Lincoln Brakes to an AV8 is there a tech person for How To?

[MattStrube]

I'm going to get some Lincoln Brakes from a fellow Hamber and was wondering if anyone knows How To do the swap? I searched the Hamb and found an article all about brakes, but it only briefly mentions Lincoln to Ford and How most used the rear backing plates on the front. I also heard that using the original Lincoln Spindles and changing the kingpin dimensions can be done. I thought Henry wanted uniformity in all his parts? Shouldn't they just be a direct bolt on to a Ford Spindle and rear.

Right Now I have a Model A Axel and 1940 Ford Rear End. Thanks for the help. Matt Strube

[choprods]

Bruce Lancaster would be the one to check with.......

[Homeresque]

The lowdown is-
'39-40 are the really deepset backing plates without the outer dustring and the small '32-36 ford spindle bolt-pattern. You hafta use lincoln drums with these and then you get to try and figure how to mount them either to ford spindles or how to mount lincoln spindles to your axle. I have the secret to mounting to ford spindles, and f__k lincoln spindles.
'41 fronts are semi-deep (not sure if rears are too, they might be shallow) and are the ones you see 99% of the time. They are '37-later ford spindle pattern and have the outer dustring spotwelded on, and now that you can get adapter rings from Dave Wilton (Bob Wilson too I think) its an easy conversion.
'42-48 fronts and rears are shallow, the fronts being the solid-gold ones. '42-48(and maybe '41) rears can be made into fronts by welding up the e-brake holes.
Once you configure '41-48s, shallow or semideep with the adapter rings, using '37-later ford spindles you have to grind off just a TINY bit of material from the top of the kingpin boss. Square postwar spindles you dont, its a bolt-on.
To use '39-40 plates and drums, you use '32-36 spindles. My new roadster has a '32 heavy-axle with '35-6 spindles(so I can use cross-steering) and '37-later kingpins. The boss on the end of the axle is machined just enough to allow a torrington bearing between two hardened washers to fit between the axle and the lower seat of the spindle, and the later kingpin is inserted and the excess shaft on the underside cut off. This allows the elimination of the conventional bearing so I can use the early spindles, a cleaner look and the axle stub on these spindles sets the car a 1/2" lower. Also, the deepset backing plates fit on without any interference. I found a usable pair of '39 lincoln drums, which have really deep radial cooling fims on the outside and a longer bearing snout because of the deep offset. It looks really bitchin.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Thanks for that info! I'm doing that conversion as well and I have the "lond snout/deep set" Lincolns and I really dig the way they look too!
You still want those Merc caps back Homer? I have 6 of them now- same price I gave and you can have 'em back. I'd like some (3) cherry '40 Ford Deluxes.

[Homeresque]

I was thinking of calling you about those, Jim. Then Brad told me he still had the gennie '40 stnds from that black coupe...after I get those, and my car gets back in my garage, you might hafta come over for some beer and horsetrading.

[modernbeat]

FWIW, that write up on the Lincoln conversion is exactly-exactly right. And like was said, the deep offset brakes are a hell of a lot easier to find than the standard Ford offset brakes. I've been able to pick up a few sets of deep Lincolns but still haven't found a real set of non-offset Lincoln fronts. To do research I settled for a pair of rears with Ford front drums.

[MattStrube]

[ QUOTE ]
'42-48 fronts and rears are shallow, the fronts being the solid-gold ones. '42-48(and maybe '41) rears can be made into fronts by welding up the e-brake holes.
Once you configure '41-48s, shallow or semideep with the adapter rings, using '37-later ford spindles you have to grind off just a TINY bit of material from the top of the kingpin boss. Square postwar spindles you dont, its a bolt-on.


[/ QUOTE ]

This brings up another question with steering geometry that I talked to a guy about. Apparently when setting up steering on an early Ford ie. my Model A the steering Arms you buy from speedway say and bolt on to the early or late style spindles don't set the DragLink in the right position. He mentioned that the 32 spindle with the integral steering arm is the hot set up and only needs to be "massaged" downward to accomodate a dropped axel. Anyone have anything on this set-up.
Matt

[MattStrube]

Sorry I forgot to thank you for the information. Thanks Matt http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Flat Ernie]

Alternatively, you could get a set of Wilson Welding backing plates...

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Farmer]

urkillinmesmalls......i have seen the setup with the '32 integral steering spindle that was heated up and bent down a bit. it was used with a 4" dropped axle and looked good. That is kind of how I want to try and do my front end. Now,
are you wanting to setup cross-steer such as in a 40 ford?
I am using a 40 box when the time comes and cross steer. I will have late spindles, but the steering arm will be a speedway item. Seems to me that it would be much like what the '32 spindle does, after you "massaged" the speedway dropped steering arm. But, I have yet to do this so I'm just thinking outloud.....I would like to know myself. It never hurts to learn this stuff....come on out Greybeards and educate us http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[MattStrube]

I didn't want to utilize a cross steer, I'm using an F-1 box. Is this the only way? I must have misunderstood the guy saying it would work with my setup. Apparently the whole idea is getting the steering arm in front of the axel by a little bit (accomplished by the 32 spindles) instead of having the steering arm directly over the axel. I guess I don't get where he was coming from saying that the steering would be all f-ed up?

