Traditional vs. Ego Stroke

[**DONOTDELETE**]

It's super hot today in So. Cal.- like 100 at the beach where it's ALWAYS 78-degrees and it got me thinking why do people build these REALLY expensive one-off cars (the same guys that scoff at "those old cars that need a tow truck following them") and to me it just boils down to insecurity and little... well, egos.
I think traditional is about being secure that you don't need to impress anyone, you don't need a bunch of trophies and you don't need to sit by your car all day at a show waiting to see people's response and if your car has been properly judged.
During my time with the GG organization I was often pulled aside by irritated and sometimes irrate patrons that were totally pissed that there car was not given and an award and was never properly "judged". They took no comfort in the fact that there is no judging at a GG event and cars are loosely picked because someone thought it was cool. They would blast that they had taken home an award from every local mall show and they would never be coming back to a GG event if they weren't taking home an award. Without even asking it could be easily figured out that this was their first season after making their big purchase and was probably going to be their last. I could write a book about one couple I met and their rise and fall on the GOLD CHAIN roller coaster. I met the husband when he was showing a restored vehicle and was very hot wanting to know how he could get his car looked at. I explained we didn't inspect every vehicle and he was perplexed. My mistake was having a couple guys come over and look at the car that was actually very nice and he proudly flaunted that he paid for the best car in exhistence, along with a lot of other BS that the car was not "restored" because all the paint and interior products used in the rebuild were NOS, so technically it was "unrestored"- yeah right. Well he asked my advice on buying one of them "street rods" and I told him a couple of the cars he was interested in were not good investments. Next time I see him he shows me the car he bought for 250K and proceeds to tell me of the additional 250K spent freshening up the 5 year old car- WOW! I'm impressed!
They next get a big trophy at one of the GG events and they are on cloud nine! They next travel to another GG event and make a point of standing with Boyd at the entrance of Boyd's Pro's Pick area to size up the competition. After Boyd's "Sweet 16" were announced they were very insulted that their car that had just won a major GG title in the same month now did not get a Pro's Pick. They took their complaint directly to the event director and informed him, "If this is how you guys work we will no longer be attending your events!" They were given a sympathy award and continued to be pissed for the remainder of the event. Soon after that I left Goodguys so I'm not sure if they made good on their threat or not.
But that is just one example that I have stayed clear of naming any names and I would appreciate if anyone else knows who I'm talking about just to sit on that info. But this actually happed all the time with just about the exact same story.
Funny thing is I NEVER had this happen only to find out it was the guy in the homebuilt primered Model A pitching a bitch. Something to think about and exactly why I'm traditional for life. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

What I really meant to get to before that description got out of hand is that I don't see or feel any connection between the car and the people pimping them in their custom embroidered shirts and chairs with the car's name on them (yes, as Jimmy Shine said the STUPID NAMES!). All I see when I see these big buck boats is a feeding line with a bunch of people in it that equally don't really care about the car as much as the pay check it represents. Now the guy with the cut up fingers and engine enamel overspray on his glasses to me cares A TON more about his car than the guy that just dropped half a million dollars on his cast of hand picked experts. More power to them and I am in no way jealous, I just prefer to see cars built with heart, not dollar signs. And growing up I have seen some BEAUTIFUL (and not so beautiful cars) built with heart and that just makes the big buck cars look even more plastic.
That's what made me think at the stoplight today, "Who would spend 350K building a "ONE OFF" car that to most onlookers looks like any another "Coast to Coast" or "Boydster", only with a custom grille?" Hell, I don't know- and if I met them I probably wouldn't have anything in common with them.

Sorry, the heat made me do it!

[roadstar]

Good story Jim.

