Space management in your shop, help a brutha out....

[Roothawg]

Man, it's 12:15 am and I am laying awake staring at the ceiling. I am at a point on the shop where I hafta make a major decision.

I had planned all along to "compartmentalize" the shop into sections. For example, I wanted to have an office upstairs, over the paint booth and the fabrication shop.I wanted to keep the grinding dust etc off the other cars, so I figured if I could wall it off.....well you get the picture.

Here's the hang up .....money. I think if I spend a bunch of money on the shop that I could have used buying stuff I need like plasma cutter, TIG etc.

I also worry that if I section the shop all up, I lose valuable usable space. As cool as it would be to have all these neat little areas, I am tapped. I have run out of money. I guess I could always add these things later but I figure I never will.

I know a lot of guys don't have a shop but I have been working towards this for 15 years. I just don't want to make the wrong decision....ya know?

So in short......does a shop that has several small areas seem more efficient or less? Gimme your thoughts.....

[SamIyam]

The LAST thing I would ever put in a shop is a paint booth...

Don't allow anything to stick out past the walls more than two feet... and if you put a wall up inside... you increase wall space... but ya gotta walk around it to do work.

My advice it to stick to the 2 foot rule, buy some equipment, start working in it and THEN decide... oh, and screw the paint booth... unless you plan on using it ALL THE TIME... 'cause if you aren't using it, all your buddies will want to...

How big is this shop anyway? Are ya gonna have a hoist in it?

Maybe we could have a contest to design your shop... winner gets a blow job... just tell us what stuff you have, roll aways, welders, lifts benches... hoists... and the size of your shop, and we'll do the rest.

Sam.

[Roothawg]

Are you volunteering to give the prize out? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

It was actually more of a "bodywork room" moreso than a dedicated paint booth. I just hate bondo dust, primer dust etc. settling on all my cars. I have thought about a portable/temporary type of dust containment setup.

Man I have so much crap we couldn't organize it on paper in 3 months.

The shop is 40x50x14 with 3 rollup doors on the same wall.
The first is 10' wide the next is 16'wide then the last is 12' wide.

[Muttley]

I wish I had your problems. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[rustyford1]

If ya got too much crap bring it up here and I can store it for ya for a while. It doesn't matter how big your shop is - you just wind up draggin' more stuff home.

[hammeredabone]

Root, Go to the home center and pic up some clear visqueen 4mil, use some 1 by 4 pine stringers and a staple gun, you got yourself a temporary booth or body man in a can sanding ,area. When I was a renter and had no garage ,I rented a stall from a buddy and used the plastic to keep overspray and bondo dust off his choppers. Worked real good for temp fix. They use this stuff on construction work in an occupied area, hell, I have seeen them use zippers as a doorway. If ya want walls how about some metal studs and drywall, this is not too teribbly expensive and you could partion areas off that way.
Shit I wish I had your problem, I am working out of a two stall garage and all my shit is on wheels (except my lathe) and has to be moved to create any significant room!

[whodaky]

Set it up the way you want right from the start, otherwise as you said it will never get done. Remember you are the one working in it, you are the one that has to be happy with it. I designed everything in mine even before I started to build the garage. Mine is only 40x25x10 high. I did mine right from the get go and have no regrets. I ended up spending around 13k and that was doing everything myself and with the help of friends. I did this all around 10 years ago. Geoff aka Whodaky

[Roothawg]

One of the things I have gathered from watching all these "hot rod TV" shows is that all of the pro builders shops are wide open. That makes me wonder if that might be the way to go. I figure this little adventure will end up costing about 4 grand. If I do it the front of the shop will look like an old storefront from the 20's-30's.

What to do???

[Just Gary]

Do what we do in military requirements generation:
1. Prioritize your requirements- What do you use your shop for the most?
2. Arrange your shop to fulfill the highest priority requirements. Tools for tasks that you only do rarely, or consume more than their fair share of space get pushed into deep storage.
3. When you have the funds to do more (or the President increases Defense spending), address those priorities that were previously below the threshold, i.e. add more shop space, etc...

Hope this helps... though it doesn't really answer your question directly. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[Paul]

I'm right there with ya Rootman,

my shop is 30x60 with the back 20 walled off for the Mrs. to do her thing in.

