Are Fenderless A sedans really traditional

[Boones]

Been looking thru some books that cover hotrods of the 50's and 60's plus the new 30 yrs of R&C and I do not think I seen a single picture of a fenderless Model A sedan (saw one or two 32/34). So it got me thinking that maybe they were not done fenderless in the early days (you see lots of roadsters and coupes) and the ones built were done with fenders (have seen lots of pics of fendered Sedans on big rakes)

It almost seems like the fenderless Model A sedans did not become popular until the 90's (but were the rare expection prior to that).

Does anyone have pics from the 50/60's of fenderless Model A sedans (not current ones done in a 50's or 60's style)

Am I wrong.......

[fatassbuick]

Thaaat's it. No more fenderless sedans.

Actually, I don't think Model As were all that popular until the "other" Fords were used all up.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

honestly, I think A sedans are way cooler than their price right now. I am looking to buy one for my wife and kid. I love those cars

I have a feeling that the early hot rod guys would pick you up by your underwear if you showed up with one minus fenders.
I could be wrong though.

[=mike=]

I always thought if them as the " Archie & Jughead " cars of the hot rod set . Kind of like fenderless touring tubs & stuff like that .Though I have seen some pretty cool ones lately , I agree with Gooch .

[**DONOTDELETE**]

[ QUOTE ]
It almost seems like the fenderless Model A sedans did not become popular until the 90's (but were the rare expection prior to that).

[/ QUOTE ]

When you're right you're right! Nailed it on the head! When fenders were plentiful everyone had them. When they started building cars out of bodies that had been pushed around the farm for 40 years they just left the crumpled fenders off. Even the drag A Sedans in the fifties had fenders- EXACTLY why I'm leaving them on mine. An A frame and nice fenders are cheaper than a Deuce frame. First "traditional" hot rod I EVER saw was the Chrisman A Tudor in a "time warp" section of a late sixties R&C. That one hooked me and I went on to collect a ton of old magazines when I was a kid and my dad took me to all the swap meets. I didn't know why I loved the fifties cars in the seventies- just did. Blame it all on Happy Days and Sha Na Na!

[Boones]

Having ones underwear pulled up above your head is not cool.....

[Rocky]

In my part of the country the local and state fender laws entered into a decision to run with or without fenders. The last 10 or 15 years have been good to us non-fendered guys with a definite relaxation of those laws. Now, we all can run without fenders without being hassled by "da man" as much as before...
I still like a non fendered A bone sedan.

[Deuce Roadster]

[ QUOTE ]

Actually, I don't think Model As were all that popular until the "other" Fords were used all up.

[/ QUOTE ]

When Fatassbuick is right ..................HE'S RIGHT..........

I was born in the 40's and I do not remember any HotRod Model A sedans.......fenders or otherwise ....in the 50's or 60's. They were just too much "Old Folks" rides...............plus they would not accept a BIG V8 and transmission without major reworking. And then you still had the weak frame issue. 1932 Fords on the other hand...........would take a V8 and had twice as strong a frame. Nobody wanted a Model A.............they did not even restore them back them http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Then the 33 -34 were even better at adapting.
I would NOT want to have this considered Model A bashing......I like them..... I just never wanted to own one. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif


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[fordnutz]

I think fenderless anything years ago was rare. Unless it was a roadster and weighed under 1500 pounds in Cal. it had to have fenders. In Canada on the west coast and probably elsewhere there are fender laws on the books although these days they are not as rigid about enforcing them. Where I live in Saskatchewan, we have a fair weather law, so fenderless is legal in nice weather. Also no front license or bumpers are required. Seeing a model A fixed up in the 40's -50's was rare. The car to have was a 32 and preferably a roadster or coupe. Not many sedans made the cut. The fenderless thing is a recent thing, especially on sedans. Nutz.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Nobody wanted a Model A.............they did not even restore them back them

[/ QUOTE ]

That's some nice selective memory but there was a time (a very long time) when RESTORED and HOT RODDED Model A's out numbered '32's by a HUGE margin. That's from a WEST COAST point of view (not South Carolina). And I'm not predjudice as I've owned more '32s than As and my dad owns a sweet '32 3-Window.
But out here from the early fifties to the early seventies RESTORING Models As was a HUGE deal. And coming from my landlord Rich Guasco who grew up in a California wrecking yard and put together his A V-8 that eventually took home the AMBR trophy in 1961, "nobody wanted the '32 bodies, we torched off beautiful bodies just to get the frames and put A Roadsters on them". Back then an A Roadster body was worth 30-50 dollars and you could get a nice '32 coupe for $25.

