VWs at Billetproof........?

[KIRK!]

OK, OK already. Quit hijacking people's posts with the VW bullshit. Just enjoy the pics people are nice enough to post. Lets yell about it here, in one post.

First of all I personally have never owned or been a fan of VWs but I don't mind checking them out when they are around especially when someone does something that's different from the "traditional" Cal-look. Plus I know a TON of current hot rodders who were bug guys in their younger days.

Second, foreign cars have always been at Billetproof and this is the first time I've heard anyone cry about it. That being said, I think the VW guys here are crying about it too. I agree with the statement that the VW guys try to cram them down people's throats. Lighten up Francis!

At Billetproof the traditional american hotrodders are the majority in cars and in voice. We used to be the misfits. Billetproof was created for the misfits. Now the lunatics are running he asylum. The show has grown and more than just our little click want to enjoy what we traditional guys have always enjoyed. Sucks but its true. If one side can't just hang out and look at what they like and the other can't stop trying to act like the rest of us "just don't get the VWs", don't come to the show.

I swore to myself I wouldn't listen to any whining this year about anything. Now look what you made me do. Fuck you guys.

Unfortunate facts:

1. There will always be a very small percentage of the "wrong" car at Billetproof. Try working the gates for even five minutes and you'll get a clue about how hard it is. Big Dirty turned away like 30 cars on his own this year.

2. Some of you will complan NO MATTER WHAT.

3. Bugs are bugs. You guys are definitely making some innovative incarnations but they're still bugs not classic hot rods. Quit feeling inadequate about that fact and do what you do without forcing it on others or we will instate an 'American cars only' rule.

Fuck this place sucks sometimes. I had such a great weekend. Shit.

[Slide]

[ QUOTE ]

2. Some of you will complan NO MATTER WHAT.


[/ QUOTE ]

That pretty much sums it up right there.

[gears-n-grease]

you'll love this article- http://www.vwtrendsweb.com/features/0405vwt_hotrod/

[**DONOTDELETE**]

guys that think VW's are hotrods, are like chicks that think it's cool to be fat.

here's a tip, you started that show as traditional only and now it's go along-get along..... look within young Skywalker.

most chicks want to dance on stage, but I only pay to see the hot ones. If you want a world class strip joint you gotta turn the fat ones around at the door brother. I'm sorry if that sounds complicated.

[fordnutz]

Kirk, I understand your problem with turning cars away. Period correct cars, what does that mean? I don't understand how a 60 chev 4-door and cars like that are old school. If you drove a car like that in the day it wasn't considered cool. It was your dad's car. No offense to anyone here. There are cool cars and they weren't them. Sure, some guys may have had a nosed and decked one, but for the most part, they didn't fit in. As for Vw's, I never have owned one, but this new fenderless trend isn't much different than using a bantam or fiat topolino body. Do they belong there at Billetproof, I suppose as much as a 59 ford 4-door. Don't forget, back in the day, all of the late fifties early sixties cars were new or almost new. Tough decision on whether to let them in or not. This is not meant to slam anyone, just my 2 cents. Nutz.

[dixiedog]

[ QUOTE ]
most chicks want to dance on stage, but I only pay to see the hot ones.



[/ QUOTE ]

HAHAHAHAHA - very true!

[Tiny]

Man I just what to see someone go off with one of these "ratbugs". You know flip the trans and do a mid engine built flathead. Any way that is what I keep telling my VW buddy to do. Remember what the gold chainers used to think of us? Lets try and not be to eliteist OK?
Tiny

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I'm ok with eliteist.

['Flyin' Dutchman']

[ QUOTE ]
you'll love this article- http://www.vwtrendsweb.com/features/0405vwt_hotrod/

[/ QUOTE ]



Damn... And they include my buddies RPU in the story... He'll not be happy... he hates VeeDubs. He was always bummed out when he had to work in the Moon booth at a VW show.

http://www.vwtrendsweb.com/features/0405vwt_hotrod05_z.jpg

[slammed]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm ok with eliteist.

[/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ]


[/ QUOTE ] So much for turning a 'new leaf'.

[CherryBlossom]

If ya'll start crying at the same time, pretty soon I'll be able to float my boat on it.

[hankcash]

i like jettas

[CURIOUS RASH]

<font color="green">Jettas rock.

Hank is a closet Dubber.

The only problem I have with VW's is the fact that there is a number of owners who seem to own them just to try and piss people off with them.

I don't get it.

Used to be all owned by hippies and people looking for just cheap transport and now they're being snatched up by loud mouth jerkwads that just want to show up where they know it will start some shit.

Whatever floats your boat I suppose.

</font>

[**DONOTDELETE**]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm ok with eliteist.

[/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ]


[/ QUOTE ] So much for turning a 'new leaf'.

[/ QUOTE ]



baby steps.

[plan9]

i really dont care what people do with their cars, this includes volkswagons.

what i dislike is an individuals attitude.

you can be fat, sloppy, big eared and a little lame in the head but if your attitude is positive, that is what i project back.. same goes with the negative.

Billetproof is your gig, not mine. you want VW's in the show? fine by me.

[CURIOUS RASH]

[ QUOTE ]
i really dont care what people do with their cars, this includes volkswagons.

what i dislike is an individuals attitude.

you can be fat, sloppy, big eared and a little lame in the head but if your attitude is positive, that is what i project back.. same goes with the negative.



[/ QUOTE ] <font color="green">That's what I mean.

These people could do alot more for people who don't "get" the bug thing if they dropped the attitudes. </font>

[Hot Rod To Hell]

If you ask me (Which you didn't http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif)
V-Dubbers are along the same lines as some other ANNOYING groups...

Live your life however you want, I'm all for "Self expression", but DO NOT try to force your lifestyle on me...

you will NOT like the reponse you get.

