Different mills 50's style please

[marq]

Ok all in my truck i have the chevy small block but next year after it's been in a bit and i have driven it some i want to change the engine for sommit more unusual.I have a 392 hemi but they are not particularly unusaul now ,nice but not unusual.I want to put in a nice ohv v8 of a late 50's vintage for say a hotrod that was owned by a better off older guy in the 50's someone who could afford a real nice mill.............Any sugestions would be much appreciated and pictures of hotrods with these engines even more so .please fire away.......Marq

[briggs&strattonChev]

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v8 of a late 50's vintage for say a hotrod that was owned by a better off older guy in the 50's someone who could afford a real nice mill

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Im sure 283's and 348's were pretty pricy in the late fiftys???

What SBC do you have now? You are looking for something with better performance than your sbc, but has to be from the late 50's? I dont know of any mill from the late 50s that isnt at least fairly common. A real nice mill in the late 50's was the 283 from what I understand. Lightweight and snappy. If you want a big block then maybe the 348, but ive never heard anything good from a performance standpoint on them. I know what you mean that you want something that is "different", but dont make it so different that the car becomes a dog. Idk what small block you have, but they are good motors even though they are dead common. 409's a wild motor ive heard too, but they didnt come about till early early 60's. Maybe a 365 caddy with dual 4's? I wouldnt hesitate at all putting that hemi you have into the car. maybe im misunderstanding this post so if what I said doesnt make sense tell me lol

Chris

[marq]

well i was really wonderin if sommit like a rocket 88 motor was any good ?perhaps a caddy or maybe a big nailhead,tbird? i dunno but i have a nice 350 truck engine at the moment both Flat Ernie and i seem to think it a 4 bolt main but it was a cutout.I want something different ,it's a hotrood fa god sakes so it gotta go so what power output can i expect from a nice 50's ohv v8?.........Marq

[briggs&strattonChev]

oh, I was presuming that a rocket or a nailhead was out of the question if you didnt want to use your hemi. Yes buicks and olds did make some nice engines. A 57 365 caddy with 2 4's put out 325 horse in stock form. The guy that built my dads said it would be very easy to get alot more power out of one too.

[metalshapes]

I really like the setup I have in my Roadster.
'57 Vette 283 ( no sidemounts and a old style oilfilter ) with a VS57 McCulloch Blower, bolted to a T5 Worldclass 5Speed ( the car is low, so you cant see that...)
It is old enough, would not be that common in the late 50s, and it performs really well...
Most people dont seem to realise they are not looking at a 350 SBC ( sometimes they point at the Supercharger and ask me why I have A/C in a Roadster ), but that does not matter that much to me.

[briggs&strattonChev]

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Most people dont seem to realise they are not looking at a 350 SBC ( sometimes they point at the Supercharger and ask me why I have A/C in a Roadster ), but that does not matter that much to me.



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nice attitude about not caring what others think, personally I would notice the front motor mounts and think 283/265 and call you a cool guy for not using a 350

and as far as the blower/AC confusion....................wow............those were REAL car guys huh

[leadsleadolds]

You could find a nailhead pretty easy because they ran em up into 66. I see 401 and 425 in junkyards around here alot. You will be spending some money though and almost all the buicks are automatics if you want a manual good luck. Adapters are pricey. Or the olds rocks too that is the rich mans hot rod in the day. Im also partial to buicks and olds so Im biased. With the olds you get a better tranny and open drive unlike buicks up into 60 are closed drive.

[Bigcheese327]

Hey, I like this topic! It’s something I daydream about all the time. Because, if we had time machines which of us wouldn’t want to go back to that era and buy a “crate motor” from the dealer?

If I were to stop at the GM dealer I’d consider any of the top performance offerings of 1957 and 1958. Dual quad and Fuel Injected 283 Turbo-Fire V8s and the new 348 big block with a solid lifter camshaft and three two barrels were available from Chevrolet those years. Pontiac offered solid-lifter V8s with either Tripower or Rochester Fuel Injection in 347” in ’57 and in 370” in ’58. Of course, these were also the “J2” years at Oldsmobile and solid-lifter, three deuce V8s were available in a 371 cubic inch displacement. The luxury barges from Buick were powered by a 364 cubic inch “nailhead” V8, with a single four-barrel carburetor and up to 330 horsepower available with a special “high performance kit.” Finally, Cadillac’s offerings are not to be forgotten as the Eldorado’s 365” V8 was available with dual-quads in ’57 and with triple carburetors in ’58.

