourself some liquid soap and check your intake/carb area along with the vacumm lines and fittings. Have you changed anything on the engine??

[Bruce Lancaster]

could MAYBE be a fuel problem.
A quick check to see if this is a lean condition: pull out choke as problem begins to richen. If it picks back up some, that's an answer.

[SwitchBlade327]

haven't changed nuthin'. only had the thing for a couple of hours really. But i need to pratice my 3 on the tree skills and I can't when it don't wanna go! Could the wrong jet size in the carb cause any of this? I already called all the stores around and no one has any jets in stock. The carb is setup for a higher elevation than I'm at....

[Flat Ernie]

I had a similar situation with a loose coil wire. If you're running 6V still, check all your wires & connections - particularly in the ignition circuit.

Otherwise, vacuum leak is a likely culprit as pointed out.

Could be condensor if you're running points.

Lots of possibilities - more details please (engine, car, electrical system, etc)

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[SwitchBlade327]

I fiddled with the choke some when i was limping it home after the battery change, didn't seem to make a difference. It runs and sounds awesome at idle.....No one around here has any info on flatheads either, I've called everyone i know....
engine is a 53 flattie w/3 94's (only running off center carb)
stock points and all...
still on 6 volt+

[Petejoe]

The 94's may also have a plugged jet or the power valves could be shot if the engine backfired through the carbs.
Sounds more like an intake/carb problem than anything else.

[Bruce Lancaster]

I'm immediatel suspicious of the inop extra carbs--be REAL sure they aren't letting in air.

[Deyomatic]

I've also heard popping from the exhaust when there is a pinhole leak in the exhaust. I would bet money that your problem is in the distributor, be it condensor, points, or even just a bad connection. It might not hurt to change the fuel filter, also.
Good luck.

[SwitchBlade327]

heres a pic of the engine....gonna go grab some carb cleaner and see if we can find some leaks, something could've came loose during shipping maybe...carbs always give me a bunch of shit.

[Pist-n-Broke]

My first question would be, did it ever run good since you have had it? If you know nothing about the motor you might want to check it out and make sure you have a good one. What you are describing could be one of many things or a combination of several. First thing I'd do with it is check compresion. Providing it's good move on to ign. Once you are satisfyed it's in good shape go to fuel and vacumn. Shooting in the dark will seldom get you anywhere but spent time and money. Start with the basic stuff and go from there.
The Wizzard

[flatshoebox]

HOW ARE THE CARBS BLOCKED OFF??
WHAT TYPE OF MANIFOLD IS IT?

HOW DID YOU HOOK UP THE BATTERY?? +ground 6volt? 12 volt?

Did you bump the Dist. at all??

Flatheads always run fine at 800rpms, it seems, even if the timing off a little. but 1200-2500 thats seems to be the problem area?

[SwitchBlade327]

haven't done anything to the distibutor, i JUST got the car today from a fellow hamber. It's a sharp tri-power intake. The battery is hooked up right, it starts up stong and idles good, revving it in the driveway it sounds fine, but take it up the raod and it's a totally different story.
Checked for vaccuum and air leaks and didn't find anything. I guess I should move onto distributor parts next? Vacuum advance, condenser?

[blown49]

Check the plugs. If they're Champions throw them away and replace with a set of Auto Lite 216's. There's been a problem with the Champion plugs lately in the flatheads. Don't know what but I had your identical problem this spring with my flattie after sitting all winter. I originally thought it was the gas but after a fill-up and 25-30 miles it didn't get any better. Friend told me to go with Auto Lites and that solved the problem.

Hope this helps,

Jim

[Bugman]

Timing off or points bounce maybe?

[SwitchBlade327]

it's got autolites in it...Guess it's time to start fiddling with the electrics. Just hope I don't make matters worse...

[Zodoff]

If it has been standing still for awhile,give the points some tender love with some finegrit paper.
Also check if the fuelpumpmembran has dryed out some.. (just pop the top,rub some fuel on it,and put it together again..) Good luck!
(you shouldnt drive with downs? ) http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Flat Ernie]

[ QUOTE ]
The battery is hooked up right, it starts up stong and idles good, revving it in the driveway it sounds fine, but take it up the raod and it's a totally different story.


