4 cylinderhot rodrods Maybe one for the UK HAMBERS

[burtrido]

Don't ask why this question is being asked. But what ohv 4pots if any are generally being used cause the best I could came up with without going high tech was a cosworth headed ford (escort, cortina) definatly no jap turbos or EFI. I've always had V8's, so I don't know shit about 4 cylinder motors. Inquiring minds need to know.

[Phil1934]

Most are Chevy II based, the old 153 CID which was also offered as 181 CID by Mercruiser. I think this one also came with a cross flow head. Then there is the 151 CID Iron Duke offered later. Some are pushing the newer Olds quad 4, such as www.quad4rods.com (http://www.quad4rods.com) This engine had some head gasket problems, though. It is nice looking. I would not consider the Japanese offerings as you are stuck with their integral bellhousing transmissions which place the shifter way back for an early car. I think the old 194 CID slant 4 Pontiac Tempest engine would make a nice one, especially iof you could find the Sprint 4 bbl version.

[burtrido]

Thanks Phil, but unfortunatly most in not all 4 cyls. over here came from Uk/Europe or Japan. I checked out that link, looks like a cool little motor. What's the average horse power for something like with some wake up stuff done ???

[cornfieldrodder]

Which engine are you interested in? The Chev, Quad or Poncho?

[Tman]

To put it into perspective, Tom at the HAMB drags runs a little 2.3 Ford in his roadster, it smoked all the flattys it ran against. Most of these little 4 poppers will put out more horse in stock form than a mildly hopped up flatty. I picked up a Pncho Iron Duke with crossflow head a few years back. The guy that had it has a 27 roadster with ModelA fenders and a Mercruiser with a crossflow head. Little thing moves pretty good.

[LIMEY]

The most common 4 cyl used over here is the Pinto, which came in 1.6 1.8 & 2ltr ohc versions, there is a US 2.3 Pinto but although it looks simular its not, or the crossflow 1.3 & 1.6 as found in mk1 & early mk2 Escorts.

[Unkl Ian]

Availability influences consumption.Use what you can get locally.

[pikesan99]

Don't look now, but is the "pinto" motor gaining ground?

I'm building one now for my 27 modified. Parts are fairly cheap and very available because of Ministock racing.

Check out:
Racer Walsh
Esslinger Engineering
Race Engineering

for parts and goodies.

[burtrido]

Probably looking more so towards Ford. From what I understand most of of Ford 4 poppers we got here were either 1.6ltr. 1.8ltr. or 2ltr.maybe even a 1.2ltr. came from escorts or cortinas or some early capris and thats about where my knowledge of this stuff stops. Any GM shit we got here was ISUSU so that don't count.Thanks guys!!

[Dirty Dug]

I have the 2000cc Pinto motor in my '27 trackroadster and it's great. There's plenty of speed equipment available for them because they're run in ministocks. It's easily as fast as a flathead but won't keep up with a small block. They say you can get 250HP out of them easily. Speed isn't everything.

[brjnelson]

I am a Ford man, but my wife's car has a MGB engine, I beat the snot out of it and it hangs in there. There must be 1800's downunder, in the US there are many hopo parts, Moss Motors even has a blower that I have her approval to get for next year. A cross flow head is also a good way to go.
I have heard of a Europe Ford Escort that has a Cosworth engine that has run well on the rally's, is that the engine that you were thinking about? If so go with Ford.

http://home.att.net/~brjnelson/wsb/html/view.cgi-photo.html--SiteID-383500.html

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I don't think you could go past one of these if you want a four banger in a rod.
http://members.optusnet.com.au/bcalv/09.jpg
It's a 2 liter Alfa Romeo.

On the plus side http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Started production in 1954 so some early hotrod cred there.
Plenty of rusty alfas around so they're cheap and plentiful.
Twin o'head cams
135hp standard and up to 200hp modified.
All alloy with a lovely finned sump.
Long stroke so plenty of low end torque.
Rev real hard.
Sodium cooled exhaust valves.
Hemispherical combustion chambers.
Side draft carbs.
Forged and Nitrided crank.
If you squint it they look like an offy.
Not Jap!!

On the minus side http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Oil leaks.
Noisy valve operation.
Some parts can be expensive but still way cheaper than Jap tho.
Alfa has a bad rep here in Oz.
Plugs foul up easy if not driven hard (don't know if this is really a minus tho)
Valve lash can be a pain to set up.
Gearbox is strong but shift is real lousy.
It's Italian!!