I’d be equally tempted toward the Ford-Lincoln-Mercury camp for those years too as Ford offered its 312 V8 in both dual-quad and supercharged versions for ’57. In ’58 it introduced its 332 and 352 cubic inch FE big blocks. High performance options for these motors included the “Police Interceptor” options with single four-barrels. Mercury first offered the gigantic MEL V8 in ’57 in the Turnpike cruiser it produced 290 horsepower with a single Holley 4bbl. Dual quads were available on the MEL (called the M-335 power package) for 335 horsepower. The MEL grew to 383 and 430 cubic inches in ’58 and the 430 was offered in a 3x2, 400 horsepower guise. All of the Lincoln engines were the same as Mercury.

Mopar was getting into performance in these years as well. The 300C was offered with two versions of the 392 “Firepower” V8 in ‘57. The average buyer opted for the 375 horsepower, dual quad engine, but the serious performance buyer could purchase a 390 horsepower, extra-cost, solid lifter motor backed by a modified Dodge 3-speed. In 1958 the situation changed slightly with the dual-quad motor bumped up five horsepower in the 300D and an optional 390 horsepower EFI engine with a low backpressure exhaust.

DeSoto buyers could do nearly as well as those purchasing letter cars with the Adventurer series. The Firedome V8 in 1957 was a 345 horsepower, 345 cubic inch V8 with twin Carter four-barrels. In 1958 the B-series big block made its debut in 361 cid form, again with 345 horsepower and dual Carters.

Dodge’s little “Red Ram” had grown to 325 cubic inches by 1957 in D-500 form with dual Carters and to 354” in the D-501. The D-500 featured mechanical lifters and the ‘501 hydraulic. The D-500 became a B-series motor in 1958 with the D-500 producing 305 horsepower and the Super D-500 making 320. Both engines used dual-quads. There was also an EFI version of the 361.

Don’t even count out oddball Plymouth and its non-Hemi for ’57. The A-series (wide block) 318 in the Fury used dual Carters and pumped out 290 horsepower. The ’58 “Golden Commando” 350” engine produced 305 horsepower with dual Carters and 315 with the short-lived EFI option.

So, there you have it, scads of engine options from the Big Three for ’57 and ’58. Any one of those engines (or a clone) would be great eye candy under your hood. Have fun!

[Fraz]

If you're wanting to stay true to an early or mid 50's style, say no later than 1956 or so, go with an early Caddy or Olds Rocket. They seem to be the engine of choice for that time period. Flathead Ford V8s were still way popular as well. Buicks seemed to be a bit underused; according to my reading, people weren't thrilled with the pain in the ass enclosed driveline transmissions and they didn't like the possible steering/starter clearance issues. The "new" Y-block Fords and SBC's were expensive at the time. Pontiacs were used about as much as Buicks. The "orphan" (Stude, Hudson, Packard, Rambler/AMC) car V8's were also rarely used.

[saltflataddict]

sweet you guys make feel better about putting a '58 283 in my modified project.. Actually I feel pretty damn good about anywaays.. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Blownolds]

If you want to look a long time for speed parts, but not FOREVER, then go with an Olds rocket-- either a '54-6 324 or a '57-8 371. Other OHV engines will take forever to find suitable speed equipment, except for maybe the 312 Y-block.

[57JoeFoMoPar]

Believe me guys, I love a 283 as much as the next guy, (maybe even more since I've owned a 57 Bel Air with one), but I gotta give it up to the Olds mill on this one. Roll out with a 303, or especially a warmed over 324...you'll spank a 283 and look so good doing it. A bunch of friends of mine are diehard Olds guys, and those motors look great, run great and are as reliable as anything. Just stay away from the 394.