[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmm...odd. Misfire under load points more to the vacuum leak side of it to me, but could still be in the ignition. How are the carbs blocked off?

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[SwitchBlade327]

no idea how the carbs are blocked off, but I'm pretty sure they aren't leaking vacuum cos when I doused em with carb cleaner I got no reaction (even if i sprayed it right into the aircleaners).

[Pist-n-Broke]

Take a close look at the points. You'll be surprised how much trouble pitted or burnt points can cause. The other thought is, since you just bought it, why not call the previous owner and ask his advice. It might be something he is very familuer with.
The Wizzard

[SwitchBlade327]

I sent him a couple of pm's but i got no response, he won't be at a computer again until tomorrow anyway, all my long distance calling is used up for a little bit so I'll have to wait or figure it out. Gonna check out the points and stuff, gonna try to go grab another set of plugs too since I dont' know how long these have been in it or anything.

[Crestliner]

Take the vacumm hose off the carb. and cap off the dizzy. Suck on the hose to make sure the advance is working.

[SwitchBlade327]

any flathead guys still up that I can call and let you hear this thing? I changed the points, rotor button, and condensor and it's doing the same shit. I checked out the outer carbs and I'm pretty damn sure they're not sucking air or leaking vacuum.
I've been fucking with this thing since early afternoon and I'm still NOWHERE.....

[cheaterjack]

check your fuel lines... Do you have any in-line filters. You may be sucking stuff up from the tank or clogged lines. I have the same problem

[pigpen]

I had the same problem with the 8BA in my '41. It turned out thet the brand new one wire chrome alternator wasn't putting out. The battery was down to 10 volts. It ran fine at idle but when loaded a little it would miss. The stock ammeter won't tell you much; a voltmeter works much better. Even after two years, Speedway replaced the alternator, no questions asked. Works good; lasts a long time.


pigpen




Flathead? That's an indian tribe, right?

[SwitchBlade327]

hmm...I've got a voltmeter, and if the generator is acting up then that would explain the dead optima battery this afternoon. How the hell do I check that though? I've got one of them fancy ass testers.
I'm still thinking it's something more to do with the carbs/ignition, but I'm willing to try anythign at this point.

[Rocky]

I composed this award winning answer to your question last night that took up about 14 paragraphs and could have be in contention for this year's pulitzer prize. It was pure harmony in print. I was just sure I hit the "continue" button but I don't see it here tonight. One of the things to check was your charge rate. Very important. If you don't got no 'lectricity in your battery, your sparkem plugs won't spark when they have a heavy load on 'em...
But it's all hindsight now..

[pigpen]

The voltmeter should read about 14V when the car is running and and 12V when it's not with no loads other than the ignition, with the key on. Lights on, not running, it will go down to about 10-11V. A dead battery is extremely suspect. Either it's not getting charged or not taking a charge. One trouble shooting method is to substitute one part at a time and re-check each time. Frustrating!


pigpen

[SwitchBlade327]

it's still running on 6 volt+, and I just put a good battery in this afternoon.

[F1James]

Try this wont cost nothing but a little time.Take gas line off at fuelpump intake line and with gas cap off blow through the line.If it clear should be fairly easy to blow through sometimes a rust turd will restrict gas flow and cause the thing you describ.Also if you have a gas filter replace it.

[Petejoe]

If you don't find any problems with your Generator. I would again check for Vacuum leakage. Took me three weeks to find mine one time. I went through the same scenerio. You may consider popping off your carbs and intake and resealing everything. Three carbs and only one being used... I too would suspect the dummy carbs not being sealed off. Drives ya nuts huh?? You're now just starting in the (why in the hell did I buy a flathead) mode...... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Be patient you'll find it.. Like I said..took me three weeks resealing shit. After finally going over things a million times. I wonder how the mechanics back in the day ever made Labor Rates http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[pigpen]

I agree with Petejoe. Also; if you are still 6v pos. ground, is the coil still 6v? Maybe changed for a 12v by mistake? A foolproof test for the possible leaking end carbs would be to take them off and substitute block off plates. Also; there is a ballast resistor under the dash. Is it good? Is it the right one? Also. What kind of reading are you getting from the plugs? Black soot, white, red/brown, oily black, etc? Fuel pressure 2-3 lb? No trash in the fuel or carb? Timing on the dot with vacuum disconected; 4 deg. BTDC at idle w/ vacuum hooked up? (A Mallory dual point with no vacuum advance only mechanical advance works best). Isn't trouble shooting fun! When you find the problem and fix it on your own you'll feel like you just got laid!


pigpen


Well we got trouble! Right here in River City! With a capital T and that rhymes with P and that stands for.........(Sound of Music)

[flatshoebox]

[ QUOTE ]
Fuel pressure 2-3 lb?