[Bigcheese327]

I want a Corvair.

[cleatus]

I think its funny how often we all (myself included) post stuff about how we were treated like second class citizens at some chainer show, but then we're only too happy to do the same with "our" show.

If you don't dig it, just walk on by. Plenty of other stuff to look at.

But damn, it WAS annoying when the dub geek had to cruise the show while revving his sputter box - whump, sput, whump, sput, whump.

Maybe if we just put wheel locks on them as soon as they come in &amp; park. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Big A]

[ QUOTE ]
DO NOT try to force your lifestyle on me...

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh my god! Someone parked their VW near me and I'm finding it strangely attractive...

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[Hot Rod To Hell]

Nahh.. that's not really what I meant.

I meant
"Look, I have a VW. I know you don't like VW's but I have a VW. I know that VW's aren't cool, but look, I have one. You don't like VW's? Well I have one. If I make you look at my VW enough, can I make you like it? Oh, you Don't like it? I'll show it to you more then. VW's are so cool. I don't care that this is a FORD only show. I'm bringing my VW. VW's are cool. I don't care if you don't like VW's I'll bring mine. I don't care if you don't want a VW at your show. I'll bring mine just to piss you off. VW's are the coolest car ever created. Hey, do you like VW's? You should. VW's were created by god himself. Did you know that VW's have some magic ability to morph into anything, to fit the theme at any car show, cruise, conversation, or INTERNET MESSAGE BOARD? I love VW's. You wanna talk about Flathead Fords? I have a VW. Quick change Rearends? Yep I still have a VW. That thing got a Hemi? I don't know, but this right here is my VW." and so on and so on and so on and so on.............. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[Steel Phoenix]

The volksrods didn't bug me (pun fully intended)... I just thought they were kinda silly. Too many other cool cars to look at.

I can't even complain about the goldchainers that made it in... I had an endless source of amusement right in front of me when sitting where we parked.

Now, I COULD complain about the fact that those cars that 'didn't belong' were taking up space that 'legitimate' cars could have been occupying, but I'm not gonna! They didn't ruin my day, they didn't even ruin 10 seconds of my day, and I sure as hell wouldn't want even 5 minutes at the gate! Overall the blend of cars there was awesome. And like what has been brought up a few times already... the percentage was so small, it doesn't add up to much in the grand scheme of things.

Big Dirty... 30 cars? Damn, dude... just have to start calling you the official Billetproof Bouncer. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[DollaBill]

Human nature never dissapoints...

Someone made a comment about how we react to getting treated like second class citizens at "chainer" shows...which begs the obvious question: although that may be an accurate statement...who cares? Yes, traditionalists are a community, and so we have a communal identity and philosophy, and therefore we look for like-minded peers...the reality is that traditionalists are demonstrating their own brand of self expression, and external validation should not be a consideration. Peer validation is important...ergo there are venues like the HAMB and Billetproof...but if someone outside the peer group doesnt like your approach? Why should that matter?

The inverse is also true. Zealots that insist that you integrate them into your peer group are, by definition, seeking external validation. More to the point, they are up in your face demanding that validation. And, typically, that demand is underwritten by a subordinate demand that you "understand them"...as in "Look at my car. It is in no way shape or form a traditional hot rod, but I have painted it flat black and hung Rat Fink stickers all over it and I call it a 'rat rod' (puke!) and therefore you must acknowledge me and you must accept me as a peer because I can recite the latest edition of Old Skool Rodz magazine (puke, part deux!)"

Am I subscribing to an us versus them mentality? Sure. I have no problem with that, at all. I DO have a problem with objectifying any other group and finding fault JUST to find fault....but in the grand scheme of things, there ARE rules about whats traditional.

Viva Billetprroof...and I encourage elitism.

[PAPASMURF]

can this be dropped?

no one is cramming anything down you,

I enjoy what I do, like you do, I also enjoy what you do as well, I just like to have fun at billetproof and we were invited to come there with our cars by "the man himself".just fun to show people that this can be done to the car not spread my beleifs. if you can take a willy's hood and make it into a mod body, a heck it not worth it you guys carry on...have your fun I thought ryan took care of the bashing. Peace guys, traditional, hehehe, cut cars up, I thought thats what I do, put v8's in a car I thought thats what I do? just wrong frame/car....for the majority. see the way i look at it is you are acting like its the 50's they treated roders like the misfits. now american ratrods are accepted and you want to treat us like the misfits. I dont want to convert you, just coexist, so just carryon man. i will be at the drive in, the red robin, sonic burger, goodguys, billetproof, cause I have fun there like the next guy.


Yes I am building a volkswagen not a Duece coupe. It will never be one. I dont want it to be one. If I did I would buy one.

I am build ing a Volksrod, it is something diferent. It will sit next to my modified at the next billetproof, just like my kids are interacial so is my car culture. it how I was raised. love knows no boundries, for people or cars...

I will respect Ryan and not talk about the volkswagens, I dont post vw related, kirk did, I dont.

[Kev Nemo]

"most chicks want to dance on stage, but I only pay to see the hot ones. If you want a world class strip joint you gotta turn the fat ones around at the door brother. I'm sorry if that sounds complicated."

-Yeah, but if wasn't for the ugly ones, the vanity of the hot ones wouldn't drive them ever towering heights of depravity and lewdness.
There's a metaphor there, but now ya got me thinkin' about strippers. Damn you...

[Slag Kustom]

i have had many v-dubs i give them credit for the work they put into them.just like the guy who buidls a four door.
i think a karmann ghia is a better looking body then any 50's or 60's chrysler. but dont try to make it into some kind of early hot rod.

[adjustablejohnsons]

I have nothing against homosexuals....I just wouldn't like my brother to marry one.

