Fragged spider gears and YOUNG, NUBILE FEMALE FLESH...

[burndup]

yes, the way to spam yourself to the top of the "Newer, freindlier, more depraved HAMB."

I'll see if I can dig up some ex gf ass shots, but in the meantime, we have this:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v299/burndupcrx/fraggage.jpg

whats missing from that picture? This:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v299/burndupcrx/teeth.jpg


I count 12 bolt holes... but that doesnt mean its really a "12 bolt???"

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v299/burndupcrx/12bolts.jpg

Every where I live, theres oil spots...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v299/burndupcrx/truck_sep.jpg

yeah, I got a new camera, its fun...


SO...

How do I get those C-clips off? They are a PITA. Whats envolved in rebuilding this fucker? As you can see, my ring gear is fine, assuming the pinion is too... but the thing is throwing oil out the pinion seal...

The pinion angle is shitty, (cause the rear is too low) I thought that was the whole cause of this mess, but I see it really isnt... I'll get new springs so the rear will raise up a few inches...

So, who wants to help me rebuild it??? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

There was no tag on the bolts, someone long ago put a chrome cover on it, but 99% of said chrome is gone now. Anywhere else where I could look for identifying numbers?

Suggestions on places on the web I can do reasearch, learn more about this thing?

Thanks,
J

[burndup]

And yes, I (carefully) drove about 7 blocks, and paralell parked it all nice with it all fragged like that, cool shit.

[desertratrodder]

To get the C clips out, first you need to take out the little hex head bolt that holds the center shaft in (the one thru the spiders), and pop it out. Then push the axle in and the c clip drops off. Then undo the end caps and all the gears come out.
I think I can get you the later 5 lug front and rear. I'll check tomorrow.

[Slag Kustom]

now this is a blown rear

[plan9]

yo, jason... ive got a shop manual for that generation of chevy p/u's.

not sure if its got details on rebuilding the rear end, but ill check.

if its got 12 bolts on the cover, its a 12 bolt rear. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

excellant opportunity to convert to 5 lug

[SinisterCustom]

Say, is that the original rear end? If your pinion seal is leaking bad your pinion bearings are probably shot. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif When you take it apart carefully inspect ring and pinion. If it looks questionable, find a cheap ford 9" the right width and use it. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif If yours looks OK, get a posi unit(eaton), put fresh bearings in, and have fun spinning BOTH tires! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

BTW cooooool truck!

[burndup]

DRR, if you have a bolt in truck rear axle, you the man... I'll totally take all the 5 lug conersion stuffs...

And yeah, Mr Plan, I'd like to borrow that manual if I may.

If I would drive dropped the thing when I got home, it too would look like that other diff, if not worse...

[SinisterCustom]

12 bolt cover don't mean shit! Count bolts on ring gear.

[burndup]

Nuh uh, bolt-in swap-o-matic time... dont have time patience or $ for much more at the moment... I have to actually GET my new welder and learn how to use it... not teaching myself on anything highway-going...

Either that, or rebuilding this one....

Sorry Mr Noname, prolly pass on that Camaro diff you offered me...

[plan9]

[ QUOTE ]
12 bolt cover don't mean shit! Count bolts on ring gear.

[/ QUOTE ]

huh?

thats the easiest way to identify what youve got?

so, youre saying a chevy rear cover with 10 bolts can be a 12 bolt? youre trippin dude...

ive used this method a few times... never had problems with the wrong parts.

[Steve]

exactly who doesn't determine a chevy rear end by 12 or 10 bolts. what the heck are you talking about

[Hot Rod To Hell]

Actually guys, while I've never personally seen it, I have heard of what he's talking about. A 12 bolt cover with 10 bolt gears... The number of bolts on the RING GEAR is what the term 10 bolt or 12 bolt is actually referring to. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[SinisterCustom]

Exactly.

[plan9]

[ QUOTE ]
Actually guys, while I've never personally seen it, I have heard of what he's talking about. A 12 bolt cover with 10 bolt gears... The number of bolts on the RING GEAR is what the term 10 bolt or 12 bolt is actually referring to. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

ok... so what chevys had this? sure as hell not on A-bodies.

rearends have different ring gear diameters, regardless of the bolts on the rear cover... if thats what you mean??

[Hot Rod To Hell]

I don't actually know of the applications, but I remember reading that in a shop manual or magazine WAY back. Like I said I've never encountered it, but it supposedly exists!

