Running wiring and hiding it along the frame, body, etc?

[Kevin Lee]

Going to ditch the junkyard setup and start the real wiring soon. How far apart can your clamps be and what's a good way to run wires along the frame rails? Things to keep in mind, etc. Parts of the frame are boxed and parts arent. The brake lines go pretty much every place the wires will need to be...so is it acceptable to run wires along the brake lines and tie them in place? Don't really want to use any type of self adhesive clip either.

[FLAT-TOP BOB]

on my 32 we drilled two holes on the inside of the frame. one under the body and one right by the front crossmember. fished all of the wires for the headlights, blinkers and cooling fan inside the frame. it's hard to do but worth the clean look and the wires are safe in the frame.

[fab32]

You could run your wiring inside some thinwall tubing and clamp it to the frame with adel clamps. That way you can follow the routing of the brake lines and use the same tapped hole for both clamps, just one facing up and the other down (or side by side if your mounting on the flange of the frame.

Frank

[Detonator]

FLAT-TOP -- I've been thinking about doing the same thing. How big a hole did you drill? And what did you use for a "snake" to hook your wires to when you pulled 'em through? Did you use some kind of grommet at the holes to keep the wires from chaffing?

[willowbilly3]

On all my trailers I always use those cheap spring like tubing benders where the wires run into the fram, Jusr thread the big end into the hole and leave about half sticking out. I like the idea of putting it into tubing and clamping it to the frame.

[tredboy]

i've always been the type to hide wires [inside of the frame], really clean look, BUT i think fab32 has a great idea(?) perhaps run a second set of 'brake lines', tubing with the wires hidden inside of them...

a lot more work and not as 'clean' a look, but very slick.

hmmm...

[fab32]

tredboy, it actually isn't a bunch of work, just bend up the tubing to run parallel to the brake lines. Also it is usually best to use 3/8" brake line so you have enough room for the wires. This prevents the possibility of a wire getting shorted out inside the frame (although this is a remote possibility). Another thing we have done is bend up a piece of thinwall conduit and put it inside the frame before you box it. Just bend the ends out and put them through the boxing plates before you weld them in. Finish the ends by welding them to the boxing plates and finish grinding them. This way you have a clear shot at putting the wires in and an electricians snake will have them installed in short order (run all of the wires at the same time)

Frank

[slammed]

Nice tech tip fab32. More flash? Polish up the line's, clear coat, use stainless fastener's as well. Frame painted black? Nice accent.

[FLAT-TOP BOB]

detonator
it's a 3/4 size hole and yes i did use grommets in both holes. it's been way to long for me to remember what i used to fish the wires through the frame. but if a dummy like me can get it done it can't be to hard.

[KATFISH]

Having done this a few times maybe a few of my sugestions might help.
First dont attatch any wires to brake lines or fuel lines.
The reasons should be obvious.
Tubing is ok if you wrap the wires as a bundle before running them through. Vibration can chafe through the insulation over time .Silicone the end to keep water out.
Clamp securely . the tubing will rattle.
if the frame is boxed run the wires inside a length of heater hose, (it wont rust,bust collect dust,corrode,or explode) Seriously,it works,clamp where you can but even if it just lays in the frame it will last a long time.
Stay clear of exhaust.
Hope this help's

----------------------------
Who is Cooter Brown?

[Bruce Lancaster]

For a '40's-50's look, follow a general pattern like early Ford--this site has many more layouts from different years:
http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/FH_images/FH_electrical-pics/Flathead_Electrical_wirediagram1940car.jpg
I like (current repro) 1941 6 cylinder engine harness and 1940 lamp harness for an early Ford looking starting point--these two harnesses are separate from extraneous stuff enough to make them easy to work from, with additional wires covered with loom stock to look olde. Ford light harness ran inside rail usually, in heavy loom with a push-on clip maybe every 18" as needed. The heater hose would be an EXCELLENT addition. Adel clips were hotrod standard from the end of WWII until the recent triumph of McWiring from the kitcar companies. Real early hotrod wiring would have consisted of the rotten, frayed wiring already in the car modified with bits of cutoff junkyard/extension cord wire held together by friction tape and twisted ends, with no more than 50% of lights actually connected at any one time--emulating a restored Ford system seems to me a good compromise with functionality and fire insurance...
by the late fifties/early sixties, wiring became an art form on the more highly finished rods, with elaborate braid&knot work adapted from aircraft practice and wires fanned out just so from junction blocks. See the Spotlight books on wiring for this stuff!
leave room/extra length for likely modification, as in flathead generator moving from center to either head to allow multi-carbs. Apply serious thought and grommetage whereever wires go through the sheetmetal--that's where serious trouble originates. Add an inconspicuous ground haness to gen-reg-light buckets-distrib body, and have battery grounded solidly to starter/block, body, and frame. Lights will really need grounds on a rod because they are connected by multiple pieces and painted joints. Find a supply of starwashers to enhance ground connections.

