JB WELD / CRAPPY 97'S-THE STORY CONTINUES......JEEEEZZZ!

[Jeff Norwell]

Well,.the JB weld held great....the 2 pinholes were sealed and and left to set for a full 24 hrs..these carbs just rebuilt and I spoke to the fella who did the job and he was fine with the JB application......should be good huh?...TRIED to fire the engine....would only start to run(really ruff) with the choke wide open.....close the choke and it would die.....this happened over and over again......thought I might have a vacuum leak, snugged up the base nuts and checked the single vacuum hose...no cracks,splits or wear.......screw it.....after 2 days I fired it and threw it into gear......kept the choke wide and eased into first gear.......the new neighboors heard me coming for miles.....back firing and sputtering down the country road.....this bitch does not have me yet......hit second and keep it wide..easying off the choke......finally it seems to be running on the carbs....but still way to rich.....starting to backfire....BANG!.. it died......Aww crap......about mile and a half away......check the fuel....maybe its bad?......I see water around the base of the center carb...not alot..but moisture.-not gas....aww crap!!.....I go to start the car....no way...choke on/or off.....this thing was like a mule......stubborn.....Walk back home...get fresh premium......add the juice(this is an hour later)......try to start the car........
gas starts flooding out of the acc. on the top of the bowl http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif
Now I am getting f**king pissed.......could it be dirt....a shitty rebuild.......crap......I have tried everything............I am getting to the end of my rope.....**@$*%^$*!@&^^&@&?????
On the good side..the tranny transplant and rear gears are working flawlessly......
I need the 97 guru's out there........pleeze


I had to rant.

[Ryan]

stuck float maybe?

[Jeff Norwell]

Yea maybe....I guess I gotta haul off the center and bring it back to the carb rebuilder.....I am just getting so pissed off!!....And maybe I should throw in the towel on the 97's..I have a set of 3-bolt rochesters.....but I heard rumors that they have about the same reliabitly as 97's(3-bolt.not 4)
As for intake options...241 red rams have the standard 2-barrel stock(yechh!) intake and the offy 3 deuce intake I own......no 4 barrel intake for the smaller red rams.....I do have a Edmunds twin pot intake......I dunno.....new linkage,new lines...more money......same story.....
.I should of collected stamps....would have been a hell of lot cheaper http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif
...thanks for the input Ryan.

[Jeff Norwell]

Anybody else?.....BTTT

[47lincsled]

It sounds like there is a plugged metering hole,if the float was stuck it wouldn't get gas even with the choke closed.Take it back to the rebuilder or better yet make him come to you.

[Psychobilly Boi]

Hey Brush,

My uneducated opinion. sell those 97's and use the Rochesters. I've heard good things about them especially in a 2x2 setup as compared to 97's/94's. You could always get a 3 to 4 whole converter and use the later 2Gs???

Danny

[Jeff Norwell]

Thanks fellas......my blood pressure is slowly lowering.... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Dirty2]

hey I tried the 97's didnt work put on 94's everything ok now !!! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Jeff Norwell]

Take it back to the rebuilder or better yet make him come to you.

[/ QUOTE ]









...Yea,,see this what is getting me so GODDAMN PISSED......I spent $500 plus to get these 3 P.OS. and they should bolt on and run......christ!!!!!!nothing but problems!!!!!!!!
I am trying to be the gentile Kanadian......but I am gonna turn into the freak'in boy in the bell tower soon....... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

.....soory...I am ranting again. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Jeff Norwell]

Well I have a box of 94's as well......seems to be starting all over........


.....Ma!!!!....git me the sqirrel gun!!!!!!! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I dont know whether to laff or cry.

[cheaterslick]

OK ~
#1) STOP
#2) SIT
#3) COLD BEER
#4) Read some books about the carbs you have, with good exploded view. Carbs are SIMPLE and more or less operate on the same ideas.
#5) Clear yourself a nice clean space in the bench and carefully dissasemble the fuckers.

There's no "magical mystery" shit in there...just clean it, inspect it, check that all your jets are right for the application! As long as it's not excessivly worn (throttle shafts), it's CLEAN with all the proper gaskets/seals/washers, and it's jetted properly, there's no reason for trouble.
Most importantly don't hate your car/carbs/girfriend/wife/dog/life because of it. Cars should be an escape from BS...maybe wait 'till it's running right before going for a drive.

[kustombuilder]

save those 94s for me holmes!! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif i'd shove one of those carbs up the guys ass till he gets it right. screw being "gentile" at this point. sometimes you get more results with a shotgun than honey!! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[safariknut]

Jeff:I haven't had a 97 apart in probably 40 years so my memory isn't too good but:If there is a check ball in the bottom of the accelerator pump housing it may be missing OR if you're running an unregulated electric fuel pump you may be blowing the needles off the seats with too much fuel pressure.Most carbs are extremely sensitive to excess pressure;no more than 3-4 lbs.Try the clothespin on the fuel line trick:clip a spring clothespin on the fuel line right where it goes into the float bowl(assuming of course that you don't have steel fuel lines).Usually does the trick.Hope it works out for ya buddy.
Ray

[Smokin Joe]

Sounds like you've got water in your gas or too much pressure. I don't like the doesn't smell like gas comment. You running a fuel regulator & guage? Set it at 2 1/2 pounds and see if that does it. Anything over three pounds is too much.