I like the open space and feel confined with walls in the way but it sure makes a mess everywhere when sanding and painting.

I like the idea of temporary deviders,
how about simple blue tarps (or any color) on pipes that can be rolled up to the ceiling so they are only in the way when you need them, you could fasten the corners with velcro strips..

er sumthin..

Paul

[HOTRODPRIMER]

Root,Where are the pictures?

I have just finished building my new dream shop 30x40x10 and it has 3 roll up doors on the front and 1 roll up door on the back w/t a 20' concrete area out back to do heavy cleaning or sandblasting.

I plan on leaving it open,,,I'll have to live with the bondo dust and overspray ,,,HRP

[CURIOUS RASH]

<font color="green">ROOT,

Along the clear Visqu...Viscw...Vysque....Plastic idea.

I had a buddy who made a temp sanding area.

He took some 1X2 pine, and some HEAVY CLEAR plastic, wrapped the plastic around the pine strips a few times and attached the strips to the ceiling with sheet rock screws.

Then, he did the same on the bottom end, making them just touch the floor.

Next, he took some nylon rope, about 1/8" and attached it to one side of the plaxtic at the roof, brout it down under the strips on the bottom and back up the other side, thru some pulleys hanging on the ceiling and then to a cleat on the wall.

There were a few of these per panel and they were all linked together.

When he pulled on the ropes, the walls rolled themselves up and then he could tie them to the cleats, storing the rolled up walls at the ceiling.

I hope this makes sense, I know you usually require pictures...

It isn't going to be air tight but will sure cut down on the spread of the mess.

I was thinking that a guy could get some of that heavy stuff they use for windows on "Pop-up" campers and do the same with that stuff, then you could attach some velcro to it and actually seal the corners?

I will probably make myself a similar booth area in my shop.

RASHY </font>

[TooMany2count]

yeaaaa what rashy said... a few friends have done the plastic thing w/the velcro &amp; it works great, cheap &amp; portable too.......joe

[roadstar]

If you do plan on doing body and paint work AND assembly and detail work you defenatly need a clean room.

I would put one wall front to back utilizing one of the garage doors. A walk through door in side, possible a double door to get larg things through with out havin got go out and around all the time.

Build a loft over the smaller room for storage and or office.

And a hoist is mandatory,the four post or two. it will also give you room for more cars. with a 14 ft ceiling you might as well take advantage of that.

[J'st Wandering]

The fewer walls the better. Make temp walls as stated in the above posts. My shop is a cluttered mess but if I had walls in it, I would just have more crap laying around. Neal

[Yo Baby]

I agree,W.F.O. With temp walls. my shop has one wall down the middle and one big door.I constantly feel cramped.

[Chaz]

Tracks on the ceiling and tarps work well. Its like having a room curtained off. They work VERY well in controlling dust and such. You can push them aside or even take them down, fold em and store them.
The blue tarps sold at tool sales work great, and you can close off a large room for a hundred bucks or less.

[Mass Butcher]

Walls do tend to hamper things. Great for wall storage though. Our shop is approx 100x100x18, so we have a lot of open space, plus a spray booth. Bodywork is done in a certain area, not blocked off by anything. We would have to go floor to ceiling w/ a wall, plus use some ventillation system, so I am not a big fan of walls. I just put everything I can on wheels for convienence. (eventually we'll get a less shitty spray booth and use the shittier one for bodywork only http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif)

[Bruce Lancaster]

You mention an upstairs--use part of that, or the rafters and plywood if necessary, as storage for pieces removed from cars being worked on--a serious hotrod project car uses two car's worth of space as it comes apart, so get that space back by stacking everything loose upstairs until its turn to be worked on.

[banzaitoyota]

Another idea for portable shelter. Use one of the 159 enclosed garges from harbor freight. Or cover one of the portable canapy frames with poly.

[zman]

Rashy stole my idea. I have some big plastic curtains, ok they're tarps or clear plastic, but I use them to compartmentalize my shop, and sometimes the shop is wide open...

[Roothawg]

The office was gonna be a place where painted pieces or newly chromed pieces could be stored. I have been agonizing over this for days...bare with me.