[hotrodsnguns]

You can put the 10 bolt carrier in a 12 bolt rear, chevy never did it but you can. It is a put it in swap, normally way cheaper if you are not keeping it. You can put 12 bolt carrier in a 10 bolt housing with a little machine work. If a crazy nut has not got a hold of a 12 bolt if it has 12 bolts on the housing it is a 12 bolt, but the acid test is the number of bolts on the ring gear.

[hotrodsnguns]

Being an old vette guy we used to put 12 bolt carriers in irs vet rears all the time. A bad pinion seal is just that if you did not run it low on gear oil bearing are probably fine.

[desertratrodder]

I'll check on the 5 bolt stuff tomorrow...you help pull, you pay the dude for it. I dont know the $$ yet, but it should be fair.
I dont think any nudie pics would help him, it would probably kill him. So I'll take those to save his life.
DRR.

[SimonSez]

You may already know this, but there are 2 Chev 12 bolt rears, one for passengers and one for trucks.

Chances are you have the truck 12-bolt, but this web site has pictures of the different rear covers so you can tell for sure, http://www.differentials.com/pdfs/46.pdf

If you just want to get on the road as soon as possible, you can replace the side gears and spider gears without having to pull the ring and pinion.

Remove the c-clips as described in a previous reply, then you can remove the remains of the side and spider gears. Get some replacement gears, clean all the fragments out and put it back together.

[FoMoCo_MoFo]

is that your dog in the picture? is it a girl?

my dog is very horny and needs to hump.

[KlunkyMcShift]

First time I've seen a early hood on a later model truck.

[plan9]

[ QUOTE ]
is that your dog in the picture? is it a girl?

my dog is very horny and needs to hump.



[/ QUOTE ]

thats some annoying little rat that lives next door... barks way too much

[burndup]

Aint my dog!


I was thinking of just throwing in new spider gears...

But:

my tires are bald
My single MC brakes scare me
My front end needs to be rebuilt

So the 5 lug conversion is getting close,

AND I could buy a set of supremes!

OR I could just buy a set of spider gears...

Why do we think they broke? Just 40 years of wear? I'm not super rough on the ol girl...

[ QUOTE ]
First time I've seen a early hood on a later model truck.

[/ QUOTE ]

Its neat huh? Once again, cannot take credit for it...

[burndup]

not river rat, neurotic guard dog... if he goes apeshit in the middle of the night, I know to go out there with a machete...

[burndup]

"From 1964-82, Chevy used a variant of the Chevy 12-bolt in ½-ton trucks. Although it’s similar in outward appearance and shares the beefy 8.875 ring gear, it has a smaller 1.438-inch pinion diameter (versus 1.625) and takes specific bearings and gears."

[burndup]

Oh, and who the F will sell me the replacement spider gears? I need? Surely not napa... ???

[tomslik]

if you use a 71-72 chevy 1/2t TRUCK rear, it'll be a bolt-in.
everything else WILL require a goofy set if perches and a track rod mount.
the 2nd pick tells me it's a coil sring rear suspension,correct?

[burndup]

yeah, its coil spring, but i think I just wanna slap in new spider gears, maybe a new pinion seal, and run along with the stock rear a little longer... have the 5-lug swap happen as a planned-for thing, you know?

[Ayers Garage]

That's a normal old truck 12 bolt rear end. If you look close at the picture, you can see the panhard bar mount on the very right side of the picture.

Any 12 bolt truck rear should have the spider gears you need for a quick fix.

If you convert to a 5 lug, a 71 or 72 rear end is the easiest way to go. Like 90% plus of them were coil spring trucks. Very few leaf trucks built these years. The only work will be shortening your panhard bar because the 71-72 panhard bar mounts to the top of the center section instead of the right axle tube like your truck does. I'd get the later panhard bar out of he truck you pull the rear out of.

These coil spring trucks have funny axle mount pads, unlike normal leaf spring type of trucks. That's why the 71-72 deal is so attractive. They give 5 lug, but still used the exact same axle mounting setup. Typically, a factory 6 cylinder truck has 3.73 gears and a V8 truck has 3.08 gears. Something to keep in mind when looking at donor trucks.