The only thing cooler than an Olds millin my eyes is a worked Caddy mill, but Lord knows that's too rich for my blood.

[Levis Classic]

[ QUOTE ]
I really like the setup I have in my Roadster.
'57 Vette 283 ( no sidemounts and a old style oilfilter ) with a VS57 McCulloch Blower, bolted to a T5 Worldclass 5Speed ( the car is low, so you cant see that...)
It is old enough, would not be that common in the late 50s, and it performs really well...
Most people dont seem to realise they are not looking at a 350 SBC ( sometimes they point at the Supercharger and ask me why I have A/C in a Roadster ), but that does not matter that much to me.

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And yeah Metalshapes you can here that thing whine while your flying down the road!!

[Bigcheese327]

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Roll out with a 303, or especially a warmed over 324...you'll spank a 283 and look so good doing it. A bunch of friends of mine are diehard Olds guys, and those motors look great, run great and are as reliable as anything.

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Don't get me wrong, I love the Olds motor and I'd kill to have one over an SBC, but I have heard some crazy good things about the 301 Chevy. Maybe that's just because production times and figures outpaced the early Olds V8s though.

[JOBCORP]

I opted for the cadillac mill. Its a 56' 365--- I was able to round up a three deuce setup, I bought a trans adapter from wilcap and it runs a 700r4 auto... man it stumps so many know-it-all car guys thinking it is a 6cyl because of the flat head esque center cylinders sharing a common port, gets good attention and makes great reliable power, We went through the whole thing top to bottom....It was so full of rust and water that I spent one whole night banging out the pistons (had to bust the hell out of em)

[JOBCORP]

one more

[JOBCORP]

good power

[Rocky]

Having owned and raced both 324 Olds' and 316 and 347 Pontiacs...I'd go with an early poncho with the 4 speed hydro for a few reasons.
1.....they're used even less than the Olds yet they're available [here in the States]
2...they weigh less than the Olds.
3...they make more power. I know from whence I speak...usta race my Olds' against my buddy's Ponchos. I worked on both of em so I knew 'zactly what they had in their engines...I grew to love the pontiac engine more than the olds..
4... they use the light weight stamped steel rockers and big bore/short stroke for a much better winding engine. The olds kinda lumbers along with it's long stroke and heavy valve gear...
5..plenty of used speed equipt for the poncho and some stuff interchanges all the way up to the last pontiac engines [in '79] like cams, timing gears and chains, exhaust manifolds and headers, distributors and oil pumps....
6..they all look similar from the '55 Pontiac 287 to the torque monster 455.
This is a photo of my trusty old 1960 Pontiac 389. It's 0.030 over for a little over 395 cu. in. and with the later model muscle-car ram-air III cam and ported heads with 10 to one compression, it should make 340-350 HP. If I slid the old 1955 valve covers on it with the "Strato Streak" aluminum emblems and the original generator, it'd look like a '55 engine...

[metalshapes]

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And yeah Metalshapes you can here that thing whine while your flying down the road!!

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I did not realise that you could hear it that well untill you guys told me. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Henry Floored]

You want unusual? How about a `56 Lincoln 368 with Mark II finned aluminum valve covers. This engine will haul your truck around like it was'nt even there. They (in their earlier forms) kicked ass in the Carrera Pan-America races in the early fifties.

[bufordtjustice]

347 Poncho or 371 Olds would be cool...

[Benzine440]

I have derived much satisfaction from my Oldsmobile powered cars. Much bang for the buck.

They are durable, sturdy, reliable, and provide much torque just what you want for the street especially if you have a heavy car.

Olds motors run like I drive. So we match up. Ask yourself what kind of driving you doo. I seldom get to wind one up real tight to make it worth my trouble.

Just my opinion though. Subject to change next time the wind blows.

[thirtytwo]

looks 1959 to me ...i know a small chev cost big $$$$$ to build over there.... i cant imagine what a ,cad ,olds poncho ,or even hemi would cost over there..i know belly button.. blah blah blah.. they are used so much cause there as near to perfect as it gets ..compact and dependable.. and you can rebuild a whole 350 for what pistons would probley cost on anthing else....