[/ QUOTE ]

pigpen, brings up a good point. Are you running a stock fuel pump? If your runnin and electric pump, even with a regulator, I have seen them increase pressure to 7-8 at higher rpms. Stock pumps even with a duel or triple setup have always worked better for me.
If your runnin an electric pump hook up pressure gauge WHERE YOU CAN SEE IT WHEN YOU DRIVE for a test and see where your psi is..1-2 or 3 psi at the most..

Where those carbs always set to run on one?.. Dose a sharp manifold allow you to run on one? or would it be better if you blocked off the center and ran duels?

[Ichoptop]

OK, I ran that car for 4 years without any problems so I am pretty sure it is not the car but the operator ( no offense) Make sure the choke is all the way in and not sticking. It has a tendancy to do it every now and then. Check the plugs and replace or clean if necessary. I ran her about 50 miles the day she went on the trailer and there is no way she has a miss. Make sure the choke knob on the dash is all the way in and the cable isnt binding. If it is binding take the cable out and spray it with some graphite. You might want to back the idle and air/fuel mixture screws off a half a turn due to the change in alltitude. Dont mess with anything else...I know it runs fine. If you still have problems call me this weekend when you can let me listen to what it is doing.

[Mr 42]

I would check the color of the spark, it must be blue.
And preferable "fat" but on 6V you can be glad if its blue.
What type of coil are you running, original?
The original coils are old and prone to brake.
Could have happened when you changed the battery.

Some weeks ago my friends 42 started to missbehave, running good att idle but when you put the pedal toward's the metal it was sputtering and jumping. The spark was blue actually!
But after some investigation the coil was the only thing left.
Since i didnt have a 6V coil i took a 12Vcoil and put a 12v battery at the passenger floor and connected the + to ground and the - post on the battery to the coil. And it worked perfectly. so then we got a new 6Volt coil from a VW (i know i shouldnt mention vw on this board so don't spam me http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif )
Problem solved http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[SwitchBlade327]

picked up new plugs, so I'm gonna pull the olds ones and check em, then replace them before I try anything else. Then I'll try another coil. I noticed the sticky choke so that hasn't been an issue....no one thinks the elevation change might be part of the problem? I'll report back after I change the plugs and stuff....

[surf monkey]

firstly i`m not an expert when it comes to fixing motors...far from it...but the problems your getting are exactly the same as i was getting with my t...my t`s running a four banger not a v8 but hear me out anyway.....the motor would idle no problem at all but soon as i set off it started spluttering , cutting out...turn it off let idle away we go again same problem.....back in my garage i stripped down the fuel filter...pump and carb still had the same problem.....talking to a mate at work ...he said electrical.....he told me to put it in the garage and starting with one plug, remove it from the head but leave it connected to the ht lead...lay it on the engine and after turning out the lights ( do this at nite)turn the engine over...he said if there are any `leaks` in the electrical system it will light up the garage like a christmas tree...keep trying until you`ve done all the plugs.....went home did as he said...on the second plug it lit up.....problem distributor cap...cracked.....changed it , car run fine......dont ask me why it only did it on the second plug but it did.....just something else to try

cheers non technical monkey

[SwitchBlade327]

the plugs were black as a turd, so she's running rich, fiddled witht he adjustment screws some, fired her up. She's idling quieter now but I haven't tried to take her up the road yet....

[oldspeed]

Black plugs can come from weak electrical spark. If the motor fires up and runs at idle but runs like crap when you gas it or under a load it's most likely ignition. A condensor a bad one that is will cause this problem, so will incorrect gap on the points. Condensors are cheap, try a different one before you go any farther. If you check the point gap use wire gages not flat feeler stock wire is far more accurate. The above post about a cracked dist. cap would cause the same issue as well. My guess is electrical.