BTW Kirk! said those people were creepy http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Broman]

So how long have you been waiting to get that off your chest? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

[ QUOTE ]
So how long have you been waiting to get that off your chest? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

TOO LONG! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[hatch]

The people who need to buy a trophy are just fish outta water. They were the guys in highschool that looked down on us "car guys"...they were jocks or something else that made them feel superior. Now they want to be one of the gang...no chance with me... I didn't like them "then" and don't like them "now"....The biggest joy I get from receiving an unexpected trophy or "pick" is knowing that some rich fuck self centered ego maniac and his bleach blond "bolt-on" equipped wife may just go home empty handed....and maybe sell their junk and never return.

I get to pick cars at my favorite show in Frankenmuth this coming weekend....The award is a beautiful authentic German Stein and a truly nice thing to have given to you.....The club lets me have free rein and NEVER question what I pick...and keep asking me each year to do it again. I have definitely pissed off a few "chainers"...but have also picked a couple of their cars if they light my fire.....but the whole trophy thing is taken too seriously. It's supposed to be FUN!!!! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I do see some of the elitism now in the "rat rod" group and it's sad....they are just a bunch of "rusty chainers"...same thing(egotists)...only different....oh well....life goes on!

[Foul]

People get funny with their cars. We're quickly learning not to do hand out any awards until near the end of the event, otherwise people leave early, pissed that they didn't get a $6 plastic trophy.

One pair drove to one of our cruise-ins with what looked like an everyday '78 F250 4x4. Beat-up brown paint, 30" wheels, ripped seat, rust pinholing through the bed. Then they come up to me during judging and ask if they've been picked for People's Choice. Then they seemed about ready to cry when the gorgeous restored Airflow got picked over them.

I'm sure they cared a lot for that truck, just like any one of us cares for our own rides, but c'mon. Do some people really need to seek validation through what is, essentially, a compliment?

Anyway, I understand, man.
dan

[tommy]

This is not a new phenomonom. It's been going on ever since the first trophy was awarded. Only the number of digits on the checks have changed. Best of show was replaced long ago for our club with peoples choice and the ladies choice of the "cutest car".

I got a top 35 trophy once. There were 27 cars there. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[slazzen]

I want the Gary Greedy award pick me me me !!!! LOL that is funny

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Years ago I was asked to judge at a local car show put on by the "street machine" guys. I accepted reluctantly. One of the awards was for "Best Engineered". After looking at 50 or so cars I determined that there wasn't much real engineering in any of them. I had one of my circle track cars on display there and it had more engineering in it than the rest combined. I couldn't give the award to myself so I gave it to a home-built T-bucket that had an independent front suspension fabricated by the owner. It wasn't designed all that well but it was chrome-plated... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

They had a class for four wheel drive vehicles. Two entries. There was a crusty old WWII Jeep with a Chevy engine in it. It was half paint and half primer. It had oilcloth covering some junkyard bucket seats and a roll bar bent out of water pipe....unpainted. There was a brand new Jeep with all the factory gizmos that American Motors offered at the time....factory chrome everywhere ! The trophy went to the old Jeep based on the amount of modifications (regardless of how crude). The fancy new one was stock as a clock. Needless to say, the owner of the new model went ballistic and I had judged my last car show.... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Tman]

Joke em if they cant take a fuck! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Petejoe]

I wish awards were never given at any car show regardless of how big or small the show is. I would rather have a guy come up to me and tell me how well I did on a car rather than get his vote and never know he appreciated it.
Its alot more fun talking cars than setting around waiting for the next trophy or getting upset someone received one and another one didn't. nough said....

[WildWilly68]

These types of stories are why I do not go to car "shows". I prefer cruises where people do a lot of bench racing and stuff. I have a neighbor who has a very worn slightly modified old Dart that he takes to every small town show for miles around. He has a pile of plastic and marble all around his garage. He kept after me to show my old (restored) 67 Tempest for years. Finally I showed it at a show he always placed in and I knocked him out of receiving an award...funny, but he never asked me again, and I never showed a car again where they hand out trophies.