[Stone]

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looks 1959 to me ...i know a small chev cost big $$$$$ to build over there.... i cant imagine what a ,cad ,olds poncho ,or even hemi would cost over there..i know belly button.. blah blah blah.. they are used so much cause there as near to perfect as it gets ..compact and dependable.. and you can rebuild a whole 350 for what pistons would probley cost on anthing else....

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I love this thread.I really dig those pics.That is one sweet lookin sbc setup.

[RocketDaemon]

aint a 392 hemi good enough for ya? haha run that sucker
its cool as hell and not that common

[RocketDaemon]

good point with the poncho engine rocky!

[redoxide]

Marq Hemis aint that commpn over here .. specially in 35/6 fenderless trucks. If i had a 392 hemi on the garage floor or the option of looking for a builder/cut out alternative, i would spend the doe on the HEMI ohhh yahhhh.....

[J Man]

I am going to be using a '55 Plymouth 260 Poly motor in my '25 T truck. When it is done it will not be a high HP motor but it will look cool.

[tommy]

http://fototime.com/%7BD60D04A5-6F5A-4AFF-B89B-03BD76440BC2%7D/picture.JPG
.
Dare to be different. Try a "rude-a-baker" I wouldn't be surprised if you couldn't find a good running rough 4 dr for less money than rebuilding a Caddy or Olds let alone a Hemi. The only people that are able to identify my mill had Studebakers in the past. (I've always wanted one of the little Dodge hemis-Red Ram?)

[hotrod54chevy]

one thing about the 50s mills is,get what you can..back then,if you could get a caddy V8 in your old 4 banger or just hop up your flat 6,do what you could..if all you can get is a SBC,aint nothin wrong with that,just dress it up and make it look purdy.not knockin all the other engines,if you can get somethin oddball,that's cool.whatever you get,just remember to make it look cool,and have fun with it!
creepy

[glassguy]

seems kinda funny that people going to such lengths to replicate the fiftys..guys bust my balls all the time for only using sbc's they say it aint old skool.being biult cheap is old skool to me!! spending all that $$$ on old motors is the equivelant to a rodder in the 50's puttin in a ww1 allison aircraft engine or somethin..nah they would have used what was cheap and fast.ie chevy!!!!!!!!!

[Bigcheese327]

Bigcheese being a school marm again: Allisons are WWII engines. You would mean a Liberty aircraft engine.

[glassguy]

my bad!!!! i guess no one will understand the point i was trying to make http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

[marq]

I understand your point exactly but i'm not trying to go max power i am trying to find out exactly what it was like to drive a fast 50's hotrod and the only way to do that is to build one exactly as it would have been built with the technology of the time and with a typical motor of the time that was considered state of the art at the time.I am into hotrods and history and the only way to live history sometimes is to try to recreate it.Untill i got my steel car i didnt realise for instance how much they rattle in comparison to a modern car ,most of my cars have had radial tires but this one has cross ply a completly different experience.If i wanted to build a fast cheap car today i would build something more modern just like our maxpower counterparts are doing,you may not like it but they are the modern version of what was going on in the 50's and to be honest i am not into that but i am into the 50's big time,i still understand your point though ........Marq

[flash]

What about a GMC six? Maybe that's more on the early 50s side. But you definitely do not seem them in hot rods very often. This is a 292 with supercharger, and another 272 in the background.

[Blownolds]

Pick up some old hot rod magazines from the era for ideas. For the most part, most hot rods in the '50's were powered by engines that were 3-5 years old at the time. Sure, there were some that got in richer guy's hot rods within a year of being new, but that wasn't often the case.

The comment on SBC's not being used as much... they actually weren't anywhere near as popular in '50's hot rods as were Olds and Caddy mills. Olds was one of the most popular hot rod engines being used from about '57-62 in hor rods. But that's not to say SBC's don't fit. They are fine for a late '50's rod, just not correct for an early '50's rod since they came out in '55. But whatever. Today's hot rods aren't always period correct, but rather a nice artistic mixture of what looks good, runs well, and fits the budget-- and whatever is laying around. Go for a SBC, but for '50's look, use the early heads and valve covers.