[Slag Kustom]

a good trick to snake wires threw a boxed frame is
drill both holes tape up any other holes. get some light string. tie a knot on the end put a piece of tape with big flat areas. shove the legnth of string + 3 inches in the whole. take your blow gun and blow air in the whole to get taped end near the other hole. tape up first hole. get vacum out and put on second hole to pull the taped end out of the frame. pull wires and your done.

[Bruce Lancaster]

Terminals: It is VERY difficult to find terminals other than the red-yellow-blue K-Mart looking ones, which have NO place on a finished car IMHO! Well, maybe on authentic restorations of 1970's street rods...
I'm currently building a small harness with some of these awful looking things due to time/sloth factors, and think that generous use of heatshrink to either cover or replace the plastic will be reasonably close to old rubber insulated terminals in appearance, perhaps with a bit of black magic marker to obliterate any color that sticks out...
Painless makes a deluxe line (that is, better than their kits) of high quality terminals without gaudy colors, but I haven't actually gotten hold of any to check them out. They also have some sort of sealant within the sleeve area.
For a car not trying to look period, the GM plastic tubing with its snap together couplings, available by the bucket at your friendly junkyard for free, is functionally excellent. I would use it on any rewireing on a car for year-round foul weather driveng. A single dead Cadillac will supply enough of the tubing and connectors to rewire ten early Fords. Excellent but unspeakably wrong for an early roadster...

[KCsledz]

I never thought of KATFISH's idea of heaterhose throught the frame rails that would be a great way to make any wiring disappear. And all I was thinking was some sort of mounts and heatshrink to hold the wires together ran along the frame.

[Kevin Lee]

I like the tubing idea. The wiring doesn't really need to be hidden...just secure and not rediculously ugly. I think I can get away with using several short lengths of brake line or other small tubing tacked right to the frame. I'll flare each end to keep from wrecking the insulation. And I've got quite a stock of heat shrink tubing to cover up the plastic parts.

[Bass]

Regarding terminals: When I can't find the right (solder-type) terminal at the electronics supply, I take the red/blue/yellow plastic ends off of the generic terminals, crimp them and solder them...then cover with appropriate sized heat shrink tubing.

The colored plastic covers come off easily with a pair of snips...just use a little care not to cut the metal inside. It really doesn't take all that much more time, and looks alot more professional...The soldering adds strength as well.

[dvlscoupe]

I ran all of my wires and air line on the inside of the car next to the trans hump. it's actually very clean and doesn't show when I had the carpet in it.

[DrJ]

[ QUOTE ]
...I think I can get away with using several short lengths of brake line or other small tubing tacked right to the frame. ...

[/ QUOTE ]

Heat expansion/contraction and vibration may crack the weld or split the tube near it.
That's why they (tube/pipes) are usually clipped to the frame loose enough to move somewhat with a coil/loop or "S" bend in them somewhere so when they change length they don't stress their joints.

[Kevin Lee]

I gotcha. But I'm thinking half a dozen pieces of 3/8 or 7/16 tubing cut down to no more than 3 or 4 inches each. Space these along the frame rail 12 to 18 inches apart. If it gets wet it should dry out quickly and no one piece will be long enough to vibrate and crack. Pretty much impossible to get a drill into some of the places I'll need to be - the car is practially done - but I can reach in with the welder, tack it in place no problem. I'll just follow up with a squirt of paint after it cools and before I run the wires.

[DrJ]

[ QUOTE ]
I gotcha. But I'm thinking half a dozen pieces of 3/8 or 7/16 tubing cut down to no more than 3 or 4 inches each. Space these along the frame rail 12 to 18 inches apart. If it gets wet it should dry out quickly and no one piece will be long enough to vibrate and crack. Pretty much impossible to get a drill into some of the places I'll need to be - the car is practially done - but I can reach in with the welder, tack it in place no problem. I'll just follow up with a squirt of paint after it cools and before I run the wires.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, That's a color of a different horse from what I was picturing and it sounds like a great idea...
Can I borrow it?
Take pictures please! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Slag Kustom]

i think a full length tube would look better then alot of small ones. just my .02

[banzaitoyota]

I wrap my engine harnesses in this:

http://www.rotaryinnovation.com/new_products[1].htm


I get my terminals from Aircraft supply houses

[KCsledz]

[ QUOTE ]
I wrap my engine harnesses in this:

.htm]http://www.rotaryinnovation.com/new_products[1].htm (http://www.rotaryinnovation.com/new_products[1)


I get my terminals from Aircraft supply houses

[/ QUOTE ]

Self fuseing huh? Thats something I hae to write down in the hot rod idea book for when I need it next!