Bill

[safariknut]

WOO-HOO is this one gonna be a can of worms! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
When I attend car shows,I either don't enter my car or put a,"do not judge" sign on it that I got at a car show a long time ago.
I do this for a couple of reasons:one,I don't consider my car as being show worthy.The paint is 20 plus years old and dulled,rust is coming through the doors and rockers,I've inadvertantly added a few dents to it in the time I've had it,and it is usually taken to the,"environmental car wash"(a good rain storm).It is my daily driver and I enjoy it.The only reason I take it is to give customers some ideas for their striping.
I have also judged a number of shows.Today there are so many entrants and so few judges it would be nigh impossible to take the time to really check out a car properly.
The last shows I've judged I was asked by the guy putting on the show to pick a car that,in his words,"tripped my trigger".He has 6 awards that he gives out at the show and each one is based on the individual judge's likes.I think the show succeeds very well.I have yet to hear any complaints about the judging and there are a fair number of,"gold chainer"cars at this show.
One year my choice was narrowed to 5 cars:4 old school style rods and a 53 Olds semi custom.It was a tough decision as all of these cars were period correct(as were their owners for the most part) http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gifand I wound up choosing the Olds.It reminded me of a car I used to drool over when I was in high school(I graduated in 1961)and so I chose it.And it WAS beautiful!
Well that's my take for what it's worth.I truly wish most car shows weren't "dick-wavin'"contests but unfortunately they usually are.

[Fat Hack]

I wanna win the fucking "Lenny & Squiggy Award"...beyond that, I don't give a shit! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Grumpy]

I won a Custom Rodder Top10 at GG's Columbus 2 years ago. I thought my buddies were fucking with me and printed the stuff up on there PC's.

Come to find out that our own RF liked my chebby enough to honor it with an award.

I was shocked beyond belief that my primered car "deserved" an award where there were so many "perfect" cars in attendance.
He said it just did something to him. That meant alot to me.
I never expected nor cared if I ever won anything, much less a award at a major show.

BUT..As my wife and I sat with the car for periods of time in the winners arena, none and I mean none of the other Top10 winners and their pit crews would speak to us.
They acted pissed that a primered chevy won what they won.

So we never cleaned the car, or the whitewalls, and sat there with our feet up on the rear bumper smiling away.

Anyway, I just meant to say that I don't go looking for a pat on the back, but being picked by RF was very cool.

heres a pic of the car(gone now)
On with the tread!

[yorgatron]

me and my brother took a $600.00 '54 Hudson rust bucket to a show held at a drive-in movie,we had a blast wandering around talking about cars and meeting everybody,then we turned in our "people's choice" ballots and tried to figure who would win what.to our surprise we got called over the intercom,so we went over to where they hand out the awards. what the hell did we win? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif "car that needs the most help award"! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Cadillacin Marcus]

Nothing new there Jim thats for sure... when i was doing the local Bay area Car show scene as a Disc Jockey..I met em all man..the Ego on these guys used to blow me away..were talking grown adults here that were acting like a couple of spoiled yuppies in high school bragging over who had the better Sports car...PUKE!!!!! I almost got my ass kicked once by a guy because I couldnt stand his arrogant patronizing..he got offended when I explained to him what Hot Rodding was about and how it should be,and that I would rather look at that primered Jalopy with the 49 Merc in it than that Pile of blister packed kit car with the hidious oversized billet wheels on it junk..well....turned out to be his car!!Can you say Foot in mouth?! Yeah, he was pissed and I apologized but with no luck after we exchanged a few unpleasant words,he got carried away,I called for security and had him removed and never seen him again!! hahaha..Oh well.. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif I got a round of applause,,apparently no one liked him much.......

[JimC]

From a guy who won his share of trophies with an ol beater 62 impala, The high from most of the wins is short lived, then you got to come back to earth.

I hauled most of em away a couple of months back, just kept the one Given to me by CarCraft editors at the last Summer Cruise held at Sedalia,Mo in 96, and the one given to me by Jerry Weezner at GG Demoines 98, and the Jomesboro,Ark in 2002. It is unique, as it is a curved, cut glass. Not too many of them around. Ask Bib Overalls about them.