[sedan_dad]

I had the same shit happening on my 59ab .It turned out to be the condenser.
4 bucks at NAPA.

[SwitchBlade327]

ok, after changing the plugs, rotor button, points, and fiddling with the carb adjustment screws it seems to be ALOT better, don't know what part or combination of stuff helped. It's still running rich though, so I need to get that fixed before it blackens the shit out of these new plugs.
I know holley jets have been the same for a LONG time, I've got a 4 barrel laying around, what are the chances these jets might work better for me? I have to take the thing apart to see what size they are, but they would fit right?

[Flat Ernie]

OK - Ichoptop mentioned an altitude diff - if you're running rich, it could be the altitude difference (was he at a lower alt than you are?) - you can screw in idle adjustments a little, but if you're going in more than 1/2 turn, you have other issues (assuming the car was running well for ichoptop!)

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Andy]

Have you run it with the aircleaner off? Try it and also look to make sure the choke is wide open. Black plugs means it is firing and the mixture is rich. Just find why the mixture is rich.

[luckystiff]

the car came from the mountains of colorado to flat ass north carolina. jetting is still probably one of his problems. sounds like there may still be another few small ones to. change the condenser for one its cheap and if it don't do shit your only out a few bucks right. someone else remembered ballast resistor to. i tried calling greg for you twice but have yet to get up with him. he works even more than me so it's hard sometimes. i'm gonna try again soon. just getting to where i can talk and not spit blood all over the place...ken....

[tommy]

If it still has the paper filter element that came with those air cleaners, that could make it run rich. They are notorious for poor air flow.

[oldspeed]

OK let's take the aircleaner off and see if that leans it out some.

[pigpen]

Will you post the final outcome and what actually fixed the problem? Thanks.

pigpen


"Velly interestink" (Artie Johnson, Laugh In)

[SwitchBlade327]

The aircleaner looks good, I drove it to work today without a whole lot of problems besides me and the clutch not getting along (been awhie since I had a stick shift, and never had a 3 on the tree). I can't seem to get the hang of first. It's definately still running rich, haven't had time today to play with the carb any. Think I'm definately gonna have to re-jet....
The exhaust still pops a little and i felt a few small shudders on the way home, but theres definate improvement.

[pigpen]

First is not synchro in the older three speeds. You have to come to a complete stop to go to first without grinding; same with reverse. The exaust pop can be a burned valve. (Or a crossed pair of plug wires but it would run really badly in that case).Lots of work to fix but it's only a hobby, right.


Good luck, pigpen

[Flat Ernie]

[ QUOTE ]
First is not synchro in the older three speeds. You have to come to a complete stop to go to first without grinding;

[/ QUOTE ]

You can learn to double-clutch first so you can downshift on the move...takes some getting used to, but it is nearly a lost art.

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[50 Flord]

Can you explain this "double clutchin" for some of use younger, pimpled faced punks? I would like to learn, for I also have a 3 speed. (Double Clutchin' 101!)

[SwitchBlade327]

I know you can't go back into first without being at a complete stop, I wa saying the clutch is giving me hell going from a complete stop back to going forward again. Reverse is easy, and everything after 1st is easy, but first wants to choke down on me alot.

[Flat Ernie]

[ QUOTE ]
I know you can't go back into first without being at a complete stop, I wa saying the clutch is giving me hell going from a complete stop back to going forward again.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh don't limit yerself! Yes you can go into first w/o being at a complete stop by double-clutching. It will even help some for that "stiffness" at a stop.

[ QUOTE ]
Can you explain this "double clutchin" for some of use younger, pimpled faced punks?

[/ QUOTE ]

I used to double-clutch my T5 when 3rd synchro took a shit - limped along like that for a year! (what I get for using a NWC 6cyl T5 behind a stroked 351W!).

1. Step on clutch pedal
2. Put shifter in Neutral
3. Let up on clutch pedal
4. Step on clutch pedal
5. Blip throttle & put shifter in gear

When you get good at this, you'll be able to downshift quickly to 1st w/o coming to a complete stop.

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