My main concern now is that the brakes will work without too much. Matt

[TimW]

Here is a picture of my front brakes. I have Lincoln front backing plates, think they 41's, they have the deep offset. They are on 37-41 spindles and required a spacer that was approximately 9/16 inch thick, and I had to grind the top edge of the spindle on an angle to clear the backing plate. I have a pair or 48 lincoln rears for my truck and they are shallow and will not need the spacer. Looking at the picture you hardly notice the spacer, and they stop fantastic! http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v291/thirtytwotim/Dsc00847.jpg

[Rand Man]

Please keep all the steering and brake info coming. I need all the help I can get.

[TimW]

Not trying to hi-jack this post or anything, but since we are on the topic of brakes and backing plates... a friend of mine is running 53-56 F-250 backing plates with 40 drums. The F-250's are a 12 inch self energizing brake like the lincolns. He claimed that they bolted right up to a set of 40 spindles with no adapters. I have a pair of these and quickly tryed to put them on a pair of 40 spindles and it looks to me loke the center hole in the backing plate may need to be opened up a touch, could just be the rust and crud but nothing a quick trip around with a rat-tail file wouldn't fix. These are shallow a offset and wouldn't require an adapter either. These are buried in the top of my garage, as soon as I get a chance I'll try to post some pics of them and spend a little more time fitting them to the spindles. Hope this is useful to some of you. Tim

[NealinCA]

How about 48-52 F-2? Can those be used with 40 drums?

Neal

[modernbeat]

Yes, the F2 are 12 inch and bolt right up to '40 Spindles and can use '40 Drums - but, they work just like '40 brakes! If fact, if you had a box of F2 backing plates and a box of '47 backing plates you most likely couldn't tell them apart.

Now the later '53-'54 F200 3/4 ton truck brakes are like the flat Lincoln brakes. You can use '40 drums and the backing plates look like they'll bolt right up. I got a full set this spring but haven't played with them yet. The wheel cylinder is sorta funky - it only works on one side, but it can be replaced with the same wheel cylinder that Bob Wilson is using on his repro Lincolns to good effect.

BTW, everyone know that Bob does make a damn good reproduction of the flat Lincoln backing plate that's a bolt up and go deal for cheaper than original core prices?

[Flat Ernie]

There are several posts on the '53-56 F250 backing plates w/Buick drums. I've got some I'm fiddling with - on the back burner for now.

Post 1 (http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB1&Number=116568&Forum=A ll_Forums&Words=f250&Match=Entire%20Phrase&Searchp age=3&Limit=25&Old=allposts&Main=116326&Search=tru e#Post116568)
Post 2 (http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB1&Number=139897&Forum=A ll_Forums&Words=f250&Match=Entire%20Phrase&Searchp age=3&Limit=25&Old=allposts&Main=139897&Search=tru e#Post139897)
Post 3 (http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB1&Number=182719&Forum=A ll_Forums&Words=f250&Match=Entire%20Phrase&Searchp age=2&Limit=25&Old=allposts&Main=182364&Search=tru e#Post182719)
Post 4 (http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB1&Number=254143&Forum=A ll_Forums&Words=f250&Match=Entire%20Phrase&Searchp age=1&Limit=25&Old=allposts&Main=254119&Search=tru e#Post254143)

Hopefully, that'll give you some idea what you're in for. They're not that easy to find, but I will say the rear plates are identical to the fronts, but have a dual-piston wheel cylinder. Parking brake on the big trucks was on the end of the tranny. F350 rear brakes are the same from the same years - fronts are different though.

It's damn near a bolt-on proposition - very minor machining.

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[MattStrube]

Flat Ernie Wrote:
[ QUOTE ]
Alternatively, you could get a set of Wilson Welding backing plates...

[/ QUOTE ]


At $450 a set, I'll work my heart out trying to spend half that, but they do look slick and would take care of a lot of head aches. Thanks for all the info, I think we may have a brake tech/conversion question and answer post in the making similar to the flathead one. Keep this info coming. Matt

[MattStrube]

TimW what spindle are you using in that picture?

[Flat Ernie]

[ QUOTE ]
At $450 a set, I'll work my heart out trying to spend half that

[/ QUOTE ]

I hear ya! But original Lincoln plates are bringing that & more - and you still normally have to freshen them up!

I'm sticking to the F250 stuff myself - not quite as 'pretty' as the Lincolns (or Wilson's finned stuff - Limey, you got a pic of yours?), but work just as well, if not better (easily made self-adjusting w/a few extra parts).

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[modernbeat]

Regarding Bob Wilson's brakes: remember that at that price you get fabulous backing plates, new brake shoes, new wheel cylinders, and all the dinky hardware.

All you have to do is paint, plumb, and run.

[TimW]

The spindles in my pic are the 37-41 fords (round ones). I had to grind the top of the spindle from the edge of the king pin hole down toward the spacer. As far as Bob Wilsons stuff goes, yeah it sounds high but they are complete! By the time I bought my backing plates, hunted hemmings for shoes, and wore out a parts man looking for springs and wheel cylinders, I had at least that much in time, aggrevation and cash! I know several guys running the wilsons and they all work great! But I'm a tight ass thats why I have a couple of extra lincolns and f-250's put away, now that I know the f-100 wheel cylinders and springs work...Tim

[MattStrube]

Yea, I just don't have that kind of cash lying around, but it's easy to get 30 or $40 to buy some little stuff. In 1949, you probably could have bought a whole AV8 for $450. I just can't justify it.