I think that Car guys are STUPID.
A lot of money, blood, sweat, and tears are spent on putting one of our creations together, we take it to a car show, many with no admission for spectators, pay all the money for entry fees, and related expenses(food,motels,t shirts,etc.,etc,) so the average John Doe can finger print them.
Go Figure!

We should ban together and refuse to go to any show that the promoter does not pay our way in.
He makes the money, but would not get any spectators or gate reiepts if there were no cars entered.
Count the cars at large events, think about the entry fee(getting larger each year) and count the gate reciepts(spectators).Looks like money is being made, dont it?

[Cadillacin Marcus]

true...but figure the cost to run such a show also..Its not cheap..the space,entertainment,if any,,trophies,plaques,goodie bags,staff,cost of advertising etc etc..Just ask Kirk who runs the Billetproof show,I'm sure he'll tell ya it aint cheap!

[Tman]

I agree with JimC, why WOULD I pay to park my car so others can make money. I can park outside and have just as many lookie loos fondle it! The promoters should pay us! This is all tounge in cheek mind you. But it raises a point.

[DrJ]

Just tell the loser/whiners they must not have bribed the right judges the right amount of green, and walk away...
and if they go for their wallet tell them it's too late now http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[FRITZ]

I put my Choppers & Cars in shows all the time. To be honest Im more into a root beer and a hot dog chatting with other show entries then winning something. I may go to the Philly bike show with my Panhead, But I'll be outside looking for a cheese steak sub guy more then likely. But thats just me
FRITZ

[KIRK!]

[ QUOTE ]
true...but figure the cost to run such a show also..Its not cheap..the space,entertainment,if any,,trophies,plaques,goodie bags,staff,cost of advertising etc etc..Just ask Kirk who runs the Billetproof show,I'm sure he'll tell ya it aint cheap!

[/ QUOTE ]

Ain't easy, ain't cheap and ain't fun for me. But I dig that people have a good time. That's why the haters get to me so easily. Bitching without any clue about the work or sacrifice.

[Deuce Roadster]

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif



Some years ago........A-Bomb and I ran the largest 1 day show in the state of South Carolina...........350 to 450 cars on a regular basis. We rented the state fairgrounds.

It cost a lot of money to produce..........but it made a lot of money too...... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


The cryers and whiners were there too. They are no concept of why they did not WIN........ http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif we donated the money to charity.........who cares who won? The Childrens Home WON.

I go to events because I want to........look at the cars and shoot the breeze with folks I know........sometimes meet folks I get to know.

I have " WON " at GG, NSRA and others.........must be the car because I am NOT a politican..........Jim A says I am downright Grumpy. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif It's nice to recieve a award but it's just as nice or better to see someone else win who really deserves it.........working on their stuff, sweating and saving........doing side jobs to pay for the parts and labor that has to be farmed out (chrome....nobody doe their own..........real good paint.....ect)

I like the old stuff.........not 22 inch wheels and some fiberglass creation that anybody with a checkbook can buy. 1 off (Roth type) homebuilt stuff is the exception........that true creative kind of stuff.

Everyone has a EGO..........some just have a problem EGO......... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif


.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

[ QUOTE ]
I agree with JimC, why WOULD I pay to park my car so others can make money. I can park outside and have just as many lookie loos fondle it! The promoters should pay us! This is all tounge in cheek mind you. But it raises a point.

[/ QUOTE ]


I brought this up once and it got me into a big fight with JimA, a guy who would otherwise probably be over at my house drinking beer. I was wrong. very wrong.

Not soon after I made a point of thinking my shit was cool enough to mandate a cash prize for just showing up, I tried to help a friend book a wedding in the local park. Now, this is Santa Barbara and I know shit is way too expensive anyway, but if a wedding is 1,000 dollars, how much do you think it is to park hundreds of cars?

I bet car shows are just like air shows and barely break even. I'm not talking about a one-time charity gig. If someone can make a living stressing out over how many people are going to show up or if they will make enough to pay their staff..... good for them.

