Who's running a 2x4 setup? I need advice...

[buzzard]

I'm considering switching carb setups on my coupe. For those that don't know, I have a '31 Coupe with a 327/ 4 speed. The engine has 2.02 heads, roller rockers, with a Comp Cams 274 grind cam. Gross valve lift of 490/490. Right now I run a 3x2 with Holley 94's.

I'm thinking about an Edelbrock Performer 500 dual quad setup. I like the look, reliability, and hopefully performance of the 4x2.

So here's my first questions:

Isn't 1000 CFM way too much for a 327 that maxes at around 6000-6250 RPM?

Will I lose a ton of low end performance?

Who's running a similar setup, what engine/tranny combo, gearing, metering jets, etc.?

Any details or advice is appreciated.

[enjenjo]

They will work fine. I have a pair of 600 Edelbrock carbs on a 454, progressive linkage, most of the time you are only running on two barrels. When you do open the throttle, with the air valve in the secondarys, it won't open the secondarys until it is needed, and only as much as you need.

[buzzard]

So around town, are you running on just one 2 barrel? I thought you ran on the primaries of both carbs.

[SimonSez]

Hot Rod did a dyno-test a couple of years ago of various multi-carb intakes, including dual-quads.

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/60638/index5.html

[enjenjo]

Around town, I am running on the primaries of the rear carb, closest to the center of the manifold. the primaries of the second carb come in at about 1/2 throttle, and all 8 are open at full throttle. This setup returns about 15 MPG on a trip with a 3.50 gear.

[buzzard]

Are you using an Edelbrock manifold? Any suggestions for improvement there? I have 3.55's and 15 MPG sounds good!

Thanks for the link SimonSez, that's an iteresting little article.

[Paul]

I love dual quads,

and have gotten decent performance out of the Edelbrock stuff.

with a mild, or smaller motor the progressive linkage should be a good choice too.

must say, though, in my book 4x2 does mean four two barrels..

[FLAT-TOP BOB]

buzz

what mileage do you get now with the 3x2's?

[buzzard]

[ QUOTE ]
must say, though, in my book 4x2 does mean four two barrels..


[/ QUOTE ]

60's....You are exactly right. Typo on my part. I changed it in the subject.

Bob.... Don't have an odometer, but I know the milage ain't great. Not really my main concern, though.

[enjenjo]

I have a Wiand intake.Rectangular port

[Glen]

I ran this on my roadster, it ran great and is still running in the hands of the new owner. The only complaint, after long freeway drives in chilly temperatures the intake would get cold and after exiting the freeway it would run as if it was just started on a cold morning. The fuel would not atomize properly.

Those are 450's and those 4x2 setups come with tiny little jets. 577's

[Bass]

Buzz, Big Ric is running the set-up you are describing on the 327 in his '40. I know you've seen it run at the drags, and I can tell you that it runs awesome all the way from just off idle to the upper RPM range. It really comes into its own as it spins up, but the bottom end doesn't seem to be affected much either. The sucker just plain runs GOOD.

He is running straight linkage...he told me that he tried running the carbs progressive, but it didn't seem to make much difference. As far as fuel economy goes, I believe he was getting 15-16 mpg. on our trip to Bonneville last year. And that's going 90 mph on shitty 91 octane.'

I'm sure you can PM Big Ric if you need specifics.

I also have to say that the 1000 cfm is a little misleading, as the engine is only going to suck down what it needs. With the heads and cam you're running I wouldn't be too concerned about being over-carbureted.

[buzzard]

Thanks Bass. I'll PM Ric with this link. I knew that he ran this setup. It's one of the reasons it seems so appealing to me. I know that car runs good, so there's no need reinventing the wheel. I'm know rocket genius over here, I'll just listen to the guys that know what's what.

[stangzilla]

man im going to need another carb on my a so i can fit in down at the track this year http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Slag Kustom]

for more street use you would be better off with a pair of 390 cfm holleys

[TagMan]

[ QUOTE ]
Around town, I am running on the primaries of the rear carb, closest to the center of the manifold. the primaries of the second carb come in at about 1/2 throttle, and all 8 are open at full throttle. This setup returns about 15 MPG on a trip with a 3.50 gear.

[/ QUOTE ]

Won't that result in a leaner mixture for the front cylinders causing eventual valve burning?? Dunno - just asking as I don't have a lot of experience with multi-carb set-ups, but have been told that it would.

[CheatersPete]

[ QUOTE ]
for more street use you would be better off with a pair of 390 cfm holleys

[/ QUOTE ]

exactly, in my 440 TNT, i was driving 2 holley 390cfm vacum secondaries, much better fuel economy and good power!.
http://www.thecheatersgang.com/images/siteweb/440finis.jpg

[zman]

I prefer to use either the Edelbrocks or Catrers. Two 500's seem to be fine on a small block....

