Super Secret Snapshots- World's Largest Pontiac V-8

[Scotch]

Most of you know me as the guy building the Buick Straight 8 to urge my traditional custom-styled '50 Buick. While that's true, I've got some other stuff going together, too.

I'm an engine guy. I love engines...the crazier, the better. It takes more than a crate motor to get my attention. It takes some pretty crazy shit to keep it.

The S-8 should be evidence of this. But in case it's not, I'd like to give you guys a sneal peek at another creation I'm brewing up....namely, the Worlds Largest Pontiac V-8, which will be powering my '65 GTO.

With a 4.375-inch bore and a 5-inch stroke, it displaces 601 cubic inches.

It's coming together after years (literally) of effort. Most of the pieces have had to be custom crafted. It's been difficult and expensive to create, which is why I dig it. A labor of love, to be sure. I worked with some of the greatest in it's creation, and I could never take full credit for it. However, it is mine, and I'm the one who wanted to do it, so I feel proud anyway.

Here's some pics and I hope they come out okay.

[Scotch]

In the above pic, you see the tunnel ram I felt was necessary to feed it. The Wenzler tunnel ram base has been topped with a filtered bugcather, and I'm not completely satisfied with its appearance yet. I think I'll make the butterflies larger. It does have a filter element inside, which may or may not work okay. We'll see.

Here's another view:

[Scotch]

I knew it would take more than a typical Pontiac head to feed this many cubes, and even teh aftermarket Edelbrock head wasn't enough. I worked with Butler Performance on these- note the huge ports (for a Pontiac). The only way they could be made so big was to fill the pushrod holes, and extend the width of the port over to where the pushrods used to live. A set of offset rocker arms will be used to allow the pushrods to pass outside of these big-ass ports and work just fine.

[Scotch]

You can see the filled pushrod holes here.

[Scotch]

Just for flash, the heads and intake have been polished. The belt drive will make for easy cam timing adjustments and eliminate any harmonics from being trasferred from the crank to the cam (a big solid roller).

This is all top-secret stuff, so don't tell anyone.

Power figures on pump gas are all estimates now. But, it should crank out 750 easy horses all day at less than 5,500 rpm. With a billet crank, forged rods, and custom pistons, it's capable of running hard all day (teh car is being built for Silver State and One-Lap kind of road racing events in addition to street driving).

Oh, and there's the 400-horse nitrous system...

That's over 1,000 hp on pump gas at less than 6,500 rpm.

I intend to bolt some slicks on for quarter-mile fun, too.

First, I need to get this thing lit. It's getting painfully close. I'm waiting on the rockers and some other minor stuff, and then we'll have it ready to go.

For you metric types, this is ten liters of pissed off Poncho. Its got more displacement in one cylinder than some Hondas have in four.

Shhhh....you didn't hear about it yet, okay?

Scotch~!

[BARNETT]

Man, that is tough!! Amazing work...I'm usually doin pretty good to do a tune up on my motors.

By the way...that was post # 666. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif Must be a really evil motor.
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[burndup]

damn, that is SICK, I hope to hear that thing someday!

[fatassbuick]

Drool, drool. This must be for the super top secret Silver State Classic. I won't say a word. flamedabone is gonna be jealous.

[safariknut]

Just what I need to fill the engine compartment in my 57 Safari! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[flt-blk]

[ QUOTE ]
(the car is being built for Silver State and One-Lap
kind of road racing events in addition to street driving).
Scotch~!

[/ QUOTE ]

Now you have piqued my interest. What is the supposed
motor going into again, I assume there have been a few
suspension adjustments as well?????
TZ

[LoungeLife]

Silver State huh? - what's it going to power? Always wanted to run silver state.

That plant is sick sick sick - congrats!

[repoguy]

Holy Crap!

That is killer!

[daveydeuce]

Now that is what I needed back in 1960 when I took the 312 out of my 57 Bird and put in a 389/4speed!! Do you think anyone would have known?? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif <font color="red"> </font> Dave

[FONZI]

Yep,
You are nuts! I gotta here that damn thing!


FONZI

[OldsRanch]

Kick Ass!!!!!

I'll trade you my 1959 389 Poncho with 2 mangled rods ...straight across!

[32viper]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm an engine guy. I love engines...the crazier, the better. It takes more than a crate motor to get my attention. It takes some pretty crazy shit to keep it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ditto! Flamedabone is the only dude I know that has never owned a SBC and I'm trying to keep him that way. Great engine. Let us know how it runs.

[Broman]

I for one have been waiting for a long time to see this engine come to realty. It's been a long wait for me - I can't imagine what it was like for you.

Maybe this will spawn engine builders to look outside of the normal builds and build beyond the confines of an engine's "limitations". This is proof (to me at least) that anything is possible.

Here's to hoping that a Poncho wins the Engine Master's Challenge.....(I can dream can't I?)

Question, did you use the engine coatings that were being discussed elswhere? And will this reach feature status in your article? - I am framing that issue.....

Between this and the I8 you gotta be about broke now....