[Kev Nemo]

Listen, I'm Messican myself and growing up, 60's moredoors are we built up. I never been a fan of the 13 inch froggy dayton/ghetto bang/etc---although I really think chainlink steering wheels are the shit, holmes...

Point is, maybe VW is what these cats grew up watching their dads build and now they want to do it different... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[slazzen]

I started out with vw's my dream was to always own a full fendered 34 3 window. But at 16 i did not have the skills or the money. So I bought a bug for $50 and built a cal bug. i went on to do 30 or so vw's and got tired of pouring money into motors that no matter how well built did not last.I finally got a prewar car not the 34 3 window but a rod. I would never take my rod to bugorama nor would i have dreamed to take my VW to BP.They are low buck but have there own identity. What will be next low-buck tuners with guide headlights bolted to the front end ??? The show was great the vibe was awsome stop apoligizeing you did a super job take notes and move on.

[KIRK!]

[ QUOTE ]
The show was great the vibe was awsome stop apoligizeing you did a super job take notes and move on.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll take that advice. The Slaz has spoken. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[FoMoCo_MoFo]

I was kinda bummed when I saw the Volksrods at BP. but I just like the little babyJesus said I turned the other cheek and walked right by them with out a look or a care.

it's just when the same volks rod guys keep posting their cars on the HAMB then complainig and threatening people when they get shit talked on them, it bums me out and pisses me off.

FUCK IT I am gonna paint my WRX STI in DP90, throw some sort of vintage ford part on it somewhere, mabey bolt a drop axle upside down to replace the wing, paint the wheels red, &amp; put some moon discs on it . Then take it to hot rod and custom shows and post about it every other fucking week on the hamb cause it's a hell of alot more of a fucking hot rod than a VW.

it's your show Kirk, do as you wish. I'll still be there...

[plan9]

[ QUOTE ]
can this be dropped?

no one is cramming anything down you,

I enjoy what I do, like you do, I also enjoy what you do as well, I just like to have fun at billetproof and we were invited to come there with our cars by "the man himself".just fun to show people that this can be done to the car not spread my beleifs. if you can take a willy's hood and make it into a mod body, a heck it not worth it you guys carry on...have your fun I thought ryan took care of the bashing. Peace guys, traditional, hehehe, cut cars up, I thought thats what I do, put v8's in a car I thought thats what I do? just wrong frame/car....for the majority. see the way i look at it is you are acting like its the 50's they treated roders like the misfits. now american ratrods are accepted and you want to treat us like the misfits. I dont want to convert you, just coexist, so just carryon man. i will be at the drive in, the red robin, sonic burger, goodguys, billetproof, cause I have fun there like the next guy.


Yes I am building a volkswagen not a Duece coupe. It will never be one. I dont want it to be one. If I did I would buy one.

I am build ing a Volksrod, it is something diferent. It will sit next to my modified at the next billetproof, just like my kids are interacial so is my car culture. it how I was raised. love knows no boundries, for people or cars...

I will respect Ryan and not talk about the volkswagens, I dont post vw related, kirk did, I dont.





[/ QUOTE ]

youll get a better response from me with a sound, calm post like this. but remember, sometimes things we do is not exactly what we say.... im talking about preaching in this case.

im sure you will acknowledge theres a lot of different philosophies on car building. *My* interpritation of this board is, "the do it yourself Traditional hotrod/custom board", not "Iam thinking beyond the box by building a VolksRod", as FoMoCo said, bolting old Ford items on a car doesnt make it Traditional. plenty of people here think beyond the box to improve old methods.

VW's, regardless if a few were published "back in the day" are not Traditional Hotrods or Customs. trying to tell us otherwise is in a way - cramming your philosophy down our optical orifices.

like i said before, a persons attitude dictates how i treat them not what type of car they drive.

the end.

[glassguy]

those little shitboxes have actually gotten pretty expensive around my parts..(boston area) but as soon as i can find a free or really cheap one im gonna biuld one into a rpu. for a shop runner. i think there kool. but im not gonna take it to the road agents show,ill take my merc.but if i did have to take it coz the merc broke, i would park outside the show and still have a good time. i geuss i dont understand why its an issue. maybe its a cal thing?

[ray]

[ QUOTE ]

FUCK IT I am gonna paint my WRX STI in DP90,

[/ QUOTE ]

did you see the newest(i think) issue of sport compact? you'll never guess what's on the cover...

[Mass Butcher]

Geez, what a damn drama. I don't get it and probably never will. I like vw's, but I wouldn't a)brag about or talk about one here, and b) I wouldn't take one to a traditional rod show. No more than I would take my p.u. to a vw show. Common sense.I also don't agree with anyone forcing their likes on a pre-formatted board as this one. If I want to talk vw,I'll go to a vw board.

As for Billetproof, sounds like it was a great show, wish I lived remotely close so I could attend. Every show has cars that don't belong, and some that attendees feel don't belong. Get over it, it's up to the promoters discretion.

[PAPASMURF]

the flat black honda, is that what your talking about? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif
now that I saw and kept walking...

[moondisc]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

2. Some of you will complan NO MATTER WHAT.


[/ QUOTE ]

That pretty much sums it up right there.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fuck em all if they can't take a joke!

[ QUOTE ]
most chicks want to dance on stage, but I only pay to see the hot ones.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


[/ QUOTE ]
Just like in bed, Fat chicks put more into it than the hot ones do. You're missing the boat her bro! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[moondisc]

[ QUOTE ]
As for Billetproof, sounds like it was a great show, wish I lived remotely close so I could attend.

[/ QUOTE ]
Bingo MB.
WE NEED A RIGHT COAST BILLETPROOF!
KIRK!? Are you listening? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Mass Butcher]

[ QUOTE ]
WE NEED A RIGHT COAST BILLETPROOF!