[Tman]

Gooch, I got ya thinking. Notice my disclaimer http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif But the fact is, many SMALL shows do not deserve our dollars. I am talking the little show we get in every small town that are put on by Jed Clampett. Many are NOT charity events. Many are just money making events for the promoter and his pals.


But what the fuck does that mean, we build our cars for ourselves, not for the spectators.

I would rather have 100 HAMBers come up and tell me they like my car than ONE award from some peoples choice at a big event.

Fuck that, I dont even care about the HAMBers, I built my car in my vision, with my hands, with my budget.

[Cadillacin Marcus]

If you are going to charge for a show,you had better have a one hell of a show,Otherwise forgettaboutit there wont be another...Bottom line, people like something for nothing.
On the subject of awards at your little mall show..The worst politics ever! Its Insanely hilarious! Its like soccer moms and little league baseball parents all wrapped into one!! That shit is so fixed... This is why for the most part,I dont go to shows much.Serious burn out factor applies.Been there done that,yada yada yada...Although with the comeback of the traditional rod,its alot more enjoyable.But then again..its kinda in Vogue which means "Oh your into those Rat Rod Rockabilly kinda cars,ok hmm thats cool though" exact quote from someone....

[JohnnyB327]

[ QUOTE ]
Nothing new there Jim thats for sure... when i was doing the local Bay area Car show scene as a Disc Jockey

[/ QUOTE ]

were you playin that damn 80's music?

[Cadillacin Marcus]

Not at car shows Johnny...I played some of the rarest oldies anywhere,not your top 40 late 60's shit they play on so called oldies stations now...Kick ass Doo Wop by groups like the Shields,Penguins,The Orioles,the Cadillacs etc etc..Alot of Duane Eddy,Link Wray and your basic Hot Rod tunes of course...Don't even get me started with the oldies...Now when I played weddings and other gigs that was a different story.

[JohnnyB327]

thank god! the oldies station i listen to has a deal where they play nothin but pre 63.

[Slag Kustom]

i have been to many shows and always seem to leave before trophy time just cause i dont care. i have more fun out on the road then sitting behind it wipping it with a towel. it is funny when a package comes in the mail with a trophy in it . it just becomes something i got to get rid of now. the only trophys i keep are form when i was very young and won a few shows and drag racing events with my daily driver.

[glassguy]

im the same way...i always leave early then find out i won somethin..i cant even be bothered to stay to see if i won the drawing or raffle..i wonder if i ever won a new truck or crate motor??

[JimC]

Some one mentioned politics.Got to tell this, but first, I am going to say PARTICIPANT judging is a COP OUT for the promoter and should be banned from shows, et. all!

Carthage, Mo Maple Leaf festival puts on a rather large show each fall, 3 to 4 hundred cars.

Last year, one of the locals was not expectd to make it(cancer) and the club he belonged to was disbanding in his honor.
The club had some excess funds in their coffers and decided to use these funds to pay for members and invited guests to enter the show.

My 62 was one of the invited. When I was ready to drive to the show that Sat morning, it was rainy and cool, so I decided not to go.

That evening I went to a local cruise(stopped raining and turned out nice) and one of my buddies handed me a dash plaque fromm the show.
I thought that was cool of him.

He did not say anything except he and another buddy placed at the show.

A couple of weeks go by and I recieved a post card in the mail saying the car club putting on the show had my trophy available for me to pick up or I could send them 10 dollars to get it mailed to me.(I had won a first place and did not even show up!)

Politics? YES! PARTICIPANT judging sucks.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I never meant for this to turn into a car show bash as I think 99% of the people attending are great and the people putting on everything from a local cruise to a major event put in a ton more work than you will ever know. You just don't set up a stand and start piling up the money or else we'd all be doing it. I was just observing something that has come about in the last 10 years with people dropping ridiculous ammounts of money on cars they don't even drive and won't own after the big trophies stop coming in. Maybe they will keep building cars, maybe not. It would just be a lot cooler to see some of them driving down the road after the judging is over, but sadly these cars just disappear.