Don't raise your truck up just because the pinion angle is off. Go to a local spring shop (look in yellow pages under spring shop) and get some wedge shims to correct the angle some. Or, sometimes I use fender washers on the u-bolts to correct pinion angles. Put them between the axle pad and the trailing arm on the rear leg of each u-bolt.

If needed, PM me and I can maybe answer other questions for you. I'm a Chevy truck freak from way back.

[burndup]

The rear springs are torched... I have about an inch of spring travel on one side... Lots of tesion on the panhard bar, pushing the rear end over to one side, panhard bar looks arched!

This is some hokey shit, it just needs to come up a couple of inches...


So... why did this shit frag, and where can i buy NEW gears?

Or, if someone has good used pieces they wanna hook me up with??

Maybe I'll hit a couple junkyards...

Thanks,
J

[Slag Kustom]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Actually guys, while I've never personally seen it, I have heard of what he's talking about. A 12 bolt cover with 10 bolt gears... The number of bolts on the RING GEAR is what the term 10 bolt or 12 bolt is actually referring to. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

ok... so what chevys had this? sure as hell not on A-bodies.

rearends have different ring gear diameters, regardless of the bolts on the rear cover... if thats what you mean??

[/ QUOTE ]

some olds had a 12 bolt cover with 10 bolt gutts i think they came in pontiacs manly in wagons and the other larger cars.

[Bugman]

Your local parts professionalsmay actually have the spider gears listed in their computers. Call around, see what they've got.

[Uncle Pancakes]

Burndup: Man you gotta drill those broken gear teeth and make a necklace out of them (like shark teeth)! Hope you get it fixed asap!!!

[dixiedog]

[ QUOTE ]
panhard bar looks arched!

This is some hokey shit, it just needs to come up a couple of inches...


So... why did this shit frag, and where can i buy NEW gears?

Or, if someone has good used pieces they wanna hook me up with??

Maybe I'll hit a couple junkyards...

Thanks,
J

[/ QUOTE ]

The panhard on my 61 is arched so thats okay.

There are different models of the 12 bolt rear that you have, it took me a couple of tries to get the right bearings and seals since the axle shaft and housing are different sizes.

The ident is cast into the diff housing - not sure about the codes but check the web esp. chevytalk.org

the 5 lug 71's came on the disc brake models and they are rare to find and pricy around here. You can use a 70-78 12 bolt (1" wider) you just have to swap out the spring mount pads with the cantered ones for a trailing arm suspension and you can get these for about $12 each from I think LMC.

The other 5 lug option is get your axles plugged and redrilled by a machine shop - mine ran me about $100 including the drums.

The other option is do a body swap onto a 73-80 SWB roller and get all the brakes cheap lowering etc.

Hope this helps - good luck

[Bruce Lancaster]

"Burndup: Man you gotta drill those broken gear teeth and make a necklace out of them (like shark teeth)! Hope you get it fixed asap!!! "
Ratboy, I was just about to write the same thing--that'll make a great costume for his appearance on that new TV show..."Hot Rod Survivor III...HAMB Burnout"

[Rand Man]

Your local parts store should have the spider gears. You can be cruising in thirty minutes. I did the five-lug swap when I converted a '67 Chevy Pickup into a '72; it's easy. One cheap way to find a '71-'72 rear end is to buy an old bed trailer. People used to convert wrecked trucks into trailers by cutting the frame under the cab and welding them back together to form the tongue. Nowadays you can find them super cheap. Just pull the axles, brakes, wheels and all. Put your old parts back on the trailer, and then sell it.

[burndup]

Cool, good stuff...

only question in my mind, is why did they break?

Crystallization over time?

Theres no way the "Cuban rebuild" I did on my engine last year was bitchin enough to cause such damage...

[Rand Man]

Nuthing last forever. Forty-some years has put some wear on me too.

[1LOWCHIEF]

beautiful truck.

Sorry, I have no other input besides that.

[hankcash]

burnd....

Can I help with the young and nubile porton of this thread?
HC

[burndup]

YESSSSSS!


But I cant fuckin get the goddamned spider gear pin out, WTF???

The pin is tapered, each way, and then it binds up inside each spider gear. Had one bolt to retain it, took that out, but I cant drift the fucker out.

How the hell?