[/ QUOTE ]
We prolly couldn't afford the franchise fees http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[Hot Rod To Hell]

Billetproof Detroit is kind of a "Middle Coast" Billetproof, and an AWESOME show... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Muttley]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

FUCK IT I am gonna paint my WRX STI in DP90,

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you see the newest(i think) issue of sport compact? you'll never guess what's on the cover...



[/ QUOTE ]



I did a google search and came up with this:

http://sportcompactcarweb.com/toc/0410scc_cover_large.jpg
GAY! GAY! GAY! GAY! GAY! GAY! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

[AHotRod]

did'nt Ryan say to stop this shit !

[SamIyam]

The problem is... most of the people here on the HAMB and at Billetproof don't have a fucking clue as to what a traditional hot rod or custom is.

Sure you might be able to pick one out of a crowd... and sure you can sit here all day long and bad mouth the cars that obviously aren't... but take a look in the mirror... does your car look like it fell right out of the littlepages?

Probably not.

I know mine don't.

So I don't bitch at what shows up at Billetproof.

What I do embrace is the "home built hot rod"...

And the sooner that KIRK? and Billetproof (which I believe they have already done) starts to make "home built hot rods" the major point of their mission statement... the sooner they can stop listening to the self proclaimed "traditional hot rodders" spew their armchair quarterback knowledge about what "traditional" hot rods should be allowed in their show.

Quite frankly, most people don't know how to, don't have the money to and don't have the patience to build something that is traditional... in addition, people have muddied the waters of what a traditional hot rod is and bastardized it to include anything with white walls, primer and pinstriping...

I prefer to leave the labels for the guys and the cars that have gone that extra mile to evoke a certain era... the rest... ah, the rest of them are just home built hot rods. Yep, they come in all shapes and sizes and don't play by any rules... and it's the type of car that shows up at Billetproof... a type of car that tells the world that you don't have to have $50,000 into a hot rod to have fun.

They may be painted, they may be primered, they may have steel wheels, they may have polished aluminum mags, they may be flathead powered, they may run a SBC and have A/C... but the one common denominator is that they were built at home, on a budget... and the owner has a big ol' smile on his face when he drives it...

Sam.

[trey]

im eating chilli fries for lunch. man is it good.


what were we talking about again?

trey

[Ichoptop]

"Spreading the gospel of traditional hot rods and kustoms to greasers world wide..."

It doesn't say American steel only
BSAs and Triumphs arent American
Fiats and Anglias arent American

whats the point of bitching about some unwritten rule that you think everyone needs to live by. I am with SamIyam. I'll repect a guy that made a 4cyl run 11.0s with his own hands in his own garage just as much as someone who chopped a 50 merc in his own garage with his own hands. Whats the difference between the guy that first figured out how to chop a 49 merc, or stuff a big block in the front of an Anglia or figured out how to bolt an I-beam to the snout of a bug?
The Rockasilly scene is Dead
The Unwritten rules that you live by only apply to you.
If you dont like it move along....dont judge.

[Django]

Gooch, you're killing me. Baby steps... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

You can't deny that the two chopped vws with the '35 wires are bitchin FOR WHAT THEY ARE.

I'm glad I read this thread cause I got to see this pic. So far it's been the highlight of my day. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif If someone here took it, it'd be in the calendar.

http://www.vwtrendsweb.com/features/0405vwt_hotrod19_z.jpg

[nicanor]

If VWs aren't considered a real "traditionalist hot rod", then you can say the same to super slammed death rods like the purple people eater.

[hankcash]

I shaved the hair on my cock once...
It has to be erect to do so, otherwise you will cut yourself

[hollywud]

Volkswagons...Tri-Five chevys....There all the same
Played out! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
Btw...Amen SAM! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[hollywud]

Hey Hank...
Doesnt have to be Erect...Just Big If you do it soft

[CURIOUS RASH]

<font color="green">Real men PLUCK 'EM. </font>

[hollywud]

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooo http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Hackerbilt]

Well said Sam!

I can live with bugs...just don't try to stuff them into the same pigeon hole as traditional Hot Rods.
They just aren't.

Let them roam free, as the sometimes cool little rides they are!
Bugs are like the automotive version of a transvestite. You can dress them up to resemble your wildest wet dream...but deep down inside you know it just isn't gonna be the same thing!!!

Ya know...for all the buildups of bugs over the years...I still don't think people know what to do with them. So they copy styles and try new looks, just hopeing to fit in somewhere...but all they really do is alienate themselves from everyone who's style they are copying...
Someone needs to create an identity for those interesting little cars.
SOMEONE needs to build the definitive bug!

That said...don'tcha HATE people who pigeon hole things!?!? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[plan9]

on a daily basis i question the level of reading comprehension on this board.

[296 V8]

People do strange things to cars.
On the 80 the other day I saw a 70s 911 in black primer - red rims w small caps and wide whites.
What if that showed up?

[Boones]

I think Sam said it very well. None of your opinions really matter, Its Kirks show, what he wants to let in is his choice.. new, old, foriegn or American.

I dont have an issue with the V-dubs done in a Hotrod style. would not even mind having one park next to me at a show. Out of 700 plus cars at BP I bet there was not even 10 vw (I was not there so I can say) but that would only be just over one percent of the cars. When a show grows as big as BP has you will have cars that do not conform to everyones taste. I have attended 2 BP when they barely attracted 100 cars. I can tell you there were cars at those events that probably did not belong. but they were in black primer and had red rims or where rust buckets and that made them cool...

Kirk, from the pics I seen, the show looks like it has gotten huge and to pull off a show like that take more work then the majority of us would want to do.. Congrats.