[Slide]

When I lived in North Carolina, I thought the politics of show judging was bad. Then I moved to Texas. Being new to the area, I started checking out every "show" in the area (they call them "Cruise nights", but they hand out trophies even tho they happen every 2nd Saturday April thru October http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif). After attending about two of these where I literally saw the host club give each other trophies... often the same owner/car would get the same trophy that he/it got a month ago. I still wonder if one of those guys would get pisssed and drop out of his club if someone else got "his" award next month. Maybe that's how the clubs around here black ball the ones thay don't like?

**EDIT: Not all the car events in TX are bad, nor are all the clubs, there were just a couple "Chainer Wanna-be" (as in they were striving to BECOME chainers!) clubs that I want no part of. --end EDIT**

Anyways, back to JimA's comments, I really enjoy a lot of the events, big or small, that are car events for the sake of getting a bunch of cars together. My experience of GG events seems to maintain this. Yeah, I know there's a lot of "cubic dollar" cars there with chainers whinin' about gettin' a little fluorescent dot on their headlight, but it is still about the cars. The whiners like the ones JimA mentioned just don't get it. If they are so caught up in why their car ain't got picked for XYZ Award, then they are in the wrong place. Now if there was just a polite way to tell them this... but as the saying goes, if I hafta explain it to you, then you prolly ain't gonna get it anyway...

[Mass Butcher]

I'm sure that "trophy" mentality is widespread across the US. I was involved for 10 years in a large New England show and saw it all. Some of these guys with the big dollar cars come to an event, and feel because they are there, they should automatically get a trophy. Unfortunately, some promoters baby these guys and help feed the fire by giving them whatever they want.
I have never been to any show that I wanted or cared if I won a trophy. As some mentioned, I usually don't even fill out the registration card. I usually shoot the shit with friends, kick back and have a few beers and watch all the trophy hounds spend the whole day cleaning their cars. If your in it only for the trophies, then your in it for the wrong reason. Plus, if a damn trophy from Jeds Backyard BBQ and Cruise night is that important, more power to you. For me it's about the people and the cars.

[Rand Man]

A lot of the "new" old guys get into cars for the wrong reason. At some point in middle age they find themselves with a little extra time and money and decide to take up a new "sport". The point of sport is to choose a winner. If they don't win they often "throw their clubs" or boo the Referee, like they did in the games they used to play. The Goodguys got he right idea when they decided to hold social gatherings rather than sporting events.

I gave up on my local car club after one the monthly meetings. When I mentioned I was planning to attend the Goodguys event up at Kansas City, the first response was "What type of prizes do give out?" I explained that it was just a fun gathering. The general response was “Why would I haul my car all the way to KC for fun?” I knew I was hanging with the wrong crowd.

I say if you want to compete with cars, take up racing.

[NashRodMan]

I agree!
My trophy comes in building the car then driving what you built. That's where all the enjoyment comes from.
Paul

[Bullet Nose]

Our club puts on an annual car show that's coming up in October. This will be the 27th year and our sole purpose is to raise money for charity. Last year there were over 1,000 1959 and older cars and trucks entered. With the proceeds from this show we donated money to local charities, awarded scholarships to graduating high school seniors and bought presents for needy families at Christmas. Would people come to our show if there were no trophies awarded? I'm not sure. We have tried peer judging and judging by judges and both have flaws. One large club in town pools votes for their club cars and that draws bitches from the out-of-towners, especially when the winning cars are undeserving and the judging looks rigged. I think the way GG picks their winners may be the best and we do some of our trophies that way (cops, mayor, fire department and sponsors picking the cars). I was able to choose a car last year and picked the car I liked best. If someone had a bitch about it, they could see me. We put in a ton of work to organize this show, and spend a lot of money on it, but there are always going to be people who find something to bitch about. Last year a rusty old Model A with shit hanging all over it won a top ten award. Why? Because more people voted for that car than any of the other 1,000 cars in the show and we heard bitches about why that car won a top ten. When someone comes up with the perfect car show solution, I hope they'll let us all know the answer.

