ANY pics of the Elusive Alternator in a Generator case? [Archive]

ESnacky6

09-19-2004, 12:36 AM

POWERMASTER is WORKING on one of those RIGHT NOW....

I OVERHEARD the rep TALKING TO somebody at the Goodguys
Pleasanton CAR SHOW a couple weeks AGO....

He said HOPEFULLY by SEMA (I think it was..?) they'll have a
PROTOTYPE, then they'll go into PRODUCTION from there....

you could EMAIL them to ASK what's up...
THEY might even have PRETTY PICTURES for you to LOOK AT too....

www.powermastermotorsports.com (http://www.powermastermotorsports.com)

does THAT help any MORE..?? with the CAPITAL letters..??

just TRYING to HELP out....

oldchevyseller

09-19-2004, 12:41 AM

the post was about stuffing it in a diferent electric motor case then fabbing mounts for the generator bracket, they useda little mitsubushi alt,i did a searcjh , the companies that make the conversions are spendy

choprods

09-19-2004, 12:47 AM

I got a new alternator[16 bucks] from an'81Tercel-pretty small but not that small.
If you have a Mini alternator how about letting us in on what its from and its DIAMETER..........[I was gonna say if you have a real small one-show us] but thought better of it..... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

oldchevyseller

09-19-2004, 01:02 AM

Part # 8162 is the smallest Powermaster alternator. the body is only 93 mil, around thats under 4 inches

fab32

09-19-2004, 01:05 AM

Get ahold of Motor City Flathead. They have one that's a new manufacture. The case is new design and the internals are new. It's also a bit shorter so it can be used with some of the 2X2 flathead intakes.

Frank

oldchevyseller

09-19-2004, 01:05 AM

you could make that fit in a case

oldchevyseller

09-19-2004, 01:13 AM

http://electrotech.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=E&Product_Code =AC&Category_Code=PAS

try these guys also

Rocky

09-19-2004, 03:30 AM

Still can't get that old 348 to charge with the generator, eh Kenny? Why not paint the Toyota alternator black, mount it down underneath and just run the sumbitch? I know it ain't "Traditional" but you could finish out the season with the roadster before it gets too cold to drive it.
If you open the hood on my pontiac, you'll find fabric covered original wiring on my flathead 6 but you'll also find a shiny new 1 wire GM alternator. I hate walking.
..........although, I did save the functioning 6 volt generator, regulator and battery for when I slide that old flathead 6 into my 22 dodge lakes modified project....

choprods

09-19-2004, 11:33 AM

No Rocky- Im Generator POOR!-I have three now and two are good ones-its charging now so I dont have to do anything for the present.
I am planning the winters improvements thats all.......Generator is cool but aint reliable enough for my taste.
also ya gotta carry a spare and a spare regulator as many parts stores just give a blank stare and poit to the GASHonda motorhome type stationary generators when you ask! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
ALSO THE TRIPOWER IS HISTORY . http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gifiTS ON eBAY now AND SELLIN!
AND WHILE I'M IN THE SELLIN' MOOD THE bias TIRES ARE ON EBAY TOO! IT JUST TAKES A SHORT TIME ALONGSIDE THE HIGHWAY TO TALK SOME SENSE INTO ME! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

choprods

09-19-2004, 11:35 AM

ISN'T THAT JUST A HONDA ACCORD ALTERNATOR PAINTED BLACK WITH THEIR NAME STICKER?

hotrod54chevy

09-19-2004, 03:23 PM

umm,i'm sure plenty of people have said this before,but..why not just RUN a generator or alternator?i know everyone wants to look trad and all that silliness,but come on.paying big $$ for a conversion kit or taking the risk of it over heating doesnt sound wise to me.but oh well.whatever floats your boat,i guess.just my 2 cents
creepy

GomezGarage

09-19-2004, 03:40 PM

Traditional is cool but reliability is cooler.

yorgatron

09-19-2004, 04:44 PM

i've gone thousands of miles with generators,reliably.