[hatch]

A appreciate ANYTHING with wheels that has "The Look"...if it doesn't, no problem....I look elsewhere...same with TV or magazines.....I look at what I like and ignore the rest. Sure seems to be a bunch of fuckin whiners on this board lately....look, or don't look...it's your choice...just don't tell me what I am allowed to view.

[SnoDawg]

I think I will take and paint the wheels red and put Wide whites on my 93 Dodge cummins will that make it ol skool??? Damn where did I put that BEER???

[fab32]

Of all the posts so far, Sam has got it said in the fewest words. Reread his post and get on with your life.

Frank

[Mai Ki-Ki]

You all suck.

KIRK keep on running one of the Best shows on the planet your way. If someone doesn't like a VW why do they crap on about them so, walk on by. I hate half the cars at most shows (not my bag) but hell i talk about the cool ones i did like, talking about shit you Don't like is wasting time and focusing on 'negatives'.

"if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all."

Maiki.

[Hot Rod To Hell]

[ QUOTE ]
"if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all."


[/ QUOTE ]
You're totally right. I shouldn't have even wasted the energy to type a reply...

[tragic59]

Sam does make a good point. He usually does. One of the few of us who rarely puts his foot in his mouth on here.

BUT, what if a guy built a digital-dashed, billet-full, crate-engined, tweed interiored, 80's style graphics on monochrome pastel painted, tubbed, pro-streeted, street rod with 20" billet wheels and low profile tires IN HIS OWN GARAGE??? Does the fact that he built it himself mean it should get into Billetproof, or that we should embrace it on the HAMB?

I don't think so.

Look, I'm all for homebuilt cars, and I could admire the craftsmanship of the previously described street rod. But it doesn't mean it would get through the gate at Billetproof. Nor should it.

So, just because a guy built it himself doesn't mean it's good.

That said, I chose to just look the other way regard to the VW's at BP. Even with a whopping 10 VW's, it's still the best show going, and I definitely got my $5 worth of cool cars, cool people and a cool vibe.

Let's face it Kirk, if the worst thing we've got to bitch about is some Volsrods, you're doing a pretty good fucking job.

[SamIyam]

[ QUOTE ]
If VWs aren't considered a real "traditionalist hot rod", then you can say the same to super slammed death rods like the purple people eater.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly!

"super slammed death rods" are about as traditional as my 2000 Chevy pickup...

The term "traditional" needs to be kept sacred... something to strive for... instead it has been bastardized by people who know it is a cool thing... and think they can jump the bandwagon by primering a piece of shit and slamming it to the ground.

My vote is to embrace craftsmanship, ingenuity and execution...

I also don't want people to think I'm being a Berkinstock wearing, granola eatin' tree huggin', Sally Struthers "can't we just get along" bitch.

And no, I'm not an elitist either...

I do however recognize that certain cars are harder to build than others... they not only take more money, but also more time, thought and most of all... patience.

So why not congratulate people for their efforts... it's not "pole smoking" until you got the guys balls imprinted on your chin...

So an atta-boy for a guy who goes the extra mile is due.

But on the same token, don't put these cars on such a high pedestal that they think they can't park their car on the same lawn as one of those... those... those... RAT RODS!

The similarities are more numerous than the differences... that's what KIRK?s show is about...

We like them a little rough around the edges... truly "barn fresh" but "barn fresh in fiberglass" is a bit much... patina? Sure. Old Drag cars... yea baby! Low riders... not me. Street rods, only if they use some imagination... the spirit of the HAMB... is the spirit of Billetproof. A little bit of everything, but not too much of one thing. And definately bought with big bucks and driven around by a pompass ass.

Sam.

[SamIyam]

Tragic59 has a good point...

Maybe a way around this is to outline what is NOT allowed... I think KIRK? has "no billet clad fluffmobiles" on his flyer... that excludes the cars that get to be "mind numbing" at 95% of the cars shows that are out there.

I can remember a time when I would have to walk all day long aroud a big car show to see something I liked. There is a certain car that floats my boat. It just so happens that there are entire shows dedicated to that type of car now... so instead of having to walk all day long to see one that I like... Billetproof is the opposite... all you have to do is turn your head and there is something cool to look at...

I'd better stop... I'm starting to feel an impression on my chin... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif
Sam.

[moondisc]

[ QUOTE ]
I also don't want people to think I'm being a Berkinstock wearing, granola eatin' tree huggin', Sally Struthers "can't we just get along" bitch.


[/ QUOTE ]
1 outta 5 ain't bad Sally! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[moondisc]

[ QUOTE ]
<font color="green">Real men PLUCK 'EM. </font>

[/ QUOTE ]
I plucked em once. My nuts bled for a week!

[LIMEY]

It aint nothing new bugs trying to be something they're not,
this was 23 yrs ago here in England &amp; its pretty clear what this one would like to be.
Personally i don't care for 'em one little bit but its my choice whether or not i go &amp; take a look round one.

[Dayzwalker]

I think you all are forgetting one SMALL detail...

Kirk invited the VW's there personally

[Cadillacin Marcus]

Personally I dont get it..Shit.. guys built VW's back in the 50's and 60's and hot rodded and customized them etc etc...I still like that chopped beetle in the Movie the Hollywood Knights....Lets see that was supposed to be Oct 1965...... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif whats the deal??

[Cadillacin Marcus]

Sam,
You're on the money........

[slammed]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you all are forgetting one SMALL detail...

Kirk invited the VW's there personally

[/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ]


[/ QUOTE ] So the Bug pic's were on an off HAMB site, viewed, then returned to the HAMB board to complain....to what end? Someone took a Bug pic and posted it to ridicule and expound how the they do not belong to the 'eletist' critera of auto fashion. I am sooooo glad to be clean and sober, 'cause what I am seeing is real.