[Roothawg]

This setup seems to surface about every 20 years. I have been doing some research on em and it seems that the single 4 is more efficient, but doesn't have the look I am after. I am building almost the same motor Buzz.Mine will have quite a bit of lift but a very short duration. I have been toying with the idea of making it a hyd roller conversion. I could do that with the money saved from the 2-4 setup. What to do.... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[buzzard]

Thanks for the input, guys. The Edelbrocks seem a lot easier to tune and make changes over the Holleys. Remember, I'm doing this partly because I am tired of always messing with the 3 Holleys.

Root, what engine are you talkig about? In the Gasser?

[Roothawg]

Nah, in my 36 p/u.

[buzzard]

Ahhh, that makes more sense.

[Roothawg]

It's a motor I blew up back in high school. I just hate to get rid of it. I need to round up a good crank for it. I have my old 461's laying around and a nice little Engle solid cam from my youth. (If I decide nada on the roller)

[cabriolethiboy]

I am running two 500's, an old Weiand intake, on a 406 SB. I also have TrickFlow alum heads(2.02-1.60). The cam selection is critical. I am running a Comp Cams hydraulic 4X4 hi-torque cam. I have also run a Crower hydraulic 502/504 245 @.050, LT1 350-330 HP solid lifter cam, 30-30 Duntov Solid lifter cam. All except the Comp Cam Hi-torque had too much overlap and made the motor real hard to drive around town. You are trying to run two idle circuts so you need a lot of vacuum. With a lot of overlap you lose the vacuum. If I can remember right the Comp Cam has .462-.480 lift, 218-226 dur. @ .050. If I had it to do over I would go to the next step up for the cam and run Rhodes lifters(I love the sound). By the way the motor is in a hiboy(2350 lbs.) 4 spd. 333 rear gears. Feels like a big block around town and gets over 20 mpg on the road. An over drive trans should make it even better. I miss the lumpy idle though.

[enjenjo]

[ QUOTE ]


Won't that result in a leaner mixture for the front cylinders causing eventual valve burning?? Dunno - just asking as I don't have a lot of experience with multi-carb set-ups, but have been told that it would.

[/ QUOTE ]

So far that engine has been running that way for over 30,000 miles for the last 10 years, and everything is fine up to this point.

[Bass]

[ QUOTE ]
If I had it to do over I would go to the next step up for the cam and run Rhodes lifters(I love the sound).

[/ QUOTE ]

Cabriolethiboy, I think you are on the right track with the Rhoads lifters. They help to build the vacuum at low RPM, and basically make the cam 'think' it's smaller than it actually is until about 3000 rpm. All of that adds up to better streetability. The "solid lifter" sound is of course an added benefit.

http://www.rhoadslifters.com/why.asp

I'm building a small block right now with Rhoads lifters, a big Lunati cam, 2 500cfm AFBs on a high rise Offy 2x4, and the same heads (TrickFlow). I won't have as many cubes as your 406, but it should still be plenty stout...and I'm backing it with a Muncie 4spd as well. I'll let you know how it works out.

By the way, which Weiand manifold are you using? Low-rise?

[John Copeland]

I run two #1404, 500 CFM Edelbrock Performers, they run excellent all the way from idle to peak RPM. I have a 40 Ford Coupe, 2000 stall Hole Shot Converter, 3:55 posi 8" Ford, comp cams cam, Edelbrock RPM Performer heads, flat top pistoms, roller rockers, etc. Mallory mechanical dist with 14 degrees of initial and 34 degrees of total timing. Just got back from Louisville from Columbus, Ohio, runs great and is a lot of fun, looks killer, but don't let anyone tell you it doesn't eat gas. I'm running progressive linkage. I use an Edelbrock dual plane intake and built a pair of 1" heat spacers, it eliminated the gas boiling in the carbs.............also the Edelbrock 2X4 will not except the small Holleys, only AFBs.

john

[AHotRod]

BUZ:
I've got a Edelbrock intake with a pair of Carter 500 CFM AFB carbs, with a progressive linkage in my A-coupe for 5 years, runs great.

[buzzard]

Has anybody purchased the "kit" from Speedway. I talked to 2 guys on the phone today, and neither one could explain why the kit costs more than the individual carbs, manifold, linkage, and fuel lines.

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/xq/asp/strBase_List./hilt./source.2192/base_no.92519906/str_base_no.91085108%2C91303801%2C91611040%2C92511 905%2C92519906%2C/header_title./page_name.prod%5Flist%5Fdisplay%2Easp/search_type.L2%7E404/search_option./deptsearch./deptSearch_id./dept_id./dept_id_p./dept_name./dept_name_p./ShowImages.yes/sq.20/cont.1/intPgNo.2/redirect./qx/product.htm

Speaking of that, does anybody besides Edelbrock make a dual quad specific fuel line? Something without braded hoses?