skipperman

09-19-2004, 04:58 PM

60 .... I talked to that guy ..the price is MUCH more than the 400 stated....he said $1000 or MORE !!!!! ( but it WAS a tach-drive generator).

jersey skip

choprods

09-19-2004, 04:59 PM

I have too Yorgatron- but Ive gone a lot more with an alternator and I like that feelin!
Also its a sick feelin when you lay into it and then see those bronzy lookin brushes hangin out of the end of the case by the copper wires! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

choprods

09-19-2004, 05:03 PM

Yeah J'-Skip...thats what I was afraid Id hear.....when the aftermarket "street rod" entrepeneurs ,take it upon themselves to solve our little problems - we should just immediately GRAB OUR ASS! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
its like an extension of the goodguys mentality-why cant they be happy to just double or triple their build costs? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

tommy

09-19-2004, 05:42 PM

http://fototime.com/{0128A595-689C-4A07-8A8C-57661CE11485}/picture.JPG http://fototime.com/{7727D4B1-BDFA-440C-B09A-E0B76C2AB4A9}/picture.JPG
.

here is mine. I don't know what alternator is in it. It was an Ebay item but they do exist.

Also when did generators become so unreliable? I think the diodes in an alternator are less reliable than a generator. If it's got a million miles on it and it breaks does that make it unreliable? To each his own but I don't recall generators being a problem unless they had lots of miles on them. Same as an alternator. They don't charge at idle and they don't put out enough for the modern conveniences but they didn't break down until they were old and needed a rebuild just like the engine in your hot rod. After a 100,000 miles people rebuild the engine, put the old generator back on and then bitch if it finally fails. They didn't bitch about the engine wearing out. A rebuilt generator should give you 50-60K miles. A junk yard/flea market replacement probably needs a rebuild too. Just my worthless opinion.

choprods

09-19-2004, 07:35 PM

Yes Tommy I kinda agree to a point....all Im saying is there are few NEW GENERATORS and yes you can turn the armature down and rebuild em Im aware of the process- been thru it several times and am sick of being ready to drive my car and its got a dead battery.
You fellows who love em are more than welcome to mine after I switch to an alternator- I see you did too Tommy.... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Kevin Lee

09-20-2004, 10:58 AM

Kenny - Why even bother hiding the alt. if you're going to run radials on that roadster? Tell you what - I'll bring some of my daughter's old stuffed animals to dress up your car at the Goodguys this weekend. I KNOW you're going to be there. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Serious - If you head out to check the swap or anything try to stop by the house - I should be around all weekend.

Flat Ernie

09-20-2004, 01:44 PM

As has been mentioned, the Electrotech stuff isn't cheap. About a year ago, someone posted on BillB's MSN site that he'd returned his twice because it kept burning up. He posted pics of the insides of the thing, but I've just been through 18mo of posts over there & can't find it & didn't save the pics.

I think the heat is an issue, but might be remedied with one of Red's finned generator covers...just a guess, but it would look good!

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Turbopackman

09-20-2004, 08:16 PM

Check out http://www.uncommonengineering.com/index.html
Scroll down to "gen-alt", it's his version of a rice alternator in an old generator housing. Only puts out 40a, I wonder if you could put TWO alternators in one to increase the output?

Eric

choprods

09-20-2004, 08:23 PM

Grimlok-Im jus a POZER ya know so it's in the cards that I run an alternator http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif-and yes Im lookin for a supersized ALF http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gifstuffed doll to hide my paint flaws.........OH OH OH!And also a Kermit the Frog one to cover my botched seat job......... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

I am prob not gonn be goin to that fiasco so better plan alternate time for BS session with us two!

choprods

09-20-2004, 08:26 PM

turbo packman- a Harley generator only puts out 19 amps......my roadster isnt loaded with any more that a harleys options so I believe 35 amps would do it for mine!

Jeff Norwell

09-20-2004, 09:08 PM

A fella in my club used a geo storm alt....real tiny....on his flat motor...I will try to get more info.