Look at Hot Rod from about '52 to '65 and you will see MULTIPLE cool Model As in most issues. Ever seen the Spotlite books and special edition books from Petersen in the sixties on Model A's? They never made one on '32 Fords despite the apparent demand.

So I don't know where you guys get the belief that Model A's were discovered in the '80s, but the very first AMBR was an A and up until '79 only ONE '32 grabbed that title.
Out here in the '50s and '60s there were parts stores in most big cities and even car lots that sold nothing but Model A's.

[Crease]

Agreed, underwear should remain below the head when possible and sedans look really cool without fenders. Frcikin HRH sold the fenders off his Sedan and almost financed the whole damn project. Traditional or not, that's pretty damn cool. It's like tradin your hemoroids (sp?) for a super model.

[AHotRod]

Boones,
Traditional ? Well, today they are in my opinion, I love the look, and that's why I'm starting to build one in the whay that I want it to look.

[Muttley]

[ QUOTE ]
Having ones underwear pulled up above your head is not cool.....






[/ QUOTE ]

Are you speaking from experience? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

[willowbilly3]

I want one so I can have a/c. That way I have something cool to drive when it is too hot out for normal humans, not that I am one.

[Broman]

Is this thread really happening?

It feels like I just went to Bizarro HAMB.

[Deuce Roadster]

[quote
but there was a time (a very long time) when RESTORED and HOT RODDED Model A's out numbered '32's by a HUGE margin. That's from a WEST COAST point of view (not South Carolina).

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that Model A's out number 32's.......at about 10 to 1...from Ford http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

He said Hot Rod fenderless sedans. In South Carolina.........(not the West Coast).....where both Boones and I are at......Model A's were unwanted and unloved.....in the 50's and 60's. The old mechanical brakes, 4 cylinder engines and old age kept them from daily use (most were worn out after WWII anyway). Stock car racers did not race them, the Moonshiners could not use them (too slow) and the Hot Rodders wanted the faster V8 cars http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

You did see a good many of them cut down to make a field truck.......a homemade flatbed sorta truck to haul fruit and crops from the fields.

I like Model A's..............I put Boones on the one he has. He got it from a good friend of mine. He sold it to fund his 32 5Window project......... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


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[Boones]

Folks, it was not my intent to slam fenderless A sedans or hurt the feelings of their owners. I am building one myself, just wanted to ask the question about it being a traditional ride.. There are tons of cool fenderless ones out there and I lover the look of both but I wanted to see if my thoughts were valid... Model A sedans were not the choice of body style to run in a fenderless mode back in the early days of Hot Roddings.

Jim, do think you are correct about A's being so strong in the 70's.. I was living in So Cal and attending the rod runs during that time and remember seeing alot more fendered A's then fenderless 32 roadsters. Heck my dad even bought my mom a pee yellow A coupe with slotted mags back then...

This is some good healthy discussion about our history, not bizarro..

[Just Gary]

Excellent topic. I think FatAssBuick is correct.

This is an Gabby Bleeker's Austin fuel sedan from the mid '60's, not an A, but I use it to make a point- The issue is one of supply & demand. Sedans are heavier than coupes; and coupes are heavier than roadsters. When the supply of desirable cars; whether it's A-roadsters, deuce 3-windows, or whatever, people fall back to the next most desirable car (or they reproduce those desirable cars in fiberglass http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif )

BTW, Mr. Bleeker's sedan is the inspiration for a very slowly growing pile of parts that will become my next car.