[Broman]

I just remembered that I was going to ask you if you were going to put the build-up of the Goat on any of the other message boards that I am always bumping into you? The musclecar crowd will be stupified....

[Tubby]

Cool project, what block did you use? Looks like the Pontiac aftermarket is finally growing.

[bufordtjustice]

That is one helluva motor man. Good for you for making a badass poncho!

Greg

[296 V8]

Impressive, I want one. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[choprods]

Hi Scotch- And I thought we had the biggest Pontiac V-8 Right here in town.....a 1957 GMC 2Ton Ladder truck with an aledged 500 Cu In PONTIAC-[truck only] Gas engine.Any truth to that amount of cu inches, or have they HooDoo'd me on that figure? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif anyone know?

[fab32]

That's a bad ass powerplant. Is there one Pontiac factory part on it? If that's going in a GTO for the street hope you made provisions for some rubber out back http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Frank

[Church]

Get back to the laboratory and finish it up. That's shit's crazy!

[SamIyam]

Pontiac motors usually sound like SHIT when run with open headers... but I bet that baby will sound better.

What kind of car is it going in?
Sam.

[Travis]

[ QUOTE ]
namely, the Worlds Largest Pontiac V-8, which will be powering my '65 GTO.

[/ QUOTE ]

And there you have it!

Travis

[Roothawg]

You're sick.

[flamedabone]

601 cubes? PUSSY MOTOR!!

Just shittin you, bro. I feel like a long lost friend of the proud papa. I've followed this from a distance..waiting..expecting...

This girl you have created paves the way for "regular" guys like me to go out and whup the shit out of the Chevvies.

Kill em with cubes.

So we'll see you at the '05 HAMB Drags, right?

YOU spot ME a carlength.

Nice work, -Abone.

[Thirdyfivepickup]

I'm guessing an Indian Adventures block, no?

Can't wait to see the finished product all buttoned up.

(I agree... the butterflies look a tad small on the bugcatcher.)

[OldCarPilot]

Wow!

[Rocky]

Holy CRAP! That just blows me away.

[Baumi]

Wow, that´s freakin´awesome!
I ´ve just imagined what it would be like driving an engine like yours over here in Germany, where the most common engines have less than 1,8 liters of displacement and less torque than an electric tooth brush. Most of the guys are already impressed when I tell them that my 62 chevy has about 4,6 liters(283ci http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif). And they won´t get it anymore when they see my 56 chevy with 5.4 liters/327ci hahahaha!

That six o´one rocks!

Well done! Thanks for giving me something to dream of!

Chris

[Scotch]

Yes, it's the Indian Adventures iron block w/ a half-inch higher deck height, and plenty of added fortitude (an identical block is in Rodney Butlers twin-turbo'ed Pro Mod, which has pushed over 1,800 hp and run 6.90 in the quarter). Rodney's displaces like 500 cubes. The Butlers are now selling (or are close to selling) aluminum versions of this same block.

The IA block can take a 5-inch stroke with no mods. If one were to want more stroke, it could be done with the usual clearancing. The cam is raised and there's plenty of room.

I thought 5 inches of stroke would be plenty.

The bore could go over 4.400, so I kept mine at 4.375 to allow for future expansion. Lots of meat in there...

The crank is a custom billet unit from Moldex. Insane in its design and capale of supporting enough torque to alter the earth's axis.

I've already been accused of being too conservative with it by shooting for "only" 1,000 hp on squeeze and keeping it at around 750 N/A. There's so much more in there if I want it..

But, the car is going to need to run all day leaning on the torque curve, so I want durability and ample grunt at wiil.

Several have asked about the car it's headed for. Here's a quick rundown:

65 GTO
'glass front fenders, hood, deck lid, and bumpers
6-point S&amp;W cage installed (front chassis downbars may be added soon)
Rear susp is NASCAR-style truckarm by Hotrods to Hell shop in Burbank, Ca
Front susp is Hotchkis B-body (Caprice, Impala SS) conversion w/ Baer Racing discs &amp; 4-piston calipers
Rear axle is Currie Ford 9-in w/ matching Baer discs
Trans is 4L80-E by JET w/ 6 gear ranges (O/D is engaged after first, second and thrid as a gear splitter)
I'm working on getting shift buttons installed in the steering wheel for instant up- and downshifts
Tires will be 17s and 18s as wide as I can stuff...probably 265s front and 295s rear (I'm doing some massaging to tuck these).

I'll run a pair of 9- or 10-inch slicks at the drags.

Because the rear is a Ford 9, gear chages take about 30-45 min. I have 3 different gearsets already (from 2.76 to 4.56) and may get more if I need em'. I've also got a clutch-type diff and a Detroit Locker, and I may get a TrueTrac also. I'm not sure which rear will be the best depending on where its running.

Should be a good all-around performance car that can be driven anywhere, kick total ass, and be driven home again on pump gas. That was the goal from day 1, and I knew it'd take some kind of crazy engine to pull it off. I really wanted to do it with a Pontiac, since I've always loved em' and have had good luck with them. Pontiacs just plain make power easily on the street, and I just dig being different.