Bruce Lancaster

09-20-2004, 09:30 PM

I don't buy the unreliable generator story either, although speed does need to be kept reasonable--and at least for flatheads, the different size pulleys are out there to raise or lower that for whatever.
I've never had a real electrical failure with these, and I've never needed to do anything other than greasing or even changing bearing and bushings and installing new brushes, tossing the old ones in the car as spares. All my usage was with mechanical regulators, and now solid state ones are out there.
I could say the same about alternators --both common series 1960's and 70's GM ones run 200,000 miles or so and then die--I suspect from just sheer wear on brushes and rings rather than anything truly electrical.

Bruce Lancaster

09-20-2004, 09:31 PM

Also, flathead ones charge right off idle--if you are running everything at once in heavy traffic, you're ready--see the throttle knob there? Pullitout about 1/4".

visor

09-20-2004, 10:07 PM

Kenny,
I guess if you were trying for a 50's period
hotrod, you would just have to run a generator.
Just tell everyone its a early 60's piece. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Thats makes the alternator right on.
1962 348's and 409's...came with alts right?
I know the 283's and 327's did.
Its just how ya present it.
Problem solved! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Did ya really take off those "Safety Thread" 16" rears?
Those are very kool. I might have to check out ebay
for those. I"ve got matching 15" for the front.
------------------------------------------------------
"OPOSSUM BENDERS"
Central Mo. Chapter

choprods

09-20-2004, 11:57 PM

Yeah Visor I am going for a sixties show car look[hence no flatmotor and a W motor instead AND with an open rear end] -BRIGHT gold paint with flake in it and white PLEATED interior.itS STILL IN PROGRESS-i PLAN ON HAVING IT DONE FOR NEXT SUMMER.
I AM taking the bias tires off and selling as a set of four only.
I really dont care if it fits the mold of a period peice THAT much,when it comes to something that leaves me stranded.
Once aint too bad maybe-but that second time It's broke its gone!
My bad experience with generators was on old 283-327's and they will rev high enough to throw the brushes out as I mentioned.Flatheads would have better luck in that area.

Brad54

09-21-2004, 12:14 AM

Here's my limited thinking on generators:
I spent $70 to have mine "rebuilt." Turned out to be new brushes and a rattle can paint job. It smoked on Friday night two weeks after putting it in.
Old mom & pop parts store had one on the shelf. He schooled me: Showed me his, and the windings were all shiney!
A truely rebuilt generator will have new armeture, brushes, bearings, etc. and will last for years, reliably--just like they did when new. Generators weren't a service replacement part like air filter elements and brake shoes.

Also, I've discovered that luxury cars of the time that came with lots of options (power windows, seats, A/C, etc.) had generators and voltage regulators that put out a bit more juice than the straight six el stripo models.

Finally, the early GM performance engines (283HP 283, 409s, etc.) had generators with deep groove pulleys and big bearing front and rear plates. Again, a bit spendy, perhaps, but they're out there. The larger pulleys also reduced the generator's RPM. Companies like Classic Chevy, etc. carry all the parts to rebuild these generators, and I think these are the same type used on Chryslers of the period: ie, 354 and 392s.

All just for what it's worth.
And on my '54 Buick with A/C and a radio, the really rebuilt generator did a good job--the lights never dimmed at the stop light, etc.
-Brad

choprods

09-21-2004, 12:23 AM

Good points Brad54-I am running a 54 Buick generator for now and its working[my only requirement] http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I am painfully aware of the availability deal.
I would consider buyng another GENERATOR -IF it were NOS GM or something convinces me it IS a new one.
its like an old man told me once and it rings true in a lot of cases-["it's not BAD-it's Just been good too long"!] http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I suspect that many "rebuilds" are performed with the same amount of quality you described.-Ill keep gathering info and will make a decision later as to the fate of which one Ill end up using.........