[TINGLER]

Hell Sam,
For the first time, I am in agreement with you. This truely is BIZZARO HAMB.

As far as Billetproof goes....I dunno, I've never been to it. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

As far as the "definitive BUG" goes....thats simple. A RAIL BUGGY, or a BAJA bug. Those are all a bug is good for. IMHO. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I would love to have a rail buggy BTW.....someday, maybe.

VT

[26Tudor]

I don't normally set myself up for the hate mail I am bound to receive, but here goes-
I don't post V*******n related stuff on here, it's Ryan's board, and he doesn't want it. Fair enough. I will however, like someone asked on another post, say something like "the guy that did the top chop on the Cop-looking Vrod didn't use an extra roof to fill in the gaps, he narrowed the body" so (1) people will know how he did it, and (2) maybe someone here will try that on their '50 Merc, or '29 Huppmobile, or whatthefu*kever.
Yep, I am building one of them there V-Rods. I want an all steel 34 3 window with an Ardun headed flathead, 3/8" stroker, Scot blower, all the bitchin' Old School tricks. I work for a V********n Magazine, and on that salary, getting the 3 window of my dreams just ain't gonna happen. I am building, in my garage, on my own time and expense, a "V-rod" with a lot of stuff I have learned from you guys- chopped top, sunroof section grafted in, suicide doors, hidden hinges, Ford straight wires (don't give me any crap, when I got them, NOBODY here would have wanted them)16x5 back, 17x3 front, Magnum, Posie's, Speedway, etc etc.I built my own engine, that dynoed at 160 hp to the flywheel, and it's going in a 1400 pound car..do the math, anybody want to line up at the next HAMB drags? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif If I can keep the spokes from yanking themselves right out of the hub or rim, I just might have something there, sorta like a Fiat Altered with Old School metalwork and ingenuity involved. No, I won't post pictures, I did once, of the chassis, and I got PM'ed into oblivion for my mistake, and High Crimes against the HAMB'ers. I have said it before, and I'll say it again- I am NOT here to change anybody's way of thinking. I am NOT trying to convert anyone to V********ism. I am here to "lurk and learn" and learn more about home-building a car from the ground up. I go to Hot Rod shows all the time with my 13 second V********n Oval window, and have a great time talking cam,carbs, jetting, compression, duration, overlap, base circles, new pushrod technology, etc etc with other like-minded gearheads, regardless of the car they drove in...If someone at Billetproof with na Volks-rod actually copped an attitude with someone else with a traditional (or non-traditional, hell, I don't care) car, PM me- I either (1) know who it was, or (2) know someone who knows who it was, and I'll see to it it that they are properly butt-kicked. In the final analysis, It's Kirk's show, he invited some of the Volksrodders to the show, if he didn't want them there, he would not have invited them. If you don't like the way Kirk runs the show, may I ever so humbly suggest that you put on your own show? And see what the true meaning of "Pain and Suffering" really is?
Crap. Now my fingers hurt from all this typing, and I gotta get that other steering arm on so I can get going on the brakes.....

[Hot Rod To Hell]

Seriously guys, I don't care what kinds of cars go to the shows (or get posted on here) because I have the free will not to look, but I don't like people trying to force feed me cars that I don't like; That's all.

Hell, My car's not really Billetproof (or HAMB for that matter!)material, but I took it to BilletProof Detroit to see if I'd get in or not... well, I did. I'm sure there were a bunch of people there that didn't really dig my car, and I'm OK with that... to each his own, right?

KIRK! told me that he thought my car was cool, and he didn't mind that I brought it, and a few of the POOR BOYS told me that they really dug it, and to make sure I bring it back next year; but I DID NOT try to make the people that didn't like it change their tastes... that just wouldn't make sense to me! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Hopefully this all makes sense and sounds a little more "civil" than my earlier posts. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[zman]

Shaving itches... I just keep it clipped short.... Looks good for the ladies...

[plan9]

i like 69choptop (in a hetero way)...

ive been wanting to make a fastback volvo gasser since suggesting it to a certain HAMB'r. lightweight, short wheelbase... should make for a fun ride http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Volksrod]

I know what you guys are talking about. I've Got a gold chain car, a sixties car and I'm building a traditional car. I also own the black and white VW. I am old enough to remember the original cars that so many of you are trying to mimic. I love what you guys are doing.
I also have to say that I agree with some of you about a couple of the cars there. The one in particular is even an embarrassment at a VW show.
I only wish that more of you could understand that in the fifties Model A bodies were plentiful and cheap. That is the reason that so many of them were the car of choise to hot rod. Those cars have all but disapeared today so what choice does the poor hot rodder have? In todays world one of the alternatives is to use a VW bug. Like the Model A's of the fifties, they are plentiful and cheap. As far as hot rod goes.....My VW powered T Bucket will ruin most V8 owners day.
I know that you guys are saying "fine just don't bring them to our show". Well you may be right but My VW was built totally in the spirit of the early "Traditional" hot rods. The car was built with all hand made parts on a very low budget.
I think that those of us who are fortunate enough to accually own and drive these cars have a responsability to the younger generation coming up. I think that we should be setting examples of what can be done.
I am proud of what we did with a VW and we did it in the true spirit of Hot Rodding.

Thanks for listening , Walt

[banzaitoyota]

Guess having a SBC excludes you from the "traditional" label also?

[rockabillyjoe]

Hotrods are for fat people who cant fit in Volkswagens! I've always loved thet saying.

[Unkl Ian]

Fucking Cry Baby Conformists.

Looking to be differnt,just like all their friends.
And you can be differnt too,
as long as you fit in with the right crowd and their idea of what is acceptable.
Don't try anything new,don't buck the trends.
Do as your told.
Follow the "rebellious" crowd,like all the other Sheep.

