Best Cross Steer Box???

[burger]

I'm at a crossroad here.... I've decided to use a cross steer box in my coupe, but I can't decide if I should go with traditional or modern parts. Everything else that's visible is "correct", but the monkeys whispering in my ear tell me that I want the Vega box or it's death city for me. Scary as death city is, having an uncool car might be worse, so I thought I'd talk to some folks who've been there and come back to tell. Lemme ask this: what "correct" boxes work and what column would I have to use? I'd ultimately like to go with a "fancy" 50's wheel like maybe a '53 Buick... izzat possible with say a Ford box & column?


Thanks,
Ed

[Rocky]

Welp, Ed...I used a 39 ford passenger car steer box and column in my 33 ford pickup. Corncobcoupe told me he'd sell it to me for a fair price and it was approximately 12 times cheaper than I found any vega boxes for...plus it came with the locking ford column, complete with a key!
I was apprehensive but the steering box was in perfect condition. I hadda make a mount to attach it to the inside frame rail and now I wish I'd welded the mount a little further inside the rail. It'd given me some more room to clear the box with my flathead headers.
My 39 box was easy to steer with light effort and was quick too. I was surprised at the quickness and precision the old steering box had!
Also keep in mind the early ford column and shaft is fixed and you won't be able to solve engine clearance issues with wiggly U-joints and pillow blocks....unless you remove the mast-jacket [column] and run an exposed steering shaft.
The early fords up through '48, I believe, used a tapered, keyed shaft to attach the steering wheel. You can weld on a GM splined shaft-end to use a GM wheel.
Speedway offers an adapter to bolt a 3 hole aftermarket steering wheel to your keyed shaft and they have weld-on couplers to use a quick-disconnect race wheel but no splined adapter.

[choprods]

Ive used the box like Rocky said on several cars now Ed -and it works real well.
the best parts is thge ease of mounting,on my 29 I just left the tie rods all stock[1939 boxfrom a car]FORD]..and just turned the wheels to center and moved the box back towards the firewall till the pitman arm on the box would hook up [when centered] to the long tie rod link from the steering box over to the right spindle...ZERO MODIFICATIONS.
This m,ay be at the correct location where it all clears your engine with the steering column tube attached and uncut.
OR...it may involve cutting and a steering Ujoint to align the column with box to clear an engine part.........
I have the cross steer from the 47 Lincoln I used for a front axle and it looks much the same-just a heavier box -so Im sure there are several choices that would work fine for your car.-Good luck man....

[OGNC]

I put some serious miles on my stuff so I went Vega...

[burger]

Thanks for the replies, guys. Are any of the Ford boxes common enough that I could find rebuild parts? How "modern" are steering joints?


Thanks,
Ed

PS- OGNC, I may end up going with a Vega box. I'd rather use something older if I can.

PPS- Do all GM wheels have the same spline count & diameter?

[burger]

What year range did Ford use the cross-steer boxes? I did a quick search on eBay for some pictures, but came up blank on '39 boxes.


Thanks,
Ed

[Plowboy]

I like the idea of using the new rack and pinion cross steer that Speedway has. If they would have had it last year, I would have one in my truck. My steering is a little "busier" than I would like on some roads due to the bias play tires, and the box is as tight as a virgin on prom night. I think that would eliminate some of the wander.

I am sure some naysayers will talk about how uncool it is or untraditional, but I have put 5000 miles on mine so far this summer, and I wish I had that box instead of the column I used.

[AHotRod]

Vega box.

[Bruce Lancaster]

Ford boxes for '37-48 car, pickup to 41 are all the same internally and all parts are available easily. Shaft lengths differ a bit.
I think a solid shaft is a clear visual distinction between a hot rod and a street rod--but those ujoints can save you if there's no room. Early rodders frequently performed ghastly radical surgery trying to fit steering into cars with wide engine swaps...
I think box ratio is around 17-1, don't have any books here, and lots of different arms of different lengths will fit right up into the seventies.

[32viper]

[ QUOTE ]
I like the idea of using the new rack and pinion cross steer that Speedway has. If they would have had it last year, I would have one in my truck. My steering is a little "busier" than I would like on some roads due to the bias play tires, and the box is as tight as a virgin on prom night. I think that would eliminate some of the wander.

I am sure some naysayers will talk about how uncool it is or untraditional, but I have put 5000 miles on mine so far this summer, and I wish I had that box instead of the column I used.

[/ QUOTE ]

I did use the rack and pinion after I got tired of chasing the vega box on my roadster. Then again on my coupe. It give a much better feel of control at speed. After all, we do update our hot rods don't we?

[Andy]

I have just had a Vega and a "40"box apart. The difference in quality is staggering. The Ford box is built like a transmission. The Vega looks like it is overstressed for a Go Cart. The "40" box was the box of choice until the Vega for cross steering. The "40" has the same internals as the F-1. I have replaced the Vega box twice in my roadster because I wore them out. I am going to use the "40" next time. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[burger]

On the 37-39 box, it appears that the input and output shafts are perpendicular. If this is the case, how can the steering column be mounted at an angle with the arm still running in a horizontal plane??? Anyone have a picture?