Turbopackman

09-21-2004, 12:58 AM

I added that in there for the guys that have to have a/c, power windows, 4000000watt stereo, HID headlights, electric fan, etc. I mean if you expect a 40amp alt/gen to handle this load, forget it. Imagine this scene, you're driving down the road at night, in the rain, with your radio blasting "The Big Bopper's Wedding", and decide to turn on the heater. You better hope that all these don't add up to more than 40 amps, 'cause your in serious trouble. It doesn't matter if you have a 100 amp alt, if all you're using is 50 amps or so, the alt will only put out 50 amps, once the battery is recharged. Just don't go anything less.

Eric

8th grade genius

09-21-2004, 01:04 AM

I dont know if anyone has mentioned it yet, but there is a company that makes an altenator that is built into the water pump. I dont know what engine your running but I have seen them for sbc and fords used in IMCA cars. Also check out small industrial engines Kubota especially. I know that the Kubota WG750 and the D905 has an extremely small altenator that is externaly regulated its about the diameter of a coke can. hope this helps.

tommy

09-21-2004, 07:47 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Yes Tommy I kinda agree to a point....all Im saying is there are few NEW GENERATORS and yes you can turn the armature down and rebuild em Im aware of the process- been thru it several times and am sick of being ready to drive my car and its got a dead battery.
You fellows who love em are more than welcome to mine after I switch to an alternator- I see you did too Tommy.... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually it's for sale. I sold the blower that needed this type of gen. I really bought it for the old chrome body. New chrome looks like new chrome. I know I'm goofy! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

I'm not on any crusade to save generators. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Run what you like but generators are not any more prone to failure than alternators. All 97's don't leak, all flatheads don't over heat and all generators aren't failure prone. Maybe that's my crusade. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I did have to replace the voltage regulator on my 57 wagon http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif It only had 76,000 miles on it. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif The generator was fine. I polished the commutator just because I had it apart to check it.

I can put up with a lot of shit but my cars have to start and stop.

A suggestion...put a fuseable link in the 10 ga. wire. I had an alternator short out internally. That 10 ga. wire carried all the amperage of a direct short from the battery back to the alternator. It melted all the wires next to it in the harness and might have burned down the truck if I hadn't yanked the harness out breaking the circuit and burning my hand. It's cheap insurance.

swissmike

09-21-2004, 11:09 AM

I just finished a conversion. I used a mitsubishi generator which was actually a little bigger than the generator case and I also ended up making a new generator case, pullley and fan extension.
I will post a how-to TECH POST this week.
Here is a picture of the beast...

choprods

09-21-2004, 02:46 PM

I was eyeing a VW alternator[built kinda long] from a beetle-anybody have one to measure its sizes?

Flat Ernie

09-21-2004, 03:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Only puts out 40a

[/ QUOTE ]

Who the hell needs 40A?

[ QUOTE ]
I added that in there for the guys that have to have a/c, power windows, 4000000watt stereo, HID headlights, electric fan, etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, yer one of them...don't think that's quite traditional. Not frowning upon it, but if you're sticking to a generator because it's "period correct" you ain't gonna be running that kinda draw. If you want to run that kind of a draw, you're probably not the kind who is prone to use generators.

They're not mutually exclusive, but damn close...

And FWIW, 40A is a fair amount of current.

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Turbopackman

09-21-2004, 07:58 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Only puts out 40a

[/ QUOTE ]

Who the hell needs 40A?

[ QUOTE ]
I added that in there for the guys that have to have a/c, power windows, 4000000watt stereo, HID headlights, electric fan, etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, yer one of them...don't think that's quite traditional. Not frowning upon it, but if you're sticking to a generator because it's "period correct" you ain't gonna be running that kinda draw. If you want to run that kind of a draw, you're probably not the kind who is prone to use generators.

They're not mutually exclusive, but damn close...

And FWIW, 40A is a fair amount of current.

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

It's all good until you exceed the amount your generator puts out. No, I don't have a lot of bs on my car, just lights, ignition, and a simple radio. I was just stating the fact that some people don't think when they put something on their car, and get pissed when it fails. FWIW, I'm using a generator off of a 1956 Chrysler Hemi, with the built in power steering pump. And it's only about 40amps, too.