[Rocky]

Burndup....the gears that broke are differtial side gears and they allow the inside rear wheel to go slow and the outside wheel to go fast around sharp coners. What usually happens [at least, in my case] is somebody has prolly spun only one rear wheel really hard. Maybe they got one wheel in the snow or mud or maybe even got one off the ground and juiced the engine to get unstuck. When the spinning wheel grabs traction, all the force goes through the side gears. As you can see, the teeth on them arent' very big and they will fatigue over time with this kinda use. One day you're going around a corner and----POP!
Last time I did that kinda damage it was to a 9and 3/8ths lincoln 3rd member. I'd had a little too much "stupid juice" at the bar and decided to impress my buddys with a John Force power-brake. The pavement was a little wet and I got the right rear wheel of my 66 Lincoln coupe going at about 157 MPH when I let off the brake and the right rear grabbed dry asphalt...POP! Looked just like yours when I took it apart...DOH!

[desertratrodder]

Does the pin have a cut out portion in the center, so if you turned it to face the axle shaft, you could push the axle into it enough to drop off the c clip, then turn it to the other and do the same??
If the pin doesnt slide out it should have the recessed area...

[Rocky]

You prolly bent the damn pin or maybe just scored the part of the pin that rides in the case...use plenty of penetrating oil and keep tapping. In an extreme case, you may have to use a torch and cut the center of the pin out....knock the two remaining pieces in toward the middle to get them out.......

[burndup]

No... its fattest in the center... the pic I have at the top of this doesnt really show the tapers... they are near/in/around the side gears.

[burndup]

The pin does look a lil chewey on the ends...

But no, even cutting the center of it wont get it out... FATTEST in the center, tapers SMALLER towards the outsides/gears....

[desertratrodder]

I think Rocky was saying cut out the middle and knock the ends back into the center. They will fall in if theyre tapered like you say.
I am assuming when you are driving out that shaft its not hitting something behind it... usually they slide out the front..

[Blownolds]

Well, now... the truck 12-bolts are not known to be as strong as the Chevy Passenger 12-bolts, but that's not the part that busted in your rear. The truck 12 will still be OK for cruising. I built a truck 12 for my '63 P'up and did it up right and never had any problems with it. I had Unitrax in Anaheim build it. I put in 3.73 gears and a brand new Eaton posi... by the time I purchased the rearend core to build, replaced one axle, purchased the new posi and the 3.73 gears, and had Unitrax completely build it, it cost me $1200 start to finish. I just sold my '63 for $1275, too... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Anyway, to give you some input. That rear was used from '63 to '82. BUT the '63-4 rears have 17 spline axles/side gears, and in '65 they went to 30 spline.

[burndup]

no, no, cutting seems wrong... I'M doing something wrong here, this shouldnt be so FOOKED up, I need one of ya to tell me what I'm doing wrong...


Yes, I KNOW I have not consumed enough alcohol today, BESIDES that...

[manyolcars]

[ QUOTE ]
"Burndup: Man you gotta drill those broken gear teeth and make a necklace out of them (like shark teeth)! Hope you get it fixed asap!!! "
Ratboy, I was just about to write the same thing--that'll make a great costume for his appearance on that new TV show..."Hot Rod Survivor III...HAMB Burnout"

[/ QUOTE ] You boys know those teeth are extremely hard and he aint gunna be able to drill holes in'em. Maybe if he anneals them first.........

[burndup]

The teeth will become the teeth in a tiki-man sculpture.... nice and savage and crappy looking!

[Rand Man]

I'm not sure what you mean by tapered at both ends. It should come right out if you have the retaining bolt out. Please send some photos.

[Gracie]

What a cute little pudgy dog in that pic!

[dixiedog]

Jason - sounds like you need to take that rear center chunk out and try to press them or drive them out. How about a spool for the rear and be real hillbilly!



65 and later 30 spline axles??? Is this true?? That would make a lot of sense why I had 30 spline axles in my 61 and I had a hell of a time getting the right parts. VIVA LA HAMB!!!

PS - HC is the MAN great pic!!!

[AHotRod]

Girls.......

[Bruce Lancaster]

"You boys know those teeth are extremely hard and he aint gunna be able to drill holes in'em. Maybe if he anneals them first......... "

That's why I kept the stove after the microwave came...and there's nothing like the smell of 140 gear oil flaring off at 600 degrees on the front burner...MMMMMMMgood...