[klazurfer]

Quote : "So it got me thinking that maybe they were not done fenderless in the early days " ...Boones , .. I was born `60 ( in Norway ), so what I know about early Hot rodding is from readin`magazines and Books ..
Started out with R&C , Hot Rod , Rod Action and Street Rodder , and then "American Rodder". No doubt , the early seventies R&C made the biggest impact , but the rest was fun to read aswell ..
When Don Montgomery Released his books ,They made a Huge differense .. !!
If someone should Wonder what was built back in the early days , well , it is fully coverd`in those books . Other than that , ... Don himself raced a Graham!! 4door , so there is no reason why fenderless A-tudors should be considered out of place. ... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif BTW .. Coupes wasn`t considered real race-car material until the late forties .. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[hammeredabone]

Boones, If they pull the underwear that high,At least the shit stain will be on the back of your head!
A good number of A sedans ran fenderless, in the early sixties I knew of several in my area Albany, New York.
Maybe fenderless A sedans were mostly an Eastern Look. I had two myself and neither had fenders but my 33 3 window was fendered! Go Figure

[klazurfer]

I realy like this interwiew .. http://www.metalshapers.org/nitrogeezers/Don%20Montgomery%20Transcripts.htm

[Digger_Dave]

My decision to make my '28 A Tudor "fenderless" was easy; no fenders!

Seriously, many sedans in this part of the country were run without fenders both ON and OFF the race tracks.

[hatch]

Traditional????....take a 1932 ford of any body style...leave the body at the dump....install Model A body on the 1932 chassis.....just like the old days!!!....have you EVER heard or read of it being done in the opposite way...(trash the model a body and replace it with a deuce?)...I never have....tradition is history...read the history....learn the history.

[Boones]

hatch, your words are what drove me to ask the question

[ QUOTE ]

....tradition is history...read the history....learn the history.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not in Don's books or the R&C 50th do I see fenderless Model A sedans.

Will it stop me from doing mine fenderless, no, I am building what I like....I was just trying to learn more about the history...

[suedesled]

Well guys. at least for me I would have to say they where built in the 50's. Tony knows my car well. It was chopped and extremely channeled with no fenders and built in "58 the first time.

[hatch]

Here's my "bottom line" on what I learned from history....early hotrodders wanted to go fast...no rules...just GO FAST.....customizers wanted to pick up chicks....look cool.

Today the two areas have met...sometimes with good results...sometimes not.

Build a fenderless A sedan....make it fast...make it cool...make it whatever you want....fuck the restorers (AKA.. the hot rod rule makers)...it's ALL about creating something that pleases YOU!!!!!!!!

[squirrelmurphy]

In the early days, if it wasn't a roadster it wasn't a hot rod. I don't think that Model A sedans were a real hot commodity way back in the day. Way back nobody wanted 5 windows either, they used to get cut up for patch panels to fix roadsters or 3 windows.

That said, plenty got built. Does anybody have a pic of the A sedan that Chrisman ran at the drags? I don't think that had fenders, but it was a race car...

[Rand Man]

Here in the heartland (MO-KAN-OK-ARK), they were very popular as circle track racecars in the Super Modified class (open wheel sedans). Most people don't know the influence the dirt has had on our hobby. The kids tore off the fenders to copy their heroes at the local speedway. The attached photo is one example. A real Hot Rod.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

[ QUOTE ]
Does anybody have a pic of the A sedan that Chrisman ran at the drags? I don't think that had fenders, but it was a race car...

[/ QUOTE ]

Definitely had fenders, and it still does.

[metalshapes]

Someting I have been wandering about, and maybe some of the LSR Race Historians know the answer.
All things being equal Chassis and Engine wise, which body style is more Aerodynamic?
A Coupe or a Sedan?
My guess would be the Sedan because of the Kamm Effect ( chopped off tail you see on a lot of old race cars )

[marq]

we call pulling underwear up someones back or over thier head a wedgie here...........i'm not sure why though,,,,,,,,,,,Marq

[mccarrol]

I know you asked about A's and I've yet to see a picture. In the Hot Rod Annual of 1958 there are two pictures of Deuce sedans being dragged. One belonged to Texan Bob Carson and the other was called "The Fire Fly" driven by Bob Daniels of Marysville, Ohio. I would guess there must have been fenderless A's as well.