[52Chief]

There's no great solution to the car show thing. I agree that participants chioce does get rigged 9 times out of 10, and judging is not always fair. But it's not just the car show thing either. I grew up showing horses, and politics played a heavy part there too. I was in 4-H, and raised sheep and cows, politics played a part in judging at fairs too. It seems that you can't get away from it. The more money and the more "connections" you have, the better you do at those types of things. It used to hurt my feelings a lot as a kid, and a lot of times I just didn't understand. I did the best I could, but "Susy" still won because her trainer was friends with the judge, and I was a backyard "nobody".

But thankfully, as an adult, I've come to not care about an award. Like you guys have said, friendship and hanging out talking about car stuff is the only reason we go to shows or cruises. Plus I like looking at the cars, and it'd be hard to do if I had to drive all around town to do it.
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[KIRK!]

Honestly I have never heard anyone bitch about the awards at Billetproof. Mostly I think it's because the people who come are not trophy hunters. They build cars for the love of the cars.

If you build a car for attention or trophies........you missed the point.

[Bugman]

I don't take my car to car shows because I never win, and it hurts my feelings, cause I know I care more about my car, and have more blood, sweat, and tears invested in it than the guys with the high dollar billet dildo's ever will.

-Jeff

[cabriolethiboy]

Like a friend of mine's wife says; They are dick measuring contests.

[porknbeaner]

Jim
The part you really missed on the high zoot guys is that you forever have to remind them to have fun.
I was at a low buck show last weekend and noticed that everyone was haveing fun without being reminded.
Just think about it for a minute, then leme ask another question if its not fun why do it?
As for ego, some of the Trad guys have an ego problem also, but perhaps its just the highzoot guys bleedin' over. But who really cares, if you're enjoying yourself that's really all that matters.
Ya really can't be responsable for what someone else drives or if they are enjoying it or not.

[safariknut]

This is just my opinion but I think the one show that's got it right is the Ty-Rods Old Timer's Reunion that is coincidentally coming up this weekend.
They limit the entries(at least up until this year)to 1200.The entry fee includes a double sided T-shirt(usually by Bruce Kaiser),a mug that sports the same art and the first fillup is free,a nice dash plaque,and assorted handouts.There are NO trophies awarded,but there are door prizes(usually advance registrations for the next year's show)and a grand prize of a crate motor(only registered owners are eligible and you have to be there to win).
You see more nice old iron there than any other show I can name and up until this year anyway the cutoff is 1959 so there are no muscle cars or Corvettes(unless they are early ones)or bikes(with the possible exception of a certain nailhead powered one).
I don't know how it's going to go off this year(I didn't register so I'm not going)as the venue has been changed and the cutoff point has been adjusted but I'm sure it will be another fantastic show.Oh yes the only vendors are food vendors.So if you're in Massachusetts this weekend,check it out;you won't be disappointed.

[Bruce Lancaster]

"As for ego, some of the Trad guys have an ego problem also, but perhaps its just the highzoot guys bleedin' over. But who really cares, if you're enjoying yourself that's really all that matters. "
Traditional and high Zoot have been overlapping heavily in recent years--lots of recent converts/faddists are quite proud of their high dollar acquisitions of early Ford and speed parts, and flaunt the results as show ratrods or traditional rods--and the real surviving cars have joined the Classic set at pebble beach. Imagine what something like the Spencer or Scritchfield or Livingstone rods would fetch at a current auction run the day after Pebble Beach! I'm hoping the zoots will go on to something else soon, though there are still enough hardcore traditionalists around to keep '32 Fords and such insanely expensive. I've been trying to get hold of '32 and flathead stuff now since I was a child, and have seen every stage from utter obsolescence through streetrodd survival through goldchainer to Pebble Beach. I just want the blasted trend to go away and leave us permanently fixated nutcases alone.

[willowbilly3]

The best part of most car shows is the parking lot.