If all 3 carbs are rebuilt the same, swap the center one for one of the end ones and plug the end ones. Disconnect the linkage to them and put a chunk of gasket material under them to plug the intake. Get it running on the center one, then work on hooking up the other 2. You are running progressive linkage right?

[Hellbilly_Buzzard]

- If your float stuck close - no fuel

- If your float stuck open or sank you would gave a fuel spraying out where the accelerator pump is.

- What is the fuel pressure you are running to the carbs. Anything more than 3 psi is bad. Too high a fuel pressure can pin the floats open acting like a sunk float.

- Jet size. .045 is standard jet size and one carb with those jets can run my 324. Are you running a two deuce with a straight linkage. That can dump a lot of fuel. Might need to jet down.

- Make sure all those little gaskets are there. Vintage Speed (I know some people hate that company) has a nice free breakdown of the 97's you can download.

It's a joke on how easy it is to rebuild 97's. All you need is that $20 jet wrench and you are good to go. It's a racket how much people charge to rebuild them. Keep that wrench on you at all times, it works great to plug a fuel line with a bad float. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Your problem sounds similar to what I have experienced in the past and it is usually done to a sunk float. Was there gas all over your intake manifold. Those bitchy little are horrible about taking in fuel. I really want a set of those cool plastic floats when they come for sale.

[Jeff Norwell]

Yep..there was fuel all over the intake ,all over the engine and all over the street....it was pissing out the top of the bowl/acc. pump?(I dont know if this is the right terminolgy)..yes,I have a holley electric fuel pump....and she buzz's pretty loud,but I do have a fuel reg. just before the fuel log.It is set for 1 and a half pounds....just one of those Mr Gasket jobs.Maybe the pump is too powerful?....yes there is steel lines,feeding into the fuel log and then aft..running into each carb........mmnnn http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
I cant run the front or rear carb in the center....there is no provision for vacuum...only on the center..... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
yes, I am running progressive linkage

[safariknut]

Jeff:It definitely sounds like excessive fuel pressure.I'd tie in a reliable pressure gauge after the regulator and see what it's REALLY putting out.
Ray

[Jeff Norwell]

Ray..I think that is a good idea.I first bought one of those Mr.Gasket crappy reg. and it never worked...completly block from the factory,got a new one from the local speed shop(free exchange) and I really do not trust it.....any recommendations.....maybe a moon or something similar?

[Smokin Joe]

That pump shouldn't run much if that regulator is working. I know several guys who are running that round Mr. Gasket regulator with no problems, but they all have a guage inline after it. Set the reg by the guage, not by the marks on the regulator.

[Bass]

If it were mine, I'd toss the POS Mr. Gasket regulator. I've heard nothing but bad things about them. Replace it with a Holley like this:

Fuel Pressure Regulator (http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=HLY-12-804&N=120%20300725)

You'll need a gauge to set the pressure, but if you're going to run 97's, it's a good idea to have one anyway.

Do you have a fuel pressure gauge now? If so, what's it reading?

Aside from that, I'd go with these guys' suggestions and check the float.

[Jeff Norwell]

O.K Joe...I will get a reg.......any brand in particular.......I kinda feel that the pump maybe the culprit..among other things.....just a strange feeling....


.by the way......MANY,MANY THANKS to those who have responded
Jeff

[Jeff Norwell]

Thanks Bass.

[Bass]

No problem, Jeff. I'm running one of the Holley's on my new SBC. You can use one of the outlets to put a gauge directly on the regulator...looks kinda cool:

[randy]

THROW THAT MR. GASKET piece of SHIT AWAY!

I think you've already decided upon that though...

Good luck.

-r

[Hellbilly_Buzzard]

Next I would take out the float, just to make sure that there is no fuel in there.

- If there is no fuel in the float then you have a fuel pressure problem.

- If there is fuel in the float, welcome to the Stromberg 97 club!!! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Hellbilly_Buzzard]

I have a holley 3 psi regulator that i bought from Jegs. The same one Bass is running. Works great.

[Jeff Norwell]

Hey ANdy..thanks for calling today....you made me feel alot better..here is the a pic of my dreaded mistress..... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[Jeff Norwell]

...my nemisis.......

[Jeff Norwell]

...my savoir.....awaiting til more franklins are available....
thanks for everyones input

[Hellbilly_Buzzard]

Just wait until it gets cold and you have to retune them http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

[Jeff Norwell]

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Jeff Norwell]

..and no...I did not mess with them today...had to work.....Just thinking about those carbs grts me mad http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Hellbilly_Buzzard]

[ QUOTE ]
..and no...I did not mess with them today...had to work.....Just thinking about those carbs grts me mad http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

you will have of those days in the future too.

Just an FYI, make sure you park in flat areas also.

[delaware george]

i wish i had so many carbs on so many hemis to be bummed out about http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[SimonSez]

A couple of thoughts for when you have the fuel pressure sorted ...

Is the only difference between the centre carb and the end carbs the vacuum port for the distibutor ?

If it is, then you should be able to run the outboard carbs in the centre position by plugging the vacuum line to the distributor ?

Then take the end carbs off and putting a block off plate on the manifold and see what happens with just the centre carb.

The I would put each of the end carbs on the centre position in turn and see how they run.


It's a bit hard to see from the photos, but this assumes that your intake has a common plenum chamber. If it doesn't then the above tests won't work. And for that matter, your progressive linkage won't work either !