I have always wanted an office/hangout spot for all the visitors that drop in. The disadvantage is the loss of floor space, so I opted to put it upstairs. There are also provisions fr a bathroom up there if I decide to go that way.

I do a lot of bodywork/painting. The idea of a clean room is out. This room would have to double as a paint booth. I can't afford to have both. I thought if I could sheet the room in white sheetmetal, over a vis-queen(SP?) vapor barrier, that would keep the dust to a minnimum. I would plumb a water spiggot into the wall so I could wash down the walls and floor. I designed the shop with one rollup door, and one 3-0 walk door in the booth area to double as ventilation.

Sorry if I sound indecisive....I'm not sure about anything.
By the way, I have to order the lumber today...that's what is bringing this all on. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[crossmember]

my shop is 40x25x14. I have a double door, a single door and a pedestrian door. The single door leads into a paint/bodywork area that I have blocked off with a track and a heavy plastic/vinyl curtain that I bought at sams or costco for 150.00. It works great for keeping out all the dust and paint, and when I am done painting it rolls out of the way and I can push the truck back into the normal part of the shop. That is the nice part about a temp wall. The other walls are full of storage/tools/workbenches.
The biggest problem is definitely trying to keep my buddies out of the shop. Got one in the paintbooth going on a month now, bout time to get the trailer and tow it out for him.

[dixiedog]

Check with some of the surplus houses for the curtain wall that Chaz was talking about, maybe able to find some cheap. I also thought about using corrugated clear fiberglass roof panels from floor to ceiling since they are cheap and allow light to pass thru.

Sam's 2 foot rule is a must!

After Frances with no power/lights and having to walk thru mine in the dark a big clean out is in the plans!!

I also like the loft idea, I have 2 in the back corners with house crap being stored and they need a good cleaning to make room for stuff off the floors.

I have a shelf that extends 2 foot out (see Sam) and is 7 ft off the floor to hold bins with parts. I used truss straps 36" long @ 4 ft on center down from the truss, double nailed the back of the shelf with 16d nails at each stud and have the lateral supports at 16" O.C. with 7/16" plywood for the shelf and hooks on the bottom to hold long tubes for tubing and long stuff.

[Spitfire1776]

Honestly I would look into the wonder of blue Nylon tarps, and stringing wire. String the wire across teh parts you want cordoned off but accordingly sized blue and feed the wire through the eyelets. withdrawable walls. Might not be the most professional looking set-up but it does work on the cheap.

[zman]

Another hint is to but weight in the bottom of the tarp to keep it from blowing around.

[fordnutz]

2 must haves are a dirty room/paint booth to work in for welding, grinding, bodywork, priming and painting, and a large assembly area to put the car together. I don't have a booth any more and really miss it. Hard to keep the rest of the garage clean without a real booth. Nutz.

[48_HEMI]

this is an awesome and timely post, I am so fed up with my shitbox shop. as soon as I get out of the glass business I'm going to build my dream shop with a bazillion sq.ft white marble floor. in the meantime I have 1500 un usable sq.ft. please keep the ideas flowing and help a bunch of brutha's out
I was going to post some photos but don't want to hijack this thread so I'll monitor this and post elsewhere. thanks for the help Root http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Broman]

[ QUOTE ]
One of the things I have gathered from watching all these "hot rod TV" shows is that all of the pro builders shops are wide open. That makes me wonder if that might be the way to go.

[/ QUOTE ]


Yea, well have you noticed that these "Hot-Rod"/ Chopper shops don't do their own bodywork. They give the messy stuff to someone else in a detached building or across town....someone like you.... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Their shops look clean because they aren't doing it all in one place. You can't compare yourself to them until you become one of them.....rich that is.

My dad's garaged looked like a fuggin' museum when he was doing his bodywork in a shop. Now that the shop isn't available and he has to do it in his garage - well let's just say that you don't leave a drawer or toolbox open anymore or it'll be full of a nice dustly layer of bodyfiller/primer.

We've tried to be as sanitary as possible, but it's just not going to happen. Bodywork is a messy job. That shit hangs in the air and blows around the garage and gets into places you'd never believe. Not that I am telling you anything you don't already know.....

