Traditional vs. Non-Traditonal & the HAMB

[CLSSY56]

The HAMB from my understanding is a Traditional hotrod site.

Yet why are there post on disk brakes, th350s and Mustang II suspension. These are just a few of the ones I have seen today, which are clearly not traditional?

[Gigantor]

I thought the only way these would fly around here were if they were hidden (under fenders or even behond old backing plates) - other than that, I agree with you.

[zombie]

sure seems to be a lot of s-10 frame questions as well. i too have noticed more of the non traditional threads.

[CLSSY56]

I don't disagree about safety and reliability, just wondering why these posts survive and others get bashed or get deleted.

[JBEAU]

Just my two cents...I kinda like to stop....and a nasty small block or hemi or Nailhead.....can be a handfull and we drive ours way to much to compromise safety...pullin my Roadster down from a 11 sec pass ain't fun with drums....and I like me alot....technology advances for a reason...and can still be cool and or hidden...

[Crusty Nut]

I really like it when someone bitches about the content on a free acess message board. You could:
A- not look at those posts
B- start your own message board
C- STFU

[zombie]

safety and reliability are one thing, but couldn't give a shit about a shoebox on an s-10 frame, or how to put some fuel efficient jap 4 banger in a roadster. they seem like subjects for another forum.

[CLSSY56]

So, what's the definition of "traditional" or is there a fine line between "traditional" and "retro-mod"?

[JBEAU]

depends on the era you are building for.....40s 50s 60s.....

[Unkl Ian]

Depends on how high your cuffs are.

[zombie]

So, what's the definition of "traditional" or is there a fine line between "traditional" and "retro-mod"?

personally, i dont think it is as confusing as people have made it. a pre 65 vehicle built in a pre 65 style, with period parts. and yes, i have been called a traditional nazi, and im ok with that. a flatback shoebox on an s-10 chassis with red wheels and a set of radial white walls is not traditional. i dont care how you slice it.

I really like it when someone bitches about the content on a free acess message board. You could:
A- not look at those posts
B- start your own message board
C- STFU


a- this has always been a traditional message board. not how to get your "donks" to fit in your fender well, or how to turn your s-10 into a ratrod.

[stillkruzn]

As I said on the thread that was deleted, I don't have a problem with MII IFS on a full fendered car... it doesn't belong on a fenderless car... as far as disc brakes, I know they aren't traditional, but I have running them on front and rear... my car isn't completely 'traditional' but it was built the way I wanted... as we all build our cars...

as far as the definition of 'traditional'... there are over 50,000 people on the HAMB now... so how many definitions do you think there are...

[1LOWCHIEF]

personally, i dont think it is as confusing as people have made it. a pre 65 vehicle built in a pre 65 style, with period parts. and yes, i have been called a traditional nazi, and im ok with that.

You forgot to add that you can only use period correct tools, with the work being done by period correct (i.e. old) guys drinking period correct beverages in a period correct garage.

If you can't meet all of those criteria... then GTFO, am I right?

[CLSSY56]

I guess this is more of a question for Ryan and the moderators. What is acceptable, border line and what gets deleted? Also why are smart-assed replies acceptable, as they don't do the post, the poster or the HAMB any good (in my opinion).

[metalshapes]

If you can't meet all of those criteria... then GTFO, am I right?

No...

All you have to do, is Post things that are Relevant and On Topic.


Like Ryan explained here.

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44274

[metalshapes]

I guess this is more of a question for Ryan and the moderators. What is acceptable, border line and what gets deleted? Also why are smart-assed replies acceptable, as they don't do the post, the poster or the HAMB any good (in my opinion).

Drama gets Deleted.( or Closed )


If you see anything thats not acceptable, please Report it...

[CLSSY56]

So why wouldn't replies get deleted instead of the closing or deleting the whole post?

[metalshapes]

So why wouldn't replies get deleted instead of the closing or deleting the whole post?

Sometimes they do, that depends on the Thread.

[Ryan]

Traditional is tough to define as it means a lot of different things to a lot of different people... This forum has always been based on the inspiration of tradition. We've always allowed discussion on topics such as mustang II suspensions (on fendered cars mostly), th350s, disc brakes, etc... And I can think of more than a few cars that have all of the above that I love... and consider traditionally inspired. My '38 being one of them.

I guess it's a pretty shallow interpretation on our part, but it seems to work and people seem to enjoy our range most of the time. Sorry if you don't... We try - promise.