The twin cam Fiat may also be worth a look.

Brett.

[burtrido]

Bcal thats a cool little car you got there! But I have spent a fair bit of time behind the wheel of an Alpha and could not stand the wishy woshy feel of the gearbox. But the motor was probably one most long lived 4cylinder motors I ever had the pleasure of thrashing to death(it would rev for ever), stupid thing was it seemed to enjoy it as much as I did. I didn't even think of Italian stuff thanks.

[Christian]

I'm looking out for a Fiat or Lancia twin cam for my next project, same engine but Lancias are fwd and need the fiat gearbox, look sexactly like the Alfa pictures, 2 litre, nice in stock form but loadsa hopup goodies available as this was an engine used a lot in rallye racing

[McGrath]

If you could get one, a Quad4 would be the way to go. Isn't your Holden affiliated with GM? I would have thought they would use the Quad4 in something over there.

I had an '82 Mustang GT 5.0 in Highschool and a Buddy had a Beretta with a quad4. The Beretta stomped my ass several times, mainly because I had a severe traction problem, but even so the once it hooked up I couldn't catch him in a 1/4 mile....

[Rocky]

I've never been much of a 4 banger man but I'm changing my mind of late... I got a good deal on an '85 Porsche 944, non turbo with the 2.5 litre engine. The Bosche injection is ugly but I believe it could be modified to look ok and it came with a very good, close ratio 5 speed gearbox. Most everything is aluminum including the rear axle center section....even has a whippy finned aluminum cover on the back. I can't wait for this car to rust or wear out so I can relegate it to donor-car status. I think it'd be too cool for a lakes modified project.
Not sure how many HP the 2.5 is but after 4,000 rpm, it pulls like a bitch to 6 grand.

[Stovebolt]

Gene you're turning into a girl. Now go out and get that poly that we spoke of.

If you want to run less cylinders - try a grey with a repco head, or if a 4 takes your fancy - An 18RG toyota with a Yamaha head. good for 200 HP +, and I got a toyota 3 speed gearbox that bolts up to a torque tube as well, so you can have a traditional "Jap" hot Lod!!!LOL

[marq]

Your all forgetting about Vauxhall,i work for them and have owned many and thrashed the shit out of them.The very best engine to go for would of course be the hrs chevette if you can get one 2.3cc go like stink and won many rally's.The next best bet would be something out of a vauxhall ferenza or a magnum also 2.3 and bloody quick also webbers will bolt straight on and there a still a fair amount of tuning parts available.If you put and advert on the English nsra site i'm sure someone could sort you out with a good engine and box for next to nothing,not only that these engines are pretty bullet proof and give good mpg about 35mpg to be precise.............Mad Marq

[Unkl Ian]

The Fiat motor is basically a mirror image of the Alfa,the intake is on the left,the exhaust on the right.Probably easier,and cheaper,to get a running Jap motor and 5 speed.

[Phil1934]

If leaning towards Toyota, get the pickup trans as the shifter is 4" forward of the car model. What about Suzuki? A lot going into home built planes so power to weight must be good. And then there are the new VW 4's which have good power.

[InjectorTim]

I like 4 bangers in lakes modified T's

[modernbeat]

While that 944 eventually had a 3 liter engine, you guys are forgetting about the BIG four cylinder engines. The BOAT engines.

Mercruiser made a 3 liter engine that is easily converted to street use and they made a huge 3.7 liter that looks a little tough to change over, but I've seen two in modifieds.

3.7 liters! That's 224 cubic inches! 56 inches per cylinder! And they came stock with up to 200 hp.

[porknbeaner]

The cast iron 4 cylinder ((2.8)or is it (2.5) hell I can't remember and its too far to the shed), from an S-10 is becomming popular. Lotsa speed parts available because the pony stock guys run 'em. cross flow head, tri-y header, gear drive stock from the factory.

You can get 'em stock injected or carbuerated. Or it's easy to build your own intake and run a pair of side drafts. SU carbs look cool and work well with this little motor.

if it don't make ya dirty it aint yours http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Drewfus]

Everyone has prefferences, I'd love one of the duke motors,or even a B banger with a 'Rutherford head' etc, but like most people I've gone against my 'traditional prefferences', and used 'what I had' availible.
In this case I've gone out of my way to upset a few people, so I'll teporarily be running a 18-RGE with the yamamha alloy head (crossflow with a twin cam setup), mated to a Celica 5 speed (exactly the same motor as what Ian Cameron used in that Cyan coloured T bucket he made a few years ago).
Will be modified, and made to look 'ol timey, but it fit's beautifully into my 28 R/P/U.