Thanks,
Ed

[Bruce Lancaster]

Poke around here a bit:
http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/flathead_drawings_steeringear.htm
I hadn't thought about it, but I don't believe it (or later Chevies, either, for that matter) is really parallel to the ground. The arms do curve up a bit, however. The oddball '49 type box has a 45 degree setup, but don't go there--I believe parts are a problem.
However Ford didit works fine.
Take a look at a Model T cross steer someday--planetary gears with pitman on end of shaft! More Ford parapsychological design!

[burger]

Bruce,

Whoa! That website's quite the resource.

I can see how the perpendicular 37-48 cross steer box would minimize bump steer, but it seems that a 45° design like the 49-51 steering box would be better. How does the steering linkage tolerate the angle? Is the arm bent up at the end?

What's wrong with the 49-51 gear? It looks like the pitman arm is facing in the opposite direction of what you would want. Is that the problem?

So far I have to say that the Vega box looks far superior and itself isn't a bad looking unit. It looks like a cast steering box. The steering u-joints are modern looking, as is the steering shaft running through the engine bay.


Ed

[sawzall]

[ QUOTE ]

PPS- Do all GM wheels have the same spline count & diameter?


[/ QUOTE ]

ed

I believe so...
and for what its worth I'd go with a brand new vega box.. you dont want to tempt fate with any used steering parts..


jeff

[Detonator]

Ed -- AV8 posted a real good how-to on servicing the '40 Ford box about three weeks ago. They're easy to do, rock solid, and there's something to say for keeping your front end all Ford. I'm running a 40 in my 28, but to get around the Nailhead engine I opted to cut the mast off at the box, spline it, and connect up to the '38 column I'm using with a couple of U-joints. While not totally old-school, it does solve lots of problems. IMHO there's nothing as dopey looking as a column and steering wheel coming up into the cab at some whacky angle.

[Killer]

[ QUOTE ]
After all, we do update our hot rods don't we?

[/ QUOTE ]

No.

40 box. I'll take a picture of how I did the header later if you'd like.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v195/akakiller56/steeringbox1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v195/akakiller56/steeringbox2.jpg

[haring]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
After all, we do update our hot rods don't we?

[/ QUOTE ]

No.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hehe. Well said.

Knowing Ed, I can assure everyone out there that as much as he appreciates the suggestions (he really is a nice guy), he wouldn't want to run a rack and pinion set-up. What's kind of funny to me is that Ed is actually building a Chevy, with Chevy power, but that's a can of worms I won't open.
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Thanks for asking this question, Ed. I'll look forward to more posted solutions. And if anyone can post more pictures, us "visual" guys would really soak it up.

Thanks,
don

[FeO2]

Ed, FWIW I have a vega box on the 35Chevy and I'm not too thrilled with it.Steers kinda slow if you ask me. Maybe a longer pitman arm would speed things up but would probably be hard on the box.The mustang box was popular for a long time.Not bad looking but i've never used one.The 38'delivery has rack & pinion but the fenders hide it well.It's the shit for high speed crusing.

[burger]

Jason,

The picture I'd really appreciate would be a shot of the pitman arm, the drag link, your steering arm, and how it all connects. Does your steering arm have two holes or are you using one of those crazy ball joints that have a hole for a second ball joint?


Thanks,
Ed

PS- How well does it work?

[burger]

[ QUOTE ]
and there's something to say for keeping your front end all Ford.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ha! If you only knew the half of it...


Ed

[Rocky]

FeO2 said hard on....

[Rocky]

Hey Killah! When I modified the front tube of my headers to clear my '39 steering box, I used an old exhaust manifold as a jig. If I remember, I hadda use the right manifold and bolted the left header directly to it with nuts and bolts. Cut the tube out and everything stayed in place for me to fab up a new tube. I used about 5 different pieces to make a snakey tube to clear...worked great and when I bolted the modified header on the engine, all the holes lined up perfectly again.

[Blownolds]

Concerning the comments on the wearing out of the Vega boxes... don't the aftermarket Falaming River or Mullins boxes have better internals than the GM box? I am planning on using a quick-ratio aluminum Flaming River vega box on my '40, for the light weight, the polished look, and the quick ratio, but I hate to hear that $450+ would just buy a flimsy box. I would think they would be better inside, wouldn't they?

[ABone312]

I'm using a Vega box on mine, it works fine, I've driven it a little over 15,000 miles in the past year. I chose it because it is functional. No one has ever looked at my coupe and said "Vega box, universal joints, that's not a hot rod, that's not cool". If they did, I'd tell them to fuck off, they're a dumbass. Use what you want, they both work. If you want a total period correct car, use the early Ford box. If that doesn't matter to you, go Vega. It's your car, don't worry about what other people might say about your era incorrectness. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Killer]

Ed, I forgot to take pictures for you. I will tomorrow.

They work really well and you can get em for a song (I've never paid for a 40 box, they're not cool enough I guess...)

Rocky, good idea on the header. I usually tack em to the welding table and weld away.