Along the same lines, posts on earthquakes, ramblurs, Edsels, and raising your boys (all threads started by you) aren't traditionally traditional, but we let them slide on ocassion because we know those threads mean something to somebody... even if they don't make sense to us.

Point being, it's a big world out there and we only fence in a small part of it.

[gnichols]

Ok, I've already been in trouble once today...

Conversely, then why do posts or pix with tatooed / pierced women persist? Or of rusty, borderline builds (you know, the ones most folks politely call R.. Rods and others just call S... boxes?). Or of the "art cars" - humorous or otherwise more personalized versions of the cars in the preceeding category that, for some unknown reason, bring a smile to our faces for their creativity despite being equally unfinished and probably even more unsafe?

Or posts on fenderless pickups with tractor grilles and no bed floors? Or the bone stock shoe-boxes with wide whites and a flying eye ball decal? How did those cars become traditional hot rods? I don't remember seeing cars like that when I was a kid being particularly special or anything you'd aspire to own. Come to think of it, I didn't EVER see cars like that back then, ever, at all. Perhaps I didn't get baptised in the right stream, live in the right burb?

When I think of the car scene back then.. the hot rod girls were like WWII nose art, or Playboy pinup pix, or prom queens; the music was all over the board, from Elvis to BoDidley to the Everly Bros. (no punk / garage bands / rap). Yeah, you can only take so much of the old stuff at times, but that's how it was.

When I think of the golden years of traditional rodding, I think more of post WW2 or the Korean War up to perhaps Vietnam, but I know it started earlier than that. Even the trampiest of women back then didn't have tatoos or piercings. There were NO fenderless, rust-O-matic pickups called hot rods. Or published in magazines. A shop truck was a shop truck. It wasn't a "weathered" fake shop truck. About the only thing those cars and some of the new "hot rods" have in common is steel. If you're gonna allow fake, weathered shop trucks, then you might as well allow glass cars as long as they have the right "look" eh?

I didn't say I didn't like the new stuff I see here (I LOVE fenderless pickups with Fordson grilles!) or borderline women (who doesn't!), it's just that those aren't the iconic images I remember from the 50's and 60's. So if I can tolerate and enjoy them, why can't a fellow use a disc brake or IFS when he wants to? I also remember customs and show cars venturing into all kinds of new tech back then, like air bags and independent suspension (Bignotti) and using trick stuff and speed equipment borrowed from salt cars, drag cars, oval cars, and them sporty cars. I also remember hot rodders stuffing big American OHV mills into home built cars and creaming those little sporty jobs in road races, too. Had your Rodentia rod road racing lately? Will it corner, stop, or run at freeway speeds all day? Many other rods of the time could do that as they did double duty as race cars and street cars - so they almost HAD to have stuff like disc brakes and fuel injection, and seat belts to keep up with the competition and to be legal to race. Those guys wanted to go fast and the sanctioning bodies saw the need to make them safer - and so they all looked for the new stuff.

The only primer I remember seeing a lot was on unfinished cars and the glass hoods of gassers, briefly, before it got painted. When I think of the cars back then, I remember a lot more of chrome and flashy paint, and all kinds of wierd off the wall stuff, like shag carpet and upholstered fender wells (they did it to cover up their crappy looking chassis', as I understand it). Folks took pride in the rides.. things got painted and polished now and then. In fact, didn't those cars get SO flashy and SO chromed they no longer worked? Sooner or later even the show promoters MADE the show cars actually operate to be considered for awards. And if CNC miling or EFI had been invented back then, bet ya it would have been used, on race, street and show cars.

But regardless of how I feel, if the "unsaid" rules of this board are not working for the harder core folks, then I guess it's time for a manifesto of some kind, eh?

But I'd hate to see fiber glass and Ed Roth outlawed for being "too smooth" or machined parts banned because they are too "billet," or seat belts removed because cars back then didn't have them - besides drivers back then had bigger balls (which evidently cushioned their impacts.)

Gary

[zombie]

i understand that on a message board you are going to have a little play. in the magazine we have run (fendered) cars with disk brakes, and even featured a couple of customs with radial tires. however, it was the s-10 frames and new 4 cylinder jap engines that pushed me over the edge.

[Ryan]

See, there is another opinion... This could go on for days... and has in the past.

And frankly, I don't think it's that interesting of a discussion.