If we had the space we'd put a wall right in the middle of the building. One side for tear-down &amp; bodywork and one side for a car that is all apart, being cut-in and painted. You want to think that the finishing side could be smaller than the bodywork side until you have all of these parts hanging around waiting for paint before they go back on the car. Unfortunately we're stuck in a regular two-car garage....(30x20)

The plastic roll-down walls sound like a great thing to try out. Never thought of that, it'd be better than nothing.

[Spitfire1776]

One thing I was playing around with the idea of is getting those draw/roll down plastic faux bamboo blinds. Typically found on peoples screened porches. They coveniently come in long lengthes and would be simple to draw down when need. They're pretty close knit so would keep majority of dust out.

And its true what has been said. A lot of those T.V. pro-shops are big, empty, and clean, because they don't really do anywork there. It almost more like a showroom.

[Roothawg]

I suppose you're right about that. I hadn't really thought about it but they do farm out all the crappy stuff.

[Spitfire1776]

Another idea to apply to the dust problem. Household box fans are on sale this time of year. Used in conjunctions with a furnace fiberglass intake filter, makes a nifty dust-cutter-downer. Cheaper than buying a ventilation unit for the whole place. 2 or 3 well placed ones and replace the filter every so often.

Speaking of clean TV pro-shops, I gotta go home and clean my toilet bowl tonight. Its getting a ring.

[48_HEMI]

I'm on this blue tarp thing on a wire. I have plastic that I use in the winter so I only have to heat half the shop. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[DRD57]

I'm going to go against the popular opinion here and cast my vote for walls.

Most of the shops that I've been in that are both productive and organized have separate rooms for different tasks and that's the way I plan to build my own shop when the time comes. I'm in a leased warehouse now so, I just use what I have.

Some of the shops that come to mind are Deuce Customs in Australia, Paul hunter's shop (where Rotten Rodney works), Bob Bauder's shop, and Billy Vinther's garage.

Ideally, I'd like separate rooms for priming/sanding, painting, fabrication, and a clean room for mechanical/machine work. I don't want to be shooting grinder sparks on my paint and body work. I don't want overspray or sanding dust on my exposed engine parts and I don't want oil/silicone spray anywhere near paint and body work.

Also walls give wall space which is handy for leaning cabinets and shelves against. For you disorganized types shelves and cabinets are what organized people use to keep all that shit off of the floor so we have some room to actually work http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I actually believe people are inherently organized or they are not and they rarely if ever change. My dad, at 70 years old, is and always has been disorganized. Once in while he'll say something like "As soon as I get done with this project, I'm going to get this mess cleaned up and get this garage organized". It never happens. It's been a mess as long as he's been there. I must take after my mom. Sometimes I'll stop in the middle of working on the car, to clean up the tools, put them away, sweep the floor and generally get re-organized before proceeding with the project at hand. I just work better and feel more comfortable when everything is organized.

Uh...I think I got off on a tnagent there. Sorry.

[Roothawg]

I'm with ya Don. I am anal about certain things but in order to do the things I want. I hafta to be "compartmentalized".(TM)

I guess the big thing is money. I have a buddy that owns a lumberyard and he is pricing me out all the materials to do the job. Now I just wait for the damage. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[Tinbender]

I went back and forth over the office myself.I went ahead and put one in. I haven't even finished yet, but it was well worth the loss of space. The work space is important, but for years I've wanted a place to display all the old crap I've collected.

[polisher]

Walls are cool.
You can hang all sorts of things on them.
You can keep dust down by picking up large old fashioned humidifiers and putting a/c filters on the inlet.
Moisture dampens dust and makes it drop and also reduces the risk of static dust explosion.
Don't put up any more walls than you need, but put them in the right places then load them up with cabinets, cupboards and hooks.
Polythene makes great temporary dividers and can be used just as a curtain.
Roll it up, drop it down.
Whatever you do don't forget to make space for a fridge.
Great for storing volatile chemicals.
Paint stripper, thinner, solvents,abrasive, beer and any other shop essentials.

[SamIyam]

[ QUOTE ]
I do a lot of bodywork/painting.

[/ QUOTE ]

I never knew you did paint and body work... I guess my above statements sounded weird then... huh?
Sam.

[Roothawg]

Well, it's done. I am pressing on with the idea. Materials will be here in the a.m.

Pics later.