[Kevin Lee]

Well, there was at least one cool one.

[adjustablejohnsons]

http://www.gassermadness.com/norms/Coupe-Sedan/

Lot's of pictures of coupes and sedans. Maybe not as far back as original post referred to.

[Tony Bones]

Are fenderless A sedans traditional?

Does a bear shit in the woods?

[porknbeaner]

Probably depends on who's tradition you're talkin' about.
I don't recall lots of sedans when I was little, but the ones I do recall really stick in my mind.
Seems to me the ones that I recall went both ways. Some with and some without.
Real little would be late '50s and early '60s. Mostly N Cal.
Probably not much help but maybe it muddies up the water a little.
Books are written about the things we want to remember the way we want to remember them. Magazine or hard bound its always been swayed a little by politics, if the guy with the camera don't like roadsters and he has a choice of coupe or roadster what do you suppose he's gonna shoot.
Sometimes he doesn't have a choice, if the guy buttering the bread either likes hoops or makes hoops what do you suppose will get featured.
Not too many books get written about the guys on the fringe.

[RileyRacing]

It's not an A but Dean Moon and company had a fenderless deuce sedan that was voted one of the hottest rods of '51. (pg 15 Moon Equipped By David Featherston).

It's done Highboy style, and even has a pic from '50 running a 40 hood to try to get max speed.

Boones, I am reminded of a favorite Conway Twitty song...
"It's only Make Believe". We are living a time past, and as such sometimes we take "liberties" with things that may or may not have happened... just cruise over to the SASS site if you think the guys here are overboard on "tradition". http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Build your car in a traditional style, and be happy, dude.
PS...Keep an eye on my condo for me (downtown Charleston) cause I have a feeling you guys are gonna get the FLA aftermath. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Jay

[FoMoCo_MoFo]

Both SCTA and Rusetta timing assciations had sedan classes in the early Fifties.

Of all the pictures i have seen of sedans on the lakes none had fenders though the majority of them were 32's

[Boones]

Grmlock, thanks for the pic..

Rocket, local weather is saying they do not expect anything but a little extra rain.. Next time town let me know...


After reading all the post I get a sense that some folks are twisted a little that I even question that the fact that Model A sedans were not done as fenderless cars. If go you missed my point of what I was asking. I was not trying to say it is not Ok to go fenderless, it just was not a common site... and I wanted to see some early pics of how they were done.

I have pretty much planned out my car in my head. sitting tall, skinny tires all the way around and a small chop.. very much like Grimlocks pic but without the nose job..

[**DONOTDELETE**]

That is a very cool picture Grimlock posted and I believe that same car ran fenders, a shell and no chop in an earlier incarnation.

[RileyRacing]

Will do. I wish I had a website to post the pix of this Deuce for ya. Sounds like what you are looking for.

Jay

[flamedabone]

Aw right, dammit!! I feel I MUST speak up for myself..

I don't give a FLYIN shit if my car is traditional, I'm just worried about droppin a tenth off my 1/4 mile et at the Drags.

Show up at the Drags next year and I'll "traditionaly" WHUP your ass.

Come and get some..-Abone.

[TERPU]

AAAAAMEN!!!!!

[adjustablejohnsons]

I still have every hot rod magazine I have ever owned. This thread really fed my curiosity, so I looked through about 30 of my early "little books." Not only is there a total lack of fenderless sedans, there are hardly any sedans at all. These books are from the mid to late '50s. Now that I think about it, this look is a relatively new trend, but looks so retro. I love the look. A similar trend is the '35 to '38 fenderless, channelled trucks. A great retro look that I really don't remember seeing years ago, but really does it for me now.