[Ryan]

i understand that on a message board you are going to have a little play. in the magazine we have run (fendered) cars with disk brakes, and even featured a couple of customs with radial tires. however, it was the s-10 frames and new 4 cylinder jap engines that pushed me over the edge.

Those posts need to be reported. I certainly haven't seen them.

We don't allow mini dragsters either! :)

[metalshapes]

We don't allow mini dragsters either! :)

Unless they look like this...:D

[Ryan]

Holy shit! What is that?

[BBobb]

Traditional is tough to define as it means a lot of different things to a lot of different people... This forum has always been based on the inspiration of tradition. We've always allowed discussion on topics such as mustang II suspensions (on fendered cars mostly), th350s, disc brakes, etc... And I can think of more than a few cars that have all of the above that I love... and consider traditionally inspired. My '38 being one of them.

I guess it's a pretty shallow interpretation on our part, but it seems to work and people seem to enjoy our range most of the time. Sorry if you don't... We try - promise.

Along the same lines, posts on earthquakes, ramblurs, Edsels, and raising your boys (all threads started by you) aren't traditionally traditional, but we let them slide on ocassion because we know those threads mean something to somebody... even if they don't make sense to us.

Point being, it's a big world out there and we only fence in a small part of it.


I have been a member of this forum for a little over a year now. Their is no doubt that i am a true newbie greenhorn.I have wanted to ask and or start the same type of thread simply becuase i was not sure about the differance of opinions of traditional and not so traditional.So i have also learned in my 44 yaers on this earth that some times it is better to be thought a fool rather than open your mouth and remove all doubt. Thanks Ryan i have learned a little more about the differance between the two with out all the hype and trashing

[metalshapes]

Holy shit! What is that?

An Allard FED.

Powered by a Shorrock Blown 4 Cyl English Ford...:)

[CLSSY56]

No, I never said it does, I'll admit my 56 is a retro-mod, rat rod, or whatever you want to call it. It just bothers me when someone bashes someone else for not being traditional or mouths off with a smart-ass comment, neither of which helps the guy or gal out. This just seems to happen time and time again, and that is what puts me off.

[gnichols]

Sad to say, I enjoy the I-4 and V-6 posts too. But not all 4 bangers are Jap, some are GM and Ford... Gary

[woodguy@woodieworks.net]

I am on a MAC.. guess that is not traditional...lol

[Ryan]

No, I never said it does, I'll admit my 56 is a retro-mod, rat rod, or whatever you want to call it. It just bothers me when someone bashes someone else for not being traditional or mouths off with a smart-ass comment, neither of which helps the guy or gal out. This just seems to happen time and time again, and that is what puts me off.

Then report it. It's easy and fun!

[denis4x4]

I've been a hot rodder for almost 50 years. I also made a damn good living in the hot rod industry while having more fun with all of my clothes on then most people! That said, I find the "traditional" people here worse than hard core Model A restorers.

Consider this: how many of the HAMB traditionalists could build an era correct car using only the "little books" and HOT ROD magazines printed before 1960? These guys are using the internet, HAMB, EBay, Craig's List, etc to gather info and parts. We didn't even have decent swap meets in the 50's. Want to guess what a long distance call cost in 1955?

I'm always looking for new and better ways to make my 1929 Extended CCPU better and the Zipper is a work in progress that will never be finished.

While I appreciate a well executed hot rod or kustom that pays tribute to a specific era, this is a hobby that has more facets to it than Elizabeth Taylor's diamonds!

To sum up in my mind, the HAMB is a great resource for car guys.

[metalshapes]

...That said, I find the "traditional" people here worse than hard core Model A restorers.


I push the "Trad" thing as far as I can.

For me...Because I enjoy doing it.
And thats why I try to get as good as I can with old style techniques like Hammerwelding, Sandbending exhaust pipes, etc.

My Roadster was on the Road before I found the HAMB, so it wasn't to try and build a car that would fit in anywhere either.
And there are plenty of area's where I "cheated"... ( T5, upgrated guts in the mcCullogh, etc )

And I'm doing the exact same thing right now with a '70s build.
Trying to build a car that is correct for its era.
( and if there is a place thats specifically for cars like that, I havent found it yet...)


But then again...
I have no real problem with hardcore Model A restorers either.

I'm not really into what they are into, but I can appriciate the effort...


Seems to me, people worry too much about other peoples crap...

[CG]

...Seems to me, people worry too much about other peoples crap...

So simple yet so hard for people to figure out...Nicely said

[corncobcoupe]

My best advise is if you truely have to wonder what Quote "Traditional Cars" are than don't post for awhile and just observe.