[hollywud]

Clean it all out good(Oil) weld the spider gears to hell and....Tada...Instant possi!! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[38Chevy454]

[ QUOTE ]
Clean it all out good(Oil) weld the spider gears to hell and....Tada...Instant possi!! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I was just about to smartass reply the same thing, just make a redneck posi by welding the spider gears.....or the old school term "lincoln locker".

Seriously, the best solution is to just find a 71-72 5-lug rear, but for the short term, you can probably just go to Pick-n-pull and find the same 6-lug rear you have and remove the side gears you need. Or grab the whole rearend and then you don't have to screw with your leaking pinion, assuming the new rearend is reasonable good shape.

[Cadillacin Marcus]

Oh Fuck!! You have a truck like mine? Well That Fuckin Sucks!!!!!!!!

[burndup]

Jizzguzzler, I'd really appreciate you never posting on any of my threads again...


Yeah, the ghetto/redneck posi idea crossed my mind too!!

But, the tires are so worn down, I think not.... besides, I dont want to fuck up this diff just yet.

I was outta town, I gave notice on my crappy job today... maybe tomorrow I'll have some time to torch the pin.

[Cadillacin Marcus]

Ah forgettabout it

[Andy]

I want to know if that chick is related to Rudolph because her nose kinda glows!! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Thirdyfivepickup]

To gp further into the 12 bolt with 10 bolt internals...

According to my Richmond catalog... 1968-1970 Olds Cutlass and 442 models would have this rear. Its got the 8.5" ring gear and 27 spline axles. Regular GM (err Chevy) 8.5" ring gears will not go into this carrier. Its a specific beast...

Hopefully this will help someone in the future!

BE CAREFUL WITH SWAPMEET 12 BOLTS!!!

[hollywud]

Not trying to be a smartass,just something I would do!

[burndup]

Nuh uh... 17 spline axles. Got The Fokker out today finally. ALSO found out twhatthe hell was wrong with my pinion, its leaky seal, and the gear growling.

Tha Fuckin nut was loose. Can you beleive it?

Ima start a new thread with pictures, I have a few questions about this shit, but too tired and lazy to post pics tonight... maybe later.

need pizza and beer now...

[Blownolds]

Sounds like 1200 bucks...

You might be able to do it for less, if you don't put a posi in it, and don't have to buy any axles or a rearend core. Just tellin' you what it cost me. I WILL say this-- I never once regretted it, at least not until I had to sell the truck off.

[burndup]

WHATTAFUCK???

2 spider gears
1 spider gear pin
2 side gears, with C clips

1 pinion seal
2 axle seals, for the heck of it
a set of brake shoes
and a pair of rear brake wheel cylinders to be safe...

NO WAY could that be 1200 bux...

even with the new set of rear springs I'm gonna toss it at an extra $120...

no way in fuck.

[Rocky]

So, how did you finally get da sumbitch apart? Grenade? H-bomb?

[dixiedog]

[ QUOTE ]
even with the new set of rear springs I'm gonna toss it at an extra $120...



[/ QUOTE ]

My shit ran me
$60 for the outer axle bearings
$25 for both of the axle seals
$15 for the pinion seal that is leaking again
$65 for the yoke that was bad
$100 for machine work to do 5 lug and redrill the drums
$50 machine work to shorten one axle 7/16" - yeah it had the wrong axle in one side
$60 brake kit


Iffin I had to do it again - I would take a rear out of a 73-80 and weld on the angled mount plates and call it a day - fuckin bastardized years!!!

[Blownolds]

Hee hee... I meant, if you are going to rebuild the rear from scratch into a good posi rear with all new bearings and parts. Not making a run to the junkyard for more junk. Sorry, didn't mean to get a rise out of ya!

[burndup]

sheesh... had a freakin heart attack... Rocky, I torched the sheeyot outta the pin. MMM, tasty, burning 90wt. Took for fuckin ever with my tiny ass torch, and runing propane instead of acetylene.... my acet. regulator has more problems than a....

No, I'm going to patch together this rear as best as possible, do the brakes in the back, axle seals cause I might as well, get some cheap pep boys radials and grind open the whitewalls on them... THEN keep an eye out for the 5 lug conversion donor parts... If I can put this thing back together so that it lasts me 15-20K miles, I'll be plenty happy. Try and do this all for under $400...

Damn, thats two and a half new motorcycles, right there!!! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[ShortBus]

Wouldn't it be easier to drop a roadflare into the gas tank?