I was hoping to keep the engine underhood, but it's grown more than I first anticipated. I'd also considered trying to design some kind of scoop that would mimic the factory '65 GTO hoodscoop, hoping to have it fit flush when the hood was closed (like a later Trans Am) and look "stock" from a distance. No luck. Not enough room, and the inlets wouldn't be large enough.

Sorry to go on with all this musclecar stuff...I know it's not traditional hot rod or custom info..and it wouldn't be here if I wasn't asked to post it.

Being a horsepower junkie, my tastes stretch into the musclecar era, and while many here see these cars as anti-hot rod, I see them as another verse to the same song. A different mood, maybe.

I just dig old Amercian cars from the pre-'30s to the early '70s, and just about nothing afterwards.

(I would drive a Grand National though...)

I hope to build this GTO to eat anything, anywhere. I want it to run 10s in the quarter and touch 200 at Silver State...on pump gas. I may even drag it out to Bonneville one time and set it on "kill"...just to see what it'll do on the very top end.

That's a hot rod by my definition. Your opinions may vary, and you're welcome to disagree...but if you were sitting next to me in the GTO with your 5-point harness snug, and we encountered a Ferarri on the freeway or a turbo'ed Honda at a stoplight, I bet I could change your mind...

I'm trying to build cars no one will ever forget...landmark cars that draw a line in the sand and dare others to go further...cars that push the limits of engineering and sanity, but are fully functional and safe. I want to rock my own world, and redefine whatever limits rationality may have programmed into our heads. I must push myself to be among you guys who do the same. I'm no Mad Fabricator..I'm no Cole Foster, and I'd have to invest the same amount of time into those skills as I have into learning what I now know. I simply don't have enough years on this planet to do so. I'll keep doing my very best, and hopefully these cars will leave a mark somewhere.

Scotch!~

P.S.- Someone mentioned I was probably broke. I'm actually beyond broke getting these crazy-assed engines and cars together, as the power of plastic has me upside down. I'm afloat, but paying them off. Broke would be zero debt, and I'm looking forward to getting there once again someday. I have no kids (yet) and I don't own a home, and that's the only reason I've been able to get this far...

[HOTRODPRIMER]

[ QUOTE ]
Wow!

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, WOWHRP

[Scotch]

1 more lap...

[bootie]

totally sick engine can't wait to see that puppy bark

[flt-blk]

What are the chances you have some build pictures you could
share with us??
TZ

[Scotch]

The chances are really good. I have to run a mag story first, but what I don't have space for I'll certainly share here.

Scotch~!

[Broman]

Are you still trying to stick to the S.Stanford rendering or have you got other ideas?

I swear we were separated at birth or something....

[Zor]

holy shit, that gonna be a wild ride.

[Scotch]

The Stanford rendering is going to be close, but I'm not sure on colors anymore. I probably won't decide on specifics until just before its sprayed, and I think I'd like to make the aero add-ons a bit more "industrial" looking, and more adjustable. I want to fab up a splitter (front spoiler) that is retractable for street driving (not flush, but halfway) and maybe something more NASCAR inspired and adjustable for the rear. I don't know man...There's SO much to consider. Right now, I just want to hear the engine fire and to see the car in one piece. The detail stuff seems so far down the road, and I change my mind more than a presidential candidate...I want it to look menacing, mean, evil...I want to slide '67 GTO grilles (chromed chain link fence) behind the '65 grille openings. I want to absolutely nail wheel/tire/stance to just plain look pissed off. Of course, it's all going to have to be functional too...so that will take precedent over form. This is one of those cars I want to have a long talk with, and let it tell me what it wants. I really wanted it to be Orbit Orange...I really dig that color...but ya never know what I might end up doing. I thought a beige interior would be cool, and civilize the office, but if I go with a more "industrial" look (exposed rivets, safety wire, etc.) I'd go with more a pewter...which would look like shit with Orbit Orange.

I need some beers first...then it'll all be crystal clear.


Scotch!~

[flamedabone]

Fuckin' A, my fellow Pontiac brother.

The only thing I could add is how about a quick change? It would save you 30-45 minutes changing the chunk in the hotel parking lot.

I'm puttin one under the Model A. It's a big assed Frankland circle track unit w/ a locking diff, Moser 31 spline Ford style axles and passenger car brakes and bolt pattern. I will have right at a grand in it including everything.

Beats the hell out of setting up and carring around two or three diffrent 9inch Ford chunks and laying under the car for 45 minutes...

Keep us posted. -Abone.

[Rocky]

Nice description of your 65 Goat but I think the engine would go much better in my car. Here's a rundown of mine
Stock 41 Pontiac bidness coupe.............
That's about it for now but your engine in my car would be cause to use all your cool suspension and running gear stuff.

[Rocky]

Hell, my hood may even be tall enough to hide all that trick intake business. I know it'll be tall enough to hide the old Offy dual quad on my miniscule 389 when it goes in later this year.