Imagination and creativity are only allowed within the limits dictated by
The Beautiful People,the big coporate magazines,and the self appointed Cool Car Cops.

Next year they will be bitching because someone's t-shirt wasn't black enough,
or their cuffs weren't long enough.

Some beer drinking Poser buys a stock 60's barge,pays someone else to bolt on a set of White Walls,
and he's an instant automotive hero.

Some poor guy slaving away in his garage,chopping,welding,smoothing,getting his ass dirty doing all that traditional custom shit the Posers can't do and would never try to learn,
is somehow a stupid asshole because his 60's car,which was originally designed back before The War,
isn't Kosher with the self appointed Cool Car Cops.

Maybe he should have started with an Anglia,Popular,Topolino,Bantum.
I think an old Rolls Royce,or a Bently,would make a cool Lead Sled.The Cool Car Cops would scream.

Fuck the Purist Pigs who want to limit what is acceptable.Who died and left them in charge ?

Is it old ? YES
Is it modified ? YES

SO WHAT IS THE FUCKING PROBLEM ? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[Jeff Norwell]

[ QUOTE ]
Fucking Cry Baby Conformists.

Looking to be differnt,just like all their friends.
And you can be differnt too,
as long as you fit in with the right crowd and their idea of what is acceptable.
Don't try anything new,don't buck the trends.
Do as your told.
Follow the "rebellious" crowd,like all the other Sheep.

Imagination and creativity are only allowed within the limits dictated by
The Beautiful People,the big coporate magazines,and the self appointed Cool Car Cops.

Next year they will be bitching because someone's t-shirt wasn't black enough,
or their cuffs weren't long enough.

Some beer drinking Poser buys a stock 60's barge,pays someone else to bolt on a set of White Walls,
and he's an instant automotive hero.

Some poor guy slaving away in his garage,chopping,welding,smoothing,getting his ass dirty doing all that traditional custom shit the Posers can't do and would never try to learn,
is somehow a stupid asshole because his 60's car,which was originally designed back before The War,
isn't Kosher with the self appointed Cool Car Cops.

Maybe he should have started with an Anglia,Popular,Topolino,Bantum.
I think an old Rolls Royce,or a Bently,would make a cool Lead Sled.The Cool Car Cops would scream.

Fuck the Purist Pigs who want to limit what is acceptable.Who died and left them in charge ?

Is it old ? YES
Is it modified ? YES

SO WHAT IS THE FUCKING PROBLEM ? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif



[/ QUOTE ]
























YIKES!!!!!..................somebody needs a blue piill http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[JamesG]

[ QUOTE ]
Fucking Cry Baby Conformists.

Fuck the Purist Pigs who want to limit what is acceptable.Who died and left them in charge ?

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif



[/ QUOTE ]

Tell that to Ryan..........He's in charge. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[Fat Hack]

Damn...the gig is called BILLETproof...not BUGproof! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

How hard is THAT to figure out? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

...and I read Sam's first reply five times...and I agreed with it 100%!!! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

"What in da Hell is da world commin' to?!" http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[thrasherbill]

VW's as traditional hot rods? Maybe not. VW's part of hot rod culture? Absolutely.

http://volksrods.com/forums/uploads/post-2-1096421433.jpg


Need another?


http://volksrods.com/forums/uploads/post-2-1096420551.jpg

[choprods]

I am an AMERICAN.

As an american -I can speak of some americans mentality.
I think the "problem" with the cars that are a problem [in this post].......is the amount of RESENTMENT that we feel for their"nationality" http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I have never heard this said....and thought about it for a while before I decided to say it... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

We were never "at War"with .....say -GREAT BRITAIN...........Hence Brit bikes and Anglias are accepted even though they are "foreign vehicles.
also on the flip side of that coin, some of us[not me] tend to hold strong resentment towards JAPANESE bikes and cars in the US along with German cars as well....[I ONLY RIDE KAWASAKI CAUSE I LIKE EM!]
MY POINT here is the fact that we are victims of [INNOCENT OR GUILTY] inherited RESENTMENT or hatred ,if you will -of a country or its products and god forbid [even its population] [IN SOME CASES]-due to the fact that we were raised to remember the fact that we WERE AT WAR with those two countries-ITS LIKE SUBLININAL MESSAGING-WE HEAR IT WE PRACTICE IT.... .
I suppose if there were IRAQI cars made we would be Dissin' those at the present time and in the future too!
Im saying Just like in the case of "learned racism" the problem with these cars we are discussing is not so much their appearance or performance-but the stigma they carry in reguards to our historic and patriotic beliefs.
I personally have seen and been exposed to these practices as I was raised in a small rural community with very little exposure to outside cultures as a youth.
having said that I have OWNED VW'S and dont mind their being rebuilt in any manner you like as a hobby.....but they are not NOW or are they EVER- ANY part of traditional HOT RODDING.PART OF OUR CULTURE-SURE![based on the history of "the day"/'50's-'60's] http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[BARNETT]

[ QUOTE ]
Is it old ? YES
Is it modified ? YES
SO WHAT IS THE FUCKING PROBLEM ?


[/ QUOTE ]

Right-the hell-on!



[ QUOTE ]
Tell that to Ryan..........He's in charge

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey, One-Low...Ryan is NOT in charge of BilletProof, which is the original subject matter of this thread.

[thrasherbill]

[ QUOTE ]
but they are not NOW or are they EVER- ANY part of traditional HOT RODDING.[based on the history of "the day"/'50's-'60's] http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]


Please see my post one above yours. Apparently Ed Roth and Von Dutch were not part of traditional hot rodding.

[JamesG]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Is it old ? YES
Is it modified ? YES
SO WHAT IS THE FUCKING PROBLEM ?