Again, what's availible generally dictates ones choice, in my case this will do until the 8BA becomes a reality.

Cheers,

Drewfus http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Drewfus]

Think blower, twin v belts, and twin strombergs...

[**DONOTDELETE**]

The reason that the Alfa, Fiat, Jag, Offy etc,etc are all so similar is because they were all derivatives of 20s and 30s race engines, which in turn were derived from the original Peugeot twin cam of 1913. Here’s a link to a site that can explain this better than I can.
twin cams (http://www.europeancarweb.com/features/0209ec_twincam/)

I agree that as far as shift feel goes the Alfa gearbox is nothing but shite. Also second gear syncro is considered a consumable item to be replaced at about the same frequency as the cars rear tyres. (ie: the faster you chew out the rear tyres then the faster you’ll chew out 2nd syncro!!!).
I’ve got the rear transaxle in my rod which has an even worse shift feel due to the length of the shift linkage and drive train inertia.
Hadfield and Dellow both made bellhousings to bolt either the early Alfa or Jap boxes behind Holden sixes etc. Surely then a bit of reverse engineering can be done to bolt a Tojo five speed behind the Alfa. I know it’s Jap but the buggers do know how to make a nice shifting bag of gears.

Unfortunately we never got the Olds Quad 4 here in Oz. Holden (GM) offered us a cut down version of their six instead. Not a bad motor really but it did need a lot of mods to get it to pull the skin of ya custard. Then there was the 1.8 Camira, but the less said about these the better. I believe that the current 4 cylinder they’re producing is based on the pommy Vauxhall twin cam. But then they’re FWD, EFI etc etc.

You could import the Olds but that would be rather expensive for “just” a four banger and parts would be a problem.

I mentioned the Fiat earlier because IMO they are a better engine and gearbox than the Alfa. They have similar characteristics like good low end torque and high top end revs but they are much quieter because they use a belt drive for the cams instead of a chain. Also the gearbox has a much quicker shift.

I you want to see more pics of my rod drop in at the Benchracing forum at Hot-Rod.com.au . There’s also a similar thread running there about 4 bangers for Oz rods.

Brett.

[Steve Ray]

[ QUOTE ]

I agree that as far as shift feel goes the Alfa gearbox is nothing but shite. Also second gear syncro is considered a consumable item to be replaced at about the same frequency as the cars rear tyres. (ie: the faster you chew out the rear tyres then the faster you’ll chew out 2nd syncro!!!).

[/ QUOTE ]

As a long time Alfa owner I have to defend their gearbox. Alfa has made their box since the late 1950s but only since the early seventies has it gained a reputation for lousy shifting. The reason is the WRONG LUBRICANT. The GL5 oil with EP additive is too slippery and the result is you can beat the synchro to second unless you granny-shift it.

I switched to a Red Line 75W90NS designed for early gearboxes and I never crunched second gear again. You can also use a regular GL4 type mineral oil. Alfa specified Shell Dentax for the 750, 101, and 105 series cars until the 1970s when the modern EP-additive oils were specified because Alfa thought they were "better". That's when the problems seemed to have started.

[burtrido]

Thanks guys. This has turned into a pretty informative post for me.
Mark, don't fear about my gender. There is a lot of reasons why I've asked about the 4 poppers. The main one being economics. Registration for example. I already have 2 V8's on the road, if the A model goes v8 and with Maria's Royal and scoot that"s over $3500 in rego alone. Yeh yeh I should cut down on my car habit but that's not going to happen.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Thanx for the tip Steve.
I've always thought this was a perennial problem that had been plaguing them for years. Maybe Alfa changed their gearbox oil spec for the transaxle, which was released with the Alfetta in 75. I'll try the Alfa BB one day and see what the brains trust there reckons.

I've been running GL5 in the transaxle in my rod for about 2 years now without any problems but then again I do wait at least one heart beat on the way up and double shuffle on the way down. I might try the switch to GL4 or 70W 90NS and see how that goes.

One way I've heard guys "cure" this problem is to lighten the gears by drilling holes in them.
Way too expensive a fix for most tho.
But it does beg the question.
Why didn't Alfa do this as standard? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[Stovebolt]

Gene, now that your chain is a bit longer........


Catch up soon