90% of the time, most topics on the HAMB are cars and life style of some sorts something to do with the 40's,50's and 60's era of the automotive industry.

Everyone has an opinion -lets face it- and if there were any questions of any of you expressing it than by all means ask the owner himself Ryan and he would give you a 100% honest answer.

After all this is his sight, and what I have learned in associating with him is his enjoyment is sharing his passion for those automotive times and letting others share their world of what ,where when and why it meant to them.

Pretty cool if you ask me.

As far as guys slamming each other, just report it to a moderator and we'll handle it.

There are always going to be bad apples in a 50,000 apple bushel and we have weeded out the ones who didn't choose to respect the outline and foundation that this site was set up for to share.

Ryan grew up in a different part of the country than I did so not all things "traditional" was the same except the following.......
They all had tires/oil and gas and they all made noise.
How you made it look was your area style I guess.

As far as the girls of that era - they came in all shapes and styles but the style in that era was unique to that time.

Share those 30's, 40's 50's and 60's era boys boys and enjoy but remember when in doubt ask the guy who started this bitchin web site ....Ryan.

Pretty EZ and a lot of fun !

Cob
Classifieds Moderator

[Flat Ernie]

As usual, Alex's spot-on observation says it all.

I'm a big fan of "traditionally inspired" - what the hell does that mean? For me (and there's the important bit), it means upgrading a few non-visible things here and there to make my ride more enjoyable.

A T5 behind a flatty is a perfect example. Traditional? Nope. Do you see it? Not unless you're crawling under my car. Does it make the car more enjoyable (to me)? You bet. Will the California Supremacist Traditional Nazis think less of me? Who cares.

It's about having fun.

[Lee Martin]

Seems to me that if cars running TH350s aren't traditional enough for this forum, the HAMB car count would be thinned considerably.

-Lee
Atomic Radio
www.atomicpinup.com

[SinisterCustom]

Seems to me that if cars running TH350s aren't traditional enough for this forum, the HAMB car count would be thinned considerably.

-Lee
Atomic Radio
www.atomicpinup.com

Glad I'm runnin' a TH400........:D

And I'm doing the exact same thing right now with a '70s build.
Trying to build a car that is correct for its era.
( and if there is a place thats specifically for cars like that, I havent found it yet...)

70's build? May I ask what? I actually dig some of the 70's stuff....:)

[metalshapes]

Glad I'm runnin' a TH400........:D



70's build? May I ask what? I actually dig some of the 70's stuff....:)


'73 Capri.

In the style of the '70s IMSA/FIA Racers.

467797

The same flaires as the Factory used on their racers, modified suspension, big brakes, 9" rear, 4speed, short stroke SBC on Webers.

467799

467800

[gnichols]

What, a sporty car? Man, have we stretched the definition of non-traditional, eh? But... street versions of SCCA/IMSA cars back in the 70's were probably the first "tuner cars" but at least most of them were made from American Iron - Pony Cars and 'Vettes - and run on brute force and beer.

FYI, in college I worked / hung out with the guys who made / raced this car... the AUSCA Capri out of Libertyville, IL. By any chance are you a Capri forum member, too? Buds with Norm at Team Blitz? Gary


http://images41.fotki.com/v1253/photos/1/1041225/6340552/untitled-vi.jpg

[metalshapes]

What, a sporty car? Man, have we stretched the definition of non-traditional, eh?

Yep...

Not a real good fit on the HAMB, so I dont Post about it ( unless it just comes up in conversation, like this ...)

I have a Street Freak version of the same model too...

[SinisterCustom]

That's pretty badass Alex......I've always had a soft spot for early SCCA and IMSA type cars.... Datsun 510's in particular. Just love the flared wheelwells.....

[metalshapes]

That's pretty badass Alex......I've always had a soft spot for early SCCA and IMSA type cars.... Datsun 510's in particular. Just love the flared wheelwells.....

Thanks, man...

Those Flares were hard to get.

Found a company in England that took their molds from an original Factory Built Racer.
The Shipping was as much as it cost to buy them....

But it was worth it. :D

[SinisterCustom]

Have ya driven it yet???? Sounds like a fun ride with the SBC.:eek::D

[metalshapes]

Not with the SBC.

Drove it with the V6 for a while untill it blew a headgasket.

Its one of those projects that keeps getting more radical during the build, so that's why it's taking longer than I planned to build it...