[/ QUOTE ]

Right-the hell-on!



[ QUOTE ]
Tell that to Ryan..........He's in charge

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey, One-Low...Ryan is NOT in charge of BilletProof, which is the original subject matter of this thread.



[/ QUOTE ]

I know that, I ment on here. Didn't mean to stray from the original point at hand. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[thrasherbill]

Hey choprods, do your homework before spouting off. A Brit was responsible for re-opening the VW factory after the war and an American was responsible for VW distribution in North America. Ignorance pisses me off.

[Von Scott]

If it's cool it's cool. It don't matter what it is as long as it's cool. What's cool? I think all of us here agree on some basics, but we're all different and we all have different likes and dislikes, but I agree if nobody thinks your stuff is cool, then deal with it and move on. Don't force it down other's throats. Rod

[hollywud]

[ QUOTE ]
Personally I dont get it..Shit.. guys built VW's back in the 50's and 60's and hot rodded and customized them etc etc...I still like that chopped beetle in the Movie the Hollywood Knights....Lets see that was supposed to be Oct 1965...... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif whats the deal??

[/ QUOTE ]

Lawrence.....lawrence of Arabia....He's an English guy.....He came to fight the Turkish!!!.....Beep Beep...Beep Beep! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[____]

fuck it,im gonna build a bug,ok,happy?..then shut the fuck up now.

[46stude]

[ QUOTE ]
Ignorance pisses me off.

[/ QUOTE ]

You piss yourself off alot then, don't you?

Don't make a shit who reopened or who did distribution. Bottom line is the pioneers of rodding were fresh home from a war w/ Germany. No doubt at all that resentment towards the Krauts is one big reason VW's were not rodding fodder back in the day. That &amp; the fact that they weren't everywhere like ol' T &amp; '32 bodies were.

[JamesG]

I love that Damn show!

Project X was on it too.
http://www.varaces.com/db_images/275-1.jpg

[moondisc]

[ QUOTE ]
Shaving itches... I just keep it clipped short.... Looks good for the ladies...

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah. But if you shave it makes little things look bigger!

[hollywud]

Classic I thought it was better than Am. Graffiti,What the hell is dude's name????Newbomb Kirk? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[banzaitoyota]

What I am finding amusing is the fact that if we teleported ourselves back to 1956, all the SBC installs would be performed by people with deep pockets (aka Goldchainers). most of the cool old parts most people couldnt afford them back then either. So all the "ultra-traditional" rods with the trick heads and killer intakes could be classified as "gold-chain/the modern day billet equivlent". These conversations provide much amusement to me. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Oh well off to the shop to work on "my" version of period correct hot rod

[JamesG]

[ QUOTE ]
Classic I thought it was better than Am. Graffiti,What the hell is dude's name????Newbomb Kirk? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

The one and only!

http://www.movieposteremporium.com/mpi/www/lc_00034.jpg

[hollywud]

NO WAY!!!!!!NOT THE FART SONG!!!! hahahah http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[hollywud]

I want that on dvd!

[46stude]

Newbomb was GAY! He couldn't even do a hot young Fran Drescher(sp?).!! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Hollywood Knights wasn't "period correct" either, but it was a damn good hot rod movie!

[hollywud]

My Girlfriend isnt "Period Correct" Either...It Comes when it wants to...And usually during a car show weekend http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[hollywud]

Newbomb was'nt Gay...She was hot till she opened her yap!!
I'd go limp too! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[VolksRodder]

Am I missing something??

Where and how did the "shoving and pushing VW down everyone's throats" come from??

Did one of them start a thread "Hey look at me! I'm at Billetproof!!" with pictures of their cars all over the place?

Did one of them even post anything about it at all (unless replying to all this shit)?

Fuck, the whiners are making more of a production of the VWs that anyone.

Kirk invited them to participate.
They did

End of story.

What's the problem?... and what the hell is everyone afraid of?

And thanks Unk and Samiyam for showing there's still some oldtimers here that remember when an open mind was the majority here.

[KIRK!]

PLEASE LOCK THIS POST!!!!

[slammed]

[ QUOTE ]
Newbomb was'nt Gay...She was hot till she opened her yap!!
I'd go limp too! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ]


[/ QUOTE ] Newbomb and Fran were making out in his '56 Delivery, hot-n-heavy.....when he uh, 'came' in 1st before the race began. The least he coulda done was 'go down town'...right ladie's?

[hollywud]

I'd Be affraid that it might have the same Voice as her....Could you picture that noise coming out of that? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[jalopy43]

Whatsmatter?? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

[hollywud]

Uh ...Is there somethink you need us to know about Glen??? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[46stude]

Fran did a candy bar commercial a while back that I thought was very fitting. She was saying the candy had a low fat count, &amp; that was important to her becuz when you had a voice like hers, you'd better look good!

(Sorry for the O/T post- I'll shut my trap now...)

[hollywud]

"MY D*#% http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif...IN the punch!!!

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Post deleted by Ryan

[jalopy43]

This is the one I meant....

[hollywud]

Uh ...Gooch..who the hell is that?

[choprods]

are you speed reading again thrasherbill? I was laying it out as it is- you showed me two examples -that a tradition does not make.Neither of those were very mainstream much less part of the majority of what was happening over the whole US- I am more qualified to speak on how some americans feel than you and I did say SOME americans-not myself..I Own a Metropolitan my self - I believe they were of British design wioth an Austin motor so you my friend are mixed up about my preferences. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
If you read my post carefully you wopuld see I was not putting down the foreign cars I was stating what I as a kid in the midwest heard and saw from older folks that had either served in the military during those conflicts or lost a family member to them.That gives me an insight into that that you surely do not understand. Ignorant- could be but not as much as some..... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Ryan]

I think you all suck.