Eric

Jimv

09-21-2004, 08:10 PM

I think the only picture of one is in the smithsonian institute, right next to the Jar with John Dillingers Dick!!, next to the 64 chevy that a chick drove that said"if you beat me you can eat me" on the trunk.
jimV

choprods

09-21-2004, 10:10 PM

Yeah I have this list of options on my roadster
STUFFED ALF DOLL with red eyes that light up when real HOTRodders in turquoise T-Tubs get near where I park...... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
2 headlites with dim and bright
tail stop and turn lites.
YEP 40 AMPS WOULD KEEP UP HERE FINE.....

Phil1934

09-21-2004, 10:17 PM

Check out Mercruiser offerings. I know their 470 has a 289 snout and the alternator is built into the balancer. The water pump one is the same deal. I think Mercruiser has gotten away from that sort of thing as they don't put out a lot of amps and cost about $300. Looks just like the charging system for electric start mower engines.

rat bastad

09-21-2004, 11:43 PM

Guys this qun might be a little O/T but will a fresh 35A Alt handle a basic car with lights (non halogen h/lamps), small elec pump, small stereo, and other std electrics ?

Rat http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

choprods

09-22-2004, 12:36 AM

RAT BASTAD-I believe if you go into a parts store and ask for an alternator for a 6 cylinder 71 Nova thats what you woulkd leave with,,,,you know it has lights a radio and heater etc probably so it should be close in output for a lot of cars like ours.

Tman

09-22-2004, 01:05 AM

HEY! That T tub comment hits a little close to home! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

FWIW, I just threw a bunck of Generators in the dumpster after last weeks swap, couldnt even get anyone to look at them! I kept the gennie 55 Chevy one though

I am running a generator cause I can buy one in Pukwana South Dakota on Sunday afternoon.

choprods

09-22-2004, 08:54 AM

That couldnt be about a friend whose cars is BLUE........ http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
A generator would probaly do me just fine and in the end MAY BE what I end up staying with...I do however think that the alternator in the Generator case is a neat deal and an improvement in reliability.
I always used to ruin the regulators even on the external regulator alternator cars by having them on the firewalland CAR WASHING them to death-back then http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
On this car I am running the regulator under the pass side of dash.

EricE

09-22-2004, 10:28 AM

I was the rep at Goodguys, If anyone has any old operable or non-operable generators that I can have or borrow send me a PM. I'll send a call tag to get it shipped to us, and make sure it gets back to you. It has been near impossible to find generators around here.

We're trying to get some units to take measurements. And looking for input on what kind of capacity you guys might need, or styles that might make more sense than others.

Thanks
Eric

choprods

09-22-2004, 01:25 PM

Those first five words in the sentence may hurt more than help Eric........ http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gifdepending on who you are talking to.
Id say you'd want one that would fit a flathead and the two lengths[at least2] of Delco's for GM's
and a ford and a Mopar size cases to start,for a good selection.......
Also have you though of using "stepped down"[to match appearance]thinwall[16ga] tubing for the housing to aid cooling and reduce weight?

EricE

09-23-2004, 11:13 AM

How could that possible hurt?? :-)

The thing I ampushing for is to get something that is not outrageously expensive. The units I have seen so far look to be in the $300 to $400 price range, seems a bit high to me. Right now I'm just looking for input.

choprods

09-23-2004, 11:16 AM

some people dont think goodguys is a good thing.

EricE

09-23-2004, 11:27 AM

Oh, ok. I was there for work, not to show. With as many shows as I end up going to to work, I am about sick of Billet.

Bruce Lancaster

09-23-2004, 12:14 PM

For Fords, there are several endplates needed, but I believe the case area is more-or-less interchangeable 1940-64. I would think that you could manufacture essentially a piece of thinwall pipe containing an alt that would fit onto the purchasers endplates on nearly any roddable Ford. The shaft should have longer than stock threaded area and a keyway, so it would fit both types of Ford pulley--threaded spin on pulley 1940-48, pulley plus key and nut for later ones. A stack of shims would allow adjustment of pulley location, and you'd need no original parts to sell.